Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 238: Old School Musky Gear
Podcast Transcript
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Muskie 360 podcast. J bird, are you hungry? Are you salivating propagating?
Jay:
Steve. July 20th does not come quick enough. Steve, Wash it down with some Northwoods Musky Hawg Sauce.
Steven:
I've got the hog sauce coming. We got Freddy's wieners. Also brats. Burgers. There'll be buns for vegetarians if if. If a vegetarian dare show, that would just be hamburger buns. They're not vegan, I promise you that. You know something? Something, you know, bring your bring your own Soylent green. If you ain't making meat. If you ain't taking.
Jay:
And we really are having big specials.
Steven:
Yes, and.
Jay:
That's going to be incredible and a lot of raffles. Steve, I haven't even told you we've been getting a lot of stuff that we've been getting some donations in from some vendors. Yeah, we've got some.
Steven:
Big raffles. Yeah.
Jay:
A lot of packages together to give away, so look forward to.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. That, that, that, you know, big, give it away. Give it away. Give it away. Now you know, get all the get all the interesting stuff you can carry now. It's always fun and I I the list we'll have to do a comprehensive breakdown here in a week or two. Exactly who's going to be there, but pretty much all the all the big players, people, big on the muskie scene, Jay, he's a big. He's a big man on the muskie scene.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know? Whoa.
Jay:
Manufacturers and and reps from big companies, you know, like Shimano and Daiwa. You know the, you know, the rod and reel manufacturers as well, Saint Croix and Okuma, and you name it. They're going to be there.
Jay:
True.
Jay:
Plus the pros you know Joe Bucher Bucher's going to be there, you can talk. To him.
Steven:
Herbie's coming down, we talked the same thing. You know, we got the best. We always have the best of the best. You got the Smitty's you got.
Jay:
Will be OK, yeah.
Steven:
All kinds of funzie, so it'll be cool. Yeah. It's the July 20th. If you're wondering. And there will be. Lots of lucky Jay said, giving away of things. Goodness gracious, there are some new things, Speaking of things, new stuff showed up, and there's a new sale, so the Mepps has just been crazy this year and you know, like, hey, let's do some, let's do some sales, which is rarity for some of these companies. But Mepps has gone hog wild. You've got some of my favorite Bucktails the Mepps, double blade, flashabous, and the single blades. Those are on sale, which is crazy. And then on top of it, you got the Bucher custom. There's some custom paint job showed up. You got a Bucher custom depth Raider in the black Mamba, they call it. That mamba mamba
Jay:
Black Mambo, large in large scale wall on the. Line of two new colors. Came in all the depth raiders, the small, the big, straight jointed shallow Raiders. Same deal joined Shallow Raiders, the straight models and both sizes. So yeah, there's a lot of different models and and those two there, there's more colors in the works, but those just came in this week.
Steven:
Yeah, there's a rip and I like the large sky. I love the black mamba.
Speaker 4
Uh.
Steven:
Mamba, how do you say it? Mamba mom, I'm being an.
Jay:
Idiot. Yeah. I mean, it's not a black bait. It's not completely, you know, midnight. Yeah, but it's, you know, it's probably one of the darkest overall tones in a, you know, we all I mean we both know that, you know, dark grape crank base and dark jerkbaits always have their place.
Steven:
Now let's go black mamba. Hmm. There you go. Very cool, very cool. Even the baby. Get the six inch your, you know, go crazy. Get your black mambas and your large scale walleyes. And now the Mepps sells cool. The new Bucher stuff is cool.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Cool. Anything else here that we're missing? No, it's. You know, it's kind of cool that your seasons already kick and you got some new arrivals showing up to the shop, showing up to the shop. Other than that, Jay, what are you hearing up there? Anything interesting?
Jay:
Fishing's been real good. We came off a lot of cool weather, so a little bit warmer today. But you know, cool all week. So I did talk to one guy that got a 47 Monday, which was a cold front day, you know, on a bucktail. But for the most part, people are throwing bigger baits. They're throwing plastic. Krakens
Steven:
Yeah, guys have been sounding like crazy.
Jay:
Tubes. Bulldogs. Yeah. That type presentation and the cold front conditions, you know, off breaks and and working a little bit deeper and having very good success with that. So you know, we had a lot of days. There were highs in the 50s and low 60s and stuff weird.
Steven:
Get. Wacky. It's wacky, weird, wacky weather. Wacky weather.
Jay:
Yeah, it's.
Steven:
Colder than normal, it feels like in a lot of capacity. It's just like even down here it's not. Not sweltering as it should be. You know, you feel like it should be hotter than heck. And. It is not. It is not. But anyway, that's interesting. I know krieger. He's been rocking out the the Northwoods fishing report. If you're headed up there, you're fishing up there. You can get the the latest and greatest entail. Jay, the news of the day from old Josh Kreger. And. Comprehensive reports from Josh, but you know we talked about new stuff coming in. I thought it would be, Meredith, because it got sent an interesting e-mail. Interesting e-mail, he said. You guys always talk about the new things that are showing up, but you rarely talk about old baits you like. Right. And I went interesting. You know, you're always we're always showcasing the latest and the greatest and just because it's brand new doesn't mean it's worth a damn. You know, it's the the way it goes. So I figured, let's do a rundown of just, I mean, just off the top of our heads here. Jay, some of the cool stuff that's kind of. I don't want to say. It's not like all. What's some of the old school stuff that never sees the light of day like the first thing that pops in my mind like a Gooch's tallywhacker? You know, like something that that doesn't get much play, but I think is a relevant bait. Have you ever caught a fish on a Gooch?
Jay:
Yeah, actually have. Sure. I mean, yeah, back in the day, there weren't many tailback choices. It’s Pre-TopRaider, pre Bucher days, you know.
Steven:
You know, I mean. Sure. Ones the worst and you got what? Moldies you got moldies. Is, is that done forever?
Jay:
Yeah, they've been around.
Jay:
Too.
Steven:
The hawg wobbler is the hawg wobbler done.
Jay:
Oh no, they make 4 sizes of that. Ohh, mud puppy? Yeah, he might be. Do we? Don't know. We cannot get ahold of that guy.
Steven:
No mud. You see, I was thinking mud puppy mud puppy. You're you're.
Speaker 4
Well, I don't.
Steven:
Think. I don't think he's a podcast listener, but based on age, if anybody knows the guy that makes makes the mud puppy.
Jay:
Yeah, I think he's an older gentleman. That was in the area, so.
Steven:
Like, yeah, I I would guess.
Jay:
I can't get a hold of them. I'm not sure what's going on with that. That was a very, very subtle action. Tailgate again. Very old, yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, that's what I mean. Not trying to make it all top water, but I mean those are three hawg wobbler mud puppy. Gooches or baits that don't get much play that are kind of cool. I mean I I've always liked. The. The the tally whacker. I don't know. It just it just has its own kind of snaky thing, like the way they assemble them. I don't know if they did them all that way, where it's an actual joint in the middle. I'm looking on the wall. Here there's one. Yeah. You know, it's not a straight wire tail through. And it seems like the back of the bait kind of rides it. If it's choppy a little bit. And it's interesting. It's got an interesting sound. It it doesn't sound like a top Raider. You can tune them. And that's always what I always liked about Gooch's Tallywhacker is, is, you know, if you know how to tune a top water beta, you want to get different sounds out of it. That was cool. The Mud puppy jet. It's been around since. The dawn of time. That's that was the first muskie bait right? Is that the first muskie bait ever made? I'm teasing. Feels like it.
Jay:
Was using that in World War 2. Remember when Tom Hanks visited me at Christmas? Remember that episode?
Steven:
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah, I I would have. That would envision that would be cool. But no, I mean those are two interesting. Those are a couple interesting baits to add to your game. I mean, what other what's the jerk baits I mean? That's one thing. It's.
Jay:
Bobby.
Steven:
Bobbies. You got bobbies, which are cool. I mean, it's it. It's a different a different game. And I mean something that I wouldn't say that it's that it's necessary old school, they still make them, but it doesn't get enough. It doesn't see enough light today and enough people. It's not glitzy and glamorous enough for most people. But if you like catching fish, it's great. Or the Smitty the tracer tails. Yeah, you know, they're little Pac-Man face on. I mean, I mean, they've been making those for eons, but they've got some pretty wicked action, you know, you get them running, right? And it's just like, you know, and I get it. I mean, the guys emails like, hey, you know, it's always new and latest greatest. I mean Tracer tell Bobby, I mean, bobbys, I like Bobby's just because. I mean, I always again dive and rise. I'm always tweaking. But you know, Bobby Bait was pretty susceptible to drilling a hole in it and reweighting and and and you know, getting some different kick out of.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
That was interesting with with Bobby Baits and even the tracer tails that I've thrown. The more I Billy goat them up, the more fish they caught, you know, like banging them into rocks. It seemed like they just did it. If I'm getting some chips on the lips and trying to get that thing kind of roughed up. Ohh God, the same old school stuff that still plays. I mean I'm trying and and now it's making me think some of this stuff. I need to go back to throwing, you know. I mean, Bobby has its place. Fricking. You and I both used to love reef hogs.
Jay:
Yeah, I was just gonna say Bobby's. I mean, I think they've been around for more than 60 years. Yeah. That's pretty incredible reflux. Exactly. Another old school bait. I don't know if any are being made. A lot of people are struggling getting ahold of that guy that's making a mic, but.
Steven:
Witches.
Jay:
Yeah, that was that was the bait back back in.
Speaker
That's.
Jay:
The day I. Mean that was the jerk bait for me.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. Really. I mean, you know, I don't know if this guy's thinking, hey, we just don't look back, but if it's, you know, from a perspective of possibly being, hey, you got some old base. What's still relevant? I mean, reef old. Now the problem with the reef hawg and a lot of these baits. We're talking, I think things get phased out. With with modern tackle too, or not modern tackle, but modern rods and reels, you know where a Bobby or a suick and 9 foot 9 foot six. It's not like you had that 66 right in front of you where you got really good play of the bait. You know that's why I'm going to go for a tighten and go. OK, I'm working on modern equipment it. Does what I want it to do. And the last tuning, what other stuff? I mean reef hawgs. I I I mentioned on podcast previously where I broke out a reef hawg, took one out here at the bait cave and took it on the boat and. I kind of hated that, though. I hate to say that, you know, because I'm trying to get. I think we're so accustomed to glide baits that are like perfect.
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
MHM, MHM.
Steven:
And and the thing about a reef hawg is not perfect. It's like it'll go left 4 feet. The next thing you're trying to get it go to the right and it goes forward 3 feet, right. And then it goes to the right and an inch and a half and then goes left 4 feet.
Jay:
No.
Steven:
It it's not what we are accustomed to, but. I think some of that really goofy action and the imperfections is how you got some of quote UN quote magic baits. You got ones that were just like they did. The thing you know. About you don't hear a lot. Of bags anymore? Where?
Speaker
You have.
Steven:
Like a hellhound. You know, they're they're they're. They're whacking them out of dime and dozen great bait, great parish point. My go to glide bait. Right. There's a blue billion of them been made. You're not going to find massive inconsistencies. You know, I've never. I'm sure it happens, but I I've not bought a Hellhound. Go. Wow. This one is drastically different than the others that I. Right. I've not gotten one where I went or this one. Just flat doesn't run unless the. I mean, with all mass production you get manufacturing errors and I, but I haven't ran into one. It sure it can, but. I think there's a little bit of. We yeah, we used to have quote UN quote magic in some of this stuff. You'd have the the really erratic.
Jay:
We'll take a take a health on for example. I mean, if you take 10 of them over a period of time, especially not say not say in the same mold, the same production you know is the weight is going to be incredibly.
Jay:
Go ahead.
Jay:
Pretty much within 1/10 of an ounce on all of them.
Steven:
Oh yeah, the consistency is huge.
Jay:
Yeah. Now wood baits. Yeah. You know, it's taken 8 inch reef hog for example, which was well actually they made tents too.
Steven:
Yeah, they.
Jay:
Have the 8 inches considered the the big the bigger of the two reef hawgs back back when those were very popular and I mean the way it's going to fluctuate a. Ton on those. Ohh. Good.
Steven:
Wood, they're wood and it's just like, you know, the way you manufacture wood bats genuinely. You just drill the holes in the same place and put the same amount of lead in there and go, I hope.
Jay:
The Buoyancy's close and they're making a cut in the front so that can be off, you know, a few degrees or not cut as much to the left and hence the things going to do some different things than the one before that you threw so. Yeah, but you're absolutely right. And I think a lot of people were probably. Starting to get a little bit saying. I'm just guessing the manufacturers were hearing and it's just like, yeah, the state isn't isn't it doesn't work right. You know, it's it's, you know, it's it's kicking to the left too much. It's like they're expecting the thing to be a perfect live date. Like a hell, yeah. You know, a mantra or something. It's like, that's not what it is.
Steven:
It's. Yeah, it's erratic. Glad when I say that. I'm sure the last time we brought those up, it's like you. You Chuck one and the and like I said, the last time I did, I chucked one in the boat and I like. But there's a. Beauty in that, that's kind of lost, I think. With the old school bats and. Maybe you know, I'm just riffing off the top of my head on that guy's premise, which would be. Maybe that's the throwback for glide bait follows something that's really goofy. It's got the generality of a glide bait, but it's goofy where you know the amount of suicks I have hanging in the baked cave or it's it's vulgar. You know, and that was from my dad buying piles of them every time we went to the muskie shop by as many. It could stick in the car. And then you're looking for the ones that did the thing. Right. So there's some cool things about old school baits, but.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, just in real time we're gabbing here and we we kind of hit on why they're not cool right in from a consistency standpoint. You know where there's magic in some wooden bats, but I would say for every. You know, if I if I were to buy 10 wooden jerk baits, I would get one or two that I was like that's gonna work. You know, I mean as far as like if you if you they will all work, however which ones have the thing that that you know undefinable. Action or like you said, the goofiness which is like and that's not the the the premise of the segment or the conversation, but that's where my brain keeps going back because I'm looking here and talking about baits that were they're not, I don't think they're on the market anymore. So I can pick and what? Was the Hy Finn Skywalker. Remember that Skywalker walk the dog.
Jay:
Walker. That that was their walk. The dog? Yeah, vaguely. The fooler. The Fooler was the jerkbait.
Steven:
Yeah, I mean it's short. Yeah, the fooler is the jerk bait I'm talking about. The hyphen, hyphen, floor. Yeah, just the the OR the Walker or the Skywalker was inconsistent as crap.
Jay:
- It was OK well, alabamas.
Steven:
Yeah, that's what I'm looking. I'm looking. I'm looking at the Amabama is a different thing. That's another cool bet. If you've never seen one, it's check out Amabama, do we?
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Still have do we still have any of?
Jay:
Those I think we got a few from that batch last year, yeah.
Steven:
- That's bill loom. West Virginia boy made AmaBamas and the thing about that bait it was never intended to be a side to side glider. It was more of a pull pause bait, right?
Jay:
Two.
Jay:
You said that once. Yeah, crazy.
Steven:
And I've got him hanging in here. Uh, my my father knew looney and and Crane. Well, we fished with those guys or bill for sure. And that bait was not intended to go left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right. That was kind of like a Prometheus kind of jerk bait. Shallow thing. And. I HIS story goes, you know, as the story was told to me and I'm, you know, heard over time was like he just got so tired of people saying that. He made him walk side to side. Right, so there's.
Jay:
No.
Steven:
A lot of old people like wow. And that wasn't the intent. But you know, obviously it during that time frame was harder to get information out about what's going on there. So that's another cool. But what other stuff lost to time here that.
Jay:
Bob Cobb beats.
Steven:
Well, that's, yeah, that's another West Virginia. We knew Jack. Yeah. Got about 400 of them hanging there in the back, but.
Jay:
Remember those?
Jay:
Cobb.
Steven:
I there there's some of the round nosed gliders. There's a couple Cobb baits that you know everybody sort of when you make a new bait, you're tipping your hat at something like, OK, I like what you did and I've seen a lot of kind of like round front. Glides and pool. Bakes. There's a couple. You know Cobbs, where it wasn't necessarily. Built to be left, right, left, right again, it was pull suspend kick to the side. Suspend. Which is an interesting premise of, you know, here's just the wobble, you know, which is like the magic of a, you know, glide right, left, right, left, right, left, right, with the wobble on the paws, there's some pull pause baits. I've actually got hanging here in the bat cave. We're on the West Virginia tip real quick. I have. What is that about 12 inch crane. Eight prototype glide. That that has a front cut kind of reef hogging and stuff like that. So there's a lot of those baits. But as far as like Cobbs, Cobbs, you being, you could get them, but they're going to have to find those used. What what about the hawg wobbler, Jay, they still making that that's kind of a bait that never gets talked about anymore.
Jay:
Hogwarts goldies.
Steven:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jay:
Yep. Yeah, they still make them. Yeah. 4 sizes. Yep. All four sizes. Yeah. That is a crawling top water bait. You know, it's got a diving lip, right? But it's meant to be retrieved slow on the surface. So if it starts diving on you, you're you're, you know, you're pulling.
Steven:
So all the signs are, yeah. What's what's, what's the breakdown on? Yeah, it's not a crank bait. Yeah.
Jay:
Yep. So that's a kind of a misunderstanding with a few people to try it the. First time because you know. It's pretty plain packaging. I mean, you know, are we supposed to? Know right? You know so.
Steven:
Muskie bait. Yeah, you used to. Yeah. When you buy the older baits, you'd pray that they put some kind of like guideline on there like hey.
Jay:
Same kind of guideline you know.
Steven:
It it it did it just didn't say. Works great on Muskie and Pike, and you're like, what do I do? It's like buying a hammer, you know, and you're like a caveman. What? What, what do I do with this. And is this food? Is this? Is this to shave with you? Don't know what is this tool, dude. Now that was annoying pre Internet. Like what's the best way to work this bait? Well, figure it out yourself. ********. That's how that works. You're just like good luck. You bought it. Now it's yours. Figure it out. What are you going to?
Jay:
What? Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Do what are you. Going to do what are some stuff? That's kind of old. Old but gold and still available. So the hawg wobbler. I'm looking down the walls here. I'll tell you what. Doesn't get any play? Hardly at all. Is the freaking swim whizz. Sure, that has been, yeah, that that has been overshadowed.
Jay:
Best tackle?
Steven:
You know, when we have swim whizz. Yeah, you know, it's.
Jay:
Swing this is that right? It's got the the dual diving clips.
Steven:
So we get the 8 and the six. Well, it you had the versatility, you know and and I'm sitting here, we've got piles of them. I still have a few in the boat. I still will run. A swim whizz aren't not enough, and I say that and I'll tell you some swim Whizz tricks. Let's talk about this. Why? Why won't you shut up and answer questions or talk about something new? Now I got to swim with trick for you. Those baits are wicked crawled. Like as a wake bait. On the shallow setting and you throw that over shallow weeds on fish that are like, really. Rookie, ridiculously good on on the I like the 8 inch for that because they're super buoyant. High rod angle and you creepy girl, that thing is.
Jay:
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Like. Like kind of, just barely under the surface for surface is a killer bait. I'll say two. You can rip them a bit. I mean, this have always been like, you know. Just trolling baits in 99% of people's minds, but they're really good trolling baits, period. I mean, you do have the two different line tie settings here, but that's it. That is something that gets lost. That bait has been lost. I think too much and doesn't get enough love. I'm sure they're rocking them on Saint Clair, still in some capacity, but that that's another. That's a bait. That definitely you go. OK, if you're serious about trolling, that's probably man. Trust me, I'm. I haven't ran it enough in a while, but now that I'm saying this out loud, I'm going. I used to smoke them in the prop wash on those things short line 2025. You know what I'm saying? Maybe even tighter. That's a great prop wash bait. What else is kind of old gold, Jay? What ones are like? Yes. Need to.
Jay:
Daredevils big spoons, come on now, going around forever. Guys were coming in earlier this week and asked me about it's like, why do you guys sell a lot of spoons? What do people actually use them for? Muskie fishing because it was like a primary bait for the guy. You know, putting a trailer on that thing and running big two and three ounce spoons. Bring them really shallow and he does well with them. I'm like, no, they're they're they're sleeper baits.
Steven:
For sleeper. It's, I mean, I've got. I've again, I I will troll spoons, which are easy to manage their depth. You know on down rods, but that yeah, I really got again, I'm not saying that's something I'm doing very often. I really got to have to have my back against the wall. But Bucher, I mean Bucher with the slop, was it slop, master spoon or sloppy, sloppy Joe Spoon or?
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, slab master Smith.
Steven:
Slop. Slop daddy.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven:
What is? What is? What is it slot mask? It's spooney spooney. It's what slot master. Oh, my apologies. With the Joe Bucher spooney spooney. I've seen him. You know. Smoke some fish over really thick stuff. You really couldn't get in. So that is interesting, you know, again.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Well, I don't know if I. I mean, I I you gun to the head. I'd rather just have a buck. Anyway, I what's what's one more here? Sleeper bait. I like the guys premise. I'm looking here along the walls of the bait cafe. Something that doesn't get much love, but it's worth having in your box. I'll tell you the the one I'm looking at, I'll take. I'll take up the mantle and say a Cisco kid. Something that doesn't get a lot of love anymore. You don't hear people raging about Cisco kids. What's the is it the 20? I can't remember the sizing. 1600. What's the big one? 1800? The sinking and they sink, correct.
Jay:
- 1800s big one. That's a great crank big. Most of them are very neutral actually.
Steven:
I was gonna say, I mean, it's been a while. Well, since I'm throwing one, but I remember ripping, pulling twitching those baits and I'm looking at some that look brand new and some that are Billy goaded up on the metal from banging rocks in Canada and that that's a bait that heck yeah, I mean, and the cool thing is this, I'll say this most of the baits we've mentioned nothing like esoteric handmade.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Stuff most of them are dirty, cheap too, Jay. Like you can get a Cisco kid for nothing. Great. Trolling bait. We got the charts on the app. One more for you, Jay. What's what's kind of old school? Cool. Like a a piece of gold. That that's long forgotten that you would throw. Big Joe, Big Joe. She's coming out with the fan. Yeah.
Jay:
That's the the 1st baby. That's the original. The O gene soft plastic.
Steven:
Ohh Gee yeah, that is. I actually got a couple of those hanging on the wall that. They were very. Fast fall, you know what I'm saying? It's like it's.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Like a shadish body with the up and down tails quick rated descent, the first fish ever got on one of those is actually jigging it. I didn't know what I was doing, but I'm just kind. Of hopping it like what if I? Did you? Do 2 do 2 hops and get smoked.
Jay:
No instruction on.
Steven:
The back now, here's a hunk of rubber that we some have said Muskies will eat it. Maybe they did have instructions in the back. I didn't read that one, or neither did my dad. I guess at that point. But he just went, huh? What do we do with these? Do. We throw them and turn the handle. You figure you figure it out when you're kind of around. It's like, you know, when dogs. Came out and everybody's trying to figure out what to do with them. Like, well, I've heard legend. That. You pull them, you know, whatever. So they have the big jar. That is a cool, but I would definitely recommend it. I'll tell you probably Cisco kid, Big Joe and the and the swim whizz is the ones we talked about as far as like really worth looking into in my opinion of what we sort of touched on the Big Joe actually is very viable on shad based. Bodies. Water. Right. And I still throw it's it's Joe Bucher had this one, what's well not the big. You know I'm talking about. It's like the Joe Bucher rubber bait that existed for like an hour. And a half, yeah. They they look like a Big Joe. And I can't remember what Bucher called it, and I've got him there. This. I've caught fish on those in the last year. I've got them hanging here when I need them. I've got them. I've got a couple in the boat, but it's it's kind of a a tip of that to the Big Joe after it went away, which is like a small rubber bait that gets down and dirty fast with. Two tails. So big thump. Tiny target is in comparison to modern rubber, so those are worth having. But yeah, the the Big Joe, you've got them at the shop now, right? I think those are back big.
Jay:
Joes back, most innovations make some we do.
Steven:
There you go, thruster. All right, let's freaking get after it here, Jay, little couple Q&A's here. I'm beat. Like I'm beat like a dog today. You're you've been.
Steven:
You've been after it all day. Haven't you had to go to some? Some funsies. He had some.
Jay:
Yeah, a lot of driving today, yeah.
Steven:
One driving Jay was driving Miss Daisy. All right, James. I'm looking for ride advice. First off, I have a permanently injured wrist that forces me to use baits on the small side. Maps muscular 6 and slide 7 inch diving. Rise. Easy pulling comp water. I can't really use heavy baits that. The driving.
Steven:
Retrieved due to my wrist. Currently uses 7 two Mojo rod that I really like. What I'm looking for is a vice on would be a new telescoping rod that gives me a longer rod link thinking the longer. Rob would give me more leverage for fish and glide and dive and rise. Bats make it easier on my wrist. The rod itself needs to be on the lighter weight side, not real bulky handle. OK. I'm going to paraphrase this. Oh, OK, he says. Hold on. It it's kind of he's saying his wrist is just ganked up kind of arthritic kind of something like that. Jay, he's he's on A72 light. We're talking light, light, light, light, the lightest of light weight rod.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
One thing I would consider in this situation James is and it depends. Like I said, I'm not looking at your wrist or this. I had a gentleman few years back, really cool. He actually had a a deformity in his arm and was able to musky fish using a jig Ripper, right?
Jay:
It's just what I was going to bring up.
Steven:
So look at a jig Ripper where you would place that on the four grip of a rod. Right. And maybe that's a easier hold, right, because you're holding your, you're positioning your wrist instead of contorting it to palm a reel, or how you're holding the wrist. Consider a jig Ripper as your main grip. You can work diving rice, you can work jerk baits, you can work anything with those, and that might change the. Angle of of how you're holding your arm, Jay, what would you say is the lightest rod at the at the Muskie shop? As far as you know it's it's, it's not going to be cheap, but you know that's the way it goes with rods. The the lighter they are, the more expensive they tend to be. The but if this guy's got to get a one and done on and a good good rod Jay, what are?
Jay:
You thinking Skixx? Some of the tournament series and the Saint Croix's are extremely light as well.
Steven:
I've got Skixx this kicks, kicks, comes in lighter but.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
It's still got some bulk. Like the the back section of, it's kind of bulk. What's the legend? What? The legend tournament elite. Are those the cheapest? Are not the of is the lightest.
Jay:
Yes, they are. Yeah, those are those that's a pricey rod, but that's the elite of the elite. Yeah, and that is as light as you're going to find on the market. That is truly a muskie powered rod. Yeah.
Steven:
I mean. Let me just get in here. It's always interesting.
Jay:
Yeah, but I think he probably would benefit from a jig Ripper. I'm just thinking that with his situation that that for 25 bucks, you.
Steven:
Well, you know what, Todd? Well, just. Know more than try. Yeah, because they make the tournament Muskie tournament legend rods or whatever the heck they are with the built in thing. Again, I got got big hands. Not not trying to gloat, Jay, but when I've grabbed the pistol grip on the legend tournament, muskie rod, that only that the grip actually only comes about the middle of my palm. It's a small grip on that rod. Like if I if I'm holding it like I'm holding a jig Ripper, which fills my entire hand. That pistol grip on the legend tournament only comes about mid palm, which is kind of weird, right? I can only get a couple fingers on. That thing? So that's something to consider. I would probably go with the jig Ripper if that idea is possible. He did say telescoping and I'm not sure. Did they make a sync? What's the? What's the? OK. He said telescoping. So what's the lightest Saint Croix? Tell us.
Jay:
There should be a nine foot medium heavy, but that's going to come with the jig. Ripper cause that'll be a legend. Turn in this series. That's telescoping.
Steven:
No, no, I'm saying, he said he. Ohh, dammit. Telescope. Oh, I didn't know the legend tournament was telescoping now.
Jay:
I'll be they they have a couple.
Steven:
Yeah, OK, so legend tournament. If you gotta have telescoping, if I was really looking for something cause Bucher screwed his shoulder up years back.
Jay:
We've got two versions of this.
Steven:
He actually fell on the boat. He had this fish. It was, he called it the tassen musky because it knocked the crap out of him. He fell on the boat. And he just went shoulder into the fish finer and screwed him up pretty good, right? That was what he had to do. He had to go to the lighter Saint Croix to sort of rehab his shoulder for a long time. I'll tell you, I don't know what the the weight of the overall rod is here. Now this rod, I mean this is a budget rod that okumas and their weird little size telescoping the the EV X. Man, they're kind of bulky. I mean, I don't know what's a compre.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Comp rate come in and I'm looking here. I don't know. There's been. I would. I would if you can spend the money and get the legend tournament. If I'm looking for the lightest of the light that can handle it, I've got a couple. The old green one. Steel. Jay and you know, it's it. I I keep them around. If, like my moms in town, you know, or something like that. Somebody's like, oh, I want something tiny that that would be my take. Check out the legend tournament. Or. Excuse me, a legend. Elite. You're going to pay for it, but that and the big Ripper would be my advice there. Goodness gracious. Hope it helps. Next next next next. Anthony, I'm looking to add one of two. Excuse me, I'm looking to add one of those two baits to my toolbox. OK. He wants to add one of these two. Sorry. Crazy Audrey. I'm torn between a slammer, fatty minnow and a jointed Dr. I know they're not a direct comparison, but I'm looking for something that's the size to mid depth hits a mid tempo. Blah blah, blah blah blah. Looking for some versatility? Slammer, fatty or a jointed Dr. I'm I'm a Jay. I know you're a fan of a slammer, fatty man. Oh, as am I. He did say it's not a direct comparison. The slammer fatty minnow is more buoyant than the jointed death threat. I'm gun slammer. Fatty man, where are you at, Jay?
Jay:
The death rate is going to dive deeper now. He joined version so you know the slammer. Fatty mental you're you're cranking that thing you're trawling to about seven. You're you're cranking to about three. Yeah. And you know, Steve's right. It's got a fairly buoyant tendency to it. But yeah, the joint of Death rater is. Extremely, it's plastic too, so it's unbelievably durable, just like the fatty metal. You're not going to get even the paint jobs last. I mean, they're just super tough finishes.
Speaker
Well.
Steven:
Well, I just he I just read. He he didn't prattle on by any means, but the line the the there's a couple lines on there was continuing on with these thought and I just said Fatty where he sent a little bit deeper I mean this like Jay said three feet on the cast at speed so if you need to get down and tick and click and you need to get slowed down the baby to Dr. Right. And to be honest with you, when I looked at it, I thought it was slam or fatty, meaning it wanted versus the jointed shallow rider. So my poetry, so if it's more of a mid depth or getting down and. Dirty. Now the other commentary I make is this and just a point. If you're trying to get down and hit mid depth stuff. The joint debate would not be the ticket because jointed base runs shallower than straight.
Jay:
Yeah. And he said, baby. Dr. yeah. So that's that's a little bit. That's probably actually right in the range of the slammer. 6 inch fatty mental. So. OK, I got it.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, some of that they, they they don't do the same things. Why not both? Why not both? I I I get what he's saying. He he had a little bit written there about not want to have he wants to be a bait user not a bait owner per say but those two I think would be exclusive from one of each other would be like I think an appropriate comparison for me would be like do I get a slammer. Fatty, fatty minnow or a straight depth rater. Or excuse me straight shallow rater. You know what I'm saying or? Or or could I get away with a slammer fatty man over, say a a super shad rap, where if we're going for the the Dr. I'm thinking more depth, more depth, more depth across the board anyway, Cliff. Here it is, Jay. I don't know if you can answer this one, can you are you, do you have your thinking cap on? It's it's harder than hell it is. It's.
Jay:
Bringing on.
Steven:
I don't know how many years you've been to muskie. Shop. A lot. A lot. OK, so this is a question you've never been asked. Prepare. Prepare yourself.
Jay:
I doubt it so.
Steven:
Cliff, if I could only have one color bucktail, what would it be, Jay?
Jay:
I remember a very old a very early podcast where you discussed this and you you're giving advice to a new angler and it's black with nickel blade.
Steven:
There you go. Name.
Jay:
Yeah, of course. If you're fishing, rivers are really dark water. Heavy algae bloom water most of the season. You might want to consider black with orange.
Steven:
Could could work, but if it just if I had listen. I'm I I don't remember when I said that, but I it's I've I've said it. If you just were like, screw it. Dude, you can have one musky bait and that's it. Like you got to go catch fish on one bait and one bait alone. That was what it was. Yeah, remember.
Jay:
That was it. That was exactly. Yeah.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Give me a frickin #8 bladed black single blade bucktail.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Black skirt, nickel blade. Screw it. If the river's turbid or if it's stained, I'll get close enough to one now. I ain't. I'm gonna tear them up. But I could catch one. It doesn't matter what the season is, right? There's so many ways to whether you're slow rolling it, whether you're burning it. So, yeah, black and nickel. That's your core foundational. Element, especially if you're kind of getting you're new to the game, you're just trying to go hey, screw it. I I because we had a conversation on the podcast previous episode. Where we. Hey, I I believe I believe I told the guy. Listen, put on a black and silver buck tail and throw that son of a gun at the edges till he catch fish. Right. You got to realize what's working and whatnot. What's not I mean? How do you use a bait where you use a bait is all about seasonality. You know, So what we're what we're doing doesn't really matter as long as we're applying it appropriately. Ohh goodness. John Bingham. He sent a short photo collage. Actually looked at this and and John's a friend of the podcast from the shop where he showed how to assemble a cool little rod holder using phobia studs. I'll put that, you know, I'll put that as a little photo tutorial on that in the next couple of days. Jay, it's just a quick little mod of some parts and pieces you can get to make a rod. Water for the deck of your boat, which was actually pretty slick. Good job. John. Let me see this one. Keep going. I didn't even get the questions. Put whatever was on the water so late today, Jay. I'm read them in real time. Drew happens multiple times, 24 feet of water, massive clouds of bait on the bottom up to 15 feet. I've dropped a camera down to see what type of Bay I've seen large muskies within a foot of the bottom. Once it's all two muskies at the same time. This has happened dozens of times and I've only caught one on a fuzzy does it? Are these fish so negative that they won't eat? I'm frustrated to see actual fish and not be able to catch. Them one time in the fall, I dropped a sucker down and saw on the camera that the Muskie looked at my sucker and slowly swam away, swam away, slipping him. The Finn drew it here sitting.
Jay:
This.
Steven:
Going I'm right in front of him. He flips you the Finn. I've been there. Pan Optics, trust me. That doctor Bob had talked to him earlier today for a second. You know, I I always think about we had a little winter adventure where we had some live bait hanging and you're sitting there go oh, there's the 15th one to come look at it. I'm paying optics and just kind of look at it and go no back off. So we're dealing with 24 feet of water and muskies on the bottom. He's sitting on a camera. You got, you know, got those Aqua view cameras, all that fun stuff. You can actually get down there and dirty and see fish caught one on a fuzzy, does it? Are these fish negative and neutral and they won't eat and they're in a ton of bait. Well, one thing that's happening, they're in a ton of bait. Right, they're in a ton of bait. So if if there's these baked clouds and these bait balls and and and they're. Just right there. There needs to be a determination made between one or two things. Are they eating that bait? Are they eating? What's eating that bait? Which way is the food chain go? If they're eating the cloud Bay if let's say it's shiners, let's say it's Chad. Let's say it's perch. Figure out what that bait is. Right. Are there other fish predating? Are there walleye coming in on that? Are there other fish that the Muskies are staged and anticipating the arrival of something to per date on that bait ball? If they're just straight eating the small bait, it's tough. It's a tough one because turn their head left food, turn your head right, more food. OK, so sometimes it's hard to compete against me if you did, if you caught one on fuzzy, does it try a Bondi? Right. If we're going straight off the bottom, if happens, then the other contacts here, massive clouds of baits on the bottom up to 15 feet. I I'm I'm.
Jay:
Bondi vertical presentation as opposed to something you know on a.
Steven:
Will. The other thing I'm looking here I didn't know if there's any other contacts is looking for other contacts in the question of like if it if it's a whole or if it if say this is a just an entire Bay or whatever the scenario is if you have room to trail because sometimes you'll get in a place where it's like, OK, here's the one deep hole in this lake and everything's just like. Boom. Consolidated. Right. And and it's a better option to to vertically jig or or cast than it is to troll because you're spending more time outside of where you want to be, right? Like doubling them back. But if this is like an extended area. And I know if you know Muskies are bottom type via your electronics or your submersible camera. And we know they're bottom tight and they're small bait. There's clouds and we says clouds, I think small bait. Right. That's the reason I'm kind of going there. Are they eating that? Are they eating the other?
Jay:
Sure, sure.
Steven:
Something like a reef digger in a trolling scenario becomes something serious. Or like the Smitty deep. Actually, in the book I talk about like there's very few what I call truly deep trolling baits, right? There's a lot of baits we can add stuff to, there's a lot of baits you can wait and get down there, but there's very few baits that are like we are. This bait is meant to get down to 15/20/25 feet. Even right Speaking of another cool bait that I don't think they even make anymore. Maybe they do remember not man's. Remember man's Jay. That company? Serious. Yep. He had the man's 202530.
Jay:
Yeah, the stretch series. Stretch 30.
Steven:
Those are viable, but I would my favorite true deep baits right now are the Smitty deep right and the reef digger. And they make the big Daddy reef digger. So figure out to the best of your ability what the food chain is and whatever body of water you're. Right. Are they predating on the little cloud fish? You know how there's tons of whatever 4 inch perch or it's going to be tough, right? It makes sense of why they're not. Is it a presentation thing where you need to not match the Hatch of what's in the clouds? You need to figure out what the the what the gap is in between the musky and. This bait fishes. You know, be it walleye, be it big. Maybe it's, you know, whatever large mouth, maybe brown trout. I don't know. That other Fisher president in that would make a logical. Segway from the Muskies to that bait school because I've often seen when the bait is really, really small and it's quote UN quote clouds of bait. The Muskies are predating on whatever's hitting that, and when that stuff comes in. Something has the size of the profile, the right action that represents what's predating on those baked clouds. Then you got. Then you got a ball game, right? So that's what I would do. Give it a look. That are.
Jay:
Yeah, and. Not uncommon. You know, he's he's like a foot off the bottom and 24 feet of water. That's a deeper part of. The. Lake probably for that situation. I mean, there's a lot of deep clear lakes in northern Wisconsin during the day. You know, when you got plenty of light going on, you know, not the low light periods.
Jay:
MHM.
Jay:
Fisher, you can't see anything. You're not seeing. Fish. Fish are deep holding. Good. You know, percentage of the day. So it's just, like, make your adjustments. I like what you're saying with. You know, around the Bay clouds what is predating on them, because that's what you need to be thinking about. That's that's a great.
Steven:
What? What? Tactic. OK, here is one from Matt and I just read it. Matt wanted to know. If I could talk about the point I made about glide Bates last week again and it actually came up on the boat and I got a couple other emails about this and I forgot about it, should have talked, should have been at the top of the show, but I didn't. I was talking about kind of that ninja trick about setting your glide bait up, so you're setting to the appropriate side, right? So clarification sake on this. I haven't had any pepsis today either, Jay. So because even clear.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
As we're throwing a glide bait. It obviously goes left and it goes right. As a left-handed Angler, I am holding the rod in my right hand. OK. And vision with me here, folks, I'll do a video on this shortly cause it it's a couple. Of people like whoa. If the bait is going to the left and I sit the rod to the left, the hooks go into the fishe mouth, right? If the bait for a left-handed Angler, if it's pointed the opposite way and I set to the left, the. Bait comes up. And the penetration of the initial force is going in an upward manner and we're not getting penetration as well as we could if we're setting from the other side, OK, so your glide bait now is turned away from you. What I want to do and the simplest way to get this to make it super. Clear for everybody. If you hold your. Spot on the left hand side of your body. Make sure your pulses the head of the baits pointed to the left. If you hold your rod on the right side of your body, it's better that when you pause at the head of the bed is pointed to the right. So when you set the hook, you get the best hook set possible. You don't have to go. Up and over. Right. Because say, most people are righties. OK, so as a right hand, angler, follow me. If the bait is pointed away from your rod tip when you set. Hook up up into the side. Right. You're pulling towards the beak of the fish, which is a hard place to hook, right? And it's got to come. It's got to pop over so that force is pulling it up and less and toward the side and up. Does that make sense? OK. You follow right. So what you need to do is train yourself to pause your bait. So the head of your glide bait is pointing to your dominant side. Your hook cut settings sides left, right, left. Pause for me. And most people are righty. So I should probably say, you know, left, right, left, right and right. I pause on my right hand sides. Right. So it's pointed the right way. We need it to be so when the fish tea bones up, bam we set. That thing has the highest potential to actually get penetration. Instead of trying to pull it up and over, that's just a talk. We'll, we'll show it in video format.
Jay:
Yeah, that'll be a great visual to to describe in the next video we should do. A, you know? Yeah.
Steven:
We'll do a glider.
Jay:
You know, video or jerk. They video in general coming. Up here soon, hopefully.
Steven:
Gliders. We got the freaking rubber 1 coming out in a day or two. Look for. And dig into.
Jay:
That would be cool.
Steven:
You know.
Jay:
It's a cool.
Steven:
10 it's.
Speaker 4
It's a it's a burn burner.
Jay:
It's a big one. It's a big one. It's over an hour or Steve.
Steven:
Turner. All right, Eric. You mentioned previously about inexpensive shad bodies and rigging them yourself. How do these differ from pre bot muskie swim baits? Oh well, they're not pre rigged and the versatility is there, so we're adding to not taking away. So let's look here and looking. So there's all my swim baits, so we got swimming dogs, we got poseidons we've got with the savage gear. What else do we have, Jay? What's kind of swim basis that covers the major ones? You know, most people are really doubting on swimming dogs and and just so.
Speaker 4
Jekyll, Dunkel, Jackal dunk. Ohh from the makers of.
Steven:
Freaking. The Jackal, that what is it? Jackal dunkel. OK, I can.
Jay:
Jack Dunkle, CPA.
Steven:
Knocking Shack Dunkle I can pick on Shimano. Nobody from Shimano's listening this evening. Jackal dunkle. Listen, let's. Put together 2 words.
Speaker 4
Have nothing to do with fishing, and name the bait that.
Jay:
They you laugh, Elmer's caught fish on that thing on the Eagle River chain. He loves that bait.
Steven:
You could catch anything on you, catch fish on anything for up for freaking.
Jay:
Good point. He's caught fish. Yeah, as a study, he. Caught fish on on Oscar Mayer.
Steven:
Wieners. I was about to say he could walk a freaking kosher. Frank, like a post giant jackpot and catch one on.
Jay:
That like, that's what they did back. In the day. That's before somebody when they ran low on bait, they they.
Steven:
Made.
Jay:
It's their launch.
Steven:
Yeah, that rumor has it the Smitty's didn't. They started making baits out of potted meat and and hot dogs.
Jay:
That's why they short lunch so often. You know, they're like, look at this. We got some lunch. Yeah. OK, go ahead. Go ahead.
Steven:
So anyway, back back to the swim Bay thing here. Go ahead. So. If you're going to do raw swim bait bodies and do your own rigging, it's very European, right? That's what my my euro friends, ooh La La, though, and that's very popular there. The versatility is huge, right? You don't need Dubai.
Jay:
Anything.
Steven:
Amid a shallow a deep variation of a. Bait. You got a rubber body that has. I mean, if you take an unweighted swim bait and throw it in the water, right, it's it's pretty slow. Sink, right? It's not like, whoa. So you're in ultimate control of your waiting. Right. If they're on swim baits, you're in control of the waiting. They'll hold your breath. We've teased about the magnets that will be out here for too long, or we're working on the prototypes of the actual finished prototypes will be in my hands are pretty soon, which is a versatile waiting swim bait. Thank you but.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
And also the crack entails, but nonetheless, while we're still dealing with rubber baits, look at the Stone Age here. Buying a pre rig swim bait. Yes, it makes sense if you're dialed in on that, but it's hard to take weight away from one of those. You got a slice or opening and then you got it. You've ruined a $30 bait, right? So you're confined to whatever you got. If you bought a shallow, you can add weight, but you know they tend to run differently. So I like unrigged swim base as a platform for dialing in. Now if you don't know what's going on. Right. It makes no sense, Vic. I'm going to dial in swim baits. Well, if you don't know the seasonality, you don't know the pattern. You don't know they're eating swim baits. It's not going to go well. But if you're dialed in on swim baits, using unrigged stuff is is great. Now, a habit that I've had when it's come to swim baits in the past is primarily using the lighter ones like the pre made ones using shallow variations of them. So I can add. You know, I'm saying you can't take anything away if you got a heavy one.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
You're just, you know, you can hold your, you can hold your rod up so high and the baits not running right, so versatility, versatility, versatility. I mean, it's like why the Titans have versatile waiting systems, they're cracking. I don't know what I'm walking into tomorrow. You know, not many patterns last a whole week. Right. They're they're dialed in on certain size, but they move location. So it's action and versatility. So that is the benefit of of the paddle tails of of rigging your own, whether it be you know, down to the small stuff. I think a lot of people, Jay, get weirded out because you're, like screwing and the weights in and you know, you got the external harness. You know when you're doing?
Jay:
Any one question you may have is primarily, are you starting out with the jig head and then? Going from there with your mods.
Steven:
Absolute. No, no. They look, they look like a single hook jig head, no. Now the way again you look at like European swim baits or some of the stuff.
Jay:
You're making your own harness with troubles.
Speaker
Steven:
You're making your own harness with multi strand wire and you're using screw in small weights, right? And then what you'll have is you'll have a weight. Basically there's a nose weight that's like. Goes into the nose of the swim bait and everything drops down below that right, and so you can get. You can do whatever you want. You could. Put 50 yachts on it. Whatever. Whatever configuration. So you're just you're making the rig. Control of the waiting entirely so that that becomes a matter of you better know what you're doing because you can do some more harm than good. That's the one. I think that. And that's one reason I I don't think you see a lot of musky guys going with the the unrigged swim baits. You know, there's piles of them in Europe. They try to do it, but guys are like, oh, but you know, a lot of the Pike fishing, especially whenever the Netherlands and doing that, we were taking cracking paddle tails and magnets prototypes. You know as much weight as we could get armed to get them down, right? So it's a little bit of a deeper fishery, so it wouldn't be uncommon. To have you know ounce of lead in the front and an ounce in the middle, you know, and on on a small. So it's a depth thing, but you know most people are just not comfortable with it. It's worth learning. I mean, if you're on a lake that like swim baits, yeah, get dialed in on it and then hey, a great starting point is what everything else. Way it says it on the package. You know that's a eight out at the end of the swimming dog is 12 ounce. It's a 12 inch swim bait and it weighs what you know. Well, where your bodies and go from there, we'll do one more here, Jay Austin. What would you recommend? Before, excuse me, what would you recommend? Pan optics or side scan? Pan optics? Absolutely. So I'm not a big I can make things happen with side scam, but I think I get more benefit out of panoptic S from watching trolling baits to seeing the actual movement of forage. It's way easier to interpret for me side scan I was actually using side scan today, we're. Trolling. And there's an art, and I was trying to show a client that there's kind of an art to understanding. With the the depth. Of things on side scan, right? So let's say you see a fish and it's 40 feet off the side of your boat. Well, how do we get a feel for where he's at in the water column? Is he on the bottom? Is he on the top? Where is he? Wear panoptic for this. Well, he's, you know, 25 feet out, 10 feet down. Right. So they're, they're. I you'll get more better and in my opinion, for the way I fish and I think for just general. Angling, you're going to get more information, more data to work with of a pan optic setup than than side scan. And I say that because when pan optics since panoptic has been out, I've relied far less on my size scan for. All right, where the bait fish are. They, you know, are they the left of my boat to the right of my boat? You know, where's the weed edge, right. Things that you, yeah less guessing opposed to. OK, here's the you know. Where's that rock? Well, it's right there. And I see it now. Instead, I had to drive by it. And that's one thing I don't like about side skin. You all in with side skin. You have to be in motion.
Jay:
Discussion.
Steven:
Right. For it to really be super beneficial you. Have to be. Moving and it's behind you, you know. Yes, you can put in the front here, but yeah, it's the path that most people are not and that you're just seeing snapshots. We're paying up to go while the bait fish are there on site. And I've done it with side skin.
Jay:
That's. Past.
Steven:
We're. Hey man, the bait fish are over here. Well, are they? Are they really in motion? Are they just scattered? What are they with panoptic? OK. The bait fish are really balled up or the bait fish are spread out in real time. So it gives you a better inclination of what you need to do speed and depth, right? It really gives you a feel for what's happening with how you approach. Your speed and depth, and one thing I'll tell you, I was looking here at the wall. Jay, I'm looking at the wall of the bait cave. I rarely looked to this direction. I do have it. It did switch back to the swim baits thing, circling back as.
Jay:
You caught your eye.
Steven:
Say now, rigging your own swim baits. Something as interesting as the is.
- Is getting accustomed to that. You're you can quickly. Hit running depths when you downsize 2. You know what I'm saying? Because I've got a bag of like 6 inch swim bats that are like big bath swim baits. And you're going OK. That's handy. It's a handy skill to have and a handy kind of mindset you know? Alright man, I got a pile of these and you know if I if I need to hit 10 feet down and I need to rig one of these things real quick, you know I'm I'm getting followers on a 10 inch boat. Take it down to six. You got a lot of versatility there. You're getting more bang for the buck. But pretty soon you'll get pretty good bang for the buck with the Magnus. You'll see that here soon anyway, Jim. Goodness, Greg, what am I missing?
Jay:
I have no idea.
Speaker 4
Say goodnight.