Musky 360 Podcast
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 263: Savage Gear with Mads and Danny Herbeck
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 262: Steve Herbeck Cold Water and Beyond
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 261: Super Musky Black Friday
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 260: Never Ending Musky Fall
Transcript:
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast at Jaybird. Have you hung your Turkey? By the the fire with cares and that is that what we're supposed to you're going to be doing?
Jay:
That's one of the holidays coming up, Steve and by.
Jay:
The way I said. The cookie is in the. Yeah, it's all.
Steven:
I'll say the.
Jay:
Another week.
Steven:
I'll say the minocqua choice of sacrifice is coming. I believe, right? Isn't that the other holiday you celebrate there where you you guys choose a tribute.
Jay:
Yeah. The last couple of years has been musky, suckers.
Jay:
But this year, it's.
Steven:
Gonna be a Turkey. OK. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Jay:
It's gonna sacrifice something, baby.
Steven:
The. Quarter quell, if you will folks, so. This Jay, what is going on around the shop other than freaking it is not cold. I just talked to Josh Krieger. We'll talk to him in a second on the podcast, but it ain't cold yet, baby. But people still going in, you seeing you seeing the best of the North Woods. Roll in some. I know I'm hearing about big fish. Get caught.
Jay:
- Do you?
Steven:
What are you here? What's the? What's the vibe? What's the skin in vegan? What's the skin?
Jay:
Yep, yeah, yeah.
Jay:
Sucker Fish has.
Jay:
Been really good. So I mean, everything's still open, you know, and everything will be open for a while. We got some colder weather coming towards Thanksgiving or later this next week, but it's not going to walk up lakes. Anytime soon. So.
Steven:
No.
Jay:
Quite a few of the ******** people still fishing and pretty happy about it and getting a few fish. I haven't heard anything. I haven't heard reports from Friday. You know, it was full moon and everything and. I haven't heard much.
Steven:
And we we had some, I was swinging the bat this week and it was pretty interesting. I mean it, it's just it isn't, you know. You said it last week. Say it again. Don't don't fish the calendar, fish the conditions, you know, whatever. What it does just because it says. What is it? Today's the 17th. I cannot believe it.
Jay:
Yes, OK.
Steven:
Yeah, it's like freaking. I woke up and it was June. Maybe it's just age. Maybe it's just age. You go. What do you know going into it? You did say. I can't believe it, guys. We. I thought we had wrapped up the comings and the goings at the Muskie shop, but yet again you got the slammer 9 inch. I think you mentioned it last week, but you there's a sign up on there now.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
So if you're a slammer aficionado, if.
Jay:
Yeah, this is cool. Yeah. I I threw it. I trolled quite a bit over the summer. Got some protos in of the year. So just got a video up today or yesterday on the 9 inch Slammer. Mental. Really cool wobble. I mean, the thing almost it, it goes left to right while it's going side to side. It's like all Slammers, single, super tough, solid plastic, internal harness and everything like that. Toughest nails and the the the key with this is it runs shallower than the 8 inch minnow and shallower than 10 inch minnow. So hence the wobble is different. I think I call a little. Bit more violent wobble. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
He's got about every size. What's your name? Yeah, it's it's just a staple. You can't go wrong. I'm sure it'll be just another staple in the ****. For everybody there, what else we did this, I believe. Yes. Finally. Because I finally got them. All the photos are up now, boys. So pick your poison if you want to see what they look like. Got a little glitter in the white little glitter in the black. Those are up the disco shed, which is just devastating, is up there. So all the colors that are going to be available at launch or up on that base, you can check them out. I do recommend signing up for.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
The release notification, which should be. Sent out. It's going to be after the. First of the. Year. But you know they're going to, they're going to be hot, hot.
Jay:
That will be the hot days this year.
Steven:
Should have the. Have the let's see here. I don't know if the illustrious. Lister of Things did it here. Will shortly have, I will remind. One of the people here that lives in my house that we need to put the replacement tails. So there's. Hey, let me call you right back. Jay. We got somebody lined up for the show, baby. Oh, goodness. On the other line, how you just beeped in. I was talking to Jay and. Here we are. I'm talking to my good friend Cody Noggle. Ohh my goodness man. We just fished together. We had some Donkey Kong action, didn't we, buddy?
Jay:
Beautiful animals.
Steven:
Beautiful animals everywhere was beautiful animals. They were animals, you know, in the net, out of the net around the boat we had a we had a hook there. Man got got to hit, hit the water. Here and interesting guy, we're going to be able to kind of lean on. Here is a resource. You know, we're always hearing about Northwoods or Canada, this stuff you hear a little bit of at the South from me, Cody's right there in Central PA man, where are you fishing? What's going on like kind of what's what's your your range that you're kind of hitting that area?
Jay:
All pretty well for me, if anybody's familiar with Middletown, where TMI is in Pennsylvania. Mm-hmm. Clear from there. Clear to the West Branch. All of the junior add up to Raystown Lake and clear to Williamsport. There's a big range.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Big water and Susquehanna and tight water in the Juniata.
Steven:
Yeah. And you? You ain't afraid to keep the tires hot, and you know, I know.
Jay:
You know, we got. We gotta. We gotta keep them moving so.
Steven:
The water's really here. We can catch. Catch them. What? What? What's kind of going on there right now? And I'm hearing from everybody, obviously you know the North Woods, it's warmer than usual, it's warmer than usual for me. Is that holding true where you're at?
Jay:
Which one and we are in a drought, the. Waters are low.
Steven:
Yeah. And you said, what was the junior addict you said?
Jay:
That that makes it tricky sometimes.
Steven:
You said like, what is it genetic? You said it's just parts that are just way too low to even do anything in.
Jay:
A jet, right? You can't even launch the bait. Sometimes in some of the launches, I mean. It's it's low. But if you can't get out, obviously I don't have anywhere to go. Like you said, they're not in the woods.
Steven:
You know. They. So it's and it, you know, you and I were talking just on the boat. Here in in Gavin about we've been friends for a long time and. It's one of these deals where where, you know, Cody's obviously dialed in on pocket pools, eddies, you know, the in shallow waters, they're going to take advantage of what depths they have in a system, you know, that's down when you're suffering from a drought like that, you know, do you find that that that they're packed even tighter? If you can accept if it's accessible.
Jay:
If it's accessible, absolutely.
Steven:
You know.
Jay:
You you better not stoop them. That's one thing I can say you need to approach them correctly and you need to be very tactile in what you do.
Steven:
Right. Would it be completely because just because the water, yeah, well, good.
Jay:
It's so low. It's so clear. You don't leave still.
Steven:
And.
Jay:
Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. Whenever the waters are low, it's still, I mean, you you got to be very, very tactile. And how you do it.
Steven:
Well, again comparison, do you? What? What? How? Like, let's say you're you're. Let's take away the the the. The simply the drought stage, but you know, it's obviously going to vary all the time. Rivers have the tendency to do that obviously. How are you trying to approach some of these holes or some of these slack water areas? What are you doing to kind of go in on stealth mode? Like what's the process to get dialed in on that?
Jay:
So I made my eddies. I'm in the. Pocket spools like you said. I'll sit there in the current scene to start. I'll sit there on the current scene on the. The flow of that river right where the antenna is. I'll sit there right on that currency. And this troll sit there and just stay in. Stay in.
Steven:
Position stay in position.
Jay:
I will finish that currency until I know nothing's happening and. Then I'll hit the Eddy.
Steven:
Gotcha. OK.
Jay:
As they're sitting there, whenever that orders like that and. I mean, you can then you see the bottom and you can. I mean you can give him a high 5 sometimes if you wanted to. You don't want to get in there too aggressively, too quick. Now exhaust that currency.
Steven:
Just met him, yeah. Jack.
Jay:
Then move into the Eddy. And you pointed it out multiple times before saturation, saturation, saturation and you have to be low and slow because they are tucked to the bottom. There's nowhere else for them to go. They're using one rock, two rocks out of that, 81 down timber out of that Eddy. And that's it. And you need to make some pretty darn good. Passing the trees to get a reaction. Once you do that. It can be getting over now that that that's. Mean it's it can get really good.
Steven:
And and something like that. I I you know, you're talking about your approach and and being stealthy about it and then being smart about it. You know, shallow water snaggy water, right? A lot of times. What? What are you doing to minimize that? Like, are there, are you point like we talk on the podcast all the time buoyant.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
Gates or changing stuff up? Is it spinner based? Because in a system like that, yeah.
Jay:
I mean, you want me to? You want me to give up some dates that I'm using and say maybe 5 feet of water?
Steven:
Go right ahead. But. My only thought is this though is like. You know you you get and and you and I, you know, we're throwing some nasty timber and it's like, you know, if you if you get a bait stuck it's like we have to get this out in this tiniest of ways.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Because there's no, once we go in there. Don't and and like you know, it's like when they sink. If you get stuck, don't set the hook into it. Don't drill it in. We need to just tippy tap it because you can't go surging in there and then restage on like, a pocket. Poor Eddie and think, oh, he's going to eat now. No, you just blew the spot. You know it. It seems like that like.
Jay:
One thing I will say if you can, like you were saying, tip you tap it out of there. Yeah, if you that's back to knowing what you're hitting and it really helps to know what's down there. Yeah. Usually in these shallow waters, like I'm fishing, you can see. MHM. What's there or stream? What's there? Yeah, whatever. Whatever suits your fancy, but you need to understand the difference between a rock, timber and a fish. You just. It just takes it just takes. On the water. And it is difficult at first, but.
Steven:
Right. Yeah. You gotta feel it. Yeah, absolutely. And.
Jay:
Once you get. That dial then. You can start ticking and clicking off. So I mean that is money, absolutely money.
Steven:
What? What's kind of?
Jay:
Hello.
Steven:
Yeah. What's the kind of arsenal for that 5 foot, that skinny water so.
Jay:
I I'm I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting in your madness. What you got to throw one. We'll get. We'll get her. We'll get her. I'm not worried about it, but.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
A shallow a shallow swimming dog. Mm-hmm. And that is that has that belly wobble little attractive, and has that it has it just that action. It's for some reason. My fish level. Mm-hmm. But I will put, I'll run a straight wire leader on that. I do not. Run the floor carbon. And the reason I do that is because I'm kind of killing it and trying to keep it in position as long as I can for them to react. To it and strike.
Steven:
Gotcha. So yeah, you're letting her hanging?
Jay:
Now, if you're talking 5-6. Feet. Every now and then I'll put a. 3/8 and split shot only in front of that leader right in front of that bait or on. The end of the leader right in. Front of the bait just to give it a little, it just gives it a little bit. MHM. More belly wobble. Gives it a little bit more action. And you can get down there a little bit more and stay in my face, but it's not inhibiting anything. It's actually I think it is actually doing better for the wait and in my circumstance at least.
Steven:
Right. Right. Well, that's the thing though. If you if when you're dealing with actually the flow of a river actually augments how a bait runs, you know it's it's growing up, growing up fishing, you know, small rivers and creeks and streams.
Jay:
Ohh absolutely.
Steven:
And you know, and and he always I mean that's half the reason I just tweak the heck out of Bates at this point because you can well, yeah, that might work in a lake, but I need it to do XY and Z, you know.
Jay:
You better keep that current in your favor and that's that's back to positioning on the bottom of that, Eddy, where I am on the current stream.
Steven:
Yeah. Keep the current you're fed. Yeah. And that's the thing.
Jay:
And it it that's that's. Where you have to start.
Steven:
Right, you can't. And it's one of those deals where you can't necessarily like cast past it and bring it up. The current is. Driving your baits up at times. You know, if it doesn't have a diving lift.
Jay:
Oh yeah. I mean or even if you get a current like you don't know there's a current change going in the back of that and you're sitting a little too low your boat screw or your bait screwed as soon as you hit the fencing. If you're if you're not set up right. I mean, yeah, you're going to be better. You're going to come up sideways and you're going to be at.
Steven:
I'm sorry it already has.
Jay:
The surface before you know it.
Steven:
Right. And then and the but it?
Jay:
And then you might have had.
Steven:
Just wholly ineffective.
Jay:
A follower or two. And you made the same cast five times. Well, there goes your shot.
Steven:
Right. They're they're they're over at that point with with that shallow water. Are you throwing blades? Are you throwing spinner blades at? All. To crawl over stuff or what other stuff or. What do you focus on it?
Jay:
Winter days more so like. Uh, after spot like after, I know that they're active in spot after we're done. Spalling after I know they're active again and then three fall. I mean, obviously this is weird. It's still we're a month behind. It seems like the.
Steven:
Yeah. Right. I want me to tell him to say pretty last three weeks. Yeah, it's goofing.
Jay:
I will definitely throw a meat grinder even in that state. A city of eight at night, also a 88. And obviously they're staged a little differently in the evenings and the night. But I mean, I'll. I'll definitely try and get down there with the meat grinder whenever summertime in the waters like this too, because we went through this year, we had two major floods and it was low in between.
Steven:
In that. Everything else, let me ask you this just in that. That area, you know, Pennsylvania obviously has had Muskies for eons and. When you see a flood stage come through, let let let me let me even preface it like this. Let's say you you you're you're dialed in in the spring, right? OK. This stretch of river tends to hold fish and I'm having action in XY and Z, whatever that might be right. When a flood comes through, do you see this? This, this staging where they're. That change or do you? You know, I'm saying in. That environment, OK.
Jay:
They're not necessarily the the Eddies and the pools, they just get tighter because of the flow of current.
Steven:
They just hunker down and don't move.
Jay:
So that ending just gets tighter, even though the water is higher and it looks like there's a lot of stuff going. And Eddie's just tighter.
Steven:
OK, I just cause some system.
Jay:
And you got to get deep into that, Eddy. And if you can keep your. Base there you're gonna have.
Steven:
Luck I just asked because some systems it's like ****, they go away and it's like, OK, it's almost like a complete reorganization of things. And that's where it went.
Jay:
Yes, see here that that that does. Not happen with us.
Steven:
Good, that's.
Jay:
That does that does not happen up here, and that is the one thing that I can lean on kind of with. I'm kind of confused or whatever.
Steven:
Yeah, right. Yeah. The flood. A flood just came. What do I do? You gonna tell you? Yeah, you.
Jay:
I have involved with this. Gotta tell it into. That Eddy and just. Take apart that Eddie and if you can keep your boy.
Steven:
There now is it like for you Twitch baits like because I think shell I want to think cranes. I think Slammers, I think you know shallow Raiders you know small twitch baits is that money where you're at or what is is there ever a time or place or. Yeah, great. Thanks.
Jay:
Some of my biggest.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
There is a time and a place, though. Yeah, I will run as deep as I can and try and take her off some of these and pools if you if you got a big long St. that's a half mile long, that's a whole different ball game, but that's 100. I mean you, you got, you got to know where.
Steven:
Right. Right, right.
Jay:
That's at and that's already got. The crap beat out of. It this summer, but I mean I'll. Heavy glide bait, a heavy glide bait right there to stick it in there. Or twitching a shallow invader. Just something to keep it in their face as long as you possibly can. And fight the current. Not even fight the current, but avoid the current. And. And that's one of those things that for a lot of guys that don't and a lot of.
Steven:
You know Upper Midwest guys just don't fish rivers. They simply don't where you go. The concept being different, there might be two muskies in a 5 foot wide area. And the fight is not. About getting a follow because it's not going to happen. The fight is about getting him to come off. The bottom just smash it most of the time.
Jay:
Every action putting it in the right. Place or I mean that stuff out of.
Steven:
And I'm not a trout angler, but if you can, if you if ever say fly fish for trout, here comes the here comes the fly over a rock and the trout comes up and grabs it and goes back down. That's how a lot of swift River Muskies act. They come up the grip.
Jay:
And I was just thinking about this last night too, yes. Basically, if you're in a shallow river or. Picture it in your head. Make a trout stream. Yeah, just just scale it up. Just scale it up. Me. They're gonna be sitting behind their now. Most of us and fish trout. They're going to be sitting in the same place as the trout. Where if you just scale it up and you want. How are?
Steven:
You they do the same Sir. Where? The way I. The way I have fish trout, I don't know where I can get canned corn. Big enough for a muskie.
Jay:
Let's let's really start eating other things that.
Steven:
To go dip different trout, different trip power, right? OK, we need power bait. And we need corn. We need extra.
Jay:
Are let's when.
Jay:
We start using other things. We got tricks for that. If you need a softball sized power bait, you know don't get you. No, no, don't don't.
Steven:
Soft possess power. OK. Yeah. No, not not good advice. That would be hilarious. Just don't you gotta football.
Jay:
Take that advice. I don't do. Do. Do that. Somebody will get one on that too right here.
Steven:
As like I have here, I'll get an e-mail.
Jay:
I see the jar out. Yeah, it's got.
Steven:
You boys are laughing at it, but I got a 48 by 32 on garlic scent power beat.
Jay:
3/3 with the trouble on the.
Steven:
Back of the power beatbox and loved. It worked, it worked, but now it's conceptual like you're saying is is. It's not that dissimilar where they're going to use the the either the current to hold them down behind a rock, because if you look, if you look at the more foggier Muskies head and I think I've mentioned in the past, but.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
It. Doesn't matter, it's a slope. It's a scoop. To the top of the to the top of the skull, and that will grab water and shove them down. Brown inner river.
Jay:
Or stage to watch. They they stage themselves to watch. Yeah. And if if they can get out of the car, obviously they don't want their calories. They don't wanna do anything. They don't have to do until they actually want to.
Steven:
Right. And it's just that.
Jay:
You need to make. It as easy. As possible, make sure it is a big. Trout stream make it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
As easy as possible for them, whenever they do decide to react, if you bring your mate right in front of the right. In front of. Your face. I mean, they're they're they're being. They don't have a choice.
Steven:
Yeah, that's what they're there. To do do you find? And. So you know it's it's for, for example, say fishing on a lake, right and non rest or just a lake, you know, typically in prime time you'll find that the, say, the muskie in off the rocks or the weed bed in the right covering structure he's a little bit more active than the. Deep fish, right? But do you find in the in the same thought process? We find that the fish that's in a in a hole in a pool, right? Is that fish less app to buy than one you can find that's staged behind a rock in swift current like is the swift water fish more apt to eat because he staged there, they will be way more reactionary.
Jay:
Later.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
Because if you bring it by there fit in that swift current and the stage behind the rock as you. Were saying how? They stage themselves to deplete energy, right? They will hit that thing way quicker on a reactionary strike than something that's sitting in the ready.
Steven:
Right cause it's coming over there to go. I got. I've got a millisecond to decide.
Jay:
Yeah, that's that's all it is. And they make their decisions and it's usually pretty good if you.
Speaker
Next.
Jay:
If you bring. It by your face. You.
Steven:
Are you trying to cross the current? Are you trying to go with or against the current like? As far as.
Jay:
It's it's too high, I will not. Cross it, God. Dates just don't run right? I cannot present to them correctly. I will if current is high and I have to do that. I will bring it downstream with the current.
Steven:
With the current makes sense, let it hang and.
Jay:
If you're facing upstream, you're trolling. Just keeping your boat straight upstream and just slowly floating down. I will keep that bait coming with the current. Yeah, if there is. Any serious amount of current and that that does work. I mean that just keeps your stuff, not getting fouled up. It just it just changes it time for you're sitting there trying to fight current. You're not. You're you're facing the.
Steven:
Right, right. And you just have to at least.
Jay:
Wrong thing, you're.
Steven:
You're fighting.
Jay:
Trying to catch this. You're not trying to fight.
Steven:
Yeah. And that's The thing is, is a constant eye and something you and I talked about on the boat over few days. We're fishing here recently which.
Speaker
The.
Steven:
Focus the The, the, the the boat control, yes, is extremely important. The boat control needs to be your platform for proper presentation. And absolutely the whole focus on am I negatively or positively impacting how this bait is running and when you add in river current, it's a the the, the the dichotomy, the the importance of this is so much more, yeah little bit different so.
Jay:
This is holding.
Steven:
Moving on from that, you know we're we're getting into this. It's supposed to be cold. Apparently it's not. You're you're a hunter as well. You're talking about the ruts, not even happening with with deer and whatnot. And we're a little bit behind here, barrel. And you know, it should be a bloodbath on the interstates right now. It should be.
Jay:
Barely. Barely.
Steven:
Just deer everywhere.
Jay:
It's kicking up. I did see a couple more gears and I didn't see coming down, but there there was only little things. We're we're still, we're still waiting on that change.
Steven:
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that. But you know, you're gearing up. Pennsylvania is one of those places where you can target year round. And you know, with that when when it's going to be the prime time for somebody to get with you there, when's like when you're like, OK, we're gonna get in front of some serious fish and this is gonna be. Yeah. Yeah, that's.
Jay:
Oh, absolutely. As soon as we get rain, as soon as I can get some. Rain in the. River. And then it's it's game over. I already know where they're.
Steven:
It's game room.
Jay:
At, I mean it's it's night.
Steven:
It get get it lined up.
Jay:
And that's when we start getting into them, the smaller rubbers. And whatnot and like. We maybe talk later in the day so I can store that one out there to help some people. That helps.
Steven:
Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's that's helpful. You know, change the.
Jay:
Blue dogs just seem to not work as well. That top loading the goose and getting it down there in your face so you're not hanging up with the other cast that I. Can definitely do some numbers.
Steven:
Yeah, get down there.
Jay:
I'll just toss that one.
Steven:
Out there for everybody. Well, Kerry, how how? What's the best way? There's you care if I give out your phone number if people get a hold of you, the one going to.
Jay:
Up. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Just that straight call. Preferably call. If I don't answer, just little wasting. I'll get back to you.
Steven:
I have to meet me and Cody's. A great guy. It is 717-585-9359. Again, the number to call for Cody and uncle in Central PA is 717-585-9359. Long distance charges may apply.
Jay:
1/7.
Steven:
Sorry, no, it it's to call me.
Jay:
Ah, we keep it silver around. Here we keep it silver.
Steven:
And it's a. Cool opportunity. I mean, I know a lot of people are, you know, always thinking about rivers. And I know you're a heck of a river angler man. Be a cool trip for somebody. We'll check in on it. Definitely is, of course, of the winter here and it's great resource to have another little region. Covered there. So we'll check in and thanks for being on.
Jay:
Sure, bud sounds good. Appreciate you take.
Steven:
What do you think, Jay Bird, you geared up. You you, you think in shallow water? Now that guy knows you stuff. Yeah, man. You're your your river dude yourself. And a lot of the lot of the stuff. Yeah. What do you do? Sometimes your license plate says river dude.
Jay:
That was awesome. Yeah, pretty cool.
Jay:
Sometimes.
Jay:
Love it. How would RVD do you like? Yeah, yeah, there's not enough room on a normal place. It's all like different, you know, like symbols. And you're like, two people get it. The rest are like. River made for.
Steven:
What does that mean? And you've told them both? River. My numbers over over. Dude, you always will be. Always has been. Now you know it's interesting to hear. Hear about other things, Jay and you know. Yeah. So you're going from there and speaking about other things. If we're doing it, might as well. Let's let's just find out the lay of the.
Jay:
Oh yeah. Yeah. Not.
Steven:
Man here.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Let's call Freddy. Let's do it. What do you think? Absolutely. Well, what would fall be like without bothering Freddy? Freddy, how goes it? My. Friend.
Speaker 4
It's going good, friend catching some fish.
Steven:
Still, fishing, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 4
It is for November 17th, absolutely.
Jay:
Hi.
Steven:
Now I I talked to Krieger, talked to buddy in PA this week. It's bizarre, you know everybody, but you're able to capitalize, man. How's the
Speaker 4
Like man, it's been, it's been fairly good. I mean having opportunities, I don't know. Out of my. Last four trips I've had opportunities, multiple opportunities in each trip. We put some fish in the put, you know, put fish in the boat.
Steven:
Nice.
Speaker 4
Every trip out of the last four guide.
Steven:
That's all you can.
Jay:
Do.
Steven:
Can't, can't ask, can't ask for more than that? I asked Craiger this earlier. Well, he'll be later on the show by talking to him before I called you. But how late are you going to go? What?
Speaker 4
So that's all we can do.
Steven:
Thought.
Speaker 4
Well, my boat's not put away yet. It just depends on weather and you know, I mean, I'm gonna I'm.
Jay:
Right.
Speaker 4
Gonna lose my boat out till. I can't put it in somewhere.
Jay:
You.
Steven:
Yeah, just be down. Are you fishing? What, like, what's your game plan right now? You fishing big water, small water. What's kind of the thought of, like, OK, you're trying to get some of these mid, mid November going into late November.
Speaker 4
Know when everything falls over.
Steven:
River Muskies is a big water Clearwater, what's kind of. Working for you.
Speaker 4
Ohh it's kind of been tannic. Water for me. I don't. My theory is from some of the people that I've learned some things you know about musky fish, you know, don't leave fish to find fish. So in all honesty, I've been kind of fish in the.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 4
Same. The same lake the last four times. I mean, because all of the. Clients that I've had, they don't care bigger small. They like them all. So that's what my client said the other day. So.
Steven:
How come you can't go big or small? You like them all? Yeah. It can't go wrong there and you know. Which, if you know, I know you're getting for some good ones now. You called me the other day and you had a bizarre catch. What's going on?
Speaker 4
So I was with my my two clients and I fished with for two days. And we're we were halfway through the the day and we fished this one Bay, we'll call it Johnson Bay. We come out of it out. Of Johnson Bay.
Steven:
Ah.
Jay:
And.
Speaker 4
All sudden my clients like look at that. Bobber right there. Like Oh yeah, yeah. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a straight bobber, and so around.
Jay:
Yeah, right.
Speaker 4
The middle of the lake and.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 4
Also, when I start driving towards it and it starts going down, I'm like what the heck I'm like, well, there's a fish on it, you know, no one, no one, no one. Else. On the lake all day. Right. So it's like, what the heck, yeah. So we get up to it, and here someone's lying snapped and the bottle was still attached. And I would assume that the fish. Probably just buried down and went to the bottom when they lost the fish when those people. Lost the fish and all of a sudden here there's like a 3738 inch musky on the end of it on a sucker. And I I it was kind of crazy. I mean, I I'm young in the in. The guiding industry. In the world.
Steven:
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 4
Quite bizarre. I mean I I've so I called every person I know and I've come across some people that I've seen it, but they've never actually caught up to.
Steven:
Ah.
Speaker 4
The fish to and got him off and.
Steven:
And got him.
Speaker 4
He swam away. So let's keep our fingers crossed that he's.
Jay:
OK, I got.
Steven:
Is it?
Speaker 4
To flush the rug out of his. Mouth.
Steven:
Is it a catch? I mean, that's the question. It's funny. It's like you go. Hmm. I know, auntie. I know.
Speaker 4
I'm not going to that side of the fence, but they they were looking the muskie guys were looking down on me because later that day we had been blank. The first part of the day and then later that day my client caught a 40 incher on a cracking with.
Steven:
Nice.
Speaker 4
With the Y with glove tail. Yep, we have the Grove hit bottom making contact because a lot of fish seem to be on the bottom right, making contact and popping up, popping up and snapping.
Steven:
What good always turn to grab just what was he ripping or what was he doing? Uh-huh. Not pop nice, two Bish or RIP fish. Was he like? Sideways or up and down.
Speaker 4
Up and up and down.
Steven:
Up and down. Very nice. And that big, that big tail. I mean, I'm the grub kind of style that's.
Speaker 4
It throws so much water.
Steven:
Throws a ton of water. Just.
Jay:
I mean, sorry.
Speaker
I'll be.
Steven:
I'll be honest with you, I've I've been fishing and you know colors. That's not a color thing. But I love that walleye. It's obviously I painted it. Of course, like it, it's kind of my fave, and I've been doing the grub tail pretty similar. And just like pop and just let it just let it hang extra extra hang because it's it's grab, it grabs a lot of water and it just is like a huge visual, you know, it's I'm with you. That's cool, man. That's funny. But that at least you got that fish saved. That's that's cool, you know, you know.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. And and then we were then. We were blessed a little bit later. And we got. A. A 42 1/2 inch muskie for a man not a sucker. So that was that.
Steven:
Hey. What's this? What's this sucker you.
Speaker 4
Was a good day. I like running the 12 to 14 inches.
Steven:
Yeah. Go, go big or go home.
Speaker 4
You know nothing too much, so you know, I mean some of the. Ones we got. Inside the shop are, you know, 16 to 20. I mean, for crying out loud. I could cripple them.
Steven:
He could ride him. Yeah, ride them to work. Well, that's the thing. We've talked. I've talked about on the show before. Guys are coming. You got any 24 inches or bigger?
Speaker 4
Uh-huh.
Steven:
You're like. No. Why? What? Yeah, they're going. They're going over to Wildcat with a 24 inch sucker, you know.
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I the last time. I had one of those Fred. It was like it had me trip. I had a I wouldn't say it's 24. I'd say he's probably like 20, you know, 18 to 20, just a big old beefy son of a gun.
Jay:
3rd.
Steven:
It's like out of the corner of my eye, the rods moving so much I just can't pay attention to anything else because he's just going bananas. You're like they're a fish there now. It's just just the sucker, just we, you know, if you get skunked with the sucker that big, you can just let the clients fight the sucker in, you know what I'm saying? Put a 200 yard.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Steven:
200 feeding blind out there and let the client fight the sucker. Oh, you got one looking there.
Jay:
What? What, what?
Steven:
What kind of staging are you saying? You said you saw some? Fish on bottom. Is that deep? Is that deep under deep? Relative but are. We talking like.
Speaker 4
Probably probably like 20 feet of water. 1718 is where I'm I'm have I got my boat position that I pulled out. I'm kind of bad for them because the Cisco still haven't fully spawned yet and the white, you know, I wasn't fishing a lake that has white fish.
Jay:
- Yes.
Speaker 4
In it. So you know, so. The Cisco still haven't fully spawned. They're starting to this. You can start seeing them sliding up the weight that was on you had Cisco on it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 4
But you can see them starting to slide up. But they're not quite there yet.
Steven:
Yeah, it's, it's that's kind of wacky. I mean, when they do though, watch out, boys, there's going to be some big. Fish caught. You know this this late, this late in the year and they've got, you know it's it's not not hammered down with ice or anything of that nature. So you know the cracking did you get well are you throwing like any Bulldogs any medusas or is it just.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Pretty much thank.
Speaker 4
I was told I was throwing medusas. I was throwing two feet. Tough assault, heels and. The crack and I mean like I kind of have a query like I mean if you catch a fish on something, why change?
Steven:
What you're doing? Yeah, he he didn't go down there and tell his buddies. I didn't. I just didn't know on the on the rubber front. You feel like when it comes from a deuce. What size? Like the the stand like the standard Medusa. Are you going like?
Speaker 4
I checked. You mean no. The regular size or mid? I mean if you know if I.
Jay:
Mid.
Speaker 4
Have it just depends. On the client you know I mean.
Steven:
Right. Well, true. Good point. Yeah.
Speaker 4
You know, I I want them to last all day. My my true theory is if that fish is hungry, it's going to eat whatever you put in front of its face. If it's hungry and it doesn't matter if it's a mid reducer, regular Medusa. A Husky, I mean.
Steven:
Man, I and I think Wisconsin, you know, a lot of times on these bodies of water where you know every every body of water up there has its giant. You know, there's there's there's.
Speaker 4
If you're hungry.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
You know, there's some. There's definitely some 4 footers and 50s and 50 ones and 50 twos lurking around. But I think sometimes if if it got, you can swing for the fences with the mega Monster Medusa. I think if that fish is active, he wants a jerk bait, you're going to be fine with that mid or standard. Yeah, you know, sorry. Yeah, it's it's I. Yeah, I I typically try to save the big boy toys for Canada, you know? And and I was talking last week on the show about my my two pounder I have hanging here that I just it just scares me now I don't want I don't want to throw that any.
Speaker 4
That's that's my. Yep, Yep.
Steven:
Check the clients don't want to throw up. Much less me, yeah.
Speaker 4
Right, exactly. Exactly. I mean, you know, the client I had, you know, I had a a 73 year old man and then a, you know, a 50 year old man so.
Steven:
I I.
Jay:
You know couldn't.
Speaker 4
Really foresee it. You know, I, you know, this was kind of is what? It is, you know, and.
Steven:
Yeah, you can't. You can't. You can't. They don't last long when you got them throwing fricking pounders. You know, it's, it's that. And there's a time and a place, and then the Minnesota guys love those. And there's there's a reason.
Speaker 4
No, no they did not.
Steven:
For it so. Let let let me ask you this and I'll let you go here. But you know. Are you are like with your game plan right now? Is it you think it's going to change at all or like is is things obviously they're going. To have to cool. Off at a certain point, but you know, do you think for the next couple of weeks, does it seem like it's going to be that, that cracking rubber? You know, live baked combo I mean because it doesn't look like there's any major change. You think that still play for a few more weeks?
Speaker 4
I I would think so. I mean from what I saw going under the extended forecast, I would think it's going. To be the same you know.
Speaker
Just.
Speaker 4
I mean, unless if something drastic happens, I mean, we all, they're still talking. Well, 35 for, for for highs up here and going, you know, 3840°. In the next. A week and a half, two weeks, I was just looking at the extended forecast while I was at the. Shop. And you know, it's still right around.
Jay:
20° so yeah, I mean we're.
Speaker 4
Not losing a whole. Lot of water temps I mean.
Steven:
No, you can't. If it if it's 35, it ain't freezing. You know it. It it, it's got it. Gotta get that. Well, let me ask you this. If you've done. Have you been hitting any multi species?
Speaker 4
No, no, it's not. It is not. No, I have not. I have, I've I've kind of thrown in the towel on that.
Jay:
Man.
Steven:
I just didn't.
Speaker 4
For the season.
Steven:
I just didn't know, just from a walleye staging thing. Like what are, what are our croppies vertical right now everywhere it's like.
Speaker 4
Yeah, I would, I would. I would think. I mean, there's still, there's still plenty of fish to be caught and all copies and and and walleyes on that. It's just I have not, I I would say some of that that I would say.
Steven:
You're well. You're dialed on Muskies right now, yeah.
Speaker 4
Right, right. For the walleyes, I'm saying they're gonna be deep and and, you know, you still get them. But you know, you're still probably looking at, you know, 50° water temps for a couple of the lakes or upper 40s, I should say, for a couple of the bigger lakes. You know? Yeah, where I would go.
Steven:
One more question then, so if if the walls are staged deep and you're drunk, you're you're saying you're position 2018 feet and casting in. What? What's the what do you think the forage is that they're hunting down on those edges?
Speaker 4
You know, I'm thinking they're seeing, you know, some some walleyes that are on the outside edges. And I was, I was looking at wide scope and you could see stuff, you know, on the bottom, like, oh, that looks like while I was right there to me, you.
Steven:
Moving up like the teens.
Speaker 4
Know and or perch.
Jay:
Speaker 4
And like I said, some of the you know, some of the systems are kind of sliding up, but they're. Still, you know.
Steven:
Right. It's not. It's not the Cisco. Craziness yet so.
Jay:
Play play.
Steven:
I hear you, man. Well. You know, I've said it a billion times on here. It's like a broken record about being an odd year or a different kind of ball game. But sounds like you're capitalizing on it, Freddy. Guys, if you need something from the shop or trip, call Freddy. Go walk you. Through it so. He's the hardest. Working man in the musky business. So I think Freddy will run a full day guide trip and then work a full day shift. Do you ever sleep, Freddy, have you ever slept before? Is that something you just couldn't do? He's running and gunning me. Well, guys, you could get out there still. I mean, there's still time. Especially got time come around Thanksgiving. Any of the guys on here?
Speaker 4
Very, very seldomly, very seldomly this time of year.
Steven:
Or put you on a fish. But fantastic. Freddie, give him a shout if you have a question about Bates for my favorite people to talk to at the shop. Freddy, I'll give. It to you soon, brother.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Steven. Bye.
Steven:
That's some wild, wacky and wonderful stuff, Jay.
Jay:
Great stories on the water from the man, the myth and the legend.
Speaker 4
On the wire.
Steven:
Palermo. Yes, it's not just pizza, it's Palermo he is. Muscular skill must give rescue and now I was just giving him hell. Everything about call the shop. Let's bother. Just bother Freddie. Like Freddy. I can't make up my mind between these two different split shots. Every question just call and ask for Freddy. It's a it's a hotline at this point, isn't it, Jack? Freddy knows Freddy. Freddy folks. Call the Freddy knows all.
Jay:
Just. He's the heartbeat of the shot, he.
Steven:
Really. Is he? He is the heartbeat of America now. He's a great angler man. He's he's been kicking **** and taking names. He's a grinder. He's he's a grinder, Speaking of grinding.
Jay:
We're still fishing. That's awesome. Well, thank you.
Steven:
Another thing, how I could permit the permit this, should this week everybody's still fishing up there. Wow. So when will it end? Well, really. Really, you don't say? I'll be speaking. I'll be we. We got a hold of Krieger. Why not? I say it with Freddy. We're just going to pick one of his brains up there. Let's see what's cooking, baby. What's cooking? Cool beans.
Jay:
Cool.
Steven:
Alright guys, I've got Josh Krieger, Josh from the North Woods fishing report. All the fun stuff. Up here.
Jay:
It's.
Steven:
You're still fishing somehow. What's going on, man? What are you seeing out?
Jay:
There. Yeah. Hey, Steve. How you doing? Yeah, it's it's been a very, very unseasonably long fall. We're talking, you know, here, November 15th, the full moon in November. And, you know, almost every year the ciscos are spawning.
Steven:
They're good.
Jay:
At that time. And I can tell you right now is on some of these Cisco forge lakes and they're still in 50 to 60 feet tight to the bottom. So we haven't, we haven't gotten to the Cisco spawn water temp. So on average right now, mid 40s, forty 6. So I've seen as one is 48 and again we're we're talking middle of November.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Yeah, dude.
Jay:
And I know I was on buckets hobbin here just yesterday and the water was still green out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. LG. LG Bloom green. Yes. Really. Yeah. And now, I mean, it wasn't like shoot or shoot or dark green or anything. You know, I'm not seeing. It's like the pink LG. But yeah, there was still LG Bloom Green.
Steven:
Like algae, like algae free growing.
Speaker 4
In the water.
Jay:
And and fishing's been super. Here we've had a lot of. Fish lately that have been. Coming and looking at our suckers, but not. Actually willing to. Then I've actually pulled a couple of them off of the suckers by putting bats in front of them and yesterday and booked out and we had about a 4344 inches, 5 debating with weeds on it. Weeds.
Steven:
Well, what's? Yeah. What's? What's? Let me ask you this. Just because Jay and I have been going back and forth this week and about this week, but, you know, over the last few weeks, because it's just such a mixed bag, right? Just just what? What crazy.
Jay:
It it is and it's so variable from Lake to Lake.
Steven:
That's what. That's what I ask is like. So if bucket or are you saying you're seeing some color in the water and steal some weed?
Speaker 4
I know like.
Steven:
I I mean, what's what's the what's the motion in the fish? I mean, like, how are they moving fast moving slow. I mean what are you saying?
Jay:
Yeah, I mean, but. So. So it it's doing weird now like last weekend I was out on bucket top and again I've been out there a little bit here recently because the fish out there are acting like they normally do this time of year at least as far as where they're sitting. So they're not very, they're they're on the steep.
Steven:
Like as far as right.
Jay:
Lines, right. A lot of these other lakes. I'm going to the fishing even necessarily they're they're, I mean, like the Cisco Forge lakes. They're they're out in the open water still. And some of these shallow lakes, you know, they're still buried in the shallow weeds. It's it's absolutely insane. So, you know.
Steven:
It feels like we stalled that, I mean, at least down here it and it's like we stalled the last week of September and it's just continuing the last week of September. You know what I'm saying? Like there, it's like, unchanging, unwavering. I mean, when's the last? Let me ask you this. When's the last major shift in water temperature we like, so you know you hit that 55 market boom, like has. Has it been stagnated in those mid 40s for a while or is it? Just gradually or.
Jay:
Oh yeah.
Jay:
No, it's. Yeah. It's been a while here where we're running anywhere from like 45 to 50 for probably. Almost the last month now I've learned about where, you know, you saw some of the weeds start to die. You saw the LG beam come in and I'll turn. Over took place. And now literally for like a month, some of these lakes are still green. You know, we're still don't get me wrong. Like yesterday, the majority of the weeds on bulk, it's hot and they had, you know, been catching their dead. Dying. But you know, we did still occasionally run into with some fairly green cabbage weeds here and there. And you know.
Jay:
And explain was that.
Steven:
Though because you got a lot of. People here and you're. You know that system for people that have never been to bucket TOB, and they're not North Woods fishermen explore, explain that lake and and why that's so explain what it should be, you know, explain the lake a little bit what it should be versus what you're seeing. So people that haven't experienced that might get a little bit little more knowledge from.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
So yeah, buckets happens. Not a huge day. It's actually technically like 2 lights connected. There's upper and lower, lower is smaller and much shallower. I don't spend a whole lot of time out there, especially this time of the year. I spend most of my time on upper buckets having the bigger, deeper lake of the two. All said and done, I'm pretty sure the two lakes are less than 1000 acres combined. So you're not talking big water, but you know you have 5060 foot deep water. Yeah. And you do have some systems out there. So I have had success before, you know, fishing some of the Cisco forage fish out there in the past. And like I said. But I haven't even been bothering with that because they've been so deep and tight to the bottom. It's it's tough to target a fish, you know, 50 feet down.
Steven:
What's the? What's the magic temp there in the in? The North Woods or or? Or say system like bucket top or maybe like I can't Kentucky. Kentucky doesn't have. Cisco's does it. I'm trying to think of another Cisco.
Jay:
No ciscos, no. Yeah, no. Dig sand and long dolphin Phelps, North and South twin.
Steven:
Big scene, yeah. Fricking. What's that one up towards, Manny. Chain press, guile.
Jay:
Well, the manual chain has them, but a lot of the big deep clear lakes.
Steven:
But what what?
Jay:
Have them you. Know the whole lack of Flambeau chain all that stuff.
Steven:
What's the magic indication of take away the graph? What's the water temperature ciscoes are going to come shallow when you when you start like you see it on your graphic. I need to pay attention where the ciscos are staged because they should be. Yeah.
Jay:
So I'll I'll give a little piece of advice that not necessarily a lot of people talk about. Typically, your ciscos Strawn on western shores of the lake. It's not always, but normally the biggest concentration of stone and ciscos tend to be on the western shorelines of lakes. So I would first start by checking there it's always steep, steep shorelines. Typically it's adjacent to the basin where the deepest water is in the lake, so.
Jay:
If that's OK.
Jay:
When I'm looking at fishing with Ciscos, I want to see these fish in the middle of the day because when they're spawning, typically they spawn at night and yes, so normally it's the full moon in November and they will move up to two feet of water in rock bars. So obviously you can catch very big fish out of shallow waters at these times. And so during the day, normally I will have the boat. Like 20-30 to 20 to 30 feet of water, and that's where I'm looking for the Cisco is a little bit higher in the water column I don't have.
Steven:
Like, are they staged at that?
Jay:
Any tight to the bottom?
Steven:
Are they staged to make the move in?
Jay:
They're they're essentially staged. Yeah, they're they're moving it. Look. So they're only going to be sitting. Out deeper they. Move to like 20-30 seat during the. Day where they're. Staging, quote UN quote and then they move up. Even shower at night and then back out during the day, right? So I'm looking for when they're 20 to 30 feet typically you start to see.
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
That when the water temps are like 42.
Speaker 4
You know and and like.
Jay:
Up until ice out essentially or ice and I should say so. Yeah, it's been. It's been really weird. Buckets Haven does have some ciscos out there, but what I really like about it is there's a lot of really steep breaking shorelines, which is typical for fall. I mean, that is no brainer fishing those kind of shorelines and we're casting, you know, dead weed edges where you're dropping, you know, the boats in 20 feet of water or so. Right. A lot of the fish were either contacting out of the Dome reeds or right off the break, or the ones that were contacting out of the open water right now seem to be coming right off the bottom.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
I had a sucker out a couple days ago, or about four feet off the bottom. I really said, you know what? I'm going to drop that down. So it's about a foot off the bottom. And I'm not kidding you. I dropped it down. I went back to the front of the boat. Watching you on pan optics and. The fish came up on it like instantly. You know, that's the name of the game here. Recently the the looking.
Steven:
What do you? Have what do you have to do? Get it? Get get to eat. At least what? You're what's happening with you? Like how are you? What? What conversion? What are you having to do to convert right now?
Jay:
Not eating. The last fish we got to eat, Steve, came on the Figure 8 and it ate on about the 12th turn of the Figure 8 and it and it actually fired up. When when my buddy speed up, which again November, you know that that that's like a September 5th going around the figure at a dozen times and and.
Steven:
Just just up and up and up. Yeah.
Jay:
Firing up when you're going faster, you know, that's that's not. No, no, no, no, no. It's been weird.
Steven:
Yeah, nothing. Nothing makes sense. No, it's it's it's, it's funny. I I was talking in the boat the other day with Clint. He's like, yeah, he. He's from upper Midwest. He's not quite Wisconsin, but Illinois guy, right. He's like, you know, it's been weird. He's hopefully winter or see me. I apologize. I misquote it. I said, you know, it's been weird. Hopefully the winter will straighten out. And it was kind of dumb on my behalf because he went well, the whole weird, the whole.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
Years been weird about winter's weird too. And I. Went you're right. You know, it's like.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
For that wishful thinking, like it's gonna straighten out. Whereas. You know, I'm. I've been waiting and week after week for three weeks now on the the show we we keep talking about this and you know some of the adjustments you can make and I guess for everybody everybody, I'm. Talking to cross the. Board. It's just there's an opportunity to get in front of big fish, but it's not that typical. You're not busting ice. You don't have a spud bar out there and and they're acting different because this is kind of I want to say unchartered territory, but not something we're often handed for for that bite up there.
Jay:
Well, I, I mean, I definitely talked about that here this last week I said you. I mean, I can look back at my logbook, but I don't have a whole lot of information on, you know, 48° water temps in the middle of November on that just doesn't happen very often, so that is something that I've. Seen very often.
Steven:
Dude, I was.
Jay:
You know.
Steven:
Like I I've been hitting a bunch of different bodies of water. I went to a small, small little body of water in Tennessee 63 the other day. Josh, I'm like what I mean.
Jay:
It's wild, I.
Jay:
1st.
Steven:
Don't even know. I don't even understand how I was I was freezing to death. I'm, you know, is it cold day? I'm sitting here going. How hot was it 2 days ago? You know, was a.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
70 I hadn't been over to that spot in a minute. I was like, God, I would just, you know, and they.
Jay:
I mean we we're we're talking mid November, we have not had a solid day where it's been below freezing all day.
Steven:
When when I keep pestering Jay and you know everybody cause kind of the the lot of people are going well, how much longer is it going to be open up there? I mean, you know, I know a few people put their boats away, I mean. When do you when? When are you thinking about hanging it up? I mean, are you just gonna keep keep grinding until cause I I just think the opportunity is huge. I mean.
Jay:
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm.
Jay:
I'm still going out fishing, especially, you know, it's during some of those prime conditions. I mean, I was out all weekend here on the front room, you know, and stuff like that. So I'm still going out, especially in those prime conditions, you know, but when it's really, really brutal out there blowing 20 miles an hour and 45°, you know, it's tough to tough after it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Stevie.
Jay:
After a long season having fished quite a bit and Clark, you know, having fish, you know it's tough to motivate yourself to go out there and be.
Steven:
Nothing I say I'm not that mad at him anymore. You know? It's like it's that's that's guiding. Yeah, that's that's guiding. Yeah, whatever. You know you.
Jay:
Miserable, you know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, nobody was comfortable.
Steven:
Just right, right. Yeah.
Jay:
I can get some stuff done around the house today. You know, it's it's looking a little miserable out there.
Steven:
Alright, ohh, trust me, I know it's like today kind of ended up being one of those days for me. I was like, well, I need to grease my wheel up. See, I could. You know, I could we we ended up just doing a. Happy. You know, we got got got a fish when we're done for the day. And I'm like, yeah, stay but.
Jay:
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Sorry. I I just called Northern Lodge. I'm taking my board in for the 2nd $100 oil change of the year and they were amazed that I had $100. In a year. Back in July.
Steven:
Ohh, come on, these are rookie numbers.
Jay:
And the guys, yeah. I don't know. He's like he's. Like, damn people are left you for $50. On the boat.
Jay:
In the season, well, you know I'm not.
Jay:
Up here, just on weekends. Yeah. So, yeah, he's like, oh, do you? Want me to winterize? It, and I'm like, well, First off, I winterize it myself. So no thank you. But second like.
Steven:
Yeah, baby.
Jay:
No, I mean. We used to have open water for a while. The sisters aren't even spawning yet, like that's that's some of the some of.
Steven:
Chief. And it's fine. That's what I'm saying.
Jay:
Those big fish.
Steven:
And and what I'm looking at is is with the increased water temperature the the oddity of what it is. Right. Yeah, there's there's a bunch to be said about length of day and tighter bike windows. And that's. I mean, I I've been. I've been doing really well, right? I'm unabashedly. On on some definitely sunset and definitely like when it happens, it happened and it's coming. It's it's it's coming fast and furious. But when it happens, they're really moving opposed to like because it's one of those things regardless of where you're at, the temps are a little bit warmer. Water temp, it seems to be. So you know you're getting the heat.
Jay:
Steven:
It's like the fish are moving faster, but their bite windows are a little bit more intense, which is like that's why I keep asking my goodness. If this thing thing lasts until, say, the beginning of December, you got shorter days. You know, the mornings are falling apart. I mean, I think some people could really rock into some big fish up there. I mean, if you're out there, I mean.
Jay:
Ohh absolutely.
Steven:
What's the absolute let's? Say, because last year I hate to even go there. Last year there was not enough snow or ice to do anything in the Northwoods, right? It was just brutal for for the the trail, the guy, the tourism and yeah, right. So it's it's pretty, you know, but I can't recall. Last year a lot of people.
Jay:
The tourism, yeah, the snowmobiles and all that stuff, yeah.
Steven:
Going out that way, am I crazy? Like when? What? When did you, when did you hanging up last year?
Jay:
Realistically, I mean, I probably hung it up sometime in November before Thanksgiving. But realistically, again with it being as long as it was, I actually check out my backup boat in December and January.
Jay:
Hello.
Steven:
See, that's my answer.
Jay:
On on the river channels, we.
Steven:
And your lawyer?
Jay:
Had at the water all all.
Steven:
Winter. What's what's the latest you can go, isn't. It Christmas or something or. Like.
Jay:
The last Saturday. In December for Moscow, yeah.
Steven:
I sent. That's the that's the deal though, man. I mean, if you guys are up there and and you're itching, you know, and that's the other thing I was going to, I'm going to talk to you about Winterizing boat in a second because a lot of people when I winterize my boat, I can't go, we'll get there. But yeah, we'll see. I'll I'll walk you through that.
Jay:
He's gonna say.
Steven:
In a second but. You know that that opportunity again, you don't have to be out there all day long. It's a short day anyway and you go, OK, if it let's say, the majors lining up in the late afternoon, we got sunset right after it. Man 4 or? Five hours is all it's taking to just go boom, you know, and and really see some.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
And we we literally had two fish looking at our our two suckers at the same time. There was one looking at the bobber sucker and one looking at the down rod sucker you know, so like you're getting these windows where and and you have fish literally together. You know I've seen 2 fish together a couple of times on on the electronics here this fall. So you know if you do get that window where you're right.
Steven:
Right. I know, I know. You've been, yeah.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
Both those I mean that's possible. You catch 2 good fish very you know very, very short window. You know they're they're doing what they should be at least you know on on back to top in that that area.
Steven:
I know you've been throwing crackers. What else are you throwing, right?
Jay:
Yeah, John collections some mad dogs. You know, a lot of a lot of big rubber. And actually we've had some success Double D and Triple D's. I've always been a big fan of those.
Steven:
Yep. We talk about you. It's funny. It's funny. I I want to say his last week of the week before somebody asked about that and we did a video for the shop, just like a demo video on them a while ago. And it's it's something I forget. It's one of these baits. You just everybody was hyped on a few years ago and you don't talk about them a bunch, but I always have one.
Jay:
You know that I've thrown them with you.
Steven:
Now and and do you work on the? Are you working in a RIP Twitch, Twitch, kind of gliding pause? Just letting them hang thing?
Jay:
Sure. Yes and no. I mean, I I usually am kind of ripping it aggressively and then giving it.
Speaker 4
A long pause.
Jay:
And then ripping it aggressively. And a long pause. So I mean it's not necessarily that I'm working it and and that's probably what I like about the date is the fact. That I can. Let it sit there, especially the triple deal with it. Yeah. I mean, it's not going. To really rise, it's just going to sit. And so that allows me to really control my. And you know, the more erratic you're working it, I mean, yeah, you're going to get more reactionary strikes at times, but at this time of the year, I want something that's sitting in the face moving slow. And so that that's where those crankbaits really come in handy. And that's why typically, you know, if there's two of us out there, one of us is throwing a deep drowning. Thinking the other one, storing rubber. Yeah, because you're essentially covering 2 exact opposites. The rubber bait is coming up when you pull it and falling. And the Twitch baby is going down when you pull it and rising. When you're not so. You're really covering. The two exact opposite things that you're still moving slow. And getting down. Deep enough to where these?
Steven:
Fish are there? You go. Well, so you you can. You can go to the end of December there and people talk about winterizing boats. And 1st there's a giant caveat.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
Here I am not a boat mechanic and Josh is not either, but winterizing your boat is not that big of a deal. If you're thinking about and people actually. I don't ever like somebody's. Like would you guys? Do a video. I'm never going to do a video on winterizing your boat because I don't want to hear about it if. You screw it up. It's and it's.
Jay:
A little different to every motor. You know, stuff like that, but.
Steven:
But don't read. Read your owners manual and all that stuff. But I mean to be honest with you, you know, I've always found that crazy. Where guys where they take it in and they have to get in line to get it into the shop and the shop changes the upper and lower and they most places places, fog them up there, Josh.
Jay:
These are engine fodder.
Jay:
No, I mean I I worked at a Marina for a very long time. No, I was not a mechanic, but they had me winterized boats. It's literally like you're you're changing the like on a four stroke. You're changing the engine oil. Yeah. And and on a 2 stroke you're changing the rolling the oil and you're filling the gas and you're putting like.
Steven:
That's my man. What do they do? Upper upper right. No, thank you.
Jay:
Table and the gas. Gas tank and and that's it. They they don't even fog them up here most of the time. You know, I always get much more difficult to indoor and outdoors where you're pulling hoses and stuff, but no ones fishing out of those. You know, we're we're talking the outdoor. Yeah, true. We're we're talking to two strikes, 4 stroke outboards. They're very, very simple. And as far as summarizing.
Steven:
That's it. Right. No, nobody. Nobody wants to. No, we hope. No. Somebody is. Right.
Jay:
Well, that was. The biggest help in my.
Steven:
Children rising, rising start the damn thing, yeah.
Jay:
Opinion ever. When I worked at the Marina. So if you realize you're both there with them, you have to pay them to take it out of storage and summarize it. And what literally summarizing is just starting it and making sure it runs. And if there's something wrong with it, obviously we will let you know, but they're not fixing it for free. So.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
See it on the bill.
Jay:
The whole summarization thing this marinas are charging up.
Steven:
That's funny.
Jay:
Here is a complete scam.
Steven:
Yeah. Wait, where you're peeking. Behind behind the big boat industry is summarized dude, I can't believe this summer.
Jay:
And and you know. I I just talked about obviously I called more than edge and taking my boat in on Tuesday for the $100 oil change. Again, I could totally do that myself. The problem is with the Suzuki money, it takes 8 quarts of oil.
Steven:
Yes, thanks.
Speaker
And I don't wanna.
Jay:
Add. What am I gonna do with? 2 gallons of oil like I don't have to dispose of that. I might as well at that point, pay the shop for it.
Steven:
That's exactly how did you say that's I did the exact same thing. When I was running mercs and everything. Hell, I think you've been here when I've done it, right? Doing oil changes. Like oh.
Jay:
Ohh yeah. Ohh.
Steven:
Oh yeah, I'm sitting going. Dude, I'm gonna what I'm gonna do like, do you just get a 55 gallon drum behind your house for? Oh, you know. It's fine.
Jay:
And then you have someone come pick it. Up and yeah, I. Don't. I don't know, man, you know.
Steven:
Do whatever. Get Josh. Just do what every good red blooded American does. Dump it in, dump it in the storm sewer. It's just ridiculous. We care about fish. This is why we throw empty back in the day. You know it's.
Jay:
Yeah, there you go.
Steven:
Exactly back it out. I saw it online and it was somebody pulled up the old thing to do with your engine oil. I can't, it was like. Just for like what? What did we do with old engine oil showing to dig a hole in your yard and just dump it in there? It was from, like the 40s, you know? Yeah, just dig a hole.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
And dump. Yeah, great.
Jay:
Stuff. I mean, I'm still like.
Jay:
Go around cleaning up. Obviously I live in the woods, you know? So I'm cleaning up sticks and stuff all the time when it's windy and I'm still. I've had this house for four years. I'm still finding random garbage in the backyard. I mean metal. Like all sorts of stuff, there was like just half burned with burn piles all over. And it's like, dude, you come and at least. Put everything in one spot, like, jeez. Ohh yeah.
Steven:
Welcome. Welcome to home ownership. So whoever this is an aside, folks. Whoever owned my house before I bought a billion years ago. Just like to break glass in the backyard. Josh, that was it. Apparently that was. Let's go.
Jay:
Yeah, that's great.
Steven:
It's Tuesday. Let's break jars. You know, that's just like I've I can't tell you how many times I've been the back. Like, ohh, I mean. I'm sorry. You know the. The woes of home ownership.
Jay:
Well, Steve is not telling you guys, does he may not have remembered dropping a couple of bottles out there from the night before, right?
Steven:
Ohh, hell yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, you know me. Just chucking them against that. Raging. Chucking him up in there and.
Jay:
Alone.
Jay:
Shoot you and Jody.
Jay:
Stick around the little fire pit in the backyard. Yeah.
Steven:
Raging. We're. I'm real wild folks, let me tell you, I'm about to. I'm about as boring as they come. Josh Kidder test. But.
Jay:
Uh, yeah. No, that's been the same life, you know, you, you wake up, you go out on the water all day, you come home, you eat and you're ready for bed. Well, record a couple of things and.
Steven:
Yeah. And that I'll tell you that's the thing though, about the the back back to the the boat winterizing. I just encourage guys to do it because again.
Jay:
Are you done?
Steven:
It is a big expenditure. They'll charge you a lot of money from, I think a lot of. It Josh. Is like. You're not old guy like I am. I'm not that old yet, but. You get your first boat and you're kind of scared of it. You know what I'm saying? Like right and and. But as a guy. And the reason I bring this up.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
Is is a guide you. Can't always get into the Marines for an oil change or do all this stuff. You have to do it.
Jay:
Marine.
Jay:
Right, right now, I mean, that's the scariest thing about owning the fiberglass. Don't like being a guy.
Speaker
And you're.
Jay:
Like I can't afford to pay a Marina to wire up all my electronics, so I'm forced to now drill into fiberglass.
Steven:
You got to do it yourself. Right, you know and.
Jay:
That that's about the sketchiest thing. That's the thing. I hate doing the most, but yeah.
Steven:
Right. But with the. Engine. I just encourage guys. There are so many great things available online, direct from most of the manufacturers and a lot of good tutorials. If you're not doing your own oil changes and you're paying, I mean, I've seen the oil change places for boats where it's like 600 bucks.
Jay:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Steven:
And and and when you when you look at it and you go once you, it's just like anything. It's like learning to musky fish. Once you're comfortable with it, it's not this big, big bad ordeal. But when it comes to like outward maintenance, you know, that first time you change your oil, you're going to be scared. Crapless the next time you get a start up, but once you get comfortable doing it. It's not that it's, you know, I'm saying the more you do it, the more comfortable are opposed to it. You know, now, the oil's expensive. Like you said, the mount, the Suzukis take. But a lot of it, though. I mean, if you're running America running something, you know, my God, I used to Yamaha 2 stroke. I don't think I changed the oil in it in about 8 years, but nonetheless.
Speaker 4
I mean.
Steven:
You could you could in about 5 minutes. But I can't. That's just one nice things, man. I we don't. I don't talk about the boat stuff that that terribly much, but when you.
Jay:
Yeah, it's. Honestly, I mean.
Jay:
None of it is over the top complicated like.
Speaker 4
You say turn, it's for your driver, yeah.
Jay:
The video. I mean, even like I've I've put a new water in power in, not not in the Suzuki. But I mean, I'm not saying it's fun, but yeah, you watch YouTube video and then it's pretty much going to teach you everything.
Steven:
No, I hate doing now. I don't like doing that.
Speaker 4
Hot dude Diana.
Jay:
You need and you know.
Steven:
I I don't even. I think he was probably still in diapers. I'm not gotten. I had a old Merc. Right there, I had to do the impeller because I didn't have the money to pay anybody else to do it.
Jay:
Right. OK. Yeah.
Steven:
I could not like you just screwed it up. It wouldn't shift right. It was so bad. I was out there like you could you had to line it up, you know, obviously perfectly right. You got to get that. But it on that motor it didn't. It didn't like have a spline or something like that to line it up. OK, so I turned the shaft. When I turn the power and it's like you're not supposed to do that. And something was out of whack. And I remembered I just laughing because I remember being out in my yard.
Jay:
- Yeah.
Steven:
With musts on the thing, would you know how loud A2 strike is with freaking nuts on it? You know, I started before sunset and I'm out there like 5 in the next morning and I'm sitting here. My neighbors are gonna kill me because I'm starting this thing at like 3 in the.
Jay:
Ohh sorry. Yeah Nope.
Steven:
Morning seeing if you know what I'm saying.
Jay:
Thank you, sister.
Steven:
There's such a screamingly low. Now. Anyway.
Jay:
I've run shops access 3:00 in the morning in my garage. You know, making sure the boats clean for the boat coming up. Right. It's like, oh, I.
Steven:
Absolutely.
Jay:
Hope my neighbors. Don't hate me. They do.
Steven:
They always do. They're not.
Jay:
Muskin fish is actually my neighbor muskan fishes and was talk to me about the podcast. So sorry, we're all right.
Steven:
Very nice. Yeah, but, well, good stuff. I mean, we'll probably check back. The thing is this. We'll check back in. Obviously, Josh will be doing the the report, I'm sure here next spring and into the in the main part of season, but. The thing for me, it's just kind of I've I've said a few times on the podcast over the last few weeks, kind of uncharted territory, which is neat, you know? So if it stays open, we'll get you back on. Cause I'd love to. I mean, if if if you're targeting skis in December, we need to talk again because it's. Such a unique thing. That's the plan as.
Jay:
Dummy nodes. Of right now I just set it up. With, you know guys from down South, we were talking about possibly going the weekend after Thanksgiving, so.
Steven:
We go.
Jay:
You know, they can't foresee that we have ice at that point, so.
Steven:
Well, you know that it takes a lot to do it anyway. Well, guys, yeah, we we don't don't hurt your vote. Don't listen to anything we said about anything we said about it working on. I don't even know what the liability. We don't do anything right don't the but you can. Anyway we'll get you here soon, Josh all right.
Jay:
No, yeah, don't. Not yet. Yeah, sounds good.
Steven:
Yes. What do you think, Jay?
Jay:
The creator speaks.
Steven:
The Kreger speaks, it seems like across the board. Pennsylvania, I'm seeing it here. Everybody's seeing it. It's it's that, that wacky, wonderful stuff. Like I said, just, you know, keep it grinding. You just I I I've said it again, say it again. Then again, the the opportunity I've seen them. The huge zillas are out there and it it's that one time where you might be, you know, you're sitting there and Jay, you got a cup of cocoa, right?
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Imagine you're sitting there. You got a cup of cocoa and. You know, and you haven't seen the sun in three months. Your mouth tastes like gun bluing. You, you you appreciate that extra day of fishing you had. You know you.
Jay:
You can't catch him sitting on. The couch, Steve, you just can't.
Steven:
And you're going to be sitting on. That that you northern. Guys, you'll be on the couch soon.
Jay:
The couch is coming, you. Better believe this.
Steven:
Sitting there watching Gilmore girls or whatever it is you do over winter, what do you do today? Football's over snow on the ground. Wash dirty roadside slush.
Jay:
There's there's plenty of that comment you.
Jay:
Can imagine, although we didn't have any snow last year, so you never know.
Steven:
Just dirty roadside minus the slush. You're sitting there cold and the ice is frozen or lakes frozen over ohm. Horrible. Then you can come down here and it's warm. But no, it's it's cool. Like I said, I like. I like hearing about the different opportunities.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Let's let's cooking, man. So we will get Jay and we've been bad. Jay, you've been bad. Naughty, naughty lad. Jay ever. OK. Lad. We didn't do any Q&A, so we'll have to catch up with that. You naughty, naughty lad.
Jay:
Oh. No. Plus, for all that stuff going on next week, so yeah, it'll be.
Steven:
That's going. Ohh yeah. What is going on?
Jay:
A good one. You know, Black Friday it's coming.
Steven:
And it is it. Next week, it's 78 now. We'll tease about no. The passage of time. It's painful.
Jay:
Is this something? It's starting to scare you. It's adding.
Steven:
Up it's adding the clocks, running out boys. Tick tock. Tick tock.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
I'm a coming jaybird. Say goodnight. Thanks everybody.
Jay:
Is only.
Speaker 4
Same.
Speaker
You know.
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 358: Musky Season Wrap-Up with Danny Herbeck and Joe Cooper
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 257: Spanky Baits & Steve Herbeck
Transcript:
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast. Ajay. Steve. It's a nice day.
That's cool. It's nice day for a white bucktail.
Jay:
You ever thrown a white bucktail I have.
Steven:
Deadly the The The Muppets, Mups mups musky flash not to go see pig with Mepps.
Jay:
Is it how you say? It you're going to find us. But you also have Suick. They're from the glorious city of Antigo too.
Steven:
All right.
Jay:
So you know.
Steven:
What are you going to do? You know you got freaking Mepps. You got mups, you got you got.
Jay:
Holding this powerhouse?
Steven:
Stomach equals. What are you gonna do exactly?
Jay:
It is what it is.
Steven:
Yeah, well.
Jay:
How's fishing been this?
Steven:
Week has been devastating. In what way? No, I've been smoking them it. It's that seasonal juxtaposition that happens all the time. Where you going? OK, well, it's it's cooling off up.
Jay:
It.
Steven:
North, but. Down South, the the league it's it's essentially we're getting to the end of October, which is like. I would say a month behind you. Right. 5-6 weeks maybe it worked.
Jay:
- Yeah.
Steven:
So we're getting to that prime time, which is nice. Good friend of mine. Listen to the podcast. Sean sent me a picture. You got a really nice fish on a. A joint, a believer or swim with couldn't tell, and I smoked a few in last week with with like, you know, Shell Invaders. The joint of the Headlocks been to a devastating for me. And then dive in rise. Jay, isn't it always that when the leaves change orange and the leaves change red? You know what?
Jay:
Yeah, well, leaves are gone here, But yeah, I know what you're.
Steven:
They say you know. They you know what they say, get get out of, get out, tighten.
Jay:
Saying, you know.
Steven:
It's an old Indian proverb. When the leaves are orange.
Jay:
Their eyes work the shallow. Yeah, it's shallower areas.
Steven:
Really on this, we'll. And so it will. It all come together where it would like be two senses and diving rice has been good. A little bit of top water kind of kind of disappointing on the top well, the water's like high 50s.
Jay:
Really. Yeah.
Steven:
That's not just, you know, that did not that disjointed from what you had going on a month ago, right?
Jay:
- Yeah. You you've told me in the past that November I believe is a really good month for hot water.
Steven:
It it can be just depends. I mean, I've worn I've worn shorts in December.
Jay:
Candy.
Steven:
You know, so.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
You know you you break up the freaking tighten and you do the diving risy thing. I I've put the blades away, you know, hard baits, hard baits and hard baits. So.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
That's going to be the thing, not anywhere close to live bait, but that seems to be the status quo where you're at what's hooking up, what's happening in the the Northwoods.
Jay:
Yeah, Minnesota too. Yeah, I talked to a buddy there a day that fishes in Minnesota a lot. Well, he lives there. So that's where he fishes and. It's been doing good. Got a couple really nice fish this week on suckers, but not a lot of action. Not a lot of action, some up and down, weather, you know, was mid upper 60s here today. Really windy, too funky, just blowing 70s tomorrow, Steve. Really. Yeah. Another one. And then it's going to come back down to, like, high in the 40s. Later in the week. So Yep roller coaster for.
Steven:
Nay, nay, I say.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
It's. Yeah, it's, it's goofy. You. What are you going to do with it? You know it it it is what it is it I always think about seasonality as this don't look at the calendar. Look at the conditions, right.
Speaker 3
And.
Steven:
Don't. Don't go.
Speaker 3
What's with those little cover?
Steven:
If if the water temps say. It's warm. Well, it's warm, you know. Act according. So the companies, the goings, the musky shop, Jay, we have dwindled down to the very end of anything new here. Obviously the Magnus is coming out after the first of the year. Did we talk last week about the Smith lure Spoon? I think we did.
Jay:
- I don't know if we did, but I'll tell you what I think. They're completely gone. There's maybe one left. So we're trying to get some more in for all those guys that are waiting. I know there's several people waiting on out of stock.
Steven:
Yeah. Colors. They went really fast. Jody was came into the living room.
Speaker 3
Soon.
Jay:
Yeah, real big, real big spoon flutters. Great beagles.
Speaker 3
It's a bigger, bigger.
Steven:
And, and here's Jay Jays. I think you're a solid 5. Three, right? You're a small guy. Though real little fella and you're holding that up just a wee. You could put him in your pocket, folks and take him home. So here's tiny little Jay holding up that spoon and it's a big old spoon.
Speaker 6
No.
Jay:
Yeah, it's a big old.
Steven:
Spoon Steve, it is a big old spoon you got you could you could eat your Taco sauce out of that thing. You could use it. Listen, Jay, if you're going South of the border, you could catch a muskie on it. And.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
Use it as a mocha ******.
Jay:
Well, that is, that's great.
Steven:
Well. Yeah, well, you could, but you know you're you're freaking. You've been. I've been South of Madison, but now that's a big old spoon. Pretty interesting.
Jay:
Speaker
Jay.
Steven:
Jay wears A5 a size 5 men's shoe.
Jay:
Size 5 no. Yeah, you do.
Steven:
It's a special order men's shoes. That's.
Jay:
Did you see the new beanies that?
Steven:
Smart.
Jay:
Came in today, no.
Steven:
I didn't. Three more.
Jay:
New beanies came in today. You got them on the homepage.
Steven:
You know what? OK. Can I tell you something? A random fact. Do you wanna? Why? Why? Why? Knitted caps have the palm on the top.
Jay:
Ohh the palm. Yes. See. Don't. No, I don't.
Steven:
Uh-huh. You don't hit your head on the doors. Of a ship.
Jay:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Jay:
- Or slip on a banana and then hit your head.
Steven:
On the floor, well, life is not Looney Tunes, Sir. OK, it's not.
Jay:
Nothing to do with that.
Steven:
This is not a cartoon gotcha. Get get. Get it together, Sir, please. OK, I learned that from Netflix, I believe. Where where the.
Jay:
Lot to learn.
Steven:
There where it worth, the bitter end of things that are happening. So the comings and goings of narrow, we're going to talk about more height based. Got an interesting package in the mail today.
Jay:
From.
Steven:
Don James at Figure 8.
Jay:
It's one of those new ones I bet he told. Me a. There's a couple I don't know much. Yeah.
Steven:
There's a couple sneaky. So you go. Hey, our our fish on the lake and the Muskies ain't big, right. Or spring size downsizing or springtime downsizing post spawn or just bad conditions. Got the prototype for the mini meat Grinder boys. So I'm pretty excited.
Jay:
Many. No, I did not know about that. OK.
Steven:
Yeah. I'm excited about that. We have a a buzz bait about it. You've seen that? Yeah. I've spent about a year on that. Where you.
Jay:
Yes, that's that one I heard about.
Steven:
It's not something I use all the time, but when I need it, it's ridiculous or. And and people often think like buzz bait and say it's the most redneck sounding thing ever.
Speaker 1
This beat. Wait.
Jay:
Like, no, it's got that. Swing sure, but.
Steven:
But.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
They work is kind of the stopgap when when fish are following top waters. But they're not eating them. And and it's not something I use all the time because ohh they just followed you know, Doctor Evils twice. Well, guess what? We're going to throw after that. Yeah, you got it or we've got really thick vegetation, yadda yadda yadda. So it's just another tool done our working on it. We we've about got it where we need to be. As far as something I think would be the. Most. Perfected buzz bait for my ski fishing. It's. A big old buzz bait. Oh. Exactly right, exactly. You know, put on your UT T-shirt and, you know, let your gut hang out, you redneck. Crap it, but nonetheless. The mini meat grinder is long overdue. A lot of guys love the meat grinder, so Don's working on the mini meat grinder, which is going to be. Cool. I'm. I'm still.
Jay:
What? What is that thing? How? How many does it go? What's the weight? On that thing.
Steven:
Microscopic.
Jay:
Is it 1/2 ounce closed bit spinner?
Steven:
Bit I haven't done the weight on it. It's the small frame of the figure.
Speaker 6
Jay:
- It's OK. It's like a mini boss.
Speaker
Let's look.
Steven:
Frame it's a mini boss frame, but a a meat grinder build.
Speaker 3
- Cool.
Steven:
Let's just do that real quick. Let's look.
Jay:
That that'll be huge. That'll be really.
Steven:
Good. Well, I mean. It's it's.
Jay:
First I've heard of.
Steven:
Well, you know, I don't have to tell.
Jay:
You everything. That's why I tune into this show.
Steven:
Man, just to catch up. So it's the catch up. What's going on with actually we haven't talked this much because this week cause I've been freaking slammed. So the the Mini boss. Is a Oz and a. Half right, which is a a. It's not a bass bait, but it's big. It's a big bass bait. Yeah, right. Exactly. Small blade. So the mini make moving make grounder. I came and talk many men. Oh, many man. So you have the mini meat grinder. Which is designed just like the meat grinder. Which is on the 1 1/2 ounce frame with a big old blade on it. Downturn grubs, you get the tray where you got the whole shooting match there, which is going to be devastating as a a kind of a weedless getting in the thickest things because I mean, you know, Jay, I like big fish and cannot lie.
Speaker
Hold.
Jay:
He doesn't.
Steven:
Other anglers can't deny, so you know I'm. I'm kind of swinging for the fence, but if you're on this thing, we're like, hey, let's downsize. Let's really take it down there or you're fishing on small fish water. It'll give you the capability there. So Don will, I would think by the time. That the ice breaks next year we'll have it perfected. We got it. Dang near close. We're working on a bucktail, but who cares? Yeah, well, in in the world of muscular vision, another exciting bucktail Boo. Right. We'll talk about that at some point. I'm not like over the moon about it. We'll probably make seven of them for me, but the mini meat grinder mini, it's so tiny, Jay.
Speaker 6
Jay:
Well, I'm looking forward to that one. Be honest with you. That's all good.
Steven:
That I I I detect a lie.
Jay:
Yeah, it would be.
Speaker
Hmm.
Jay:
A good one.
Steven:
Empathetic. Jason, I love it now. So that's going on, man. The comings and goings. Yeah. You got beanies and a mini me grinder. Guys. OK, yeah, I'll get it. OK, calm yourselves. Calm yourself down. Right, take a chill. Pill. Take a chill pill. I know you're freaking out right now. You're in your car. You're just basically you're wrecking right now. So we're.
Jay:
Mm-hmm. We're kind of right in between there, Steve. You know, it's just like musky fishing season is wrapping up essentially, and it's a little bit, it's a little bit early for all the new releases, you know.
Speaker 1
But.
Jay:
So all you could do is. Hazel.
Jay:
Would be great if it was cold, you know.
Steven:
Here's some there's some hot sucker tactics because it's actually cold, but.
Jay:
There's plenty of time for that. It it it'll.
Steven:
Happen. Yeah, well, the problem is, all the boomers had to have their McDonald's meals and Styrofoam in the 80s and weren't paying the price. You know, days. What? What? I'd I'd said it to her back. Everybody's wearing white rein, and they're eating out of Styrofoam, and they've just murdered the environment.
Jay:
Yeah, I got.
Steven:
You, you know, I'm teasing. I'm not working. I'm driving an electric car or something here. Don't get me wrong. I'm just being I have nothing else to say. Anyway, Speaking of her back, I caught him up, gave him a bag of ****. Here it comes.
Speaker 6
- Yes.
Steven:
What up, Herbie? I heard you're smacking him up there. What's going on up in Canada right now? My friend.
Speaker 7
Well, the boat has been really good, but we had a switching weather here in the last couple of days and. With the the Fisher you. Know kind of lethargic. I mean, it's like today, for instance, we probably had half a dozen fish. 50 inches or better chasing baits and following live baits and stuff and they won't eat. Switch to the east here, but prior to that it was pretty darn good. I know Danny got a big 40 pounder couple days ago and I was getting you know.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 7
50 inch fish and butter to love. I only had a couple days. I had fish under 47 inches for about two weeks.
Steven:
Oh, oh, Wayne Wayne Wayne.
Speaker 7
And so so we're kind of tearing the hair out of our head today and yesterday we had a lot of high.
Jay:
Yeah.
Speaker 7
10s fifty kilometers or better? And so that's made it difficult for us to just where we wanted to fish. But you know, I've seen this kind of stuff before. It will turn right around. Unfortunately, I'm leaving. After tomorrow and heading to northern Wisconsin, so those of the guys that are going to be up there for a while yet, they're coming up later, I suspect it's going to be gained us this year. They're still just just books 50°. Can you believe that going into the first? Yeah.
Steven:
It's cause. That's what Danny had said the other week. Yeah, but she was like, well, this right now should be. I mean, you were tearing it up. It was prime time. But like, there's an extended kind of thing that's about to happen, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 7
Ohh yeah, normally normally we're close to the channels and stuff, you know, possibly between bases freezing up and packs the base and stuff and and I mean, yeah.
Steven:
Now we're close. No, no, no. I know you're on the boat right now. And and guys, he's actually. Talking on a cell phone out here in the middle of eagle, right. Yeah, I know you have have kind of mastered rigging, suckers you. You've been integral in a lot of different designs. What's with live baits being so prevalent right now? What are some of your like hard rules or what are you looking for in a sucker? Rig.
Speaker 7
567 off hooks heavy wire. Dangling all kinds of hardware on them when when we've actually had a fairly tough bite, but because of going to very small darkened hooks like 2-2 hot is the biggest. I'm using one hots even but then but them let them you know, round that gamma godson.
Speaker 8
MHM.
Speaker
Well.
Speaker 7
The owners, you know, they they bury right through anything and they hold the biggest fish to us. You don't need all the big ones going to lighter wire, 60 LB wire and just watching it after 3-4. Listen, y'all long line and instead of right under the boat, like most of my bigger fish have either been on a long line or a planer board away from the boat which tells me I don't know. Is it the scope or is it the boat that they're leery of? I'm not sure, but they're leery of something. And and in northern Wisconsin. Especially you know where everybody has been running live baits for 50 years. I think it's probably even more of a factor to consider. Stealth and distance from the boat and and things like that you know. So those are those are things that I think.
Speaker 6
Right.
Steven:
Let let me.
Speaker 7
Like are people are a lot of people are missing.
Steven:
You just said something and it's funny. Usually when we talk, there's little tidbits I catch on and it kind of sparks my memory. I've told people in the night in a in a nice way, not like you would say. I know how you would say to people, but. I've. Told people. Be quiet when the suckers are, you would probably hit them. With a hammer and. Scream at them. But you know. See if it's coming out the sucker, right. And restarts.
Speaker 7
This is this. I got great live baits, right? I got them rigged when they're in the water outside the boat. You can't even see my rigs. And I'll bet you a what though. Yeah. 1012 fish today that you know from past experiences on the grass, so we'll probably 50 inch plus fish. Problem beats for as long as 100 yards and not riding in.
Speaker 6
Speaker 7
So you know, and I, I don't know, I don't know what else I can do and and that then then you know and and the.
Steven:
Gotta be selfish.
Speaker 7
Got. It's have been you, you know, it's the way it is. When every the bites the windows are short, the they're biting on moons, you know, almost exclusively, you know. So you know it's it's just something that's going on. Things are off, you know. But but it's.
Speaker 6
Really.
Speaker 7
Now they just have been caught by being, you know, a little bit more cautious about how you do things, pay very close attention to where you've seen or or have big fish flower during the day get. Being there, you know, half hour before the moon and being an atom during the first half hour of the moons and stuff like that. Those are the keys right now, you know.
Steven:
Paying. Yeah. Game. You got a game plan, strategize and pay attention. What? What? What kind of things? You know, let's say somebody, because this is coming for for northern Wisconsin, Minnesota and some other places where where? You know what? What the winner has to show up here, right? It can't be 50° all.
Speaker 7
Right, right.
Steven:
But well, it'll be weird. Be weird, but we probably if it is, we have bigger problems than muskie fishing at that point. But you know, when you get in this cold water period or should be cold water, period.
Speaker 7
No, I hope not.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You know what kind of baits are you using to at least get those follows to locate fish? I think a lot of people struggle with locating fish.
Speaker 7
Well, you know, most of the most of the brakes. That we've been getting on the live baits have been 18 to 30 feet, Jack Clifton, who's a good big old fishing partner, mine and caught lives assisting us. American, the largest fish in Wisconsin Northgate. Over the years. You got a cell phone with me last week and that was.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 7
Over 53 feet of water, 18 feet down. So most of the time, though, we're fishing off structure 18 to 26 feet. Lattices are out laying out in the mud. And now in the last couple of days, even though the bites become tougher, we're seeing a lot more fish come in the same day. It's off the structure. But prior to that, even now. We use a lot of rubber baits. You know the the, the, the, that new sandwich. Cross those suckers been amazing. I think it's just this thing gets sick of looking at tubes and it's just a little bit different. You know Bulldogs, you know things like that. You know stuff that we can count down and work down and break you know. Stuff like that. So, but you know, at the same time, if you got some more cash stuff on top or something, you know like a. Like a founder or a grandma or a sneaky Pete or something like that. You know, for those because they can be anywhere, right? Like I said, you know, they can be 50 feet deep, they can be 50 feet, 18 feet down. They can be two feet wide or anyways in between. So.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 7
You know, you gotta kind. Of cover the bases, but most of the fishing. Comments. On the deeper end of the spectrum, off the shallow.
Speaker 3
And.
Speaker 7
They're actually kept that we're actually catching.
Steven:
Right, right. You have fish staging everywhere, but the ones that will eat are. Yeah, that and that. That's it's funny. I just ran. I literally ran to that yesterday. Were like, OK. Yeah, they're suspend those. We just trolled over them all day long. You're seeing them on paying. You're seeing them on everything, and you go well, the the eaters are shallow right now. It it just is what it is.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, and you and you kind of look at somebody and go well, Muskies have to be somewhere, you know, they just don't. They just don't disappear into thin air when they're not eating. You know, they gotta have. They got to hang out somewhere. So. But I.
Speaker 7
So I just don't know what's going on here. I've never. I've never. I mean, you always get some fish that lazily follow live bait or or lazily follow artificials and stuff or combinations up, but I've just never seen it to this extent. And when they do that, it just it. I don't think it's conditioning or anything. Like, did you stay hungry? Yeah.
Steven:
You know in in.
Speaker 7
You know when, when, when they bite? Only on moons and stuff. That's the the peak of the, you know, the well, maybe get him to, you know, become a little more aggressive. You know, normally we catch them all, you know, through the day with weather changes and and wind shifts and stuff like that too. Besides that also. And that's not even happening. So for some reason.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 7
This weather the maybe. The maybe the temperatures warmer than than than what the daylight hours tell the fish that should be maybe maybe something. All this you know put together is causing these. First to perhaps only feed that moves and or maybe they're feeding at night.
Speaker 1
MMM.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 7
I I I don't know know I'm.
Steven:
Do you think it could it be global warming from all the aquanet everybody used in the 1980s? All the hair, all the hair metal bands.
Speaker 6
Oh.
Steven:
You know, I know you're.
Speaker 7
Yeah, 59 it is loud line it is. It's muskie fishing. We try and figure out we cut some big ones here and there and we actually had some pretty good stretches in the last three weeks. Just the last couple of days with a shift in weather and high winds has.
Steven:
Eating. You're eating your quarter pounders out of Styrofoam? Yeah.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 7
Made it tougher. But you know, I think I'm still gonna get a few, like, take pictures with.
Steven:
Absolutely, absolutely. Let me ask you this before I let you get back to fishing the the the proverbial question when it comes to to soccer fishing hook sets.
Speaker 7
You know what I mean? Yeah.
Steven:
What? What do you do?
Speaker 7
Well, personally if I got any experience fisherman, I like to quickly set up to where the fish is directly straight down. I very seldom have ever missed a fish in that scenario. Other than that, if a fish is going, you know slightly.
Jay:
Right.
Speaker 7
Way at an angle and and and somebody you know can can do a real good hookset kind of rod.
Speaker 3
MHM.
Speaker 7
Uh. 45 parallel to the water opposite, so the fish is going. That's a good soil. If a if a fish takes off screaming. Yeah, it does. It does not just the swimming. But I'm saying takes off and doesn't stop that fish is running for his life. It hit the beach.
Speaker 6
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 7
How hard it knows it's up. Yeah. Do you take? I don't care how far that fish is away. You smoke that fish as hard as you can. Two or three times. Really. It it. It's crank it again. Because by the time you get to the fish. To to set the hook and probably will have shook the hook. She'll be shaking the whole time trying to.
Steven:
That's a great point that that's a that's at least for me, that's a rare one, but it does happen where they hit the sucker so hard to go there. It's it's like if they hit a I always thought like if they hit say like a blue gill, right, blue gills got a pretty dominant dorsal thin on it or like a.
Speaker 7
Get rid of the bed. Yes.
Steven:
Some kind of, you know, in a natural predation, they're going to get stuck, which is bad, and how they get them out of their mouth. They shake their head.
Speaker 7
Yeah, since there were an inch long.
Steven:
You know it's.
Speaker 7
Yeah, I'll do that.
Steven:
They're gonna Malfoy open, shaking their head going, you know. No, no, boy, no, no good. So that's interesting. Because like I said, sometimes you'll be fishing. Oh, OK. We just lost 100 feet of line before we could even realize what was going on. And they're screaming with the thing. So and. And you think with those, just blast them, blast them.
Speaker 7
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker
Lee.
Speaker 7
You got to you can't get. You can't catch up too fast enough before the most time before they shake it. But if they just go zip, they usually wanna go from 15 feet, then they start just slowly swimming for deeper water. Those I like to catch up to as fast as I can. And.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Steven:
Yeah, typical.
Speaker 7
If, like so, if it's experienced people, especially if I think it's a really big person, I like to be right over the top of right over the top. Oh man, I hardly have ever missed a fish.
Steven:
No, straight up and down. You just smoke em, so you know it's it's one of those things where there's so many dynamics there. What? What the what sucker rig are you using right now?
Speaker
What?
Steven:
Or how are you? How are you constructing?
Speaker 7
I just I just make. I just make my own. It's the modifications that will be rigged. You know, I make all my own. I use 60 LB. Wire. I take one out, two out owner gamma gases and use it towards and heat heat up one of. The hooks to straighten it so it goes in and under pin in the in under the skin and help the skin so the bulb holds the the hook there comes out really easy adds either rubber band that I like. You know what you know for ease of people when the water's weather's real cold, it's pretty tough to beat that somewhere clip.
Speaker 3
MHM.
Steven:
Yeah, pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 7
For most people, but but when fish are really, really tough, you can't be a black rubber, black or bond. You know, rubber band with the style through the nasal passages. It really is as clean a rig as you can possibly get.
Steven:
Now for our older listeners, what size Circle Hook do you recommend for an old-fashioned? Kill rig Herbie. If you intend to. Just club him when you him in.
Speaker 7
They get, they get thrown out of the boat into the water.
Steven:
Just get your old kill rig going there, boys and suckers. See Good eater sons. I'm teasing you. Anyway, I'll let you get back to fishing, guys.
Speaker 7
Yeah, now. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta get going. We got sunset coming up. You know, we we got a couple of girls that we gotta go try and dance with.
Steven:
Prime time. Absolutely. Well, her back is perfected. Live bait fish. And he's been smoking. Guys. Thank you so much.
Jay:
Jay.
Jay:
Yes, Steve.
Steven:
How I was picking on her back. He didn't like that comment about how much aquanet he used in the 80s, did he?
Jay:
Well, it's true. I mean, think about it. Yeah, it did more damage than any one person.
Steven:
Did did you know he was in a?
Jay:
On the planet, did he?
Steven:
He was in a Flock of Seagulls cover band.
Jay:
He was. He was.
Steven:
In 85 down to Madison, yeah, yeah.
Jay:
That's in between guiding too. He was working his tail off. You know, he'd guide during the day and then he'd play, you know, Iran.
Speaker 3
And I threw a troll too far today. I couldn't catch a ski.
Speaker 8
So. Away. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Jay:
Get away.
Steven:
It was disgusting. It was. They called him Steve Herbeck and the flock of Muskie Gulf. Did they? That's that's what I heard. I wasn't lying.
Jay:
OK, multi talented guy.
Steven:
If you were you, you my. He he really. Was, you know, he played the sousaphone in the band. You know, so you.
Jay:
Good stuff. Yeah, it was good to hear.
Steven:
From Herbie, though? Yeah, hearing from him that the the weather's so weird. I'm dude, we're teasing. It's weather weather. I don't care, right?
Jay:
It's always going.
Steven:
To happen. I'm. I'm. I'm sitting here going. We have our own weatherman, Jay.
Jay:
I wish we had our old.
Steven:
Weatherman, we do the Muskie weatherman.
Speaker 1
Did or do you need?
Steven:
I called him. Yes, here it comes.
Speaker 3
We're sorry, the number you have dialed is not in service at this time.
Steven:
All right. I gotta know. The weather's so wacky. Her back just said it's screwy. I had to cop the muskie weather. Man, how are you this evening? Are you on the on the broadcast? Steve and Paul, how are you doing tonight? Am wonderful. Anyway, screw screw is a good word for it. I mean you you could use 4 letters and make it a little more vulgar I think.
Speaker 1
Skrillex.
Steven:
Every any day of the week, baby, I I was just picking on her back. I asked if it was all the awkward net he used in his hair in the 80s.
Speaker 6
Good theory. Dippity do you do?
Steven:
You know all the all he was. At A at a Motörhead concert, puffing his hair up back in. Today, what's happening Herbeck just said it's in the 50s, mid 50s. As far as water temp in Canada, obviously you got a degree in meteorology. You knew some things about the weather, what is happening right now. It's crazy. It's delayed fall. Really. I mean, you know, we've had a little at least in. My neck of the woods. We've had a few. Freezes and frosts overnight that that have done some things for the water. Yeah, exactly. The neighbors out.
Speaker 6
There with the.
Steven:
The sheets covering the covering, the mums to. Come, come, right. Right. But yeah. No, I've noticed it, too. I was actually out. Not another weekend ago. And and water water temp was surprisingly cool. It was almost like this. Like, did we turn over? What did we do? Because it it was like mid 50s. But I thought it should.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
The warmer actually from from the weather we've had, but all it takes is a few nights. You know, you get some ******** freezes. We were down in the mid 20s, but we really just had a stagnant weather pattern, you know, across the Midwest and really standing up into the southern Canada, that's kind of put.
Speaker 6
The put the. The transition in the flux this year.
Steven:
That's in. It's funny, you say I I didn't even think about staggering, but I was on on the old Twitter. Some people called X now right. And and and they said from where I was at, there wasn't a cloud within 200 miles. Mouse.
Speaker 6
Yeah, it's finished. Yes. Yep.
Steven:
Literally, for this really weird like you've got a West Coast East Coast thing, you know is is it, is it a matter of the Hurricanes? What what what would you think caused this and what would bring things back into into focus. You've essentially had a a big Ridge of high pressure that's been dominant.
Speaker 6
Well, yeah.
Steven:
From from really the Intermountain West all the way into the upper Midwest up into Canada, Southern Canada, kind of on a. Southwest and northeast orientation and and and again that's that's kind of rendered itself to some of the hurricane development, steering hurricanes up into Florida because they're on the the front side of that Ridge or the east side of that Ridge. So it's all been the same. Whenever you have tropical cyclones, they mess up the the prevailing weather pattern. You need. You need like a kicker, you need some things to start. Start moving the weather and and and we're actually starting to see that now. I think in the next couple of weeks we'll start to. See bigger storms. Not only did we, you know, we haven't had the traditional colder fall weather in my neck of the woods in Minnesota and Upper Midwest, but we haven't had a drop of rain. We went 30 days without a drop of rain. Yeah, just insane. Not not what you'd expect this time of year. Hardly a cloud to be found in the sky. Same. You know which, obviously that's never good for fishing as well, but we're starting to see some things change up it 1 positive. Steven delayed ice. I know, doctor Randy, that that probably hurts his feelings because he's a big ice fan. But.
Jay:
The fun person right costs.
Steven:
Me money here.
Speaker 6
Exactly. Exactly.
Steven:
But, but hopefully you know, we'll have a delayed freeze up. They'll leave the docks in and that'll make maybe that early early in the mid November fishing a little bit like mid-october. Oh yeah, that yeah, I literally talked to a podcast listener yesterday. He was like, hey, I'm thinking about going to Wisconsin and, you know, after Thanksgiving. I'm sitting there going you probably could.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, you might be able to. I mean it, it won't take long once we, you know, get some of those freeze ups. But I'm not planning to put the boat away for a couple of weeks. I'm looking at the extended and I think I've got at least two or three more, three more outings to go which you know this this. Time of year. That's really unheard of. Yeah, I mean, you're you're getting even here in the South, I mean today.
Jay:
They.
Steven:
Obviously we have, like you know, 4550 in the morning, whatever, which is chilly for. Me ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, switch work right you. You gotta pull your socks up a little. They can't get much higher. Son. I'm over. I'll RIP holes in the end if I get them. Socks much higher. Almost paid. Almost pants season with a flannel punk. But you know I'm sitting here. Flannel song territory for you. And. You know, there's a few years where it's like, OK, the week of Halloween coming into this year, it's cold, it's not cold, cold for you, but it it it, it's knocking down, is that a matter of is for for I don't know anything worth of crap, but is it a pressure thing that's keeping like the wind out of the north of that that the. Movements out of the north buffered is there like a force that that that's pushing out of the South to the north or what does that kind of look like? Like, well, it's all you know this time of year. It's all it. It can't stay warm forever, right? I mean, the days are shorter. It's it's entering dark phases in the northern latitudes, Alaska and northern Canada. That cold air is building. You can see it. They just had a record snowstorm in in Fairbanks, a foot of snow. Why do you know? Why? Do you know this? I know, I know. Keep track of. But that cold air, you know, all it takes is northern latitude. Snow, Snow cover the darkness, the lack of daylight, that cold air. It's gonna build up. It's gonna build South. It's inevitable. But for now, I'd say just enjoy it. I mean, I hate to admit it, but we're going to turn the air conditioner on tomorrow. It's supposed to be 80° up in my neck of the woods, and that's same here. Yeah, same here. It's like 79 to 80, and you're just going holy Cannoli. But you know and Doc, where Randy can't get his natural harvest this early, which is horrible for his business model and. Exactly. And then how's Cliff gonna get out of town with the ice Rd. It's not. Even gonna form. There's not even an ice Rd. for Cliff, and he's now boyfriend Doc Boy Randy to get out of town on and it's difficult. Yeah.
Speaker 6
Exactly. So we'll say our prayers.
Steven:
Yeah. So you know, would you? Is is what's happening now, right? And I'm just, I'm teasing. I'm not climate change guy made a couple jokes earlier or whatever, but you know, gets just hot button. I like to. I like to poke the bear on the case.
Speaker 1
Right, yeah.
Steven:
Is it cyclical? Is it systemic of what happened in the South, how it's affecting the north? What would your educated take be on on why? And I know that's a that it's a mask. Yeah, that's that gets into all kinds of things. You know, it's it's it's no, there's no doubt. There's no doubt that the weather has trended warmer lately in, in fall.
Speaker 6
Yes.
Steven:
Not. We used to think of October as a cold month. It it really doesn't feel that way anymore. Although I'll tell you last year we had snow on Halloween where I live, which doesn't happen very often, so. It snowed at the. Tell you what, Christmas Christmas at the dump. You know, there's a reference to a floating trash heap, you know, at a political rally this weekend. I'm on the other floating trash heap.
Speaker 6
Little survey north.
Steven:
So yeah, so people can draw their own conclusions. I think the jury's still out on it. You know, people have people have stolen that narrative for political and other reasons, so I won't even go there. But.
Speaker 3
Right.
Steven:
But the trend, the trend of late is. Warmer.
Speaker 6
But it still.
Steven:
Gets pretty damn cold where I live every year, so I am not. I'm all for it. I guess that's where I'm at because, you know, whatever causation is not my problem and I won't. I won't be alive for it. So I'm not going to worry.
Speaker 3
That's where.
Steven:
Worry about it, right? You know, but you know, like you said, I mean, as a kid, I grew up. It's like, OK, October was. It I remember waiting for the bus and I'm not talking about ZZ Top waiting for the bus. I'm sitting there chattering my teeth going kill me now, you know.
Speaker 6
Or.
Steven:
Crisscross you missed.
Speaker
The bus.
Steven:
Chris cross. Ohh Dang. Anyway, wow. But you know it. It was far colder then. When? What I'm going for is like, you know, is is is Southern motion. You know? Whatever. Not a letter question don't care necessarily. I'm sure that somebody is sitting in pill Waukee right now.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 6
Making them mad.
Speaker
But.
Steven:
Making them mad. But you gotta look at. It as a as a whole. Your prediction? You're like the Jimmy the Greek of weather right now, right? You're doing your best. You're in Minnesota. How long do you got?
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Steven:
Before the ice comes. There'll be ice. All we need is 11 decent snow event and then you know you get snow on the ground, you get the long nights. It'll happen. I I I think we're probably in line for ice around Thanksgiving. OK, get it done. Now is what you're saying, but that's a that's actually a big that should be a big opportunity though, like you said, that's that's two. What is that 3-4 weekends?
Speaker 6
Yeah, get it done down and enjoy it.
Steven:
Yeah. I mean, yeah, you at least got three weeks. You know, I've I've been looking at some of the longer range stuff and the pattern, the pattern looks a little more active, but there are hints at at some warm, a warm period around Veteran's Day as well. So you know, the question is, I mean, and this is for you, this is where you make your money. But but what does it do for the? Wait, what do you? Throw I. You don't for in my opinion, you where you're at with. Excuse me, Minnesota, right?
Speaker 6
Yeah, I'm Minnesota.
Steven:
I'm going to put crash test. Dummies. My my cousin Eddie, right. I'm going to get my nephew. That's three years old. A monkey with a hat on. I'm going to get every human being.
Speaker 6
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Quote UN quote in the boat. Troll when I troll 12 inch headlock as many bases in the water as I can get, I'm going to get on the outside brake and kind of comb that from like 5 to 15.
Speaker 6
- Yeah.
Steven:
You know, get out there and freaking was. Dying weed lines and just just hit it and. Well, how fast? How fast are?
Speaker
You driving the boat?
Steven:
Steven. I've I've been with you trolling, so I know what it's like. You're you're, like, left. I mean, it's imagine. Imagine the drunk driver folks. That is the calling pattern. The the throttle. The throttle is is, is, is real and and the the steering wheel is is your motion so.
Jay:
You will. That's it.
Speaker 6
Right.
Steven:
Or do you remember how many baits did we lose that day and everybody's looking me like he doesn't even care? Know, but I I still have a bruise from from the rod snapping on that one. So. I when I troll ID. Drive it it. It's like you know.
Speaker 6
That was an abusive day, I think.
Steven:
You yelled at me later that day, too. Hope I did, I hope I did.
Speaker 6
Yeah, I was. I was. I secretly enjoyed it.
Steven:
What you used to, so you're used to, but I'm a soft touch, but it's. The the erratic Ness of that is obviously creating lifts, falls, dips and darts, right, I think. I think the kiss of death and trolling is like we're going to troll this Bricklin and this straight line, which is like completely non organic.
Speaker 6
Exactly. Yep, Yep. Hmm.
Steven:
If I'm where you're at, ohh I'm going. To.
Speaker 7
You know, I had heard you preach it before. Yeah, I've heard you.
Steven:
You're gonna catch the spread, yeah. Preach it before, but to witness it was different like. Dude it.
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I had. I called the Coast Guard and I was like, is it legal to have a cheater knob on your steering wheel? Like what? And I was like, OK, there's no law against that. I have, like, what truck drivers would use to slide dock boy Randy over closer to him on the steering wheel when they make a left. Right. I think that's that.
Speaker 6
Yeah. Nice.
Steven:
Thing is, what the boomers would call a neck or knob because you used to be on the neck with your girlfriend while you were driving your car. Well, you do what you gotta do. But yeah, I got the Necker knob on there and it it.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
It's erratic it. It's like I when we had hit stuff and like we've we've trolled together, I'm going alright we're going to hit what?
Speaker 8
Right.
Speaker 6
Yes.
Steven:
And I back it down a little bit and pray it floats out. And if it didn't, you break it off and you go well. Next tie another one on. You know, highly aggressive trolling, and I was there for it.
Speaker 1
It it's.
Steven:
Well, that's something I don't talk about. A lot of the podcasts of. Like if I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1
I'm a highly aggressive.
Speaker 3
Like, that's like some.
Steven:
Boomer like I'm wearing AT shirt. That's like, don't mess with me. I'm a grandpa on the back. Like I like garlic bread and Donald Trump, you know?
Speaker 1
Paul.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
An error that says I was. Right, exactly. You just got this this kind of like this motif. If I'm gonna buy that like I troll with reckless abandoned, I might hit a rock with the motor, right? I I'm trying to make. And the one thing I think that you're it's resonating with you. We went in front of this island and there's this.
Speaker 6
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Giant rock.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
I think I broke broke off 2 bats in row three. OK, OK. And I turn around, tie on three want.
Speaker 6
It was three, yeah.
Steven:
To go, let's do it again. Right. I'm a glutton for financial punishment.
Speaker 6
Yes.
Steven:
But you go.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
This is what it takes. Where dude it and also too. I mean we're talking hybrids. Done.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Steven:
The three-point bait check. There was No 3 point. There was one bait check. Everything's on the bottom. Forget about everybody. Yeah, and. And we're not talking like your standard deep water troll. This is like changing terrain, hitting rocks. I mean, you, you are finding the hidden, the hidden fish.
Speaker 1
Through town, yeah.
Steven:
Praying that they hit, but yeah, you know, just just willing to. You know it at a certain point you go well. I'm willing to take the knocks. Yeah, I I it is what it is. You know it's you go from Weatherman to freaking karate. Gee, instructor like you, right, you know.
Speaker 8
Aye.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Steven:
I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take some knocks doing this, right? Your your black belt instructor. But it's. They'll be. Some hits. Yeah, it's, it's. But it's a high risk.
Speaker 6
High reward.
Steven:
Right, exactly. And I'm saying that, you know, kind of in the same way you're thinking when you go well, I get, I get to whip some ***, but I get my get my ***** whipped a little bit, you know. So so basically. What you're trying to say is 3.3 mph. Is that what you're? Yes, that it will be 2.4 now.
Speaker 3
So I have.
Steven:
A war thumb. So if the temp is five, I'm below 5.
Speaker 6
Yeah. OK.
Steven:
Right. You never go Buffalo, which is in general, right. So I want to be 3:00 to 5:00.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 6
Steven:
Now that means my turning radius as well though, which is 3 point. Five on a hard turn can get. Up to five. And and it's a later question.
Speaker 6
- Yep. On on the hard side. Yep.
Steven:
On the hard side, which is. How do you how do you figure out what 5 is on the hard side? So what he's saying by the hard side is so let's, let's say we're going in a straight line. And. You know, you're driving down the right list in the podcast right now, or you're you're passed on the Florida, Texas Roadhouse. Whatever it is that you listen, you're you've had 13 at Chili's and they're kicking me out. Whatever is right ahead of you.
Speaker 6
He's there on Saturday. Choose your own event.
Steven:
As we turn. Hard port, hard starboard. That rod will dig in. You've gotta realize what that 5 looks like. So you've gotta take. Let's say we're throwing, craves, or grandmas or headlocks or whatever, right? What does 5 look like on the rod?
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
Not 5 on the speedometer.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
It's an action thing.
Speaker 6
OK, yeah, more bounce.
Steven:
So well, when when let's say let's say we take a 10 inch headlock, 35 feet long.
Speaker 6
Maybe.
Steven:
It looks different as far as rod angle and dig towards the surface. And and and the amount of bend at 5 miles an hour. So you gotta test it in a straight line. Go. That's 5 miles an hour. Right. So if I'm going straight and dead straight, one bearing 1 heading, that's what 5 looks like.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I want to make fives on my turns, so I want to contact cover and structure at about 3:00.
Speaker 6
Move.
Steven:
But what I want the rod to look like 55 when you're on the turn. OK, I get it. You've opened my eyes.
Speaker 6
On.
Steven:
You see what I'm saying? Where it's like, which is we make initial contact, which is. I got your attention. Hello.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You're following me, but on the turn subsequently, after making contact where I think a muskie will be, I want nothing more than A5. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that's deep. Well, I need. I need a hobby. But when? When you're this far down the ramp. Ohh, you're going. That's yes.
Speaker 6
Have you considered music?
Steven:
Yeah, you know what? I'm. Picking up crocheting this week, I've. I found I found a support group that I'm going to get with and they're going to talk to me about my. Problem. So anyway, well, the Muskie weatherman, he, he he chimes in yet again.
Speaker 6
Awesome stars.
Steven:
Which one? Huh. Happy to be a part of it, Steven, anytime. To five stars the new. Chat pile album. That that's a. That's a four nine for me, the four nines. It's right. I'm live. Oh, I I got rattling speakers in the car, buddy. That's that's good to hear. I I mean you got to dial down the enthusiasm. Sometimes I want to run through.
Speaker 6
A wall but.
Steven:
You know, on a scale of one to five, how disappointing is Doc Boy Randy as a person? Well, I mean in Crocs are not wearing Crocs. Alright guys, thank you. Muskie weather. Man, we'll hear from you again soon.
Speaker 6
Sounds good.
Steven:
Jay, how informative was that? I feel I feel like I.
Jay:
Went to school meteorology 101 plus several other numbers.
Steven:
Yeah, doc by Randy talk. Woody, I carve your name in the desk at school. Jay, I did and said Steve Hearts. Jay, is that weird? Does that make you feel anything?
Speaker 1
Oh.
Steven:
Are you dead? Are you?
Speaker 1
Make you feel me?
Steven:
Do anything are you? I'm dead inside. Sounds like a new cover band. JS. He's dead inside. Nothing but the hits from the band, the cult they play. She sells sanctuary once every sin.
Jay:
What's that seat one. What's that one seat? To the edge of the seat. Bree, what do?
Steven:
You say wow. You pay for the whole seed.
Speaker 1
But you owe me, man.
Steven:
Yeah, baby. Anyway, goodness gracious. Now it's interesting, I mean, the muscle meteorologist is highly educated in meteorology and and in muskie fishing. That's why we call him that. What are you going to?
Jay:
Do great job.
Steven:
You know, also like the band chat pile. Winches bout lead tailings and weird sock, but nonetheless we fish with dog boy Randy. Unfortunately, it was kind of uncomfortable for for both of us as as you can well tell, you know it's like. Youth. Dog Boy arrangement of these people to make kind of suck between your teeth when his name comes out. Jay, it's like you like.
Jay:
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, Steve.
Steven:
Yeah, close, but nonetheless. So Jane, we've been talking about the comings and goings in the muskie shop, right, comings and goings and what's new, what's cool it's, you know, we've talked about them so many times on the show, whether it be, you know, they're Bucktails, whether it be the whip, whip lash, you know, it's like that's a.
Jay:
Yeah, sure. There's always something.
Steven:
Donkey Kong of a spinner bait, you know like.
Jay:
There is.
Steven:
Yeah. You sent me one. I get my. Hands on, OK. I see where we're going. Here, you. See that? It's a tool. Yeah, tool.
Jay:
It's a.
Steven:
You're a tool, Jay. Get your hands on.
Jay:
Thank you. The side over here, Steve. Even more so, I feel about this big.
Steven:
Tool of the month, Jesse. But.
Jay:
Yeah, it's change that thing, but.
Steven:
That was so good. Sorry you killed. Oh. But you know, get your hands on some of these baits and you see where what what people are thinking so. And we had the honor the privilege to talk to Dan. Dan Moates Jay gave me.
Jay:
It's kind of a once in a lifetime. Yeah, it's a once in a lifetime event and it's just like who better than to talk to than Dan Moats, owner, chief designer of Spanky Bates Leonard Roll.
Speaker 6
Who better?
Steven:
Jay, Jay, we got him. Right? We did. We got Dan moves from Spanky Bates. He finally he finally picked him up a cell phone. Guys, he didn't have one before tonight. And here he is. Finally with us. Dan, congratulations. You have a cell phone? We gave him a shout. A Bay I've been really excited to see come back. We've talked about it so much. And and and it's kind of the thing that's legend and lore people ohh behind closed doors and the quiet corners of Rangers, they talk about Grandma AM 9. So is is if it's like you know you gotta find a crack dealer to get these things. Obviously, Dan, you you understand how relevant that bait is, you've brought back the M9 Pro, the M7 Pro. What made you do that and and and and what have you done to kind of make that bait? You know, available now kind of. Walk me through your entire thought process on on the importance of this bait for your trolling game casting game and and and what you guys went through to make that bait relevant again.
Speaker 8
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean. Years ago, when we owned Grandma allures right, we learned we learned an awful lot. We learned. We learned a lot of things on. Great base and big fish, but then at the same time we kind of learned, we learned some lessons on things that go wrong and and changes that need to be made. And, you know, being continuously improving things. And there was there's a nice gap here between the the time that we own.
Jay:
MMM.
Speaker 8
Allures and now.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 8
And we never put down the project of taking and making this. Eat better. Yeah, of course. Like the old days, right? The old M9. The old Magnus Strike M9 was the one that everybody loved. And you know me included and. We we use. These bases, especially in the fall like the M7 and the M9, the phenomenal twitching games we just.
Jay:
Absolutely.
Speaker 8
Got. We just got back from northern Wisconsin. On a trip. I had two younger guys with me, you know, reeling the machines and the one wouldn't put down the new wouldn't put down the. New at 9:00. He just just absolute big fish machine. It raised the most fish it caught. The most fish, it's a fantastic. Lure. And So what we decided to. Do you know? One of the goals was to take and improve that whole piece over time. Now it's no longer a gramma lures piece. It's a Spanky baits piece and we've taken that bait instead of, you know, injecting this like a hollow cavity injection. It's now solid. It's a solid resin.
Speaker 6
Uh-huh.
Steven:
Right, right, right.
Speaker 8
And it's a it's a material that we call flexor. And what that means is that Steven means that it's aerated, so it's got we're able to control the specific gravity of. The resin. Tickets poured, which gives us absolute precision when it comes to the times and the rise. Yeah, exactly. The buoyancy and the beat. So now but.
Steven:
Yeah. We were talking not to catch up. Literally last week. Jay, correct me wrong last week or the week before we were talking about.
Speaker 3
Hmm.
Steven:
Applications in shallow situations in the fall, we're talking about this Bay and how it is, whether it be a tightened sewage or whatever. But the lip of that bait and the buoyancy is so devastating. The dead and dying weeds, because if you control the buoyancy you've you've kind of nailed that, which is the RIP Twitch Paul. And that that, you know, it changes up this time of year, wouldn't you agree Dan?
Speaker 8
Yeah, 100% this to us. We were casting this thing and you were from over 20 feet of water and 810 feet of water. And yeah, like so. And and now here's one of the things too, right. Like one of the problems that we always had in the old days was that when you, when you mold the plastic hollow lure, eventually they start to leak. And then then you got all sorts of buoyancy problems.
Speaker 6
No.
Speaker 8
This now this is solid so. There's no more leaking. Yeah, it's got a, it's got a through wire. It's got a heavy duty like that 7, two that we're known for that 7 two wire through wire. Right. So now if a baby, if you know, let's just say you run into hogzilla and she comes up and she breaks the beat because she gets here.
Steven:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Jay:
It ain't gonna be the best. Yeah, she gets.
Speaker 8
Since she breaks the beat and then, but she still got hooks in her because the two wire. Holds on right, so everybody's big concern about that is, is over. Yeah, the new polycarbonate lip. Right. It's a it's a stronger material on the lip. It's a thicker lip. And it's also a design that we, you know, like in the old days we used to say, yeah, if the grandma lip breaks like it was a design. Where you could not. Replace that lip. And of course now in this new design, if that should happen, the design is there that we can. Replace the lip.
Steven:
Out. I've been blown away by these because I I've been at M9 fan for I I might. I'm sitting here in what we call the bait cave on the podcast. Right, you know.
Speaker 8
So.
Steven:
Is it is full of three generations of Muskie baits and plenty of M Nines and all this stuff for you. That that bait is is tolerant to a beating, you know 4 miles an hour. It takes it, you know, ticking and clicking it takes it where I didn't realize. And I'm kind of blown away that, that, that that is a solid, but it doesn't react in that nature, you know, because I it is a bait.
Speaker 8
Yes.
Steven:
Designer myself, I'm I. I never even thought about that, that the the intrinsic buoyancy of that air introduced introduced in the resin that's brilliant and especially like you said that through wire thing it reacts just like a hollow Corvette.
Speaker 8
Yeah. Yeah, it's a, but the action on to this fantastic, the rise on both the M9 and don't forget the M7, right? The M7 has caught and moved huge fish. It's got a little bit of a slower rise to it. Mm-hmm. But both of these find their way through and up out of weeds.
Speaker 6
Right.
Speaker 8
It's just a huge triggering mechanism and so we've had, like I said.
Speaker
MHM.
Speaker 8
We now we've. I think we have, I think, yeah. Jay, you got like 20 to all 20 and all 21 colors there and you know, here's the here's the.
Jay:
Yeah, something like that. Yeah. For those. Yeah. Picture that day too. It's, you know, it's what it is, is it's a flat sided crank date with kind of a high profile. So the flat, yeah. Yeah, mental style, but it enormous amount of flash. It's just irresistible looking in the water when you get that thing. Cooking and twitch and yeah, and.
Speaker 3
I I.
Speaker 8
Then one thing you don't see one, there's another piece here that you don't that you don't even see.
Jay:
Is that the M13 is right behind its brother, didn't take my wallet, Dan.
Speaker 8
M9 so like that's gonna.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 8
Yeah, the the O 13, like the M13's, already been prototyped. It's already been, it's already done. It's in, it's in production. This stuff here, though this resin, this flex resin takes a little longer to pour. So we're waiting on those. But Jay, you're gonna have those in maybe before the end of the year, but we'll we'll see here.
Jay:
Yeah, right.
Steven:
Well, you you hearing that you got a bunch. So just talking to me or you know get get in line behind me for.
Jay:
We'll take them. We'll take them.
Steven:
For anything that's white or walleye colored boy, so I promise you.
Jay:
That well, yeah, I mean, check them out. I I've got. I think I've got shorts out on both on YouTube and kick **** and Instagram and stuff like that. You can find them if you, you know, if you Google them. Right. Or you? Search for them right? It's.
Steven:
Yeah, absolutely.
Jay:
Underwater demos you can see these things. You know what they do so. Really cool color patterns. You know, there's some real standard type stuff, you know, you got your perch, your black perch, your fire map.
Jay:
It it's it's this weird.
Jay:
And then you've got some very creative new ones, too. So they're catching peoples eye.
Speaker 8
And we're going to continue, we'll continue to expand those. We'll continue to expand those really those kind of those cutting edge colors. Mm-hmm. As we go, we wanted to make sure that we started out with with good, solid base colors, everybody's familiar with. And then, yeah, like the napalm perch, right. That's.
Jay:
Yeah, that's one of.
Speaker 8
The. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yep.
Jay:
It's super cool.
Steven:
Yeah, super cool. Let let me ask you this. Just sheer curiosity and and and not trying to put you unspotted in any regard, right. I've seen it with, you know other flat sided crank baits or baits that have a small air capacity. Especially being a Southerner, if you can't tell from an accident. But. You know, I might spend the summers up in in the North Woods in Canada, you know, spring and all this stuff. It gets warm and. You'll see these small. Flat body crank baits that they they seem to expand is that new resin. Is that more heat tolerant? I'm just sheerly.
Speaker 8
Curious. Ohh yeah. So like when you used to leave the old dates like on the dashboard or you leave like a clear box like in your front seat of your truck, right? And everything comes in and it's works.
Steven:
They get a tumor the size of a golf ball.
Speaker 8
That's that is the drawback for what ADS. Plastic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's part of that. It's part of that. That's kind of got a low, a low melting point, if you will. And it's it's it's I guess it's subject to distortion where I don't think that the.
Speaker 6
- Hmm.
Speaker 8
Present you know the the.
Steven:
Tolerance is gonna be way higher.
Speaker 8
Yeah, the flex resin doesn't seem to have that sort of a problem now. It's a good question. I haven't really put it through the test right, like, I mean we haven't. Yeah, we haven't laid this thing out like, I don't know, we had him laying them all we. Had him laying. On the deck, on one of our trips this year, and I didn't have any problems with them, but laying on the deck. Throw it in your truck today for a a couple days or different story, but I don't think it's going to be any problems with it. I know that this stuff is it's high temperature already.
Jay:
I want.
Steven:
That's what. That's what the reason I asked is is not like I said, not to put you on the spot. But like you know, I've seen. It with whether it be my bait living livers tighten or you know, depth rate or shallow Raiders of Joe. You're the app with us or whatever. You know, there's kind of that caveat of buddy. You leave that thing laying in the August Sun. Sorry, however.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
It always seemed like the thinner the body, obviously Eric expands, right? So we have expansion. We have the expansion of the molecules inside the the in the.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
Actual plastics itself, but if there's really not the if the air in the density when you're saying a resin is so tight, where's it going to go and and resin is such a higher temperature process?
Speaker 8
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really. Yeah, that's right. And and when you and here's the other thing too, is part of the problem with that old school style mentality? Yeah. Of the two piece body. Yeah. It's it's kind of like sonically welded together or it's glued together. And with that process it's it's not. It's not a. It's not a quality process. You don't have a full you can't guarantee.
Steven:
Absolutely.
Speaker 8
The you can't guarantee a solid steam all the way around, so as soon as that air starts to expand, it's just looking for the the path of least resistance and it and it finds it and it.
Steven:
Expect. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 8
Goes that's right.
Steven:
That I've blown away. I didn't. I didn't realize that. But it's phenomenal. And especially for you know, my brain spinning now. But you take the M7 or the.
Jay:
Makes sense?
Steven:
M9 or? Trust me, when the M13 comes out, I'm going to torture it, which is making contacts with rocks on Eagle Lake, making contact with rocks on Wabigoon. You're not worried?
Speaker 8
Steve, how much would you say that your?
Steven:
Mind is spinning. You got me.
Jay:
He's getting excited. I.
Steven:
Can tell how? Dude, they're Jay. He's starting to drool. Yeah, I'm starting. The problem is this. That's the southern thing. That's all you know. Do you know why we drill? It's the gaps in our teeth. It lets it out.
Jay:
It is.
Speaker 8
Summer summer teeth.
Steven:
This summer too, summer there summer going myself and.
Speaker
You know.
Jay:
My fan, you know, a lot of people for, for, for somebody that's never walked into the muskie shop. Up and walk down. I don't know. What do you want to call it? Aisle 2 and.
Steven:
Jay:
Singers, it seems. Speaking something just because I don't know off the top of my head, what do we carry 1314 different cocktail models, 30 colors deep of each or something? I mean, it's you have a massive lineup not to change.
Speaker 8
Yeah. Yeah, it's like.
Jay:
Curious here, but I was just thinking. I mean, that's your your bread and butter. Anyone that's ever heard of Spanky Bates knows that you could describe better for me. But they're heavy duty, heavy blade. Innovative, I would say double blades are probably your Forte as well. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's where it all started for us.
Speaker 8
Right. I mean our.
Jay:
Our that was that was the true beginning was double bladed flashable.
Speaker 8
Beginning was was top. It was right. Yeah. Tidy was top order bats in 2005 and then then it turned into a time vice. You know, advice on the dining room table, which we trashed like 18 years ago and yeah, but we we said that, you know, at the end. Of the day. You know, I'm a trade guy and there's a lot of trades guys in. This industry and.
Speaker 6
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 8
Everybody wants a quality product for the right price and I always said, you know, like half the base, we could make it better, we could make them better.
Steven:
Better.
Speaker 8
Quickly. Stronger. So that's what we did, right? We plugged in the the the .72 wire with with, with extra tempo on it. So it's got a lot more backbone. It's a lot sturdier. And of course, every part that we ever put on that on that wire shaft. It was all custom. It's all custom made in the beginning we were drilling stuff out. Yeah. You know there is.
Steven:
Can't go by those beads, yeah.
Speaker 8
Yeah, I was way speeds. I mean every single thing. But then, but then every, every place we go, you know, it was, you know, I'm I'm a research guy too, right? And, you know, that was my. I did earned for 18 years in food industry and part of the process is continuous improvement always make it better. Make it stronger and that's what we did cause so we tie on a lockdown collar where the thread locks down into that collar. The glue, the proxy glue hardens up real hard in there. So you know the thread coming out. It's not cold, it's not tight on the spring right where it's like on the surface it can be.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 8
Cut. Of course, yes, that wire is is the claim to fame, but then we all of our blades are the. Old 40 blades and.
Steven:
Dan, let me ask you this and and.
Speaker 8
That's.
Jay:
And that why are 07?
Steven:
Two, that's heavy.
Jay:
The. The industry norm is really 051. So you can you know. Right. Yeah, right. I.
Speaker 8
Mean and that's the thing, right guys? Are guys spend money at musky baits? And let's face it, you know things are getting cheaper. Plus excise tax is always on our back. You know, like you, you gotta find a way to make this thing better, stronger and and reasonable and and people want a strong faith that.
Steven:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 8
Lasts and you. Already you like. You guys are bringing Bates and they call like 16. Hey, Shawna, there's nothing left. And like, can you rebuild this? Like. Really do want you just.
Steven:
Hang that up. Hang her up, do you, Dan? Let me.
Speaker 8
Damn. Oh man. Like there comes the time, you know. But the water is still good. Why aren't you? You know? And. And the Blazers still there. And that's the thing that we always thought too. Right. The the harmonics of the bait. It's all about the blades.
Steven:
Then let me ask you this. The wire is still good.
Speaker 8
And if you if you take. A thin blade and. You bend that up. You you change the harmonics of that beat.
Steven:
Forever. Dan, let me ask you something. I gotta pick your brain. Right cause and Jake can attest. I've been a a Spanky fan for a long time. We've talked about him a ton on the podcast. We don't have a lot of guests and that's just cause we rent, get on here and. All right, couple questions.
Speaker 8
Yes, all right.
Steven:
You said something about harmonics. I've I'm already asking, but there's there's two things one to know. So. Density means vibrations, right? So the the, the denser the shaft, right, the more harmonic resonance you would have. You already beat me to that secondly. Where the wire weighs more the the the blades are thicker. The bait intrinsically weighs more than your typical bucktail. Do you intend to? That? Intend that in the design process where you're going to get lower, tighter to cover and structure where more muskies are holding or was that a byproduct? Of a beefed up design.
Speaker 8
Good. Well, I mean on on you know, at the end of the day it's it's a, it's a little bit heavier with Bucktail. We do make multiple versions you know like well we never really get into that. We've always just settled on the best version. That's that's possible where the bait runs like people want to add a lot of weight to bait. So say yeah, I really want this heavy, but then the the rear. You know, the rear end of the bait runs low. So it's like riding dirty that doesn't.
Steven:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. Up, like a weird angle. Yeah.
Speaker 8
Look very good. Yeah. So that's not good either. And then if you start getting this thing kind of whacked out of balance and you don't put the weight in the spaces in the right place.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 8
Umm you have some imbalance issues when you go to cast it. Castability is important. Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time you can't get it too lightweight because the flash. It doesn't absorb water like feathers and hair, so when you pull those out of the water, they're already heavy with water and they've got a little bit of a little bit of weight for the, you know, to load your rod, they with the tinsel, it's not there. So you gotta make sure you got the right amount of weight, the castability that it rides even in the water. So there's there's balance in there. You know what I mean?
Steven:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it seemed like I said, the intrinsic nature of these bats are, you know, as a as a full time guy and things of this nature, it's like. You know, throw it out. Turn the handle monkey. You know. But it seems that you get an extra foot. You get that extra distance that breaks the level of light penetration that that converts more fish, at least in my mind, just from the basic build of the Bay, you know, because like at the 88 Spanky or the 8-9 is kind of bread and butter for me most of the time. There you go. You can't mess that up. You just can't. You know it it it anybody could catch a fish on that thing, you know where I think a.
Speaker 8
Yeah. The other, the other piece that we really pride ourselves into is that the blades. So like the blade design, right? Like we we're at the point now where we design our own blades, the cop, the pitch, all of these pieces. Yeah. All of these pieces make make a difference.
Steven:
Lot.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
The cavitation, yes.
Speaker 8
What? Comes to the blades starting on a retreat and and a lot of people. A lot of people will buy bats and then it's like they gotta snap on and they gotta jerk them to get those blades going. You have that? And plus. Plus underneath, the club says you've got a nylon wear washer, which also ensures smooth hold on.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 8
Which also which also you know ensures a. Smooth, smooth rotation of the clauses and start up every time. So a lot of great factors that go into this pay and then of course the cost on this too, right? Like you think a bait that's gonna be that beefy and that heavy is gonna cost you. Ohh so much more for quality but the reality is we we keep it we keep it tight we do a good job sourcing. And we do a good job working with our vendors like Jay to keep this thing, you know, realistic.
Steven:
Yeah, it it. It's spot on you. You'll hear no complaints from me on on that front and then. Yeah, something you guys did in it. I was interested in. You have a series of rods now at the Muskie shop and obviously you guys have them in other places. But what was kind of the design process there because there's something I noticed which was like a non insert I.
Speaker 8
Right. Yeah, yeah. So that's it. Yeah, we we did rods. We did rods. Ohh boy. I think we did rods and 13, 2013, 2015. And one of the reasons we got all the rods just cause I couldn't get the quality. Mm-hmm. It just. I just couldn't get the quality components.
Speaker 6
Hmm.
Speaker 8
That we wanted to put on these rods and we talk about the Spanky Bates name. It just wasn't representative of of the quality standard that that, that we want. You know that we're known for. Yeah. So we stopped making the rods. And then about about 2 1/2 years ago, I saw that they started to make this solid stainless eyelet with no insert and to me. That was the world and at the same time, the other piece was that the telescoping rods were coming out right back in the day and there was problems when that was kind of starting. There was just different issues with that whole mechanism. So we shared away from it. So now, Fast forward, we've got very good telescopic, you know, maneuvering and and the mechanism itself is very, very solid. And then we put these islets on without the inserts, I can't tell you how many. Trips have been. Ruined because you know, especially in the fall where a guy with a. Size 12 foot.
Jay:
Ohh yeah. Yep. Yes Sir.
Speaker 8
Steps on an eyelid or or worse. I mean it's one thing to see an eyelet that's broken. You say? Alright, man, that I was broken, right? That's bad. But it's almost worse when somebody steps at her. Like. One of the little eyelets cracks and you don't see it.
Steven:
Mm-hmm. Now have to brace it.
Speaker 8
And then when when that happened? Yeah. Then you end up losing a lure. A lure, a leader and then or a fish. And then.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8
It's even worse.
Speaker
Yep.
Steven:
Exactly. Yeah, I I saw that. Actually, I I think they showed up right before the Muskie shot bash. Right. And I we're we're in, in the garage there. When when we're getting set up for the bash and I saw this and went brilliant it it alleviates the problem because in muskie fishing right now it's like OK we can cast. 6080 A 120 a bomb cast with musculus. You know this? Not this not surf casting. Everybody right? That's right. And and and and and at a certain point that Rod is going to translate enough feeling to you you know it's working this is not funny.
Speaker 8
That's right.
Steven:
Yes. And I'm going. Why are we doing this? Why are we? Why are we copying bass fish? We need ceramic inserts because no, we don't. We don't need that. That I find that to be brilliant. Because you go. It alleviates a problem first and foremost, and it alleviates potential lossage, you know, because it lossage.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 1
No.
Steven:
Making it worse here, but a potential loss because it it a certain point you go anything that I can, you know, minimize or mitigate anything that could cost me a fish or cause mortality of fish is a is a net win in my mind. I thought that was pretty. Go in. You know the other thing that we we we we talked about as far as the trolling application and and obviously I'm a fan boy here was the whiplash. Right, because you've got this this big spinner bait. And when I we don't talk about trolling Bucktails as much as I talk about trolling spinner baits what was.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
Kind of thought process there is. That in your brain. You know, obviously this is your baby. Is this a casting application where you were thinking trolling more or what? What was kind of the thought process there?
Speaker 8
Well, you know every everything for me. So I'm a caster and you know I. But I always say that, you know, we've got a huge foul like we we've had a great following on on Lake Saint Claire for so long.
Steven:
Uh-huh.
Speaker 8
Those guys, those guys are brutal on muscularis, right? They put them to the test. In fact, that's where the wear part was developed. That little nylon washer was developed on Saint Clair. Cause these guys are running.
Speaker 6
Absolutely.
Speaker 8
Pays 16 hours a day nonstop and it's wearing through. So. So we always gotta make sure that we're making things that are castable and they're also trouble. You know, there's some, you know, we do want to get into a situation where we have to create 2 lines. You have to buy 2 lanes, 2, two different dates if you want to cast the troll. All the quality features.
Speaker 6
Right, yeah.
Speaker 8
The one do with it what? You like, right? And when when we developed this bait, the first one was the whiplash with the six skirts and the big blade, the big Willow, I think you have options on that. You've got the Willow, the mag, the mag, Willow. You got the mag. 10, You got the mag, Indy.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah, it comes.
Speaker 8
With all of them, it comes with, yeah. So that that was developed for casting. That's how we first started it and then we tuned it for trolling. Yeah. And so that's just a big that's just a big fish bait. Now, people will say, well, it's kind of heavy, you know, comes in under. I think it's under half a pound. But well, listen, guys are throwing pounder of whatever out there.
Jay:
This is nothing more to stroll now to try profile. Yeah. I mean, what? You know, there's a lack of giant profile spinners out there, you know, to be honest with you, the biggest innervates are just heavier of the same frame size. This is truly giant.
Speaker 8
And.
Speaker 6
Why? Right, right.
Jay:
Yeah.
Speaker 8
And then I mean, of course off of that though. So then then we developed the Whiplash Junior, which is lighter, it's 3 skirts because, let's be honest, let's be honest, boys, we got we have multiple, we have multiple. I don't see demographics, but generations like fishing in this industry, right, you got like I said, I was up. I was up north with a couple.
Speaker 3
Fisheries well.
Speaker 8
Couple guys in their 20s, then these these guys can throw anything, it doesn't matter. And then you know, then I go up with, I go up to the older guys, closer to my age. Right. Like second-half of their life, right. And listen, throwing big, heavy duty stuff is is.
Speaker 6
Oh yeah.
Steven:
All day, yeah.
Speaker 8
It's not gonna be. She's not gonna be comprehensible for these guys all day, right?
Steven:
Account realistic, yeah.
Speaker 8
So you may you may get. By throwing that for a few hours when your hand gets tired, the downsize, and that's why we made the three, you know, the the whiplash Junior, because that's more reasonable base to throw all all day long. And I mean we see this throughout all the bait lines, right, I mean Jay? You know it too, right? I mean somebody, you know, somebody throwing. The M9. And now the M Nines are not hard to throw in Twitch. Those are easy. But yeah, start talking about double 10 spinner baits. Yeah, 10 nines. Big angry. Those get a little tougher, but then you start getting down in the like you talked about the 8-9, the eights, the little angries guys really can throw those all day and that's what it's part is you got.
Steven:
To be able to stay in the game, I I think a lot of it too though is, you know, you know, we got big fish down here in Tennessee and I spent all the summers up in Wisconsin, Kansas, Big Fish, big fish.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
Big fish, right you go. You know, weird places in southern Indiana or or, you know, certain places in Wisconsin or Iowa. Shad base, where a big profile is not necessarily the ticket, so it always makes sense. I you know, I think a lot of it. Like you said, the physicality, but sometimes it's important to not have. A 15 inch offering. Everywhere you go, you know, which is I think is super relevant you.
Speaker 6
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Steven:
Know. Which is nice. I would. I would if I ever throw a pounder again. I I will. Here in a few months. I promise you that. But you just go. Oh my lower back.
Jay:
You can get.
Steven:
You can get it done, except for that, the more pounders you throw it. I always thought each cast just takes about 5 minutes off your life like a cigarette, right? You're like, oh, well, that I'll want that 5 minutes back on my deathbed. So I'm so glad you're on the show. It's so enlightening. To hear about the product lineup, is there anything kind of brewing for 2025? You guys have been doing a lot of innovation, you know.
Speaker 8
Me and I want to touch on Steve. Listen, I don't want to cut you off, but I want to touch on a point this late. We were talking about the pounders and we get this question a lot and I'm sure, Jay, you guys get. Of course I mean.
Steven:
No, you're great, baby.
Speaker 8
This at the shop all the time. A lot of people ask me about our lives. And they talk about big rubber and I. Tell. Them. Listen, this this rod is not design. And to throw big rubber, this rod, these rods, these rods are designed. They're they're designed and built to bit to throw Bucktails whether it's, yeah. Blade runners. Right, the Blade Runner. Whether it's big Bucktails or small Bucktails. And of course like the the the wheel handles. Right. And people ask me about the wheel.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Jay:
Blade runners.
Jay:
Oh.
Speaker 8
Handles that revolution wheel handle with that forage power grip is absolutely a lifesaver and we we sold through that first batch. In like, no time and we've got absolutely phenomenal reports back on these lots that guys really like them. So that's.
Jay:
A big thing and.
Speaker 8
And but I do want to be clear though, it's not a big rubber rod like, right? It's a it's a heavy fast action rod and like can you get away throwing a smaller like? A smaller tube. On it, of course. Or a smaller. Schedule. Of course you could. And my boy should be smiling cause I'm pumping their tires, but at this at the same time, as you know, don't get into the heavy stuff with it. Cause of course just not built for that. And you know what the what the rod makers that sell that stuff and build those rods for those you're going to have to go to those guys for that kind of a lot.
Steven:
Right. Yeah, yeah, it it. It's everything's applicational based. That that's one thing I did notice about your series rods, which was. Very quite a bit of flex kind of past the third islet, right, which which translate vibration better, which is, I mean, you know, and in no way since her form, I think what what you're saying so eloquently is is, you know, they didn't. They have not said, hey, these are meant for everything. These are meant to throw Bucktails and throw them very well. Because I think a lot that's that's missed when you're throwing a bucktail. If you you know if you're a multi rod guy, is that extra flex for distance and sensitivity. I think it's super.
Speaker 8
Yeah, let's not forget the figure 8:00. We we it's very important that the, you know, you get a lot of fish up on the Figure 8 if you're good on the Figure 8 and you can. Really put a. Lot more fish in the boat, but it's important that you rod matches what you can do. I see guys fishing out of a little low profile boat with 10 foot rods and they're figure eights. The figures are so big and they're not precise and they can't do it.
Steven:
They can't do it, yeah.
Speaker 8
And it's like, why would you throw a rod like? Well, now I can. I can cast this almost a foot. Sealed. Yeah, I said. That's great. But we're like, we're like 30. Feet off the edge of the structure that we're. Fishing.
Steven:
Right. Are you are you trying to get follows? Yeah.
Speaker 8
So that's like overkill? Yeah. Let me cut 3 feet off the back end of that thing and let me show you how to figure. Eight, I mean, it's so yeah.
Jay:
If you don't convince Steve Allen.
Speaker 8
For sure. Yeah. I mean it's it's important. So I see too many guys who rode long that like the the rods are too long for the Figure 8. And of course, now I say that. And I fish out of a little 1 Alaskan and then I'm in the front of those axes. And now I gotta have multiple length rocks just to match those boats. Cause it's it's. A huge difference. You know that that's important. Piece too.
Steven:
That's a huge. You know, you're one of the few people we ever heard on that pointed out, me and Jay said all the time where whether it be like a musky shop shield rod. Or Saint Croix, or Spanky Road, or whatever. We always tell people you've got to match the right to your physical stature and the boat you're fishing out of. That's it. You know where it it's a combination of both, because if you're in a remember the old school lung ties. If you're in the nose, you're about 9 feet off the water. Some days, you know, you felt like you're just just just way hovering above where you've got to have the appropriate rod length for the for the boat you're fishing out of in, in physical stature, cause like you said, sometimes you get too long. Fraud and you've got you've lacked control. If you're not of a of a tall physical stature, it's it's just so. Thought on what? What else would you say is sort of coming in the in the works right now with with what's doing in your head for 2025?
Jay:
Well, Tom and I mentioned to you, Dan, the other day about that secret new, I didn't. I know Tom talks to you more than I do. But you know we were trying to develop something together. So that's what that's fun.
Speaker 8
Yeah, I think, yeah. So we've got, I know, I know we've got, we've got something that works here with the shop that we're going to do for you guys and it looks like it's pretty positive. We'll know a little bit more this week, but then I think the first part of next year we're definitely going to be releasing. We have a new bait that's coming out. It's going to be a whole new line for us.
Speaker 1
Cool.
Speaker 8
I can't say anything yet cool and but then next year we're going to be probably taking another bid that is a complete off the wall. If I can get this to work, it's a it's a, it's a completely different style bait and that's at the end of the day. That's the one piece that we're we're really trying to push and we've been working On this date. For over almost two years now, so we're we're hoping that we can get us some final stages with that next year, but it it takes, it takes a lot on this one. So I nothing I can really give you guys right now.
Steven:
Well, they're always trying to innovate. They have. I have in my opinion the best in line Bucktails in the game. Spanky Bates we we've talked about the ton. Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show. Me and Jay will have to have you on again here real soon.
Speaker 8
Thank you.
Steven:
And much appreciated, Sir.
Speaker 8
Have a great night. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1
You pay for the whole seat, but the only deal.
Steven:
You pay for the whole seed, but you win me there. Yeah. Muskie crossed 93.
Jay:
Muskie.
Speaker
How about that?
Steven:
Dan Ski Digger versus Dan Moe.
Speaker 1
What's ohh man? That was.
Steven:
Great. That was fantastic. He he definitely knows the product line. Super informed obviously knows Muskie fishing obviously makes a. Hell of a. Bait. No complaints.
Jay:
Well, there's two it in in plural form. That is what I say it was like. What do you got, 13 or 14? Then I I went back and I counted. I think there's 16 different spinners that we carry from Spanky baits. Plus the rod line and the new crank baits. He's got all out and he was talking in depth about the the new M9 pros and the M.
Speaker 3
Plurality.
Steven:
As far as you can.
Jay:
Seven pros. Cool stuff. Listen, he had me at.
Steven:
M13.
Jay:
Yeah, I know he did.
Steven:
That was he. He knew he did. He was like, oh, I got this guy. I got him. Got him. Headshot. He's like, you know, like there's very, very few times where I'm like, you know.
Jay:
This is almost done. That's cool. I can't wait. To see him.
Steven:
Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. You know I love. I love love, 13 inch grandmas, those are. They're, you know, you'll see the big Jags. Whatever. They're too fat for that size of a bait, in my opinion. And and the tightness of that obviously is a huge vibration, but the hook up ratio, whatever I don't need. I say no more. You know what I'm saying? Moving on it. It just checks all the boxes. So. Jay, we've covered. Herbeck. The lack we we've. Talked about why? Why toboggans have little pom poms on the top? We've done it.
Jay:
All that's true. I forgot about.
Steven:
That, you know it's a. Hopefully, hopefully the listeners have they're going. This is not what I TuneIn for.
Jay:
Well, covering her back is easy. It's a.
Steven:
Small target. It's small target, big herbeck, little herbeck. You know it. Anyway, Jaybird, say Evita. Zane.
Speaker 1
I just made him mad. Yep.
Jay:
Thanks everybody night.
Speaker 1
Later. What have you done? Google must see only one. The little. Swimming, fire. Yourselfie little musky. What's the you want? Little Musk Hill station? Hi, Steve. For a life of chill. Nice day. What is it you wish? What color? Casting. For so. Long. Nice day. It's nice to meet you.
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 256: Jumping into Fall Muskies
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 255: Gettin' Messy with Esse
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 254: Musky and Pike Lures Worldwide
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 253: New Musky Gear and Massive Q&A
Transcript
Steven
Alright folks, welcome to the Muskie 360 podcast. Jay bird. State birth statement it's hot. It is hot down South. Ohh, you were watching the Packers and Titans. It looks steamy, steamy over there. Is it finally cooled down a smidge?
Jay
Hey, what's happening today?
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Speaker
Jay
Yeah, yeah. Would cold front go through? It's like 60° for our day. So that'll.
Steven
Yeah. Nice. That'll knock it down a little bit. For instance, things going. It's been the constant complaint. It's almost the end of September. It's like earth, wind and fire with the 21st of September. What are we looking at now? It's 22nd. Excuse me.
Jay
It will. We'll get.
Steven
Glass. You know it's it's a little late in the game to be that hot that you guys were just dealing with, you know, Herbie, Herbie called me a few days ago, and he was just like, it's it's nasty. You know, a lot of pea soup and places still. What are you hearing? What are you seeing for all the the folks that are coming up there for that fall bike?
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
Jay
Yeah, yeah, it's it's actually been pretty good fishing, you know, it's just like one day, you know, people get multiple fish. The next day, it won't be so great. You know, typical Muskie, you know, results. But yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
Jay
Based on the majors and minors and and you know the the shallow weed thing has still been strong.
Steven
There you. Well, throw it and turn the handle, throw it and turn the handle. That's good stuff, you know.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Steven
So. Can't go wrong there. We might as well let the cat out the Peruvian back. Yes. So we've been teasing you and if you guys are trollers, you're going to be a happy camper, I begged. I pleaded. I begged and pleaded. I offered favors that that I will regret. Here. To death, supernatural to make us something exceptional that you're going to be able to get your hands on at the Muskie shop. He cracked out a batch of the brand new the way he's doing it, that's a different joint. All this stuff, 12 inch jointed, headlocks Jay, they're going to be out when you just got them. You saw your, you got them in your hands. I had the demo. When you do, you did the video. What's cooking, man?
Speaker 2
Yep.
Jay
Yeah, we're going to put them on sale Wednesday morning at 9:00 AM Central Wednesday the. 25th of September, just a few short days away. No, it's first come, first serve. So we got five different colors, which is cool, because how long has it been? Six years since any were made. Roughly. Yeah, something like that, you know.
Steven
5th, there ain't a lot of them. Not a lot of them. I guess I don't know. And then the first time they were made in and their killers. You know, they're killers. It's it's. It's one of these deals. I actually went and shot a video that Jays did, the underwater. I sort of shot shot the tutorial of the ones I'm playing with. Duff was kind enough to make me one quick to play with and of course, go go out there and smack one with it. It it's a it does the same stuff. You're supernatural baits do, but it's got the joint in it, which I like it for a slower look. Right. And here's what I learned.
Speaker 2
MMM.
Steven
That it is the baddest like speed up, slow down float. Up bait I've. Ever seen? So supernatural rock on their way up this thing has a wicked action on the float up, so surge, stop, surge, stop, surge, stop, surge. Stop. Every time that things floating. It's just nasty because the tail is. Moving when float up so. This late season stuff you hear on occasion, Jim will be on the podcast The Tube Screamer, and we'll talk about jerk trolling. We'll talk about cold water, trolling and tactics like that. Anytime you're getting in these fall temps that propelled forward, then float up right, whether it be, you know, a dive and rise bait troll like RIP trolling or surging with these baits because it looks so good on the flood and the, you know, the back brakes. So when it floats. Yep, it's a. Like this it's it's it looks very wounded and that tail section is just wagging around. So you've got an extra bit of motion there. The other thing is this is in the corners, Jay. When I'm turning with that thing right when I'm taking these jointed headlocks and making corners, they seem to scoot out quite a bit.
Jay
Yeah.
Steven
Right. So it's got a little bit more mojo in the turn it's going to help you connect with some fish if you're a serious troller or you are you're looking for a monster, get your hands on them. Like I said, it's it's, you know, sounds corny. Duff can only make so many, and I had to beg Jay. I think I gotta. I gotta. Mow his yard or something.
Jay
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, we'll put the video out tomorrow on YouTube. So music shop, YouTube channel. Check it out. The thing looks great. And you had a lot of good points on it, too. It's still got that that, you know, supernatural, high speed, kind of trolling effect to it. But you said, you know, when you slow down.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've picked. Ohh yeah yeah.
Jay
Two at slower speeds you you know.
Steven
Yeah, it was cool.
Jay
It's it's something that's.
Steven
And it's.
Jay
Jointed crankbaits you know they excel at slower speeds.
Steven
And that's The thing is like the illusion of speed that that's the whole trick. Like whether be a joint like the Pounder from Livingston or A to a depth rate or whatever jointed crank that you want to do. They have more.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Motion. If you want lower speeds. Because of the joint. So they run your typical casting crank baits is just about say about the trolling charts on this they run typically just as mid shallower than the standard so. With the 12 inch jointed, I'm adding about two to three feet to get the exact same running depth that you see. Like if you go on the musty 360 app, there's the trolling chart for the 12 inch headlock, right? Add 3 feet. That's it, right. So about 3 feet extra. We'll have that thing running exactly. Where the non joiner will but that that that motion like I said in the turns, especially when you're turn like I was saying like that dig in and all this stuff on the turn. Like if you imagine when that's on the inside of a turn, not only is it floating up, but it's digging a little bit more left, right? So I like it. It's cool. It's it's gonna be one of those things. If you get them while you can, you know if you're. If you're serious about big fish and serious about throwing. I talked to Jim about it. Talk to Duff. So we've got the gizzard or not gizzard. But the black rice super popular thing. You've got a shad, you've got Superman. You've got some perch. You've got a freaking white. No walleye. So you. It's got all your bases covered there. So you know, it's cool. Excited about that. We've been teasing it, but Duff delivered, and then he sent me a picture of himself and his apron in the shop looking foolish. I'm stoked about those guys. Those are going to be.
Speaker 2
Yep, Yep, I agree.
Steven
Where the big water fishing. I mean, it doesn't matter where you're going to go, you're going to put them in the boat with that. Then the comings and the goings at the Muskie shop talked about last week threw it. Up. Magnus is up there on the on the promo where you can get signed up for it. That's going to be coming out after the first. Of the year but. Jay, I freaking took that thing out down here at home and it is dynamite. They say Jay. Yeah. Yeah. Jays been playing with one too, but nasty, nasty results on video. I'll tell you that much. But anyway, before we well, what was I going to say? What else showed up here?
Jay
So I know, I know.
Steven
Well, the boss shared stuff, which is cool. Yeah. I mean, yeah, the entire boss shared from a 4.5 to the 8 inch. I'm looking here, they make killer stuff. I I believe everything's handmade. I'm. I'm 99. It is. Yeah. And. And so custom little trolley.
Jay
But yeah, the lost shared family. Very cool.
Speaker 2
Yes, they are.
Steven
Casting cranks boshes we have all the trolling charts on the app. If you want to add them to your repertoire, Jay. You have all the running depths right there, but they're cool, man. Especially. I've done well in the past. The one that that I've had the most experience with is the the seven inch. Shallow boss shed. Right. Which is, which is kind of a pan fishy body. I've definitely had experience with it, but the the the 8 inch menu looks like some casting options. I mean, they're cool stuff. You cannot go wrong there. It's kind of like I'm glad that we got them because if you've done, if you've done well at any point with like tough shad, you know, trying to talk about.
Jay
Steven
Sure. So the tough, she had great bait. This is a cool alternative for that. You know, I'm saying so it's like the Jake and the grandma, if you will. Or if you're, if you're downsized, trolling. Office. You can cast them at great trolling baits and and it's a nice mix up kind of in that custom vein for that. That mid range deal, right, there's there's not a lot of baits. I mean you can get your. Cool. Some some crankbaits that are like basically what I would I personally refer to as. Like. Bass baits? You know what I'm saying? Like some of the mass produced ones where these are are definitely driven for for muskie fishing and you don't have to worry about. So those are cool. Got a handful of the ledge and plow. Stuff. Legend. Outcast you've got. Those handful of those still kicking anything else going on, I can't.
Jay
Believe those were going really fast really fast.
Steven
I'll tell you what's crazy. It's funny. It's like we wait, you know, months and nothing's happening. It's like you sort of. We always get like, the the comings and the goings of the muskie shop and it gets real hot and heavy right in the early spring. And then nothing happens. This year's been crazy for the amount of stuff we've gotten late in the year.
Jay
Yeah. And there's more coming, too. Yeah, there's a couple other cool dates coming soon, I hope, before you know well into October, at least, you know.
Steven
There's more coming, always. Oh. Yeah, people are still still fishing.
Jay
You can still use them.
Steven
This year? Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. So and then. Ohh God something else. So we said the the Livingston crack and paddle tail and the curly tail will be the. They have shipped from Livingston to the Muskie shop. They're they're on the way, can't. Can't control them.
Jay
Yeah, you're in transit right now. So yeah, hopefully within a couple of days, we'll.
Steven
Have them look, you know, whoever had them on their truck was probably drunk in the parking lot at the truck stop, Jay. And I've got a little lot lizard action. Like, I don't want to live room.
Jay
Little boy. Could be on the train and this you know. Truck stop there. Ohh, you know that would be devastating. Yeah, bad news.
Steven
Guaranteed places that I can guarantee you could blow a ****** is a truck stop you put. Been there grinds to a halt. ******** gone. Transmissions, John, right? Exactly. Jays filmed it thousands of times anyway, and it is. It is what it is. Guys, I have to. I'm excited about it. Yeah, I'm leaving on a jet plane, Jay.
Jay
She wants to see under.
Speaker 2
Very.
Jay
I'm excited too.
Steven
Why? Cause I'll be gone, not bothering you.
Jay
No, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a great adventure. I mean, you're going with Eric from Livingston. You're going to that huge hole again. And hungry.
Steven
Yeah, going to have. That would be, yeah, going.
Speaker 2
Can you hear me?
Jay
To bringing the Magnus and bringing the. Pain as they.
Steven
Say yeah, headed over there. Went last year. Gotta gotta. By which I still have it's in my office. It's kind of shock, to be honest with it's kind of shock got award.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
For. The the Titan, which was cool again, you know freaking. It's kind of like, you know, you know, some award you won in 4th grade. My mom.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Will keep it. Whatever. But it was cool. I was very honored and it was me. I got to meet so many interesting people. One of the coolest things ever which is talk about the opportunity to hang out. With the guy.
Speaker 2
Freaking.
Steven
Heck, the the the copy who makes it strike King strike. Strike. Excuse me. Got to hang out with Steve from strike pro. The owner of that coming from freaking Japan.
Jay
For all.
Steven
You know, so that was cool.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Steven
And you know, a lot of different stuff. So and there's this company, these dudes that are from Estonia. That have been. Killing it on cracking right they are. They are Pike influencers from Estonia. I actually remember I sent you that video.
Speaker 2
Steven
The one where the guy that he's holding up about four or five weeks ago and he's holding up the bike, but those guys are going to be. So what I'm going to do next week is is there'll be a slight delay. I think we'll have it. Typically if we miss Sunday, we get on Monday, I'm going to try to interview as many people as I can, Jay, next week. So we have, it'd be cool. Like I said, I really want to pick.
Speaker 2
Steven
Steve from strike Pro, you know, here. Here's a Japanese bait maker. How many opportunities do you have to be in the same room with him or some of these pipe guys? And and and hopefully you know the company Weston that makes Muskie pipe stuff is going to be there and all these different things I'm going to do my damnedest to get.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, bro.
Steven
Some of these guys to sit down and and and maybe I'll just record on my phone or something like that and try to pick their brain about what's going on and try to find out what's happening. Cause if there's anything cool. That is going to be applicable for for muskie fishing in the next year. Literally what's coming out where I'm about to see it in a matter of days. So I will report back in on that, I might.
Jay
No doubt, no doubt about it, yeah.
Steven
Even. Who knows? I'll film some video and see if it's usable or anything like that, that of of some of the stuff that's going on because I'm kind of excited about it. It's it's always neat because. You know the Pike guys borrow from Muskie and we borrow from Pike and you know you look at Savage Gear, which is totally a European company and now they're in the Muskie game and vice versa. And you look at Livingston and and and we were, you know, primarily pushing Muskies and it's going into Pike pretty Dang well over there. So I'll try to report back as much as I can and try to sit down with some of the. People. I I I believe that some of the people from Shimano like of Japan will be there, so I'll try to figure out, you know, it's it there. There's quite a bit of gap between a lot of these companies where it's just like, yeah, I can get the smitty's on the phone pretty easy, you know? But it's like, remember we tried to do the. Interview with my. That's ohh man. Guy, no.
Jay
You know, it was. Yeah, it was. We're trying to get a hold of them. Yeah. He was in Thailand or something at the time, you know, on the.
Steven
Yeah, aren't they? Aren't they? Aren't they all in?
Jay
Water and it was just just like.
Steven
Thailand. No, really. Again, back-to-back to the truck stop. Yeah, he's he's in Thailand for a thing, but nonetheless, that was that was tough. And then, you know, we had people emailing again. We we tried to. I tried to create. It's like here we have bad signal and then you have really hard. Accidents and things of that nature, so I'll try to squeeze out some some usable stuff on my there's such a different scene, you know what I'm saying? And then see how much more of the guys that fish, those whales catfish have stole from us.
Speaker
Just cause it's.
Steven
I learned last year they figure out those things, the well campers. The giant campus. Yeah. So there's. Yeah, they do all that funky stuff. So I'll report back on that and see what kind of buffoonery I can get in again, you know, it's.
Jay
What just come on? Yeah. OK. OK.
Steven
Just like should be. Good. Well, you know, between that and. All the other stuff. And I believe we'll see, I think in the spring, there's going to be another European filming trip. More on that later, but that's that's the combo now, going somewhere even weirder than the Netherlands guy. Like, I'm talking like way out in the like he might be skinned and ransomed.
Speaker 2
Hmm. Hmm.
Steven
You know, we'll see we have before I cut out of here and and go across the pond mate.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Is that what they say? Oh, no, wrong. Wrong accent. Good day.
Jay
No, you're. You're you're thinking about Australia.
Speaker 2
Oh.
Steven
My. Good day anyway, Frank. Cut out that we got a ton of Q&A catch up on a lot of gear talk. So we're gonna jump into it. John, I'm new to musky fishing and now and have it listen to your podcast reading Mr. Paul's book. Well, he called me Mr. Paul. That's funny.
Speaker 2
Steven
And no one likes me. That's a good it's it's appreciate it. No brevity needed. I promise. Yeah. And he says he says I'm absorbing everything I can.
Jay
Is. 1.
Steven
Your information is help me immensely. I want to take a fall trip. I'm trying to decide where to go. I live in Duluth and there are two places I'm considering. Lake of the woods and the Minocqua area. I hear you guys talking about how pressure the waters of minocqua are as a new muskie hunter I am am I better surf fishing? The bigger water like the woods. Please let me know. What's what? What I should do you know, is bigger. Better if you're in Duluth. My knee jerk reaction is go. Like what? That would be me, but it's really not that far from minocqua. It's a different. OK, let's, let's, let's back this down to this Jay, right. Action. Are we looking for action? He's new to the game or looking for action. Are we looking for big opportunity? Which heading to the the North Woods might be a little more manageable? I knee jerk to Canada. But you know, if he's newer in the game. You know, I mean, it's not that, you know, here, here in this fall trip. I mean, what's it? What's it shaping up to be in, like, October? You know, what can what? What's a good day? I mean, I I haven't spent I'm I'm going to be up there actually when I get back from Hungary's house. A whole other conversation. We'll have another live from Jays dungeon, you know, a good moderate sized lake, perfect conditions this fall. I mean, you can get into what, 234? What's your thoughts?
Jay
Absolutely, it's. Let's just say that Minocqua lakes are pressured. I don't know if that's really accurate. I I don't agree with that. I mean, there's a how many times have you been up here and we've gone out or have we gone out with the tubescreamer even on weekends? And there's really not much muskie pressure. I mean, on some lakes. Yeah, it peaks, summer and stuff like that.
Steven
Well, you're saying.
Jay
Of course, you're going to get water skis and stuff, but pressure compared to southern Wisconsin or maybe mostly anywhere else in the planet.
Speaker 2
Minneapolis. Yeah. No, no, no. There really isn't. So.
Steven
That's the thing. There's there's pressure, but there's pressure. But there's also. No, there's plenty of places to freaking go. I mean.
Jay
I was talking to. Elmer just got back from Lake of the woods. He got back about what, a week ago or something like that and. I asked him. How much? What was the pressure like out there? Mostly he's like, well, actually, there was quite a bit anytime you looked around, you could see several people musky fishing.
Steven
Well, you have you have, I mean like this is as popular as it. Gets.
Jay
Yeah.
Steven
You know, and so American side accent. I don't know, John. I mean it's it's your questions. Great. It's like Lake of the woods would be. I I would did unarguably when you get into Muskies, you're going to have a bigger size class average there, but if you need to put some under your belt. And and see a lot of different stuff than North Woods. Because, I mean, you've got clear stuff. You got tannic stuff, you got rivers, you. Got blah blah, blah, blah blah blah. Exactly. So there's like, I mean it's like we're not working for the tourism board by any means, but pick your poison, you know, like and realistically, I mean.
Speaker 2
With the life.
Steven
Fricking. It's not that far from I've driven from from Jay lives in Saint Germain. What you gotta think about when you get a minocqua, you got Saint Germain. You got Eagle River, right? If you're desperate, you go to slime Lander or plover. Excuse me? You go. That was horrible. You go. I mean, it's a long day. OK. You got a tough one, alright. Hot. I'm tired. I'm hot and bothered. But you've got. So much in the region.
Jay
Well you you've got the highest concentration of freshwater lakes in the world right here in Miles and Nina County. So that's something to be said. You know, it's a lot of small mid sized lakes that choose from, like you said, a variety of different lake types too. It's so cool.
Steven
Right now. But unarguably, if we're going to rock'n'roll for for big fish like Woods, period right now, I would not say that the US side is better than the fall than the Canadian side. Right. So the bottom half of that lake is not anywhere that I would really. I mean, there's fish there, don't get me wrong. But it's not like when you get up in the in the upper section that we can't tell you what to do, but those are kind of like that. That's kind of the juxtaposition. Of the two. Right. So if you feel like, hey, you could tackle like the woods, there's great maps, you'll be fine. You'll be safe, right? Don't let me back that up. Don't take that for granted, but there's plenty of mapping and routes right #1. However, there's great mapping and routes you know on on the north with if you want action you wanted to get dialed in, because if I was like new to the game, right, Jay, I would go. All right, I'm fish my home water. I think the Northwoods would be great where I spend some time there. I get to see a lot of different things and I might not catch a. Gigantosaurus but I can get some practice under my belt and some experience under my belt before I went to the big water.
Speaker
Good.
Jay
Yeah, you go out and he's talking on October trip, right? Because you're so you don't want to get blown off the water too. I mean, you're on a massive, you know, couple 100,000 acres. And it's just like you got a bad wind day. It's like, I don't.
Steven
I don't know, he said. Fall. So I mean, it's late September and we just sent it so. Yeah.
Jay
Think we can get out, you know? Yeah.
Steven
I mean, that's the thing.
Jay
You can just deal with it up here.
Steven
There is, let me put it this way. No comparison between violence and united counties and lake of the woods. However, you know what experience are you looking at? You know what? What? That's the goal. So you're going to learn a bunch on both. And the cool thing for me, you know, and and again hopefully everybody gets the opportunity at some point in their fishing experiences is seeing a lot. Of different water. Right. I think the biggest eye opening thing for me is is fishing from literally the very bottom of the habitat range. All the way to the most northern, I fished tiger Muskies literally around Washington. Seattle just just near minutes from the Pacific Ocean, right? And then on the East Coast. So those are all experiences that I have under my belt where I understand. You know a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. So maybe at some point you consider it's not one or the other, maybe you make time for both because they're they're they're drastically different experiences, right. I would say the Northwoods is going to be more. Because you can hop on different lakes, boat control will be easier. Things of that nature. But like the woods is like the woods. You're on a Canadian Shield lake and and that's where the magic happens. So kind of pick your poison, Jim. The first week of September I went shallow in Minnesota. Water temps were 7°, saw two muskies in low 40s. They're in three to four feet of water and over sand in front of reeds. Jay, that sounds about right. Oh, reeds, shallow water, Minnesota. You got it, baby.
Speaker 2
Yeah, read. Ohh easy.
Steven
Great. A week later, temps are back up to seven. Three, I tried shallow in the deep edge of the weeds, a couple falls and no action. Lots of northern Pike on the weed edge up in the weeds. No muskies. Now what?
Speaker 2
Hello.
Steven
Now what? Well, that's just the ebb and flow of the game, right? You got your hot days. You got your cold days. And I don't mean temperature wise, but you've got you've got a fluctuation and activity level based on climactic changes, things that.
Jay
Which?
Steven
What I would look at is he's saying he's seeing 70 and then he saw 73. Before I would closeout a day where I'm having action. Yeah, shot a couple low 40s. Whatever it is, low, mid 40s. When you're going to wrap up. And you been on good bite. Drive up to where the fish were. Right. And I always encourage people to do this. Once you, let's say you you fished a weed edge, right? You feel like you have saturation. Cast it you have exhausted. That scenario. You can now burn the spot by driving your boat over it or into. It. Get a a. Reed with your trolling motor versus maybe your transom, so you got it. A sonar and your transom, and one of your trolling motor and go. Is it a superficial read? Is it cooler here or is it you know is there a difference between the surface and the trolling motor? Read of two to three feet, right? And take note of that when Muskies are moving, because let's say theoretically you know you saw 70° and it really pushed up shallow, but in reality in that super shallow water it was just, you know a A differential of just a degree or two or whatever it might be right, whereas now where you're reading 73. Is it? Is it? What's the differential? Or is it like the that that shallow segment of the water column, there's no differential between where you're at and where the muskies it's staged, right? Find out. Do a little homework. And that's the hard thing. When when the bite is good, people don't pay attention. Right, people, people check out. They're focused on catching Muskies, which is obviously the cult, but we still need. A lot 5. Freaking seconds to go. What's what is happening today? Let's stop trying to catch 1 and let's analyze in the very moment what is taking place that is influencing this positively. Right. We can all tell each other. We could do a podcast for four days without stopping of things that are bad, right? Right. The ******** and Moaning podcast. Things that are bad. Let's start at jet skis now I'm teasing, but. They they, you know, they got to be seen.
Speaker 2
That.
Jay
But you're right, you know that how many times? You know, people have remarked they were on fire yesterday. Why?
Steven
How come? Yeah.
Jay
What do you figure? What was the deal? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Clouds, you know, or something like that. Maybe it's much detail as that is offered. I.
Steven
Now then.
Jay
Don't know. But I think you're right. I don't think we. You know tend to overanalyze.
Steven
We overheard. No, we overanalyze bad conditions. Yeah, probably. You over. Analyze good conditions. That's when you Start learning more and more. So again.
Jay
What made a great, you know?
Speaker 2
Personal belief.
Steven
Is there a dual temperature read there? Maybe, maybe not. You're seeing Pike on that outside edge, but you're you're not having the musky action looking for. If they're not shallow, you check mid. If they're not mid guess where they're at, they're deep. Right. So we need to check all three phases of the game. Oregon, possibly suspend it. It's Minnesota. So what I would do if if my game plan is not clicking, I assume they're going to be that shallow sand read bite, which is totally a Minnesota thing this time of year. If it's not clicking, you hit that mid thing. You got some. Some follows or whatnot happened there. Go deeper. Right. It's a flick of the tail for them to go out of 6 inches down to 20 feet, right? So. And and like I said, when things are good and this is this is outside of Jim's question, but just generality. Take the time to analyze when things are good. Take the time to analyze. It's 5 minutes. Right. Have a cup of coffee. Stare at a squirrel. What is happening right now is good. Like today, right, Jay, it was miserable, hot, high, bright sun, dead front comp. And then Thunder clouds came. And then there came four Muskies. Well, that's obvious, right? It doesn't take a rocket genius to figure that one out. But when it's nuanced, it's often lost on us. Right. So the more nuanced the buy it is. It it it it just? They're they're on fire today. Like you said, Jack. They're they're moving. That's the difference.
Speaker 2
What do you think?
Speaker 1
Well.
Jay
What about the blue gill guy? There's always a blue gill guy in the area where sea fishing. Ohh, he's up on the edge of the reeds, smoking fish left and right. Remember the blue gill guy when you're in?
Speaker 2
*** ** * *****. Minnesota. Ohh yeah. Oh yeah. There's always one.
Jay
You know well. These are three steps and you know, and if they're catching fish, it's just like.
Speaker 2
Last.
Jay
Attention. What? What Doctor Ed, do you?
Steven
Put putting that. Know what I'm. Putting that quote on your head. There's always.
Speaker 2
A pleasure.
Steven
Great quotes in that. It's true, though it's true and they're, you know, what, they're usually the guy that's blue gill fishing. He's usually so sad. If you go ask. Him how he's doing. He'll talk to you.
Jay
They usually are, yeah. Sometimes they'll talk to you though.
Steven
My wife, my wife Evelyn, left me. I'm out here slaying the. So you know, Sir, why is that blowing around your mouth? I thought I'd catch a few more before I blew my face off. OK.
Speaker 2
$5 for a dozen crawlers with the quick. Charging $1000 Can you believe robbery?
Steven
I'm gonna eat every damn one of them. Henry. Greetings from Canada. As things start to cool down up here, I want to ask you guys about your favorite quick strike rigs and why? You prefer them. Also, what size of suckers do you prefer? Is bigger, better, or it's a snack that way to go quick strike rigs?
Jay
There's a bunch of good.
Steven
Ones there's a bunch of good ones. Can you believe they're charging $5 for a dust and crawlers? I'm gonna burn that place down. Then I'm gonna shoot myself in the parking lot because Evelyn left me because I blew gill fish too much. The Smitty's the Smitty's make a pretty Dang good quick strike. Booker makes a good quick strike. What I will say is. This I make my own. And that is is a FW tooth proof makes the multi strand wire that's coated J.
Jay
Sure do. OK, it's called semi colon.
Speaker 2
There you go.
Steven
There you go. So they. But when you say Babylon 5, what? 71 OK anyway, what I like to do because he he asked about sucker size, right? Sure. I I like to tailor my rigs for the fish as closely as possible, so it just takes a couple quick crimps. And I've got a custom made rig for the approximate size of what I'm fishing. Right. Something that I do with my quick strikes. I use two trebles, that is it. 1 is through their Snoop. I apologize, folks. Jay, just can you hear me?
Jay
Check 1-2 yes.
Steven
I my my phone that. You're plugged into. Just fail. I apologize.
Jay
Did it survive?
Steven
But it it's it's in a OtterBox. It's it's actually my phone is actually held and protected by a live Otter nonetheless. So I use a a custom built quick strikes for the size of the suckers I'm fishing. I put one through their snoot and we did a video on this last year. Watch it if you're wanting to learn how sucker Fish it's on the muskie shop. You know, and then I I I put 1 hook through their lip and then I put like a piece of plastic through the smitty's come like a rubber disc. My redneck trick is like cutting a little like a bottle cap down from a water bottle and jamming that over there. That will prevent the sucker from pulling out of his. Lips he make. A little disc or a square it. Matter pop that over the Barb. He ain't coming off there. Scratch off some scales, put on the other side. Whammo bammo. We got him, right. If you're not comfortable with crimping, which is super easy, but everybody's, you know, you got to get comfortable with everything. I like the Smitty rig because they they they have the little disc in there and the Booker rigs not dissimilar. What what's the, what's the other ones, Jay, if not fish, too many other ones.
Jay
Yeah, another one is the clipping goes from Shumway from fuzzy. So that is running. And nose rig Smitty's offer, though, that too. It's a very popular way to go. And there's really two ways to go. You either use hooks to attach to the sucker in the mouth, generally a single hook is used.
Steven
That's a different. That's a different. Yeah. Explain.
Jay
Whether it's Booker or or traditional. Smitty, rig, you know, a light like Aberdeen, Small Hook and it's just the guide that's just holding that thing and and and driving it straight. When when there is. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the nose rigs are providing the same thing. It's a centralized location boom through the nostrils. The guy called the other day. You might know our buddy Jace, you know? And he was looking at quick setting some Pike because he can't get suckers in the Dakotas and using Pike. So he's like, oh, I shouldn't use a nose rig.
Speaker 2
Yeah. He was next to the Herbeck thing.
Jay
Right. And I'm like, yeah, you know what, you probably try using the knows we're gonna play. It'll it'll probably kill it. I don't know. I've never tried that. But. So yeah, just get a traditional Smitty rig for the length of the fish. And that's what you were talking about earlier. You know, it's just like, match the, you know, going with an 18 inch shocker. A lot of people looked for that. They asked for it on the phone.
Steven
Oh yeah.
Jay
Yeah, the eighteens and 20 twos. Ohh, come. That's an extremely large fish. Yeah. And getting coverage on that on any sucker rig is gonna be, you know, I I think you're gonna. You could get you could get a huge fish hitting that and and you know no iron in the mouth so you know.
Steven
Yeah, you better whack.
Jay
Not to mention plenty of big fish, yet smaller suckers, you know, 12 to 15 inch is a great all-purpose size and any of the rigs, you know the medium or large rigs will provide good coverage treble on each side kind of high on the on the back of the sucker and whatever rig you go with, you know you. Get it? Just. Feel what works for you. The nose rings are pretty easy to use. You know it's not. The nose ring. Started with the AK-8 Herbie rig. Remember those and you had to have a baiting needle and use a rubber band and it.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Jay
Was a.
Speaker 2
It was a little bit much, yeah. Work.
Jay
Yeah, but the rubber band would break. You know, that was the nose guiding principle on that one. Yeah. The the nose clips have taken over. And it's a little more simplistic. Same basic principle though, and they work. They work well for a.
Steven
Lot of people. Here's my thing is like most of my. You know. Lures most of my presentations 8 to 12 inch baits.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven
I mean, if you stretch a pounder out, I'm sure it's 22 inches or whatever. You know, I'm saying like it's in motion. Right. Whatever.
Jay
If you stretch the tail.
Steven
11:50 inch suckers are are more than sufficient in my book. More than sufficient. I get the I've got a 22 inch sucker. I'm going. Out here and every time I got to reel him up to reset him, I get to fight him. I mean, that's where you're at, I mean.
Jay
Provides a little excitement.
Steven
I I've had him before, Dave, where you're like, is that a fish? I'll know the suckers just pulling drag.
Speaker 2
Real.
Steven
Right, you know.
Jay
Click, click. Click. Click. Click.
Steven
Click, click, click right, accept my drags on I in the video I talk about how I said the. Drag and stuff but. Ohh shoot, there's one. There's one. No, but it's a sucker. It can be overkill. Right, it can be overkill. I like to be conservative mid range on the sucker size because. Yes, we all want to catch Donkey Kong, but I promise you Donkey Kong will eat a 12 inch or as fast as he'll eat at. 22 If it's.
Jay
Actively feeding well, what do you do? You think of a big muskie? You know, say something. You know 45 inches and above a really, you know, large muskie is going to look at a map.
Steven
Man, let's go bigger. Let's go bigger.
Jay
So if. I'm talking to average. The average person doesn't encounter 50 inch fish, OK?
Steven
I don't think a 45. Well, I don't think a 45 is gonna. I'm sure somebody.
Jay
'S got the point, Steve, not the point.
Steven
E-mail me, OK.
Jay
OK, let's say it's a big fish. Let's say it's over 30. It's. Let's say it's it's illegal. It's 24. I'm not sure. Must do you think they look? They they're intimidated or are turned off by something that's too big. It's just like I'm not going after that. I want a little bit easier wheel.
Speaker 2
See OK. So let let's talk about this.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven
A 30 inch Musk. We'll start. We'll work our way up. Right. OK, 30 inch muskie. I can. I don't even put my hands under their jaw because my hand doesn't fit in their freaking head. Right? Right.
Speaker 2
Right, right.
Steven
I we trout hold them. If somebody has to have. If if somebody's first muskie or whatever, right, we hold it up. Let it go. Move on with it. 40 incher it's a sizeable mouth, right? It's a sizeable mouth, but take a Frick in the mouth of a 40 and put a 22 and sucker in there. You ain't catching 40s. 45 is a nice fish. Right. It's a nice fish and I might diminishing it. It the IT it is all about experience and and the do not judge me on this. A 45 is a really nice fish in my book. It ain't a big. Fish. Right. If I if I know a body of water, I'm fishing like 45 and again, it's all there. There is also a modicum of where are you fishing? Right. So if we're on a Wildcat right in Boulder Junction, you know, that's what I'm saying. If we're fishing Wildcat in Boulder Junction. I I've I think, Smitty said. They got a four footer out there one time which is like huge for that. Like you don't want a 22 inch sucker on bolt freaking Wildcat, right? Because if you look at what that fish is going to hit versus. You know, on any given day, are we going out in like, in, in, in inland Wisconsin waters, throwing 2 pounders?
Speaker
Poop.
Steven
You can get a follow do it proportionally. I mean a 45 is a great fish. It's a heck of a fish. A lot of people would just just kill their grandma to catch 1 and I get it. You don't need a. Sucker bigger than 12 inches for fish of that caliber, and I think I've caught plenty of of upper 40s low, 50 inch muskies on 10 to 12 inch socks. Mm-hmm. I have. Had grabs. I actually had a sucker Jake years back. This thing lasted 3 days and it hadn't been hit twice. It was huge. It was the last one I had. It was like we nicknamed him in the tank cause like, well, I'm. I'm saving him for the bitter end cause I don't feel confident that thing was just like. Or. Bernie, we called him Tennessee Jim, but none. But he was a big he like I had to actually turn turned. It turned him right back from where I got him. I was like you have done your job. You will probably die. You couldn't set the hook on the fish. And I'm assuming it wasn't that big a fish. So little bit of my thought is yes, a big, big, big sucker will attract a big, big, big muskie. Where you're running into the dynamic of. Am I going to get hook penetration where I personally believe A50 to 55 inch Muskie is definitely happy to eat a 12 incher. Right. And if you look. At the size of their mouth. You know the old the old thing of he came up in his mouth was like a 5 gallon bucket. I think I've heard that ******** before. It's not. It was not the size of a 5 gallon bucket. I promise you. Right.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven
His mouth was, you know, the biggest of the big you open their mouth. It's not 22. And if you if you if you can slide a 22 inch sucker down their throat, right, it is no longer a muskie is a dinosaur.
Jay
Right would.
Steven
Could be I'm saying sideways. They don't have 20, so I err on the side of conservatism again, I'm not going to say 45 is not a big fish. It's a hell of a fish anywhere you go. But proportionately I think you're doing yourself a disservice because you really have to consider. How many fish you're eliminating? Do the size of your presentations right? It's like in the Northwoods Wisconsin. How many people do you know that throw double tins all the time?
Speaker 2
Not a lot.
Jay
It's not as common as in. Other areas for sure.
Steven
Right. And it's it's commensurate to size so.
Speaker 2
Hey.
Steven
I am a master. I apologize guys, I'm sneezing and wheezing. Freaking whatever. But you know, you've got you've got your cult to single sevens, which is great. Got plenty of 88 double nines, but we get bigger. Bigger, bigger, bigger. Whatever you see what I'm saying, it makes sense there anyway. Moving on. Frankie Love the podcast Meow Meow, Frankie says. Relax.
Speaker 2
Steven
He's looking for advised on trolling baits. He says the lake got fish doesn't have huge bait. So I'm fishing. I'm looking for downsized throwing options. You know, I have a couple headlocks couple Matt locks. I feel that downsize base with my best advantage for my ski trolling. Downsize.
Jay
I get it.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Well, heck, well, well timed the boss. Yeah, those shut up. Like I said, there's this seven. I'm pulling it back up.
Speaker 2
Dingy.
Steven
7 inch or there?
Jay
Is 4.5 is very popular, very popular little trolling model. There's a joint model.
Steven
You got that?
Jay
Of it too.
Steven
You got that you got?
Jay
You know, another good one would be a deep 6 inch slammer if you want to get down a little bit, it will be on 10 feet. Rolling that good noisy little.
Steven
That. Yeah. Who doesn't? Everybody wants to get down.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Anyway, you got that. Ah, downsize profiles and we mentioned earlier tough shed, great trolling Bay the like you said, the slam are deep. There's your killer little ernies. Rarely talked about, still a killer. Yep, very inexpensive 1599. Caught a billion muskies on little earnings over.
Jay
The other, yeah, friend that loves that big. It's a big guy. It's a big guide platform or presentation form too. Loves it.
Steven
Yeah. Freaking frosty that he's a freaking he's a little earlier. Obviously. You got your luncheon stuff 20 too short. You know that their stuff kind of falls under those parameters. Heck, I'm looking here and if this was trying to.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven
Because Spanky's been doing some of this stuff right with the grandma, all the M9 and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But you have down to a 4.5 grandma.
Jay
Yeah, it's really downsizing. Yeah, it's a little minnow, little shallow.
Steven
But cool stuff. And then the other thing I was going to point out is this killer. If if you want wonder and you want that. Big Waka waka waka, waka waka waka. Action freaking swim with six.
Jay
MHM. 2 weights, 2 depth settings.
Steven
Yeah, versal, that was that was the that was the.
Jay
Cool.
Steven
The trolling bait forever right still has a place muskies don't know the difference. They don't muskies don't follow trends, but that 6 inch swim with is going to be something I would think about. What else? I'm looking here. Digging through digging in the dirt, obviously your depth Raiders all that stuff would be good. But you know, if you're you're you're downsizing. Like I said, swim whizz it up. Man. That would be my. That would be like probably my one like that. That swim Wiz. That would probably be the first one I would grab. Right, because it's such. I mean, it's just a trolling machine. Right. But you got so much, I mean, heck, I'm looking here. What? Even the Adams customs you've done that the Havocs? There's so many downsized cranks. Go with go with you know. Check out the boss shed stuff if you want. Just like. I know it would work anywhere. Swim with us. Anyway.
Jay
Another weird option too would be slim Bates. If you want to go real shallow like the Vipers, right? Livingston, like the Fish Lab stuff, you're ratic side kicking out of thing, you know, real shallow hide in water.
Speaker 2
Ohh yeah well.
Steven
Column. Well, that's The thing is I I've had really good luck throwing the Vipers. You got that shine glide from savage. Good. That's talked about the other day. That's great. Any of that stuff. But you know, as far as a good proper throwing. Grab this and and I'll say this. If you're a trawler and you've not troubled, swim with us. Do it. Like you gotta have that in your belt. You gotta you gotta grease one on a swim whizz at some point in your muskie fishing career to go. I've done it. Been each fall. My Family Guy at my family and I go north to fish to Minnesota, trying to get my wife on her first muskie. What should I do and what should I not do? So we don't end up in a big fight and she falls in love with muskie fishing.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
I've had that fight in the boat, Jay. We fish for something else.
Speaker 2
No, absolutely. I want to catch something.
Steven
I'll truck. I'll drop you off for that. *** ** * *****. This ***** amount $5. Worms so.
Jay
Charlie's worm shack, Bemidji.
Steven
Bemidji, check it out. Charlie's worm. Jack. We got worms, and they squirm.
Speaker 2
Get in the.
Steven
Tuesdays, 50% off flats. We just, we just don't sell them, we breed them. Anyway, sorry guys, I'm we're we're mentoring.
Jay
Yeah, they're overstocked on. Friable worm bedding. You know, you gotta put.
Steven
The you somehow gotta live lives in a pile of it. We're we're idiots. So muskie fishing can suck and it is a grind house, right? We all know that the first time you take someone that is never musky.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven
Finished. They're going to be excited. This is like guide stuff, right? Everybody shows up with vacation energy as I call.
Speaker 2
It right, they're right. We we're gonna.
Steven
Kill them. No, dude, it's not bright sun. Dead flat comp. It hasn't blown it. You know, they don't get that. Do not take people on grindy fishing experiences. Out of the gate, if you can. Avoid it so. What I've always recommended if you're going to break somebody in, especially with female anger, and I don't mean female angler, it's the wife and he's making it out. Whatever. Right, I've got some ****** female clients I've there's some amazing female Muskie angler. So it's not male. Female. It's like new to it. Whatever. Don't freaking do a sun up to sundown. Fricking hell ride right? Right. Focus on the best times of day, you know, maybe you do sunrise, maybe you don't. You definitely do sunset and keep it easy, right? Don't be like babe. They're on freaking 12 inch Livingston lures. Head hunters jerked left to right and pounders. Right. My number one guide bait is the Steves meat grinder. A small monkey could catch a muskie with that back right. Throw it out, turn the handle fish on him. Keep it simple, as easy as a bucktail might seem to you to a new angler, a double weighted bucktail, and I've I'm a guide I deal with it all the time. You might go. There's no way. Yes, there's a way that people can't get them to go or they have problems with them. When you start muskie fishing, the first bait is a spinner. Right. And a top water. Throw it out. Turn the handle fish on it. That's it, right? That's where I would.
Jay
Start. Yeah. Get them out there on peak times. Like you said, you know, majors and minors. Yeah, if that, you know, if a couple hours before dark, you got a moon, period. It's like, OK, plan on.
Steven
Yeah, don't. Don't freaking. Right. That right right, be strategic and have fun the rest of the day. Again, this is coming from a place.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Of experience where I've taken my spouse and beat her into the ground for 12 hours in Canada. Right. The timing of when we met Jay, not you and I, but my wife. Not correlated to Canada, right?
Jay
Jody Michael.
Steven
Oh, let's go do this. Ohh you you like perch cropping basket. You'll love it through musky torture. All right, you stupid. Alright.
Speaker 1
Most.
Speaker 2
Hell. Way to go, boy. That's my boy.
Steven
You know, keep casting Jody. Yeah. I said you ain't moving. I said Twitch, not RIP. You're. Telling me you're here? You know, keep it simple and keep it fun. And you know what? That is transcendent. That's freaking transcendent, whether it be your wife, whether it be your, your, your dumb cousin Eddie, or your boss, or your, you know, your your wife's boyfriend, whoever you're taking. Just make sure make sure that you keep it light and fun. You know they fall in love with it. They fall in love with it, and then then you can start grinding. The quickest way to ruin it for somebody is to take them on that hell ride and just beat them into the ground DF. I love the show. It helps me pass the time before my trips to North America. I fish in Canada for Muskies when I get the opportunity. I live here. Oh ****, I live here in South Africa. Obviously there's no muskies keep up the great work, lads love DF. Whoa, no question. That's cool. Didn't expect that one. I'll take it though.
Speaker
Awesome.
Steven
Jay Jay is. Available to go to South Africa at any moment. You would have fun with that. Jason. What are your favorite muskie glide bats for fall Jay?
Jay
Musky glide baits for fall. Little bit bigger than the small 6 inch stuff. Go with the regular hellhound.
Speaker 2
Can't beat that? Yeah.
Jay
If you had like gates, yeah, it didn't get any easier than that, yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, it's worth talking fall. Yeah.
Steven
Right. Don't come out with your 6 inch. I mean they'll work, but 6 inch phantom, 6 inch tail go with the eighter. Yeah, that's all.
Jay
The bigger profile you thought would go with that 75 phantom. That's a soft tail that's got a same type glide kick the kick. Oh, geez, there's some.
Steven
For me, it's going to be the hot tails.
Jay
Hot tails, big smileys. Those are really good. There's seven or an 8 inch model. Go with those. Got nice little wiggle and and twitch. The side kind of action.
Steven
I I I said well the answer.
Jay
What else, Steve?
Steven
Becomes. This is it, it's. The choice of glide Bates is gonna be based on conditions. Right, so smartly run shallow, but if it it's fall, we're on bigger profile baits in the muscular shallow smelt will be perfect where it's they're holding deeper on a break or deeper on on on a structural cover thing whatever it is you know a heavier glider like the hot tails might be more applicable. So it's not a A1 size fits all scenario right? Because it's a matter of buoyancy rate of fall. More so than just about anything else. Right. We don't want to run a a one of the shallowest glide base I'm aware of is and I'm not knocking to catch tennis official river run man to s s right?
Jay
MHM.
Steven
That is the. Super shell. You do not want to do that when Muskies are staged in a cold front in the fall. On 1015 foot breaks that that makes no sense.
Jay
Right, it does cause you're gonna be, you know, too far or how. Yeah, that. Up in the weeds.
Steven
Like I was about to say, dude, that was said. I'm moving them up in the reeds in Minnesota, which is inches. That that, that dog will hunt son. Right. So that is a applicable guide for fall under that circumstance?
Speaker
Right.
Steven
Right. Which is you can tell I've been writing the next book at this point I'm preaching guys, it's coming anyway, but it's the it's the application. Right. Bait. Yeah. Excuse me. The baits application or it's it's it's value to you is dictated by properly using it when conditions are appropriate.
Speaker 2
All right.
Steven
As simple as that. So a manta super shallow. Glide bait could be the best fall glide bait for four days of your season, followed by the heavier action of like a hot tail's fishtail. Could follow that up if climactic conditions. Point you in that direction. That's true, you know, and I've been thinking about this much. You can. I've just been up by own freaking just over analyzing everything. I was on the phone with Doctor Bob. Yeah. I mean, it's good. Crazy Town where I'm at. And I get asked all the time by the folks on the boat and we're going to this. I'm going to this hungry thing and like. You know, with the weights, what's up with the weight system? Everything with the weights, the. The crack in the because I don't want to freaking have to think about it. If they're on 8 inch tightens, I just want to turn around tomorrow and go. They've been hitting this profile on this action. I want to get it exactly where I I want to get it.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steven
Where it needs to be. Right. And that's my problem with like we talk certain bait classes, right? Where that S. Manta. Is only valuable to me as an angler in very narrow bandwidth, right? That's a very narrow band that that bats value to. Me. Whereas I have some custom made gliders that are heavier than freaking. It's like throwing a bowling ball and they're only valuable to me on that. On that flip side of that coin. If you will. So for me it's about having baits that have as much traction as much value through all conditions. Because I'm telling right now on the best of days Muskies go shout in the fall. And the best of days in the summer, Muskies go shallow. And the worse they go deep, it's it's nothing. 20 feet is nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing with it. That's that. That's one of the hardest things, I think, for people to get through the head. It's like, OK, my boat is 21 ZJ, right? You're you're freaking. You look across your your house, or you look across the room or whatever. Or the car you're sleeping in. Is it 20 feet? So you know, that's not a huge move for a fish, however. It is a huge amount of water that we have to cover when we have such a narrow vibrational profile and visual range. You see what I'm saying?
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven
20 feet away. Whatever. I'll, we'll get there. But you know, whatever. You see what I'm saying, Mandy? Female masking go here. Thanks for all the tips. Wonder if this is this guys. The guy's wife and she's like I hate my. I'm teasing. I don't wanna go fishing with him. Teasing. Mandy, female masking. We're here. Thanks for all the tips. I'm looking for a new reel. It's the one I have. Seems too big for me and it's hurting my wrist. I have a Saint Croix legend. Charming elite. But I'm using a revo beast. Love Steve's book, love all the great songs you guys make me giggle, Jay. You make somebody giggle. Legend, Terminal elite. That's a super light rod. Great rod and the the Revo Toro beach. That's what, 400 size?
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven
Yeah. Well, we get down from every we talk. I tell you right now off the top of my head. Drink 300. Yeah, it'll.
Jay
- 300. Feel a lot.
Speaker 2
But it's still rigged.
Jay
Those bees, they sit, they sit kind of high. I'm not knocking them. They say higher feeling than even the drinks 400, even most of the I've got some fantastic die was like as well.
Speaker 2
Frame.
Jay
You know those TW's? It's a smaller, lighter fueling platform.
Speaker 2
They're great.
Steven
I'll say it's funny because I did. I was been so kind to help out with reals last couple of years and and so all my client reels and all my my guide rails right now are TW's and Pro rexes.
Jay
Think you'll be happy with? Either one of those.
Steven
Right. With the T wing bar and all that's. Wonderful. I picked up. I love the real don't get me wrong, the old white abuse. Right, the the Revo was it Revo solo, yeah. Or at Revo S? That was my real forever. You couldn't pry that on my freaking hands.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Jay
*****. No, I think so.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven
I picked one up for the day and physically in my hand went holy crap, it felt heavy verse. How much weight reductions happened between that and and and and the pro racks. Sure, sure. And I'm not big on like ohh the real way, but I get it. If you're, you know, everybody's physicality is different, right? So there's no like one answer. I mean, if you're 6 foot 15. You know, and it's like, Tim, my buddy from the Netherlands, he could pull him a fricking tranks 500 if he wanted to. He's a giant buddy. Fish is a 400 and it's probably it's. It's not a big deal for him, but. The the the one thing. And we always say this all the time. I don't believe personally. And I'm not talking like Chinese, you know, and stuff like that. That's on the market. I'm talking like Daiwa Shimano, Abu Garcia, akuma. All the different brands right now. I think they all make really good reels. So it it's. Hard for me at a lot of junctures where you know, a couple years back in the podcast, I'd say do this, do that, do that. I feel like all the reels are pretty Dang good right now.
Jay
Well, that's the thing. I mean, I I look at the, the the last four reels that I've bought, I mean, I'm slowly progressing into the you know, the twenty 20s here, Steve. You know, inch by inch. It's just like, you know, in the last five years, the amount of. All the type changes that have occurred and and gone into the engineering of all these reels, but everything you mentioned, they're fantastic.
Steven
Right in the. Whether it be weight reduction, whether it be balanced on the rod.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm. Blah blah, blah blah blah.
Steven
Blah, it's great. I mean, if you do look at, OK, we'll get to your question, man, I swear. But we.
Jay
Yeah, well, size, yeah.
Steven
Always grab a hold here. Remember the first dial, Alexis the blue ones. Versus what we have now? Wait, if you know I'm saying it was a far larger reel. Yeah. So they're getting smaller. They're getting lighter, and and they're as strong, if not stronger. Blah blah blah. So. We always say it and I always kind of lean towards it's about the, the, the comfort level for you. I would say flat out. Probably for most people, the most comfortable reel is the 400 tranks. Like it kind of transcends. I'd say the Pro Rex frame is slightly larger than the the 400. I mean, talking ever since slightly right, whereas like the the the current model, which I I'll tell you what I'm it's interesting. I'll see it in Budapest if they got that what because of booze, got new stuff coming out. So I want to see what they're doing. Right. Hopefully they're there. But. If I'm a, if I and I have these in the boat for female anglers. Uh, my wife has one the the the the trunks 300.
Jay
That's what Jody uses primarily for, since she mostly got it.
Steven
She's actually she well for Muskie and then she has a she's got a freaking 150.
Speaker 2
Which is just.
Jay
Steven
It's awesome. It's like a excuse me. It's like a DX150 from Shimano. It's kind of a. Yeah, it's a. It's like a hyped up bass reel from hell, but. But for Muskie, she's doing the 300 and I have 300 for. For, for for female clients children, things of that nature. Or people just smaller people. Whatever, it doesn't matter. We all come in different shapes and sizes. If you if you hang out the truck stop long enough, you'll you'll you'll realize that.
Jay
Mm-hmm.
Steven
We're all different. But we're all beautiful. But. That would be my go to for a female angler. The same thing. However, I would say what is it is the. Shiite, it's the Kuma. No, it's the pin pin had the.
Jay
The fathoms will.
Steven
Now the other ones, the smaller ones, I can't remember the name. I don't even know if they make them anymore. Doesn't matter. That would be my thing is, is that's going to be the go to go with the. Forget about it. Go with the Shimano 300. It's bulletproof, it's perfect. You know, I that's where I'm at. Personally, I can say this Jays like the I have the dial of 500. I can't remember the TW.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jay
No, no, no. It's like Alexa 500.
Steven
Or whatever. Yeah, huge. It's great real.
Jay
It's huge. Yeah, it's a big platform.
Steven
Real big platform, so you know it's applicable when it's applicable, however.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven
The Iowa are swimming Shimano Tranks 300. That'll get you done. Whatever, Vince. I'm a creeker from West Virginia. Creeker wanted to know when you when, when you guys think the best time to check out? Wisconsin. Mainly central Wisconsin would be looking to plan a trip next year. Thanks in advance. Jay, take it away. When's the best time for central?
Jay
Ch. From Wisconsin, I wonder where he's fishing. Uh.
Speaker 2
Peeping or I don't know.
Jay
Stuff like that, probably the river system. I don't know. There's not quite that. There's not a lot of lakes varieties in there. I mean, there are some, but the best. Depends. You know if you're going for.
Steven
He's talking for an extra generality, though. He's talking for next year.
Jay
Early season, depending on how the weather situates, you know the first couple, everything's a little bit ahead of northern Wisconsin. In central Wisconsin there there is a noticeable difference. I mean it's it's it's closer to the southern Wisconsin range, which really kicks in a good two weeks.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Jay
For us, if not 3. Weeks, judging strictly from ice out and and, you know 6-7 eight 10° warmer every day it makes a big difference in May. So the first week of June could be excellent, especially if you're fishing river systems, getting that quickly warming water.
Speaker 2
Well, if he's.
Steven
A creeper? He could do that, baby.
Jay
Yeah, right there. There's a lot of opportunity there, a lot of river stretches that contain big fish too. So that's a great time of the year, let's say, right, between Memorial Day and say the second week of June to an early season trip and probably right about now say mid-september. And that would be another good option for for a good action.
Speaker 2
So.
Steven
Or early or late. Essentially. Yeah, for that.
Jay
Farming it gets really hot, you know? And if, if, especially if you're fishing river systems, you know, if it's a hot summer, you could run into some slow periods in the middle of summer.
Steven
Well, that's that's anything for sure, but that'd be cool. I mean, you just don't hear a term in saying it out loud. You hear about, you know, Madison Chain, all the stuff in the house South and then you hear anything, you know, freaking Hazelhurst Minocqua Eagle River, all that stuff, North Central. It's maybe it's got.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
Steven
Family there, Jay.
Speaker 2
May help.
Jay
Well. You know. Yeah. I mean, hey, experience flober baby. I mean, look for the famous water well.
Steven
Maybe. What you could go see the Tommy Bartlett magic show. I see I see signs for that every time I'm driving up, so that would be. That's cool. So go early, go late. Here comes Kenneth.
Jay
The Dells is not far away.
Steven
I know this might be dumb, but can you explain what tannic water is? I live in an area where all of our water waters are very clear, and I've never heard the term used outside the podcast and some musky videos. I know I'm an idiot. Don't make fun of me, we would never. Kenneth doesn't know what tannic water is. Me, now, I don't deal with with lunch, tannic water, myself, until I'm up in the north. Tanic water is water that is stained by the tannic acid of pine trees. Intent and it creates this kind of brown look. Jay, why don't you, Mr. Northwoods? Explain.
Jay
Common in flowages, there are some lakes that have bizarre tannic water that one we fished last year last year two years ago, we went out there several times. The one that's very shallow and very dark, almost a blackish water with really low visibility. I'm talking like under a foot. That's kind of uncommon. I mean, generally tanic water around here you're you've got 3-4 feet visibility. Which is no. I consider that moderate visibility. I like that personally, you know. Gin. Clear water can be tougher. Tougher to fish. You know, fish are spookier and and they generally, you know, have it deeper, deeper zones and they're they're harder to target. So when fish are active, tannic water. Could be the trick too. I mean and if it's spring, it warms up faster and absorbs sunlight. Way that you know super heats it quick.
Speaker 2
Right.
Jay
Yeah, there's there's a lot of. There's a lot of options around here that have tannic water. It's not all Gin Clearwater, although we have that too. We have deep, clear lakes that are Canadian, like, you know, with rock, and that they're the whole deal. And in limited vegetation. But tannic water usually has, you know, they're generally good weed lakes. To where the weeds will grow. To 10 feet plus 12 feet. Unlike some of the deep clear lakes around here, they're more I consider more infertile, and that weeds don't grow in abundance. And you know, you don't have that thick, dense weed. Growth, with the exception of a few that have mill foil, we're seeing that on a few lakes like that one we fished out by Eagle River, which got inhabited by milfoil. It's kind of rare around here, but it's starting to happen here on a few lakes, and that stuff is incredible. And you see that in Clearwater, and you have these mats of vegetation. Litter. Really that go from the top to the bottom of the lake, 10 feet, 12 feet down. Right. So they've got. There's vertical, there's. Literally, vertical walls of vegetation, which is not. Not something that that lake normally is going to has ever had historically, so. Imagine it's incorporating some huge changes to the fishery.
Steven
Exactly. So I just looked here just to double check the Google says you will have tannic water in the South too, because of Cypress trees. So it's a vegetation, think tan.
Jay
So effect OK.
Steven
It's. So a little bit of that marshy swampy guy, I think. Yeah, it's just a coloration. You know, it it just changes things. I think in some capacity where, you know, I'm not changing my taxes entirely, but light penetration is different. Things change up quite a bit. Greg, excuse me. I'm dying here, Jay. Uh, that's the last time I eat a French dip before the pog jig, rippers, or the New Saint Croix rod for jigging. Thoughts. Thanks. OK.
Speaker 2
Greg.
Jay
Well, they're both going. To be removable now, so that's a plus.
Steven
Neither. But anyway I I am of the school of neither.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven
Just tell I've said it before.
Speaker
Steven
Rotate your radius in your armor. Right and set the hook. Because Jay, make a hand, right? Like you're holding a big Ripper. Move it up and down. OK, what does that look?
Speaker
Was it?
Speaker 2
Like.
Steven
Awkward, awkward anyway. I prefer to hold the floor grip right so I can really lean into the bicep on the hook set and sit across the body while jigging. Yeah, that's me. I don't know. Big companies are taking the leap, Jay. You said Saint Croix's coming out. They got jig Ripper things. All that's.
Jay
Yeah, Saint Croix's making the move on. Well, they discontinued their musky mojo and they discontinued the the tournament series. Those are done. And there's not many left at the shop. So yeah, they're both going to have. They're both going to come out with a grasp. They call it the grasp handle system. And that's on the way.
Speaker 2
Good news. Get him.
Jay
It's supposed to be. This year. Or we don't know when. So. Yeah, that that's a removable. Handle 2 sizes, little tiny one and about the original size that the tournaments had this last year that were fixed and a decent size handle now.
Steven
Too small, no.
Jay
Not large, still a little bit smaller than.
Speaker 2
Here they are.
Steven
The jig, there's my thing. Yeah, Saint Croix. Ohh, Saint Croix. Saint Croix, Saint Croix, Saint Croix. I've had that size handle in the palm of my hand in the store. It literally Jay. If I grab that like a jig Ripper or pistol grip, it comes to the center of my palm. That's it. Not enough meat there. Not enough is what you're saying, OK? Once again, Jay. Pretend you're holding a jig. Gripper, right? And then thrust at your face. See how you can set the hook.
Speaker
MHM, MHM.
Steven
But I'm just saying I don't feel that that is a substantial enough handle. That's my opinion. Sorry it is what it is.
Speaker 2
Flat out.
Steven
You know, I'm holding. I've held those in my hands and gone. OK. Is that enough for me to transfer power? Across the board, changing my physicality, changing the dynamic. Of a hook set.
Jay
Because what I'm envisioning with this being kind of a smaller handle like you're like you're describing here is that half the power is directed to the handle and the other half is directed to the two fingers that are still on. The foregrip.
Steven
Well, for me it's. Like I said, rotate your hand. Right. You're so you're radius and you're on a turn in your arm and you focus on. You focus on a a different motion, right? So with the jig Ripper style things, right? If you think of setting that up, it's less natural to me to go across my chest than when when I'm. If I'm holding the foregrip of rod. It's a much more bicep movement to me. At least you know I'm. I'm not freaking.
Speaker 2
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Steven
That's where I'm at. Moving on, Dave.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Steve love, the crack and any plans for a 7 inch model, yes. Take the scissors and cut 3 inches off. That's what I do. That's a little ninja trick, Jay. That's a big trick. Yeah. So, when? When? And. If you look the way this bait was made. The crack and and so the way the the wire, it protrudes out of the back. And the way it sits in the skirt, you can cut 3 inches off the skirt and have a hook set. Flush right there. I think I said it before, but you can do that super easy because you have the same. Diameter on a 7 inch model. Trim it back. Take the split ring off, Shorten Shank, Shorten the Shank on your hook and you're in the game. Robert, I keep getting leaky crank baits. Any tips for fixing them? No matter how many? Of a certain brand. I'll pass on that. I buy. They all seem to leak. I'd buy them from different stores, not just the Muskie shop. I'm not upset. Just don't know how to fix them. How do we fix a leaky crankbait Jay?
Jay
That can be difficult. You got to assess where the leak is. You got to get all the moisture out of there. Two ton epoxy over the crack or the seam would be one way to do it.
Steven
Well, it's tip with. The hook hangers.
Jay
The typically in the hooking area, OK, He's talking about.
Steven
The model, the model he's talking about, right? Yeah. What I do with any like plastic crank bait that is joined together. They're hypersonic sealed. It's not a bad practice to drop a little super glue under the hook hanger. That's where the water is. And then get all the water out by shaking it like a fool. Take the hooks off. Shake it like a fool and get the water out. Let it dry for a couple days and put some. Put some super glue in there. It is not one of my baits, Ryan. I love shallow invaders, but my hooks keep getting caught on each other. Should I do the mod where I see people adding a bar that I've seen in videos? It seems like it adds weight to the bait and is a little complicated. What's your best idea to stop the hooks from hanging, tangling, flat out, love showing better grade back? Take the rear hook and jam it in the tail. Right. But yeah, but do it in the manner.
Speaker 2
The easiest.
Jay
Way to fix.
Steven
That you got a little play in the split ring. You don't. You don't want to. Be real tight, yes. Right. Shove it in the meat of the tail. But the split ring has a smidge of play, so it won't impede the action. You will not hook fell again. You don't need to mod the bait. You don't need to do all this weird stuff. Stick the rear hook in the tail. You're done. The other thing talk about bait. What I like to do. And shell invaders because. I've shell invaders hold up very. I will just take super glue and pull the tail back just to spin and drop the Super glue in there just to really secure that guy up too. So I'm not worried about like the tails pulling out or anything of that nature. 99% they head hunt that bait. Right. So just jam the freaking hook in the back of the tail.
Jay
And be done with it. I'd recommend that because it will work its way out after a while. So yeah, that's all you need to do.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
It is what it is, Mr. Nelson. Ohh. We got a Mr. on the show, Jay. Hello I enjoy listening to your show as I'm a lifelong muskie angler. I'm about to turn 70 and still like hearing all your zany stories and all the new tactics and baits. Oh, that's cool. I know that he's not the oldest listener, though. Jay, your dad beats him. He's only he's only turning 70. He's rookie. Rookie numbers, they say.
Jay
Which? Numbers. Yeah, right.
Steven
He said. I know there are so many new baits so I wanted to ask you 2 fellas what old bats do you still? Use. I hope my tackle box is not just a collection of antiques that my children will have to throw. Go out. What a cool, quick. Mr. Nelson, thank you for listening. Appreciate that. Very cool old baits that are still gold, Jay. So works Suic absolutely Cisco kids. You know, the Booker staff, obviously. But.
Jay
Yeah, I've got some decorators when they came out and probably when they come out 92 or something like that, I remember.
Steven
Maybe even let's go older than that though.
Jay
That I still use. Giant jackpots.
Steven
Pose giant jackpot, baby.
Jay
Yep, got some super old ones.
Steven
Tom loves bermex.
Jay
Breaking open the.
Steven
All the Lakewood.
Jay
Of Doom, the Lakewood of Doom. Ohh, baby. No, I'm not going to talk. About that one. There's some crazy stuff in.
Steven
Here, Steve's been dead since 74.
Jay
Crazy old reef fogs. Crazy old, you know.
Steven
Reflux, we talk about that.
Jay
Stuff you can't find anymore. Crazy old grammas.
Steven
That's your favorite crazy old grandmas, isn't it?
Jay
Handmade stuff.
Steven
What? What? What's something you still use? He doesn't want to know what you collected.
Speaker 2
Safe.
Steven
Something that is old school as heck that I still use. That has served me with it, always been the freaking and he just passed. What's the gooches freaking tallywhacker baby?
Jay
The number.
Speaker 2
One goal is how.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steven
Gooches tallywhacker. It is a tail prop bait. It sounds different from all the rest that works. The pose giant jackpot that that plays in my game. We've talked about reef hog, that's a different experience, right? There's nothing wrong with it, but like, don't expect left to right, obviously. So it's have been around since the dawn of time. They were invented before Muskies were invented. What else, Jay? What? What's something? That's like kind of 70s. This guy's turning 70. He's muskie fishing in the back of.
Speaker 2
Ohh my gosh.
Jay
That 70s would be probably swim loses.
Speaker 2
There you go.
Steven
We talked about it earlier. That's my call swim with still got him in the.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jay
Boat I'm going 9 inch sewer like it said so that's fine but I still use yeah.
Speaker 2
That would be it. Hey.
Steven
Can't go wrong there. Your tackle box is not all antiques. They still play. Thank you for listening, Mr. Nelson. Much appreciated. Sean. Look at the upgrade. All of my trolling reels. I troll 4 in total. What is the best option? That you feel is. Better than the cuma convectors that I currently have. What do you think, Jay Convectors fine trolling. They're just big.
Jay
Yeah. Good basic real. There are some good Dias. I'm trying to think of what the model is on those and the cool thing about trolling reels is that you don't even have to spend half the price on a good casting drill, you know?
Speaker 2
No.
Jay
That's what's awesome about it is you can get set up for, you know, a fraction of the cost of a brand new trains or something, you know.
Steven
I'm looking at what ways. And and I get it. It's like with the with the convectors. I ran them forever with being a lefty, right? Being a lefty, right? But being a left is an angler, correct? That was the only option I have for a long time. And then I am with Diawara. So I'm running the Diawara line counters. And they're great. But I'll I'll say this. I would the jump. From the convector to the cold water. Is a big jump and as far as quality in in downsizing the entire profile, the Kuma.
Speaker 2
Cold water. Yeah, yeah.
Steven
That I mean the the convectors are 109, the cold water is 13999. The Penn rival line counter is about the same size, slightly smaller, but not like kind of a downsize from the convector. But then Akuma has the convector low profiles. Right. So if you, the kumas have served you well, they make the low profile convectors, which is a smaller platform. So Akumas kind of got the the the the CAP by the proverbial tail right now. Because the next step up from that is you get into like the Shimano takota or the dial Alexa. Right. So for for musky great trolling reels, there's not a ton of options because it it just is what it is. What do you think, Jay? Like if. OK, you're the you're and I get it. Convectors are big. And you you feel like you should be fishing on wicked tuna with that real. It's a huge reel.
Jay
Yeah, I'm not sure why he's done with them, is it? If it's it's, it's the sheer size. Because I mean, you're not casting.
Steven
Well, he's the one that he said he wants to I I'm assuming he said he wants to upgrade. The one thing I'll. Say they're slow. They're like 401 or something. Right. So they're, I I ran them for years. I got my own qualms. They're bigger. And hell, they're hard to store. They hold 7 billion miles of line and reeling in a Jake with 100 feet out takes, I mean, literally you could have a birthday before you get back to the boat.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Steven
So.
Jay
Yeah, that's been my take away on those darn line counters is the one thing is most of them are offered in really low gear ratio. It's like come on, guys 4, two to one. Really, you're cranking your brains out trying to, you know, pick up line when you got a you know when you got.
Speaker 2
Well.
Steven
Some if those are the the two negatives of of what, we'd say that, that that sign. But there's nothing wrong with them. I've caught more. The majority of my trolling fish have all come on a cumin convector of the big ones, right?
Jay
A fish on. It's like, come on.
Steven
Just because I've been with with Dias less, however, they served me well, but it's just slow real. OK, so we're looking at 4, two to one on the cold water Akuma. Right. But it's a smaller profile. The Pro Rex line counter, that's a six one to one. Real. And it's a far smaller profile. So the upgrade you can make from the CONVECTOR would be a smaller profile with a higher line pickup, right? So the cold water.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven
Like I said, there's about where you're at as far as real speed. To the convectors you already have. Whereas let me check this one here.
Jay
Well, there is a connector, a high speed conductor that we have out now too, so that's got real high speed back up.
Steven
25 four yeah, so you could go with a low profile. Convector the pro racks or the Dakota and the Dakota is 10 bucks cheaper than the dime where the the Dakota is kind of like. The Cadillac of of trolling reels? Really. In my opinion, it's kind of a ridiculously nice trolling reel. I think that's what the tube screamer runs.
Jay
I think he.
Speaker 2
Does I mean, you know?
Steven
That's what I would run it.
Speaker 2
For in the musky shop, you know?
Steven
It's over real. It's really not that bad. I'm just picking. But so if if you're going for the convector, let's downsize their profile and let's speed up. Our line pickup, so really that's going to be your your options there. You've got the dial with Saltus. What's this? I've not had one of those in. My hands the. Saltus, what's the size of that J cut in your hand?
Jay
Saltus is a. It's a high sitting reel.
Steven
Is that OK?
Speaker 2
So what? Yeah, yeah, that.
Jay
Would be probably if you want to upgrade your you you're talking smaller, lighter, great, great quality and the things got a high speed retrieve. So I think problem. Called with that one right there, which is what? That's one or two.
Steven
Colder. Yeah. Can't go wrong. I mean, it's a wicked. I mean, it's as good as they.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Get.
Steven
That it's as good as they get.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Jay, we have rambled on, ramble on, really endlessly. Well put. However, we appreciate all the questions. I'm sure you guys will have a ton more.
Jay
We do have some guys in the shop Friday. One guy from. Finland and his wife, I didn't even tell you about that. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Neat couple. Yeah. What? He finishes up where? Where you guys went up by Tim. He finishes the summary.
Steven
Yes. Sure, something. Yeah, I'll be the. I'm going to try. I'm going to e-mail the guy. There's a guy in London that it was crazy because look in the other ones, there's a guy that that came over and we hooked, hooked up and had a drink. Well, was in, in, in Amsterdam. That's a podcast guy and we're we're just ************ about stuff and then like. There's a guy in London we got. I'm gonna try to meet up with, cause they have, like, the world's craziest layover. So yeah, it it blows my mind and like the the e-mail from South Africa really like it kidding me. So we we were appreciate it. I appreciate all the support Jay doesn't, which is something we'll talk about.
Jay
Regal.
Steven
Jay Jay's kind of mean, but anyway, Jay, just next week.
Jay
MHM.
Steven
Hopefully we can recap. The comings and the goings of the the biggest fishing show and on the entire continent of Europe, see what's happening there. Maybe, maybe I'll just have some pepsis and jump in the fish tank. What do you think?
Speaker 2
Jay
- Well, we'll be safe, man. It's a long. Trip. Can't wait to hear.
Steven
About it, nothing scares me.
Speaker 2
Baby, say goodnight Jade later.
Jay
Done right guys. Thanks a lot. Bye.
Speaker 1
I can't get to sleep much longer. Expecting it to survive. Boldly, and the major just waiting to arrive. Shopping all my books. Right. My pole position well.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
Stand out and turn them widely on. When time will tell.
Speaker 2
She got.
Speaker 1
It's just a broken top one up.
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 252: New Magnus Swimbait User Q+A
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 251: Is it Fall? Danny and Steven Herbeck and Ramblings
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 250: Fall Musky Game Plan
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 249: Fall Transition Muskies
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 245: Canada Post Bash Hangover
MUSKY 360 PODCAST EPISODE 244: WISCONSIN DEATH TRIP
MUSKY 360 PODCAST EPISODE 243: Super Mega Sized Musky Talk
MUSKY 360 PODCAST Episode 242: Live Imaging The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 239: Figure 8 Lure Co. plus User Q+A
