Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 239: Figure 8 Lure Co. plus User Q+A
Podcast Transcript
Steve:
Alright folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast, Jaybird.
Jay:
There is Steve.
Steve:
I am so sorry to hear about your current legal troubles.
Jay:
What? No. What now?
Steve:
Jay got pops selling weed to the blue hairs down at the bingo hall.
Jay:
Oh.
Jay:
Ohh come on. Where Dad comes from, that's what I wanna know. Hello.
Steve:
I don't. I don't freaking down there. There to bingo all. Just slinging anyway.
Jay:
They got a bingo hall on Saint Germain. Don't joke.
Steve:
I guarantee, dude, if they're, I mean, I've never seen it, but if there's not a bingo hall in the North woods, I'll eat.
Speaker 5
You bet you do.
Steve:
Your shoes, we're we're.
Jay:
Going when you come up next.
Steve:
Are you serious? We.
Jay:
Should. Yeah. We're going, man. You're you like bingo.
Steve:
Dude. Ohh heck freaking we will dude imagine. Just think here for a second. Putting dreamy music. The wonderful people will meet at Northwoods. Bingo.
Jay:
Yeah, that they're, they're not going.
Steve:
To know what hit them, find out what day of the week is we will film it and we will go. That is amazing. So anyway, yeah, you had some rocking and rolling conditions over the weekend. You were out on the J mobile. What was cooking there, baby?
Speaker
Jay:
Well, briefly, yeah. Real windy weekend again. Go figure. Hello. Yeah. Today was a high of 54.
Steve:
Really.
Jay:
With land. Yeah, they got a frost advisory.
Jay:
Come on. Not kidding, man. Yes.
Jay:
They're saying bring in the rutabaga. Cover the. Fall. Get at the very least, you let that freeze.
Steve:
Folks, get here. And yard and hunch over your strawberries. They're they're the elder. Think about the elderly that are right now over top their perennial.
Jay:
Up on you. So.
Jay:
Jay. Yeah. Yeah, it's not panic time, but.
Steve:
Oh my God.
Jay:
It's close.
Steve:
With close folks don't, don't put put. Take the gun out of your mouth. But we're almost there.
Jay:
Don't do it.
Steve:
Don't do it, Henry anyway.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steve:
Son of a gun. Jay, I was looking today. I pinked around. I was trying to find follow up so. A couple months ago we ran this intro and it was literally people. Couple of people asked me about it. It was the literal newscast from the North Woods about this guy that finds the gift card of the what was the dumpster card of Destiny you called us, he finds.
Jay:
Yes, I believe so, yes. Was the Menards gift card.
Steve:
Yeah. And he claims in a dumpster and now he's being. As the reporter said, an arrangement in a I think we call them arraignments down here. Jays had quite a few of them over. The years but.
Jay:
Text me once a week just about. Just like, hey, any follow up news on this piece? And I have looked and looked and looked and I can't find anything on it but.
Steve:
Not yet, folks. We will bring you the latest break in Northwoods News once we find out happened to this guy that found the the dumpster gift card of destiny. I'm trying, Jay. It eats me out, but literally 4:00 in the morning I'll wake straight up. What happen?
Jay:
Yeah. MHM. That's a great story, and he's a great piece, yeah.
Steve:
It's the most Northwoods thing I've ever heard. Anyway. Speaking of the greatest Northwoods event of all time, the Muskie Shop Bash is wind, Jay.
Jay:
July 20th. That's a Saturday. Starts around noon. It's at the musky shop in Minocqua, WI.
Steve:
And where is it? Where else would it be near? Ding Dong, hey.
Jay:
Yeah, our newly. Even more expanded parking lot. You haven't seen it. It is huge. So yeah, we got a giant spread PA system. The whole works, you know, it's going to be great. 30 some vendors close to three dozen vendors, including Figure 8. Must I mean, musky innovations? All the all the guys that you know like Shiman, Daiwa, Okuma, you know the the big guns. That that have all the rods and reels and Saint Croix and list goes on and on. There's a bunch of them. So there's going to be massive specials and it's like, I don't know if anyone's going to leave up.
Steve:
Will you? Will you be?
Jay:
Empty handed too. With in terms of our free raffles, because we've got a lot of stuff to give away. So we'll figure out an efficient way to give away. Lots of lures. They're. They're mainly lures. You haven't seen what's coming in, Steve, but bunch of cool stuff and experimental stuff from some of these guys, you know, like Toothy Tuff sent a little grab bag just the other day. Some cool soft plastics. You're not getting any of them, by the way.
Steve:
You had me a crap fact freaking I get well up from Dan. I can just text him, baby. Anyway, here's my thing.
Jay:
I knew it.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steve:
Let's talk about things that aren't happening. That would be cool with the bash everybody gets.
Jay:
Steve:
Free boat. What else, Jay?
Jay:
Dancing classes from Elmer.
Steve:
Dancing classes for Elmer. What else do we have here from Elmer Elmer?
Jay:
Well, everyone knows that if you've been to any one of the what three previous bashes, you know that Fred’s cooking technique is off the charts. So you got Fred’s Wieners, Freddy's brats, burgers. We've got the our new. Collectors energy, drink Northwoods Hawg Sauce.
Steve:
Get hound the hog. I was just thinking it'd be cool. What if we had Rooster fights?
Jay:
Well, Steve. Umm, we have to some get some kind of enclosed pan though. Umm, I don't know if Jim would go for that because that gets messy.
Steve:
We need to ask him can we have Roosters?
Jay:
Yeah, right. Right. Right. Is it legal?
Jay:
Steve:
Some part of where I'm at, I'm sure I I don't. The ones I've been to, I've never asked the legality.
Jay:
Sure it is down there. Ohh yeah.
Jay:
Of. Idiot.
Jay:
This sounds like a West Virginia thing, man.
Steve:
Breaking back Home boys, I was born at the Rooster fights and on died at the Rooster fights anyway.
Jay:
No, this is not for.
Steve:
God, I'm just I'm the ADD is on fire. Folks, something that I saw that showed up.
Jay:
Steve:
That gave me the heebie freaking jeebies. By the way.
Jay:
Something that showed up OK.
Steve:
At the old Muskie shop. There is a black rice depth rater now.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steve:
Connor. Ohh yes, black ice.
Jay:
Black ice. Yeah. My apologies. Pretty cool. Guilt weight.
Steve:
Yeah, I there's an. Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of cool.
Jay:
Yeah, we got 3. More custom colors since we last talked that came in Thursday or Friday and.
Steve:
They have that on the 8 inch straight. Hold on, yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, 8 inch straight jointed, 6 inch straight jointed, shallow Raiders, jointed shallow Raiders.
Speaker 1
Woo.
Steve:
Ghost Walleye and black. Ice, buddy. I'll tell.
Jay:
Ghost walleye is cool.
Steve:
You what? Yeah, I'm just telling.
Jay:
Little faint skate all pattern on there. Nice.
Steve:
Yes, Sir. They look pretty I like.
Jay:
It I like the way you talk, Jay.
Jay:
Joe Joe gave him all thumbs up, Danny. Me some of. The bash oh.
Steve:
He didn't give you, like, a a emoji with a guy wearing.
Jay:
It was. He only speaks in emojis. You know that stuff? Yeah, it's just I can. I can figure it out. I can decipher it. It's a series of kind of bizarre emojis that, you know, sometimes to some people they seem out of place. But to me it.
Jay:
Makes perfect sense. Well, he'll be at the bash. Into the back.
Jay:
Yeah, Joe Bucher will be there. You, buddy. Well, Joe, he's gonna be great.
Steve:
What'd you say Timbuktu? Oh my goodness. Anyway, if you haven't seen it. The big old rubber video. It's on the ad.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steve:
It's on the musky shop. Your buddy Steve Japan. I even tell you it's yet put a couple fish that we haven't used from the Muskie shop on the app with some little stuff. Is there something you see something different through a couple little quick little edit details on there just for some extra summer content. So you got that and then we've got like I said. We're we're rocking and rolling on these big videos. I'm excited about it. I know we've got glide baits and we've got like a spinner bait thing working on. And if there's anything you.
Steve:
Want to see I I. Let me run this by you, Jay and everybody else.
Jay:
Sure.
Steve:
This would be as boring as watching paint dry. It's it's far less exciting than the cock fight.
Jay:
MHM.
Steve:
Something on boat control, like on the water. I know that sounds crazy, but my God, I I get people asking. I don't know how he pulled that off. I've had a couple pepsis here, but maybe this summer we could talk boat control on the water. You know, I was thinking today and we were able to score it got got a nice musky in the boat. One of those things where goodness gracious, man, I think catching a muskie starts with good boat control. You know, it's like first and foremost where? Well, if we we don't have our our drift down or we don't have our paths down. What are we doing? But anyway something to think about. But there's anything you guys want to learn more about over this summer into the early fall about like deeper subjects. I got some really nice messages from people this week. Thank you so much about the video. But if there's anything like, hey, dude, you know, we've been listening to the podcast and we like to see a video on this, you know, cause the podcast is first and foremost above all the video, you know, Scuds, all the 12 year olds that watch YouTube. But if there's anything you want to see, just shoot as a messy judge, I'd love to work on it and and just like the podcast, maybe I got the right idea. Maybe I don't. But we're we're doing it to it. Jay going to cut to it. We're going to get to the the the musky baits that matter, son. The meat grinder? The slop donkey? I can't remember the name of my own baits in the meat grinder. So.
Jay:
Jay:
Tailgater.
Steve:
We're kind of gab with Don and Chuck from Figure 8. Believe it or not, it's a conversation about Bucktails and spinner Bates. It's actually interesting. At least it was to me because I drank through the entire thing, Jay.
Jay:
Bring it on.
Steve:
Alright, my dudes, I have Don the owner of Figure 8 lower company and Chuck. How you guys doing?
Speaker 6
Good. How you doing?
Steve:
Steven, I am. I'm wet and cold and trying to drink a Pepsi here, trying to get warmed up. It was a heck of a day here about tell you what your Segway it was. It was perfect. Don said hey.
Speaker 5
Doing great.
Steve:
We need to talk on the podcast and of course, smack the Nice when on the on the tailgater today. So your timing couldn't be better, buddy. So we're we're here in live, but what's going on at Figure 8 right now, guys, what's, what's kind of the, what's kind of the new? What's the skinny? What's going on at the Figure 8 lower company?
Speaker 5
Well, guys, actually we got a. Brand new series coming out the. This year, and I'm gonna steal a little bit of Chuck's Thunder, and it's what we call our battle series. Mm-hmm. And and the battle series is nothing more than taking some of our existing lineup and adding a single #9 fluted blade to it. And.
Jay:
MHM.
Steve:
Yeah.
Speaker 5
It's been doing outstanding, Chuck. I'm gonna let you take the ball.
Speaker 6
Battle series. That's it kind of has been several years actually in the coming for me and doing some research, shall we say, and just take a look at how single blades have been producing compared to tandem blades, whether it's the same. Played different size, different different design blades. Whatever you guys are going with now and everything and the single blade has day in and day out, I'll actually outperform.
Speaker
Hmm.
Speaker 6
Turned the double blade. Am I going to say that the double blades are going to a thing in the past that guys should not be throwing them? Absolutely not. I mean, they're they're they are going to have their days and everything, but my single blades have done far and away better than double blades. But in in the number 9.
Steve:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 6
Fluted I mean Don had the with the Figure 8 and everything here we had the the fluted blade has been kind of the the figure eight thing and it's a fantastic blade and we just bumped up the size to #9. It gives a little bit little bit different thumb. Vibration little bit bigger profile so you can put a the bigger blade on a single on a single skirt that we use and you still have the bigger profile without. Without losing a whole bunch of weight to it and everything so.
Steve:
I think what what's interesting in, in, in a lot of people have not delved into it too terribly much. They go more is better when it comes to. Blades. Whereas a single blade where it's not offset by the you know the surface area of the of a counter blade is actually a more defined thump and most people simply don't realize that. I think is what you're getting where you know everybody's looking for what's next, what's next. And I think what's hilarious, at least for my purview, is that that what has always worked. Has now been overlooked. You know, it's kind of overshadowed where everybody's throwing 10s now, everybody's throwing 8 nines, everybody throwing all these blades and. The new school, the new batch of Muskies, especially on high pressure areas. They didn't spend all the they didn't spend 20 years seeing single blades where you know what? What was the industry standards now, kind of a sleeper again, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 6
Absolutely, 100%. That's why I've done a seminar for the between the Lakes Chapter Muskies, Inc up here and they asked. They said what? What do you want to title your your seminar. And they said back to going back to old school. And basically that's what it is. I mean, and you, you hit a good, good thing right on the head with as far as you come and going. I mean these guys are they're they're double bladed minded. I mean there's companies out there that that they pushed they pushed and they you know what they did a fantastic job of marketing.
Jay:
Yeah, it it.
Speaker 6
And it catches fish like crazy. I won't. Don't get me wrong, but.
Steve:
Right.
Speaker 6
The guys that I talked to at the seminar, they said they actually have seen their numbers in of. Producing on the double blades starting to dwindle a little bit and some of them kind of start thinking when I was doing my seminar. And they're like, ah, yeah. And yeah, we had some nice residual sales after the after the seminar because of that.
Jay:
It.
Steve:
If you look at it so it's it's I'm always pontificating muskies as you know Don and then just. Being a moron all around. Is humans live slightly longer than Muskie, so the trends are different and the way we perceive a trend right? So 10 to 15 years is an entire life cycle for most fish. You're going ohh something that looks like my old eagle tail before that. You see what I'm saying? Like old school is kind of gold right now where you're going. They're not seeing those. Something. I'll. I'll tell you that I just perceived looking at this and obviously I love the Figure 8.
Speaker 6
Seattle.
Steve:
So single blades to me. Are less surface area, therefore less lift in conjunction with the rubber core skirt, we can now run deeper, faster and have a different thumb than pretty much anybody else on the water, wouldn't you say?
Jay:
I totally agree.
Speaker 5
With that I I really do and you know, even what we where you actually even got a couple on the Ark, Christ. And that that is weighted that you can't get it down a little deeper.
Steve:
MHM.
Speaker 5
And it it still has. A good lift to it, and it has a nice thump to it and and the action is outstanding. You're you're gonna really enjoy it. It's. And it's not a hard. Lord. Bro, it's it's it. It's kind of going back to basics for lack of better words and and let's face it, Mets came out with the single bladed, even their muskie killers and everything else, and they caught fish. Now we've all been part of a muskie clubs and everything else and gay.
Steve:
Right.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 5
And then day out, if you look at the records, because everybody's supposed to record, you know what, they caught their fish on and that. You know better than 7580% of them have been caught on some type of spin or pay and. What we're doing is kind of coming in with a larger blade that is gonna. Taken by storm it it truly is. And I think we got the bases.
Steve:
Covered. Yeah. Well, yeah, it it's something I again, just. We're just, we're almost talking trends and it's it. It. I said it last week and I was just just **** talk. Then. But about Bucktails, because the the propensity or the the the angle that everybody's going for is like making a bait that you've done nothing other than like throwing a bait out and turning the handle in an even fashion. Everyone's trying to make baits that trigger fish that shouldn't be triggered through augmenting different blade combos and all this different stuff, right? Where? If we have to really reinvent double blades that much, shouldn't we do something else? You know what I'm saying? Like it, it really get it kind of like. Are we really gonna tweak our double blade game until the end of time, or are we gonna run a combinations and now we need something that, like, kind of stands out completely, you know, does that make any sense? Because just like that angler efficiency is so much higher now. You know, we have way better equipment. We have way better stuff that it boils down to. Why are why are we sitting here trying to make two blades work when one blade or a different design blade, a different vibrational profile is going to be the tick? And the other thing I point out just to do is on that same tip you add in, you know the big grub off the back, which is also kind of moving water. What what's the thought there is like the grub a compliment as far as a vibrational profile? Is it a visual profile, vibrational profile or you know what's the offset against the double blade thing there?
Speaker 6
Yep, Yep. I think it's. I think you're good. It's both. I think it's a I think it's a vibration plus. It's a visual aspect of it.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jay:
Sorry.
Steve:
I Don I I went muskie fishing one. How does this idiot know what he's talking about? Looking freaking ******. So goodness now. I mean, that's that's just the thought. Because I'm sitting here going.
Jay:
Eddie.
Steve:
I'm looking here at the wall of shame and my my the bait cave as we call it here on the podcast and. You know tons and tons of baits and hanging up and I'm going. Well, there's a bunch of eagle tails, you know. And they're buried behind piles of double s, you know. Double, Double, double, double.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steve:
Double something that I'm always preaching is.
Speaker
Yep.
Steve:
We've got to always be fishing below the level of light penetration, right? Muskies are what shallow? What? Or low light predators. They don't like the sun. They're like gizmo from gremlins. Bright light, bright light, bright light. Right. So we don't want to be in the bright.
Speaker 5
Yes.
Steve:
Right. But yet we refuse to put down the two bladed Bucktails that provide even more lift, so it's harder to get below the level of light penetration. And I think one thing that's lost on people because Don, you're not a dumb guy. You're what electrical engineer, correct?
Speaker 5
I don't tell anybody.
Steve:
Yeah, I don't know what I just did to like 10,000 people anyway. Just Don makes my Bucktails and runs a small prostitution gang, you know that's far. That's far less shameful at the boat ramp, right anyway.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steve:
But something that I just find like I'm beating my head. Against the wall. Is the the explanation of surface area right and how the the blades, the surface area of the blades affect running depth? I mean you've been building Bucktails and and and spinner baits for eons like how do you see that when you're making different models of like let's say the same frame size but the running depth on nines? There's 10s and things of that nature, like how do you accommodate for that or how do you think about that in a design perspective?
Speaker 5
Well, actually what happens is is that you kind of hit it on on it earlier is the amount of lift that you're getting. One of the keys that I'm seeing right now is that a lot. Of the reels. Are faster than what you really need. Yeah, and and and and. And. I mean that sincerely, I mean. And whether and and I'm not gonna throw anybody under the bus, but you know somebody your ratios that are out there.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steve:
Hey man.
Jay:
Beep beep back. The stop sign is out and the beeps are happening.
Speaker 5
But but but as you kind of had mentioned though, you're trying to get it to a level.
Speaker
Sorry.
Speaker 5
Alright. And if we got reels that are going.
Steve:
Yeah.
Speaker 5
Too damn fast. I mean, I mean, we might as well be.
Jay:
MHM.
Speaker 5
Starting to create buzzbaits.
Steve:
Yeah, but and Buzz Bates are for losers. As we all know. More on that later, folks.
Speaker 5
But but but that the the whole goal is is to try getting it into a zone, OK, and with summer coming in, OK, there's gonna be thermal planes and everything else that we're going to be playing with.
Steve:
Right.
Speaker 5
And and the objective is is that you can't be moving it and skimming it across the top of the water. It you gotta. Keep it down lower and then you don't need an ultra ultra fast reel.
Steve:
Well, work that you're gonna.
Speaker 5
To be things.
Steve:
Here's The thing is, it is because I sort of straddle the the the old school and the new school always have probably not always will, but right. So when I started guiding the coolest reel I could buy. Was in Abu Garcia. Right, see three and I had the I had the the, the 6501 left, the actual I mean started the podcast. I was still throwing.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steve:
And I caught tons of fish on that thing. Then the Super reels came out. And guess what I did? I bought the fastest real humanly I could right. It was like, what is this rocket ship real. And I went. I'm not catching Muskies anymore. And I went I need to slow down because yeah, it's not. It's funny because it's removed from like Figure 8 baits and just the general concept some I'm preaching on the podcast all the time. Yes, a muskie can shoot up from 30 feet at depth and smash your bucktail right that you're burning on the surface, however. The vibration would have to reach him or a visual profile, so there's no sensory input between you and 30 feet, right? Proximity, proximity, proximity, proximity. How do we have a bait that's running?
Jay:
Not at all.
Steve:
Not I hate the word strike zone, but in a zone that is actually. Stimulating the latter line while providing a visual profile and not screeching across the surface, and I think you nailed it because you go you pair like a Figure 8 bait. Like again I'm I make a living with the Steve fricking meat grinder that's been my bread and butter for eons. That with a 5 three to one reel and you're just like turn the handle fish on end, you know. So I'll I'll allow you to elaborate even further, but I I I'm totally there where where we go, you cannot have a 7/1 to 1/8 gear thing with double plates. I mean, they're all buzz baits at that point.
Speaker 5
And and that's what happens on it and and and you had alluded to the meat grinder and the meat grinder is actually a perfect example of a of bait. That. You should just sit there and reel. Stop, reel, stop. Let the fall action of it do its work. I mean, and that's what's going to stimulate. And it's gonna keep it into a strike zone. The the meat grinder and and even now that new tailgater that we came out with this year is is a perfect example.
Steve:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5
Of something that you want, I mean, to sit there and and you don't have to beat yourself. But reeling it in it, it just turned the handle and let let let it do itself and and I think that's kind of one of the objectives that we came out with was trying to sit there and you know, play with the average Joe for lack of better words. You know you know that.
Steve:
Now turn the handle, yeah.
Speaker
Right.
Speaker 5
Somebody that still wants to catch that fish and you know, and as long as the blade is turning or if it's doing its job. And whether we're yoyoing a meat grinder in or a tailgater in, it's gonna do its job. And and it's, you know, the whole idea of, like, the tailgater came from years ago, my grandmother, my, my grandfather was a great fisherman, but he'd be sitting there and just telling her to. Bob up and down with this sit there, buzz bait, you know, for lack of better words. And just sit there and.
Speaker
MHM.
Steve:
Jig it something happen? Something won't happen.
Speaker 5
You know? Yeah. And and and and and they and they caught fish, you know. And you know why are we reinventing the wheel, you know and and kind of.
Speaker
Yes.
Speaker 5
As you had alluded to earlier. Yeah, we can sit there and go with offset blades, you know, with different size and have different vibration. And. And I do think they work but. But you know, let's get back to basics, you know.
Steve:
And the other basic is this. This is the only company we can 100% I can stand behind that doesn't use Korean child labor. Wouldn't you say that? Thanks. Other everybody else is suspect. I don't. I can't say it from my own personal experience. Right. You know, you go. I don't know about everybody else, but I I say that jokingly. Don you, you guys, you pretty much custom built everything right or or do you have a sweatshop?
Speaker 5
Yes, we.
Steve:
Like like some other like like like some other bait manufacturers. Yeah, we'll go to the the attack ad portion of the interview. Some musky, bucktail companies use child labor.
Speaker 6
This. Yeah. This his basement. His basement? Yeah.
Speaker 5
No. What we're we're we're not. That big. Factory by any means and. And and it's people like Chuck are. Or even yourself, Steve. You know where all of a sudden you guys got an idea? You know, it's like, hey, can you do this and and then I'll, I'll sit there and take a look at it and say, yeah, you know, this is this is possible. I mean, you got this one right now that's kind of gotten stumped at crucifix.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 5
Yeah, we're laughing.
Steve:
That musket crucifier folks.
Speaker 5
I've got that I've got. That thing hanging in my basement on a pegboard and I'm like, OK, how in the?
Jay:
Dude.
Steve:
Heck, can I do this? It will work. It will just. Ohh God. So let me tell the story in that. So it's like.
Jay:
It.
Steve:
Called dawn and said, hey this hell this relationship. I use your baits all the time. Make me some right. You know I could. I got this bait. I'm sick of making them make them, OK, right. Super chill. So we do. We do the meat grinder, right. And then we get into it. And he's like, what other ideas do you have? And I send you the crucifier or whatever the heck. This thing has.
Speaker 5
Yeah.
Steve:
Which it works. That's the scary thing you're like. But what do we do with it? It's like Jeff Goldblum and Jurassic Park. They never thought about. They only thought about. Could they not? Should they? And it's so it's it's so cool because you just come up with stuff, Chuck, I think you one of your contributions to figure you the bomb. Correct.
Speaker 6
Correct. Yeah. The the bomb and the bomb is. I've been making that thing kind of like yourself. I mean, it's for probably. Let's see. God no more 56. So 35 plus years I've been made was making the design.
Speaker
Talk about that.
Speaker 6
Modifying spinner baits and.
Speaker
MHM.
Speaker 6
I finally got sick of modifiers asked not if he was interested and he said Sir.
Steve:
Yeah.
Speaker 6
And what it is, it's.
Speaker 5
Yeah, let's go up. Don't.
Steve:
Call up Don. He'll make them dumb. Yeah. Sick of making these shifts.
Speaker 1
We'll make them.
Speaker 6
But it's the only it's the only spinner bait which floored me because of the 35 plus years I've been watching for a company to finally do it. No one ever did. Is a double blade, but it runs off of two swivels. Well above each other. And as the blades spin together cause on the top.
Jay:
MHM.
Speaker 6
Blade of a spinner bait. It's like kind of rotating and everything back there. Now you have two of them and it's hitting. You've got the noise of the blades, the blades hitting each other. You got the thump, the vibration, they actually will stop, pause and reverse spin.
Jay:
MHM.
Speaker 6
They kick back and forth and kind of almost like a injured bait fish type swim to him. And they've just done. They've done really, really well. They've done like really, really. Well, and I. Of all the ones that I've made over the years, 35 plus years, I've never ever fished with anyone. And use that bait. I only used that when I was fishing alone. So.
Steve:
Just come home.
Speaker 5
Not anymore. Not anymore. Not anymore.
Steve:
Less and less, and I fish for about. But you don't have to hide it. I fish for about 4000 people with heat shrink on don's blades with everything cut off of them and nobody ripped it off. Like really like. Come on, dude. The monkey could make a freaking meat grinder, you know? But but here we sit.
Jay:
But.
Steve:
But it you know it's it's I think a lot of the reason to talk about the bomb is, you know, conditions situational stuff where you're just doing something so different. I mean, that's what I love about figuring when what everybody's working on it just like, OK, here's situational baits. Here's baits that just do something different even when it's like, I think a lot of. New anglers or anglers that maybe come from the bass or Pike where they see a spinner bait and they go it's a spinner bait and you go. It's truly like the Swiss Army knife of muskie fishing. In my opinion, you know, like, yeah, drop shotting it. We're joking about we have no better name than the crucifier of this. Just like, could it be a spinner bait? That's a jig. Who knows? You know, could you possibly just snag bodies of the? Dead off the bottom with it. We'll find out at some point if just Don, Don is Don doesn't say no, he. It says. We might make that work, you know.
Speaker 6
It usually does not.
Steve:
Yeah, make it work. It's on.
Speaker 5
And and The thing is that between, well, Chuck and yourself, Steve, you guys throw ideas at me and them and and I can sit there. And stare at it long enough. And it's like, yeah, we can do.
Jay:
This but never ask should we do this?
Speaker 5
I mean, sometimes you guys are throwing some wild things at me, but.
Steve:
Hi.
Jay:
That 40 oz spinner bait troll.
Speaker 5
Well, and that's well, that's a good example. I'm like, where how can I get this weight?
Steve:
Just. Fricking. It's a downrigger with a blade, but.
Speaker 6
By that.
Steve:
What? What do you do now? I mean, it's it's just, I think a lot of the stuff you guys are cranking out. And then I, you know, laughing, I try to throw my hat in the ring cause Dons Dons goofy enough to make my my dreams come true. But. You know it's I think a lot of what you produce is like, it's not glitz or glamour, it's just muskie driven based on experience, wouldn't you say for both of you?
Speaker 5
Absolutely. Ohh, definitely definitely. I mean now what you you are just out in the Netherlands there earlier this year and you were playing with the tailgater out there and look at the northern not you guys caught out there. I mean it it's it's just amazing and you know and.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steve:
Yeah. Oh yeah, we've got. The video is forthcoming, yeah.
Speaker 5
You know and and it's kind of and and it's and that's where the fun part comes in, is that you're you're seeing the this success, you know based on. Well, let's face it, it's all. All your guys. Designs and that you know, you guys bought it out and saying, OK, let's try this alright. Why not? And it works.
Steve:
It's it's The funny thing. I think with blades I mean spinner baits in in my mind have always been far more nuanced than Bucktails. Right. Because I mean Bucktails are about useless if you stop. Right. Yeah, you can stop a bucktail and guess what's gonna happen? Nothing good. You know, you can stop a spinner BAE and you go. Oh, I mean, so there's such a simple thing that could be modified or just tweak forever. Like dawn. I mean, it makes total sense with the bomber. Yeah, well, if I'm seeing pressured. Fish are negative to neutral fish that have seen a. All. Yeah, these counter blades clacking and whacking and doing this weird stuff that's going to be an insanely different vibrational profile. Or, you know, you look at the tailgater, where I'm going. Well, I need something for heel boost to rip like a bulldog in about 3 feet of water, you know? I mean, what do you do? How do you make it? How do you make it work? But. You know, as far as as far as?
Jay:
Of of of.
Steve:
The main stuff, obviously we're, you know, we're talking about the the single blade. What are some other standouts? What are the other things you're like, OK. A freaking trained monkey. If you could treat like train a monkey to drive a tiller. What's the best Figure 8 bait that he get his hands on? What's going to be like the no brainer Figure 8 muskie in the neck kind of bait? You got to train the monkey to drive a tiller first, so you got time. Not everybody jump at once.
Speaker 5
You. You. Honestly, I think that the whole idea of like the like the boss, is probably one of the best, best and easy.
Jay:
MHM.
Speaker 5
Bates to sit there and throw that. Anybody can throw it and still catch fish. Yeah. And and that. And that would include like the tailgater or the meat grinder. I mean, I mean, and those would be, and they'd all fall right into it and that anybody's the bomb.
Steve:
Oh. Same, yeah.
Speaker 5
- Mean. Those those would probably be the easiest ones that that I personally would recommend for somebody getting right into it and wanting to catch a fish and.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steve:
Yeah, I mean and it and it flat out, I mean the the tail, excuse me, the meat grinder is a boss with -1 blade and a bigger blade is all it's the same. It's the same blade. It's just like the different.
Speaker 5
Crap. Crap. It's no, and all we're doing is with a a #9 Willow on that one there. And and it's very simple and and it's a very simple bag. But whether it's falling, like you said, I mean, you can sit there and stop reeling that in.
Steve:
And it's still working.
Speaker 5
And it's still gonna, and it's still working. And and that's what I love about that. Babe, I I really do. I mean, it's still working and it's it. It's gonna trigger fish.
Steve:
Have you guys either if you had cause I something I I try try to. Try to convey when I'm guiding about spinner Bates and you know, especially the boss, I actually still throw like the mini boss, just as is, you know. So and and I actually still throw some of the just the straight up boss you know in in heavy cover but something I'm doing I'm trying to get guys to do is like OK if we if we exceed. Four turns in the Figure 8. Let's just freeze. Pull that thing. Let's dead stick. Have you guys done that with any of these bats or just yoyo? Or. Screw you dropping her down.
Speaker
Yep.
Steve:
It it's such.
Speaker
And.
Speaker 5
And and for like you, Steve like that you're you're guiding and you don't know what the what the people are. I mean if they.
Steve:
Buddy, I say I I never know what's walking down the dock. It could be you. You have no clue? Yeah.
Speaker 5
You got that right and. And and to me, that'd be the easy. I mean, that's what I'd throw out there, first of all. If you want to catch fish. And you don't know what, how, how experienced they are. I I put them on.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 5
That date right? Away I I really was.
Steve:
That I I've got piles of them just but I I would say, you know, just from a guiding standpoint. Let me back it up. Not the. Let's not put the caveat of guiding cause that sounds pretty highfalutin, right? From a patterning standpoint? A spinner bait, right? And I would say for any podcast, listen where you got a Figure 8 bait or whether you got whatever you know. But maybe you made your own out of baling twine. A A freaking spinner bait is going to allow so much versatility in your pattern, cause I feel like my speed control is far, far easier to control with a spinner, but you know, I'm saying as far as the lift.
Speaker 5
Ohh yes.
Steve:
Where? You know, I I've really got that because I mean just, I mean I it's funny because like the next video, I think one of the next couple of videos we're doing for Muskie shop is is basically just a breakdown on spinner bait tactics where you go. It doesn't sound sexy, but by God, there's a **** ton of **** you can do. You know, because.
Speaker 5
There's there's. So there's so much more that you can do with it and you can drop it all the way down and lift it up, drop it all the way down, and lift it up.
Steve:
I've come, yeah.
Speaker 5
You know and.
Steve:
I can't think of any bucktail fish. I've cut jig. You know, there's not a lot of jig, your double tins and see if that works out or where. And I think it's one of those things where we're talking about old as gold or, you know, old baits or you know that kind of what was once worth.
Speaker
No.
Speaker 6
Exactly.
Steve:
I think spinner Bates is one of those things. Like, yeah, it's it's been around for eons, but there's a reason it's it's it's been around because the guys that know know and like you're saying from a guiding perspective. I guess. Yeah. I mean the 1st 10 cast on my boat, regardless of what they're eating is typically a spinner, right? Right. We could be we, we could be in a pounder bite, huh?
Speaker 5
You want to move fish?
Steve:
Oh, heck ma'am. Well, my problem is this. We could be on like a saw with like Bulldog Pounder bite. But I'm gonna let let's see him throw this spinner bait 1st and see what happens. You know? And is it going to end up in the trees? You know we can we can deal with that. But yeah the versatility is there for sure.
Speaker 5
You're trying to move fish.
Steve:
One thing again, I'm not trying to freaking blow V8 for Figure 8 per se, but. Your price point, that's one thing. If you guys haven't checked out Figure 8. Very affordable. Which is cool. I mean, where with the with the custom stuff or with with some of this new big single blade stuff. I mean, you guys are coming in pretty Dang competitive, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 5
We're trying to we we really are and and both you know with, with, with the addition of Chuck on board right now he he kind of gives me an idea where we need to be and and he's out doing like like I said he had mentioned before going in. Talking to some of the the different clubs out there, he has a great feel as far as where our price. Point needs to be. We we we don't have a great big factory. I mean, I don't have a factory in Vietnam right now and.
Steve:
Yet but he we are we are researching child labour, he says, yeah, extensively extensive R&D into where the cheapest child labor is. Sorry.
Speaker 5
Zero. So so we're. But but but we are very open to any kind of ideas and and that's what's the exciting part about it. And you know that whether it's yourself, Steve or Chuck, all of a sudden you guys got some great ideas. I mean, I've got a, a couple other people that you know that we sponsored and. Everything else and they're and they're coming in with some great ideas as far as what they want to see, whether it's cold. Others, whether it's what they'd like to see as far as more weight and and and because we're a small company, we're able to kind of accommodate. Is this what you had in mind? Is this what you're thinking about? And and and that's actually the fun part. It it really is. I mean, I mean, who would have thought, OK, what was it a year ago we introduced?
Speaker
MHM.
Steve:
Yeah.
Speaker 5
You know the meat grinder and and honestly, that thing took off.
Steve:
Yeah.
Speaker 5
Better than anyone could have expected. I honestly it it really did it. It was probably it won't by far for Figure 8. Lure Company was the number one sign.
Steve:
Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 5
Lord, that we had last year. And you know and. It was just simple going back and forth trying to figure out what's gonna work and and that's that's the fun.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
Part of the whole game.
Steve:
I I really think you're nailing it because I, you know, kind of looted, like it's on the water experience, like Chuck with the bomb. Or like, I mean, dude, the freaking meat grinding of the tailgater ****. I've been fishing for years, where I just buy your stuff. Before I did any, like, OK, well, here I got to do this **** again myself, you know? And and. Yes. You make it work and here this is what catches fit, you know, and I think that's what's exciting about instead of like.
Speaker 6
You up?
Steve:
You know, it's not the here. Here's the new glitz and glamour bait we came up with and we don't know if it catches fish, but it looks sexy, you know? No, this is this has been catching fish for a hot minute. Let me ask you this. And just just sheer curiosity. I think for a lot of guys.
Jay:
Yes.
Steve:
They think. Bucktails and they think spinner baits and they think flashbook or excuse me, they think Bucktails and they think Flash Boo but they think they're completely OK with spinner baits having. Plastic skirts, but you know Bucktail, God forbid it has a plastic skirt. What's your take on that and kind of how does that play other than other than, you know, a little extra weight? What's your thoughts?
Speaker 5
Chuck, this one here is totally up your alley.
Speaker 6
There biggest thing is the action, the flash or the flash of Boo compared to like the. The the silicone skirting that we that we use you compare that to the marabou you compare that to bucktail every single one of them has a different action to it. Now you can go into and you take a look at, OK, how is it? How are these? The materials, the that skirting material, how is that affecting the depth that they're running at?
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6
With the the the solo. Cone, can you run it high? Yep. But it. But you can get it down into. We'll call the strike zone a lot easier. So, I mean, it's you. Get more flair. The big flare and everything on a with a double blade in front of flash of boom. As opposed to silicone and you know. Is Steve you? You hit it before. The Muskie live what 12/15/18 years?
Steve:
Yeah.
Speaker 6
How long has the double bladed flashabou been popular? 20 it's been. It's been about 20 years. OK, so most most of these guys are throwing double bladed flash of booze. So I mean, these fish are seeing it day in and day out and it.
Steve:
20 yeah. Seen it? Yeah. Especially pressure areas, yeah.
Speaker 6
Was like, OK well. Yep, and. And you get up into the the Wisconsin. Areas of Canada, Minnesota. I mean, where these fish have seen this stuff.
Steve:
Ohh, they could pick up. They can pick him out by brand up there most of the time. Well, they're guess. Yeah. There's another Booker talk. I'll be damned.
Speaker 6
Oh. No. No, you know, you come in with something a little bit different. And gives a little bit different action. Now you put a single blade in front of it. Now you're now you're getting completely different than what what these fish are. Have been accustomed to seeing. Yeah, and I. And I think that's why 20 years ago, when the the company came out with that double bladed flashable it hammered fish because it because it was different. Yeah.
Steve:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, especially like you're, you know, you could theoretically. I mean, on some of these metro waters in in Minnesota or this stuff. I mean, you're just not going to have the same action where you're, you know, most of the habitat range, believe it or not, is not highly pressure. But my goodness, Wisconsin, I mean, you think about 3 legs, Chang or Eagle chain, the amount of Bucktails that they're seeing. And that's it. They're all presented the same way. Here. They come burning over the top. It all looks the same. It's just like fool me once. OK, but after that that these fish are checking out. And I like what you said that because the running depth. I mean, you know, the rubber core doesn't. I mean, flash would be doesn't have a natural buoyancy like maribou by any stretch of the imagination. But like you said, the puffing of the skirt at one time, that was important to surge it a little bit, and it's going to do it.
Jay:
Right, the.
Steve:
What I've seen more so than anything, the trend pointing towards smaller profile or a thinner profile with a bigger vibration that's different.
Speaker 6
Correct. So more a little more of a subtle presentation and one thing too. I don't know if you're seeing what you're seeing in waters down there, but like our inland waters here are clearing up. Green Bay is clearing up everywhere.
Speaker 5
You know such.
Speaker 6
Inland. And I think, and I personally think that the different presentation is a more subtle presentation, the we'll call it, the less aggressive presentation. Is going to bode well for guys and I think if they they try it and they really they they can honest look at it, I think they're going to definitely notice the difference because I certainly didn't and it wasn't a one day comparison, it wasn't a one week one trip, one year it was multiple multiple years that. This had held true all and it's just say, OK, there's more to it than.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6
And just a one year wonder type thing. So but it's the IT the singles that the single blades and I think honestly going with a different.
Steve:
Well.
Speaker 6
Style of skirting like the like, the silicone and the and the colors that we have are just like just killer.
Steve:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, they're spot on. You know, like you're saying, you know, we we can all agree that it takes a certain distance from a musky to trigger them to even look right. And now we need a certain speed. And it's something I'm hammering on the podcast all the time. We we have control of two things in in fishing depth and speed. Right. That's it. So if you have a single blade like on the on the new stuff that's coming out here, you have a single blade and we have our rubber course skirt and it's, you know, perfectly weight. We can now achieve speed and depth easier than trying to slow roll cause I think a lot of guys with the double blade where they're failing. Is. You know, they got the double blades. There's too much lift. They just can't get below that level of light penetration where it's even perceivable. You know, where where? Hey, you know the difference of foot makes in muskie fishing is shocking. And I think that until until somebody sees that from themselves like you, you know, if you were going out in highly pressure.
Speaker
Right.
Steve:
First, falling up by their boats and going well, they went through here and and Don was saying with the the high speed. Well, yeah, you threw at them, but you didn't throw anywhere near them. It's just the totally different dynamic there for sure. Well, Don, are you? I I think you're showing up. Are you're going to be present at the Muskie shop bash this year.
Speaker
Yes.
Speaker 1
No.
Speaker 5
Yes, we are and I look forward to it.
Steve:
He's gonna be there.
Speaker
And we're.
Speaker 5
Gonna go out and have a beer this year, aren't we?
Steve:
Never. I am a I'm a tea. Totaler freaking. I'll call my you know.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 5
Actually, Chuck is gonna be up there too. And so with the new format for the bashes here, we are going to be promoting actually the single. Single blazes here, and that's. We're, you know, we wanna bring that out to the public, I mean, and the bash has always been a great turn out and and it is fun. It it really is and and that's one of the things that we're gonna really kind of promote is I mean nature we're going to still have the meat grinder.
Steve:
Oh yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 5
And the tailgater and everything else there. But one of the things that we're gonna bring out this year as it is relatively new for us is that single blade #9. And I think you're going to really like it, Steve.
Steve:
Absolutely. I'm looking forward to throwing it and especially checking and canning it. Let me ask you this, do you do you? I believe you do custom orders as well. Am I correct on that? Like if if somebody called you up want something just ridiculous or they're dreaming or something.
Speaker
- Yes.
Speaker 5
Ohh we we you know what and and that's kind of the fun thing is that and and Chuck is really kind of turned me on to that before we were you know your typical fire tiger walleye whatever he's like no let let's.
Steve:
MMM.
Speaker 5
Let's take a look. At, you know adding some different colors adding this blade. Over hearing that and it's been fun and and our whole lineup has completely.
Jay:
MMM.
Speaker 5
Change to that point and and we're still using our basic lineup. But you know, Chuck is saying no. Let let let's call this one here the Joker or what have. You or the. Green perch or what have. You and and it's and when I look at it. He's he's spot on and and he has. I mean, there's people that work with their left side of their brain and I have to say that Chuck is. I mean, he's got to be an. Artist, in his own way that he.
Speaker
MHM.
Speaker 5
He he sees it. You know and, but to get back to your original question regarding custom, you know, if somebody wanted something that you know was totally off the wall. Honestly, everything is made to order. I I I'm not sitting on inventory, you know, typical lead time is, you know three days and.
Jay:
Hmm.
Steve:
Speaker 5
You know what? We're gonna put something. Together for you.
Steve:
Yeah. If somebody, it's like, hey, I need a freaking Colorado #12 on a spinner. Yeah, you know that. I mean, I think, like, we were we're talking about so many times. You're dialed in on certain bites and you and you figure something out and. You go, huh? You know, so. If you're dreaming it, Don can make it folks for.
Speaker 5
Well, we, we. We got a guy out in Colorado and Colorado's really turning into a, excuse me, Utah and yeah, and they're all tigers. And and there's a gentleman by name of Howard Liskey.
Steve:
All tigers. Yeah, dude.
Speaker 5
That he's, like, done. I need this. I need this. I need this and and Howard is throwing me more different ideas. And I'm like, OK, I kind of like that, you know? And it's gonna be part of our regular lineup, you know? And. And he's been doing really well with the Tigers out there. So it's it. It's it's been good.
Steve:
Absolutely. Ohh yeah, it's totally situational good. Very cool. Well guys. Check it out. You can check it out. Was it? What is the official website for Figure 8 right now?
Speaker 5
It is now fish figure-eight.com all one word.
Steve:
That's is that fish with an F.
Speaker 5
Yeah, it's with an L.
Steve:
OK, you checking your8.com, Don, Don will be at the back if you can check it out. He's got all the stuff at the the muskieshop.com there. If you're dreaming up something, that's what. That's how. How? I know these knucklehead.
Speaker
Hey.
Steve:
If you got a dream in your head, Don will probably say yes, and how much? So anyway, guys, thanks for coming on the show. I look forward to talking in here real sick.
Speaker 5
Sounds crazy?
Jay:
Left my apartment. It was absolutely bizarre night.
Steve:
Student dude, I'm not here to talk. About your Kings Day dance. Just no, yeah. Ohh ****, we're back on the air. Anyway, sorry folks, that was a great talk. Muskie fricking Bates from Figure 8. That's freaking amazing. Wow, Don and Chuck. What do you what do you say, Jay?
Jay:
You live? Yeah. OK. Hello.
Steve:
Knocking it out of the park, knocking it out of the park there, folks anyway.
Jay:
You got a solid lineup that's ever increasing I love. It good stuff.
Steve:
Right. They get it. I mean, it's just one of those you could tell. I don't a good buddy of mine, we we we text back and forth and gab and whatnot. And dude, he's so amicable to my stupid ideas of just crap. You come up with. You know, I'm just like, OK, well, if we tried this and it works, so he is definitely a musky. Guys muskie, guy, you know what I'm saying? That that's cool. It's. Like it's a it's a passion project for him, so if you do have an idea, if you get some freaking bait rattling in your head or you need XYZ call.
Speaker 6
Mm-hmm.
Steve:
Him. He's cool. Anyway, let's do some Q&A. Dave, I was listening to your podcast about the crayfish spawn. Is it possible that there could have been suckers up there feeding on the crayfish also as a main course? Long time listener, first time car. So he's referring to, I don't know if his last week it all blurs together.
Speaker 1
Hmm.
Steve:
But I had one of the one.
Jay:
Yes it does.
Jay:
Of the best.
Steve:
Musky days of my life and I went back and did some inspection and found a ton of crayfish in the area.
Speaker 5
MHM.
Steve:
David, in that scenario, I was so intrigued that night after, as he is my witness, I called Doctor Bob was like dude. Here's what happened. Here's how many fish are caught. Here's how big they were. What's your thought? Because I could not find a bait fish. And when the bite died, I scanned every inch of that freaking place. The only thing I found was crayfish, so that as far as that chapter in that moment in time, I could not find any bait fish present. I actually went back the next day and checked. I couldn't find anything that was happening as far as bait. Fish and then crayfish. It is what it is. Maybe that's a possibility. Yeah, who knows? I don't know at that point you're just going to compartmentalize and go well. I hope that happens again. That would be nice, Larry Spring fishing question, if you're getting falls on small Bucktails but no hookups, would you change baits or stay with the Bucktails? Yeah, that's up your alley.
Jay:
MMM. Yeah. It's up my alley. What do?
Steve:
You mean? I don't know.
Jay:
I don't either. No, of course you're going to. You gotta. You gotta make some adjustments to your baby.
Steve:
No, not that great. Goodnight, folks. Jay Bird, say goodnight. We don't know. I have never. I have such little experience. Muskie fishing that that question is above my pay grade and I quit.
Jay:
I think we've all been there. Hmm. This isn't working. It's still not working. It's still not working. They're not. Fighting today, OK, yeah.
Steve:
You say that, OK, I called you yesterday. I called Jay every day cause if not. He gets nervous.
Jay:
Sometimes I answer the phone I.
Steve:
Just say what? What? Stop calling. Now we, we ******** every day and.
Jay:
Sorry.
Steve:
I called you yesterday and when I say I had. More freaking follows than yeah. The. Boat. Look like the Muskie shop got a delivery from the Unabomber. It it, it was like Ted Kaczynski style. Every bait I owned was laying on the deck from the 500 Booker tails to I threw everything. Me and my clients through everything. I had. More followers than I'm comfortable saying on air.
Jay:
Right. And they were all responsible for continued follows, right. I mean, even as you're changing out types?
Steve:
It was just like. Right. It just was one of those days where you're just like.
Jay:
Oh.
Steve:
In my own head, you're going well. What would the guys on the podcast say? Like I'm trying to tap into like there's God Steven podcast Steve. God, Steve. Way more dry, by the way. Figuratively, figuratively and literally. But in my brain, I'm going, OK.
Speaker
Cool.
Steve:
They just followed single eight. Let's take it down a notch. Let's take it down a notch. Let's do this. Let's do that. OK. They're not eating that. Let's take it to a hell house. They're not doing that. Hell, puppy. All right, they'll do that. Tap dancer. I could not pick a bait that would get eaten. And it would be like, OK, everybody, throw this, this, this and this. This basically I'm passing down the boat. The last boat that gets followed. And at a certain point, like son of a gun, we're down to it. Finally. And it would. I don't believe it had anything to do with. But you know, I'm not. I'm. I'm shameless in some aspects, but we got a fish on the Titan Junior and it wasn't because I don't think it's because of Titan Junior. I think it's because he just went. Stop messing with me. You know what I'm saying? You just finally, like, just got one where, like? Well, I don't know what's working, but that did. And then after that this subsequently there was like no pattern with it. It was just all that one bit. And it happens. But in in, in in the general circumstance, if if we're getting a lot of followers on small Bucktails but no hookups. I'm gonna go from a small bucktail to something like the slammer, fatty minnow or a Joe Booker shallow Raider or the Titan Junior or a small glider, right? Those would be your options in the spring, but I guess my brain gravitated to the day of follow hell that I had the other day. But you know, there's days and you guys will have when you'll be on the water, like, oh I. Had 28 follows. And you just feel worse than getting none. You're like ohh. But there's some days they'll move on everything, but they won't eat anything and you just gotta keep going through the box. But for. And spring fishing, small Bucktails are not working. Small glide baits, small crank baits that would be the ticket I would say on to the next Jay.
Jay:
Probably the first thing I tried after that too, I agree.
Steve:
Yeah, right. Yeah, Mark, you know Mark's target and muskies in a mid depth range, Jay, it's 18 to 14 feet. Clearwater conditions finally landed. My first artificial lure caught muskie in that range using the cracking. Thank you.
Jay:
Yep. Good.
Steve:
What other lower should I try in that depth range as the cracking with the smallest ways Neil the only thing turning heads thinking about buying 2 to 3 deep buy more cracking? Sorry, I'm just. I went from Shane, not shameless, but the tide buy as many crackers as you can. Daddy needs a new Camaro. So Cracking's doing it, the only thing that's getting looks 18 to 14. Think about buying 2 to 3 deep cranks. Any recommendations 8 to 14 on the cast is what it sounded like.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steve:
I would look at if cracking getting looks and you caught a fish. Congratulations. He smacked him on the cracking. Jay, don't be shy of other rubber.
Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.
Steve:
You know, Jay mentioned, toothy tough, maybe like toothy, tough, a salty eel or maybe a bulldog. Or maybe that's just not jiving for you, but it's he asked specifically for crankbaits to 8 to 14, which puts us in a narrow band of. With the reef digger from Tom LeBeau.
Jay:
Yeah, Big Fork reef. Diggers, you know, straight death riders.
Steve:
He'll leave the boat on for you. Isn't that a slogan? I think this, folks, this is Tom LeBeau. I'll leave the boat on for you. Oh, it's Tom. Bow dead.
Jay:
Long time. No, that's. My bad. Yeah, different guy. They're both from Minnesota, though.
Steve:
They're fair enough. So they're beef digger. What? OK, here. This boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Winner, Winner, chicken dinner. It took me a second countdown.
Jay:
There you have it.
Steve:
Cooker depth Raider, ooh. A foot of second countdown. Now what I would do if you're fishing at Edge is 8 to 14. Fish it laterally with a countdown crank back. That's going to be the ticket. So count if you need to hit 8 feet, count it down to say you know four and then crank it, make bottom contact, rip it up. What other stuff? Kind of kind of work in the crank.
Jay:
With the suspending death raters deadly too, in that case, you rip rip stop and it just hangs there. Yeah, 1800s. Just go, kid.
Steve:
Our 333. The triple D. Oh geez, calm down. Gross me out, man. I didn't know. Just go. Just go, kids.
Speaker 6
Hmm.
Steve:
Did that. Yeah. Watch that if you're in the suit, guile and Jays working, those would be some options there. You know, it's a cracking you whack fish on the cracking. Don't be. Don't be shot checking out of the rubber baits during that or just throw more cracking because they were. Corey, are there any tanks or modification due with bonding?
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah.
Steve:
Especially the original bonding that increased the percentage of fish land. They're crushing them for us opening week and but we end up losing 4. All that came off after 10 to 20 seconds. Hooks. We're sharp. And teeth marks on the bait, indicating they're getting a lot rubber, lot of rubber and hooks. Thanks guys for the podcast. Meow, Meow, meow, meow. So my Bondi Bates. What I've done with them.
Speaker
Well.
Steve:
As I was using a hook that's no longer did they show up the BKS yet? Jay.
Jay:
I think they're coming.
Steve:
In tomorrow. OK, so for a lot of years I've been using a wide gap 7 on hook. There's no longer made on my bondies. Said a short Shank. That thing was like short, short, short, with a super wide gap on a bondy bait. You couldn't miss him. We lost those hooks. They stopped making them. Now Jay and Tom and the guests the Muskie shop and Jim believe they've got a special order of BKK.
Jay:
You got what you see. These things are awesome.
Steve:
Which those are European hook. My buddy Tim team turned me on to and they are. Let me put it this way. Be very judicious with your Smitty file on these things. Right. You don't go at a BKK hook like you're grinding down a a moose stead as they call right? Don't. Don't go at it. It's a very, very sharp hook. You just need to clean them up a bit. They're wicked good, super strong. So the best trick for Bonnie Bay is get a wide gap. 657, a bigger hook.
Speaker
Steve:
OK, first and foremost. Bury them into the body of the bait. So take one of the points and bury it in the body right front and back. The next thing is this. You better have a stiff rod and all I need to say to Cisco kid to Jay and he'll get, he'll get a. He'll almost get there, but we need a very stiff rod, so when I'm dedicated jigging for Musk. I'm using my 9 foot extra heavy muskie shop rod. I'm not using the 96. I'm not using freaking heavy. I'm using a nine foot extra heavy rod. Right. The shorter the rod, the better you could get away with an 8 foot extra heavy, but I want the heaviest rod that I have, the shortest rod that I have. And when I'm setting the hook it is. The hardest hook set that I can give them right? It's very similar to that of a sucker hook, sits straight up and just.
Jay:
Sure, just yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, it's a soft plastic bait. They are. They're grabbing the bait and you gotta move that bait. You gotta move.
Steve:
The hooks can you hear the menergy in that scream, Jay? Man energy.
Speaker 5
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
It's pretty exciting.
Steve:
Whoa, dude.
Jay:
Calm down, yeah.
Speaker
Hmm.
Jay:
You know.
Steve:
Yeah, sure. But anyway, give that fish the energy. Hit him as hard as you can, and I'm not afraid to. I think we we did the. On debate video last year, I've got some I've watched one of the clips I have. Bondi Fish what some of the few fish them not afraid to. Kind of double tap, almost like a sucker.
Jay:
OK, OK.
Steve:
Be afraid to give him. Well, double tap. You know, boom. Make sure he's dead. Head shot. Double Tap, Boo Boo.
Jay:
Menergy.
Steve:
Hit him as hard as you can. And and don't be out there with your medium heavy or your flexy rod. Just translate as much power to that fish's face as you can. Bigger hooks, and you need to be thinking about that Bay. It's 8 inch bait. Right, so you need to move. At least double the bait lengths to really make sure we're there. You've got to really hammering now a fish are hitting it and coming up. You got to reel into them. And that's a different and. But most of those fish hit down. It's a devastating hit. Big old wide, BKK hooks and give them them energy. Jay Speaking of energy.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steve:
Are you ready for the Muskie shot bash July 20th? Are you ready to how much hog sauce are you going to drink in?
Jay:
One day I'm going to be drinking hog sauce all day. I'm excited about the PA got kind of an EPA going and can set that up and it's going to sound great and everyone will be able to hear everything when we wander around and. Talk with all the vendors and all the cool things going on.
Steve:
What they don't realize is we're putting together an ultimate playlist to play the bash. It's all Christopher Cross songs. Silly takes me away.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steve:
But they're all covered by me and Jay. What do you think, dude?
Speaker 6
Yeah, well.
Jay:
We can bring the stage out one more.
Jay:
Time one more time. It's time to ride again, but not tonight. See. Goodnight, Jay.
Jay:
Say goodnight.
Speaker 1
Fishing can't eat nothing.
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