Musky 360 Podcast Episode 257: Spanky Baits & Steve Herbeck
Transcript:
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast. Ajay. Steve. It's a nice day.
That's cool. It's nice day for a white bucktail.
Jay:
You ever thrown a white bucktail I have.
Steven:
Deadly the The The Muppets, Mups mups musky flash not to go see pig with Mepps.
Jay:
Is it how you say? It you're going to find us. But you also have Suick. They're from the glorious city of Antigo too.
Steven:
All right.
Jay:
So you know.
Steven:
What are you going to do? You know you got freaking Mepps. You got mups, you got you got.
Jay:
Holding this powerhouse?
Steven:
Stomach equals. What are you gonna do exactly?
Jay:
It is what it is.
Steven:
Yeah, well.
Jay:
How's fishing been this?
Steven:
Week has been devastating. In what way? No, I've been smoking them it. It's that seasonal juxtaposition that happens all the time. Where you going? OK, well, it's it's cooling off up.
Jay:
It.
Steven:
North, but. Down South, the the league it's it's essentially we're getting to the end of October, which is like. I would say a month behind you. Right. 5-6 weeks maybe it worked.
Jay:
- Yeah.
Steven:
So we're getting to that prime time, which is nice. Good friend of mine. Listen to the podcast. Sean sent me a picture. You got a really nice fish on a. A joint, a believer or swim with couldn't tell, and I smoked a few in last week with with like, you know, Shell Invaders. The joint of the Headlocks been to a devastating for me. And then dive in rise. Jay, isn't it always that when the leaves change orange and the leaves change red? You know what?
Jay:
Yeah, well, leaves are gone here, But yeah, I know what you're.
Steven:
They say you know. They you know what they say, get get out of, get out, tighten.
Jay:
Saying, you know.
Steven:
It's an old Indian proverb. When the leaves are orange.
Jay:
Their eyes work the shallow. Yeah, it's shallower areas.
Steven:
Really on this, we'll. And so it will. It all come together where it would like be two senses and diving rice has been good. A little bit of top water kind of kind of disappointing on the top well, the water's like high 50s.
Jay:
Really. Yeah.
Steven:
That's not just, you know, that did not that disjointed from what you had going on a month ago, right?
Jay:
- Yeah. You you've told me in the past that November I believe is a really good month for hot water.
Steven:
It it can be just depends. I mean, I've worn I've worn shorts in December.
Jay:
Candy.
Steven:
You know, so.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
You know you you break up the freaking tighten and you do the diving risy thing. I I've put the blades away, you know, hard baits, hard baits and hard baits. So.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
That's going to be the thing, not anywhere close to live bait, but that seems to be the status quo where you're at what's hooking up, what's happening in the the Northwoods.
Jay:
Yeah, Minnesota too. Yeah, I talked to a buddy there a day that fishes in Minnesota a lot. Well, he lives there. So that's where he fishes and. It's been doing good. Got a couple really nice fish this week on suckers, but not a lot of action. Not a lot of action, some up and down, weather, you know, was mid upper 60s here today. Really windy, too funky, just blowing 70s tomorrow, Steve. Really. Yeah. Another one. And then it's going to come back down to, like, high in the 40s. Later in the week. So Yep roller coaster for.
Steven:
Nay, nay, I say.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
It's. Yeah, it's, it's goofy. You. What are you going to do with it? You know it it it is what it is it I always think about seasonality as this don't look at the calendar. Look at the conditions, right.
Speaker 3
And.
Steven:
Don't. Don't go.
Speaker 3
What's with those little cover?
Steven:
If if the water temps say. It's warm. Well, it's warm, you know. Act according. So the companies, the goings, the musky shop, Jay, we have dwindled down to the very end of anything new here. Obviously the Magnus is coming out after the first of the year. Did we talk last week about the Smith lure Spoon? I think we did.
Jay:
- I don't know if we did, but I'll tell you what I think. They're completely gone. There's maybe one left. So we're trying to get some more in for all those guys that are waiting. I know there's several people waiting on out of stock.
Steven:
Yeah. Colors. They went really fast. Jody was came into the living room.
Speaker 3
Soon.
Jay:
Yeah, real big, real big spoon flutters. Great beagles.
Speaker 3
It's a bigger, bigger.
Steven:
And, and here's Jay Jays. I think you're a solid 5. Three, right? You're a small guy. Though real little fella and you're holding that up just a wee. You could put him in your pocket, folks and take him home. So here's tiny little Jay holding up that spoon and it's a big old spoon.
Speaker 6
No.
Jay:
Yeah, it's a big old.
Steven:
Spoon Steve, it is a big old spoon you got you could you could eat your Taco sauce out of that thing. You could use it. Listen, Jay, if you're going South of the border, you could catch a muskie on it. And.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
Use it as a mocha ******.
Jay:
Well, that is, that's great.
Steven:
Well. Yeah, well, you could, but you know you're you're freaking. You've been. I've been South of Madison, but now that's a big old spoon. Pretty interesting.
Jay:
Speaker
Jay.
Steven:
Jay wears A5 a size 5 men's shoe.
Jay:
Size 5 no. Yeah, you do.
Steven:
It's a special order men's shoes. That's.
Jay:
Did you see the new beanies that?
Steven:
Smart.
Jay:
Came in today, no.
Steven:
I didn't. Three more.
Jay:
New beanies came in today. You got them on the homepage.
Steven:
You know what? OK. Can I tell you something? A random fact. Do you wanna? Why? Why? Why? Knitted caps have the palm on the top.
Jay:
Ohh the palm. Yes. See. Don't. No, I don't.
Steven:
Uh-huh. You don't hit your head on the doors. Of a ship.
Jay:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Jay:
- Or slip on a banana and then hit your head.
Steven:
On the floor, well, life is not Looney Tunes, Sir. OK, it's not.
Jay:
Nothing to do with that.
Steven:
This is not a cartoon gotcha. Get get. Get it together, Sir, please. OK, I learned that from Netflix, I believe. Where where the.
Jay:
Lot to learn.
Steven:
There where it worth, the bitter end of things that are happening. So the comings and goings of narrow, we're going to talk about more height based. Got an interesting package in the mail today.
Jay:
From.
Steven:
Don James at Figure 8.
Jay:
It's one of those new ones I bet he told. Me a. There's a couple I don't know much. Yeah.
Steven:
There's a couple sneaky. So you go. Hey, our our fish on the lake and the Muskies ain't big, right. Or spring size downsizing or springtime downsizing post spawn or just bad conditions. Got the prototype for the mini meat Grinder boys. So I'm pretty excited.
Jay:
Many. No, I did not know about that. OK.
Steven:
Yeah. I'm excited about that. We have a a buzz bait about it. You've seen that? Yeah. I've spent about a year on that. Where you.
Jay:
Yes, that's that one I heard about.
Steven:
It's not something I use all the time, but when I need it, it's ridiculous or. And and people often think like buzz bait and say it's the most redneck sounding thing ever.
Speaker 1
This beat. Wait.
Jay:
Like, no, it's got that. Swing sure, but.
Steven:
But.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
They work is kind of the stopgap when when fish are following top waters. But they're not eating them. And and it's not something I use all the time because ohh they just followed you know, Doctor Evils twice. Well, guess what? We're going to throw after that. Yeah, you got it or we've got really thick vegetation, yadda yadda yadda. So it's just another tool done our working on it. We we've about got it where we need to be. As far as something I think would be the. Most. Perfected buzz bait for my ski fishing. It's. A big old buzz bait. Oh. Exactly right, exactly. You know, put on your UT T-shirt and, you know, let your gut hang out, you redneck. Crap it, but nonetheless. The mini meat grinder is long overdue. A lot of guys love the meat grinder, so Don's working on the mini meat grinder, which is going to be. Cool. I'm. I'm still.
Jay:
What? What is that thing? How? How many does it go? What's the weight? On that thing.
Steven:
Microscopic.
Jay:
Is it 1/2 ounce closed bit spinner?
Steven:
Bit I haven't done the weight on it. It's the small frame of the figure.
Speaker 6
Jay:
- It's OK. It's like a mini boss.
Speaker
Let's look.
Steven:
Frame it's a mini boss frame, but a a meat grinder build.
Speaker 3
- Cool.
Steven:
Let's just do that real quick. Let's look.
Jay:
That that'll be huge. That'll be really.
Steven:
Good. Well, I mean. It's it's.
Jay:
First I've heard of.
Steven:
Well, you know, I don't have to tell.
Jay:
You everything. That's why I tune into this show.
Steven:
Man, just to catch up. So it's the catch up. What's going on with actually we haven't talked this much because this week cause I've been freaking slammed. So the the Mini boss. Is a Oz and a. Half right, which is a a. It's not a bass bait, but it's big. It's a big bass bait. Yeah, right. Exactly. Small blade. So the mini make moving make grounder. I came and talk many men. Oh, many man. So you have the mini meat grinder. Which is designed just like the meat grinder. Which is on the 1 1/2 ounce frame with a big old blade on it. Downturn grubs, you get the tray where you got the whole shooting match there, which is going to be devastating as a a kind of a weedless getting in the thickest things because I mean, you know, Jay, I like big fish and cannot lie.
Speaker
Hold.
Jay:
He doesn't.
Steven:
Other anglers can't deny, so you know I'm. I'm kind of swinging for the fence, but if you're on this thing, we're like, hey, let's downsize. Let's really take it down there or you're fishing on small fish water. It'll give you the capability there. So Don will, I would think by the time. That the ice breaks next year we'll have it perfected. We got it. Dang near close. We're working on a bucktail, but who cares? Yeah, well, in in the world of muscular vision, another exciting bucktail Boo. Right. We'll talk about that at some point. I'm not like over the moon about it. We'll probably make seven of them for me, but the mini meat grinder mini, it's so tiny, Jay.
Speaker 6
Jay:
Well, I'm looking forward to that one. Be honest with you. That's all good.
Steven:
That I I I detect a lie.
Jay:
Yeah, it would be.
Speaker
Hmm.
Jay:
A good one.
Steven:
Empathetic. Jason, I love it now. So that's going on, man. The comings and goings. Yeah. You got beanies and a mini me grinder. Guys. OK, yeah, I'll get it. OK, calm yourselves. Calm yourself down. Right, take a chill. Pill. Take a chill pill. I know you're freaking out right now. You're in your car. You're just basically you're wrecking right now. So we're.
Jay:
Mm-hmm. We're kind of right in between there, Steve. You know, it's just like musky fishing season is wrapping up essentially, and it's a little bit, it's a little bit early for all the new releases, you know.
Speaker 1
But.
Jay:
So all you could do is. Hazel.
Jay:
Would be great if it was cold, you know.
Steven:
Here's some there's some hot sucker tactics because it's actually cold, but.
Jay:
There's plenty of time for that. It it it'll.
Steven:
Happen. Yeah, well, the problem is, all the boomers had to have their McDonald's meals and Styrofoam in the 80s and weren't paying the price. You know, days. What? What? I'd I'd said it to her back. Everybody's wearing white rein, and they're eating out of Styrofoam, and they've just murdered the environment.
Jay:
Yeah, I got.
Steven:
You, you know, I'm teasing. I'm not working. I'm driving an electric car or something here. Don't get me wrong. I'm just being I have nothing else to say. Anyway, Speaking of her back, I caught him up, gave him a bag of ****. Here it comes.
Speaker 6
- Yes.
Steven:
What up, Herbie? I heard you're smacking him up there. What's going on up in Canada right now? My friend.
Speaker 7
Well, the boat has been really good, but we had a switching weather here in the last couple of days and. With the the Fisher you. Know kind of lethargic. I mean, it's like today, for instance, we probably had half a dozen fish. 50 inches or better chasing baits and following live baits and stuff and they won't eat. Switch to the east here, but prior to that it was pretty darn good. I know Danny got a big 40 pounder couple days ago and I was getting you know.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 7
50 inch fish and butter to love. I only had a couple days. I had fish under 47 inches for about two weeks.
Steven:
Oh, oh, Wayne Wayne Wayne.
Speaker 7
And so so we're kind of tearing the hair out of our head today and yesterday we had a lot of high.
Jay:
Yeah.
Speaker 7
10s fifty kilometers or better? And so that's made it difficult for us to just where we wanted to fish. But you know, I've seen this kind of stuff before. It will turn right around. Unfortunately, I'm leaving. After tomorrow and heading to northern Wisconsin, so those of the guys that are going to be up there for a while yet, they're coming up later, I suspect it's going to be gained us this year. They're still just just books 50°. Can you believe that going into the first? Yeah.
Steven:
It's cause. That's what Danny had said the other week. Yeah, but she was like, well, this right now should be. I mean, you were tearing it up. It was prime time. But like, there's an extended kind of thing that's about to happen, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 7
Ohh yeah, normally normally we're close to the channels and stuff, you know, possibly between bases freezing up and packs the base and stuff and and I mean, yeah.
Steven:
Now we're close. No, no, no. I know you're on the boat right now. And and guys, he's actually. Talking on a cell phone out here in the middle of eagle, right. Yeah, I know you have have kind of mastered rigging, suckers you. You've been integral in a lot of different designs. What's with live baits being so prevalent right now? What are some of your like hard rules or what are you looking for in a sucker? Rig.
Speaker 7
567 off hooks heavy wire. Dangling all kinds of hardware on them when when we've actually had a fairly tough bite, but because of going to very small darkened hooks like 2-2 hot is the biggest. I'm using one hots even but then but them let them you know, round that gamma godson.
Speaker 8
MHM.
Speaker
Well.
Speaker 7
The owners, you know, they they bury right through anything and they hold the biggest fish to us. You don't need all the big ones going to lighter wire, 60 LB wire and just watching it after 3-4. Listen, y'all long line and instead of right under the boat, like most of my bigger fish have either been on a long line or a planer board away from the boat which tells me I don't know. Is it the scope or is it the boat that they're leery of? I'm not sure, but they're leery of something. And and in northern Wisconsin. Especially you know where everybody has been running live baits for 50 years. I think it's probably even more of a factor to consider. Stealth and distance from the boat and and things like that you know. So those are those are things that I think.
Speaker 6
Right.
Steven:
Let let me.
Speaker 7
Like are people are a lot of people are missing.
Steven:
You just said something and it's funny. Usually when we talk, there's little tidbits I catch on and it kind of sparks my memory. I've told people in the night in a in a nice way, not like you would say. I know how you would say to people, but. I've. Told people. Be quiet when the suckers are, you would probably hit them. With a hammer and. Scream at them. But you know. See if it's coming out the sucker, right. And restarts.
Speaker 7
This is this. I got great live baits, right? I got them rigged when they're in the water outside the boat. You can't even see my rigs. And I'll bet you a what though. Yeah. 1012 fish today that you know from past experiences on the grass, so we'll probably 50 inch plus fish. Problem beats for as long as 100 yards and not riding in.
Speaker 6
Speaker 7
So you know, and I, I don't know, I don't know what else I can do and and that then then you know and and the.
Steven:
Gotta be selfish.
Speaker 7
Got. It's have been you, you know, it's the way it is. When every the bites the windows are short, the they're biting on moons, you know, almost exclusively, you know. So you know it's it's just something that's going on. Things are off, you know. But but it's.
Speaker 6
Really.
Speaker 7
Now they just have been caught by being, you know, a little bit more cautious about how you do things, pay very close attention to where you've seen or or have big fish flower during the day get. Being there, you know, half hour before the moon and being an atom during the first half hour of the moons and stuff like that. Those are the keys right now, you know.
Steven:
Paying. Yeah. Game. You got a game plan, strategize and pay attention. What? What? What kind of things? You know, let's say somebody, because this is coming for for northern Wisconsin, Minnesota and some other places where where? You know what? What the winner has to show up here, right? It can't be 50° all.
Speaker 7
Right, right.
Steven:
But well, it'll be weird. Be weird, but we probably if it is, we have bigger problems than muskie fishing at that point. But you know, when you get in this cold water period or should be cold water, period.
Speaker 7
No, I hope not.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You know what kind of baits are you using to at least get those follows to locate fish? I think a lot of people struggle with locating fish.
Speaker 7
Well, you know, most of the most of the brakes. That we've been getting on the live baits have been 18 to 30 feet, Jack Clifton, who's a good big old fishing partner, mine and caught lives assisting us. American, the largest fish in Wisconsin Northgate. Over the years. You got a cell phone with me last week and that was.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 7
Over 53 feet of water, 18 feet down. So most of the time, though, we're fishing off structure 18 to 26 feet. Lattices are out laying out in the mud. And now in the last couple of days, even though the bites become tougher, we're seeing a lot more fish come in the same day. It's off the structure. But prior to that, even now. We use a lot of rubber baits. You know the the, the, the, that new sandwich. Cross those suckers been amazing. I think it's just this thing gets sick of looking at tubes and it's just a little bit different. You know Bulldogs, you know things like that. You know stuff that we can count down and work down and break you know. Stuff like that. So, but you know, at the same time, if you got some more cash stuff on top or something, you know like a. Like a founder or a grandma or a sneaky Pete or something like that. You know, for those because they can be anywhere, right? Like I said, you know, they can be 50 feet deep, they can be 50 feet, 18 feet down. They can be two feet wide or anyways in between. So.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 7
You know, you gotta kind. Of cover the bases, but most of the fishing. Comments. On the deeper end of the spectrum, off the shallow.
Speaker 3
And.
Speaker 7
They're actually kept that we're actually catching.
Steven:
Right, right. You have fish staging everywhere, but the ones that will eat are. Yeah, that and that. That's it's funny. I just ran. I literally ran to that yesterday. Were like, OK. Yeah, they're suspend those. We just trolled over them all day long. You're seeing them on paying. You're seeing them on everything, and you go well, the the eaters are shallow right now. It it just is what it is.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, and you and you kind of look at somebody and go well, Muskies have to be somewhere, you know, they just don't. They just don't disappear into thin air when they're not eating. You know, they gotta have. They got to hang out somewhere. So. But I.
Speaker 7
So I just don't know what's going on here. I've never. I've never. I mean, you always get some fish that lazily follow live bait or or lazily follow artificials and stuff or combinations up, but I've just never seen it to this extent. And when they do that, it just it. I don't think it's conditioning or anything. Like, did you stay hungry? Yeah.
Steven:
You know in in.
Speaker 7
You know when, when, when they bite? Only on moons and stuff. That's the the peak of the, you know, the well, maybe get him to, you know, become a little more aggressive. You know, normally we catch them all, you know, through the day with weather changes and and wind shifts and stuff like that too. Besides that also. And that's not even happening. So for some reason.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 7
This weather the maybe. The maybe the temperatures warmer than than than what the daylight hours tell the fish that should be maybe maybe something. All this you know put together is causing these. First to perhaps only feed that moves and or maybe they're feeding at night.
Speaker 1
MMM.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 7
I I I don't know know I'm.
Steven:
Do you think it could it be global warming from all the aquanet everybody used in the 1980s? All the hair, all the hair metal bands.
Speaker 6
Oh.
Steven:
You know, I know you're.
Speaker 7
Yeah, 59 it is loud line it is. It's muskie fishing. We try and figure out we cut some big ones here and there and we actually had some pretty good stretches in the last three weeks. Just the last couple of days with a shift in weather and high winds has.
Steven:
Eating. You're eating your quarter pounders out of Styrofoam? Yeah.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 7
Made it tougher. But you know, I think I'm still gonna get a few, like, take pictures with.
Steven:
Absolutely, absolutely. Let me ask you this before I let you get back to fishing the the the proverbial question when it comes to to soccer fishing hook sets.
Speaker 7
You know what I mean? Yeah.
Steven:
What? What do you do?
Speaker 7
Well, personally if I got any experience fisherman, I like to quickly set up to where the fish is directly straight down. I very seldom have ever missed a fish in that scenario. Other than that, if a fish is going, you know slightly.
Jay:
Right.
Speaker 7
Way at an angle and and and somebody you know can can do a real good hookset kind of rod.
Speaker 3
MHM.
Speaker 7
Uh. 45 parallel to the water opposite, so the fish is going. That's a good soil. If a if a fish takes off screaming. Yeah, it does. It does not just the swimming. But I'm saying takes off and doesn't stop that fish is running for his life. It hit the beach.
Speaker 6
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 7
How hard it knows it's up. Yeah. Do you take? I don't care how far that fish is away. You smoke that fish as hard as you can. Two or three times. Really. It it. It's crank it again. Because by the time you get to the fish. To to set the hook and probably will have shook the hook. She'll be shaking the whole time trying to.
Steven:
That's a great point that that's a that's at least for me, that's a rare one, but it does happen where they hit the sucker so hard to go there. It's it's like if they hit a I always thought like if they hit say like a blue gill, right, blue gills got a pretty dominant dorsal thin on it or like a.
Speaker 7
Get rid of the bed. Yes.
Steven:
Some kind of, you know, in a natural predation, they're going to get stuck, which is bad, and how they get them out of their mouth. They shake their head.
Speaker 7
Yeah, since there were an inch long.
Steven:
You know it's.
Speaker 7
Yeah, I'll do that.
Steven:
They're gonna Malfoy open, shaking their head going, you know. No, no, boy, no, no good. So that's interesting. Because like I said, sometimes you'll be fishing. Oh, OK. We just lost 100 feet of line before we could even realize what was going on. And they're screaming with the thing. So and. And you think with those, just blast them, blast them.
Speaker 7
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker
Lee.
Speaker 7
You got to you can't get. You can't catch up too fast enough before the most time before they shake it. But if they just go zip, they usually wanna go from 15 feet, then they start just slowly swimming for deeper water. Those I like to catch up to as fast as I can. And.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Steven:
Yeah, typical.
Speaker 7
If, like so, if it's experienced people, especially if I think it's a really big person, I like to be right over the top of right over the top. Oh man, I hardly have ever missed a fish.
Steven:
No, straight up and down. You just smoke em, so you know it's it's one of those things where there's so many dynamics there. What? What the what sucker rig are you using right now?
Speaker
What?
Steven:
Or how are you? How are you constructing?
Speaker 7
I just I just make. I just make my own. It's the modifications that will be rigged. You know, I make all my own. I use 60 LB. Wire. I take one out, two out owner gamma gases and use it towards and heat heat up one of. The hooks to straighten it so it goes in and under pin in the in under the skin and help the skin so the bulb holds the the hook there comes out really easy adds either rubber band that I like. You know what you know for ease of people when the water's weather's real cold, it's pretty tough to beat that somewhere clip.
Speaker 3
MHM.
Steven:
Yeah, pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 7
For most people, but but when fish are really, really tough, you can't be a black rubber, black or bond. You know, rubber band with the style through the nasal passages. It really is as clean a rig as you can possibly get.
Steven:
Now for our older listeners, what size Circle Hook do you recommend for an old-fashioned? Kill rig Herbie. If you intend to. Just club him when you him in.
Speaker 7
They get, they get thrown out of the boat into the water.
Steven:
Just get your old kill rig going there, boys and suckers. See Good eater sons. I'm teasing you. Anyway, I'll let you get back to fishing, guys.
Speaker 7
Yeah, now. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta get going. We got sunset coming up. You know, we we got a couple of girls that we gotta go try and dance with.
Steven:
Prime time. Absolutely. Well, her back is perfected. Live bait fish. And he's been smoking. Guys. Thank you so much.
Jay:
Jay.
Jay:
Yes, Steve.
Steven:
How I was picking on her back. He didn't like that comment about how much aquanet he used in the 80s, did he?
Jay:
Well, it's true. I mean, think about it. Yeah, it did more damage than any one person.
Steven:
Did did you know he was in a?
Jay:
On the planet, did he?
Steven:
He was in a Flock of Seagulls cover band.
Jay:
He was. He was.
Steven:
In 85 down to Madison, yeah, yeah.
Jay:
That's in between guiding too. He was working his tail off. You know, he'd guide during the day and then he'd play, you know, Iran.
Speaker 3
And I threw a troll too far today. I couldn't catch a ski.
Speaker 8
So. Away. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Jay:
Get away.
Steven:
It was disgusting. It was. They called him Steve Herbeck and the flock of Muskie Gulf. Did they? That's that's what I heard. I wasn't lying.
Jay:
OK, multi talented guy.
Steven:
If you were you, you my. He he really. Was, you know, he played the sousaphone in the band. You know, so you.
Jay:
Good stuff. Yeah, it was good to hear.
Steven:
From Herbie, though? Yeah, hearing from him that the the weather's so weird. I'm dude, we're teasing. It's weather weather. I don't care, right?
Jay:
It's always going.
Steven:
To happen. I'm. I'm. I'm sitting here going. We have our own weatherman, Jay.
Jay:
I wish we had our old.
Steven:
Weatherman, we do the Muskie weatherman.
Speaker 1
Did or do you need?
Steven:
I called him. Yes, here it comes.
Speaker 3
We're sorry, the number you have dialed is not in service at this time.
Steven:
All right. I gotta know. The weather's so wacky. Her back just said it's screwy. I had to cop the muskie weather. Man, how are you this evening? Are you on the on the broadcast? Steve and Paul, how are you doing tonight? Am wonderful. Anyway, screw screw is a good word for it. I mean you you could use 4 letters and make it a little more vulgar I think.
Speaker 1
Skrillex.
Steven:
Every any day of the week, baby, I I was just picking on her back. I asked if it was all the awkward net he used in his hair in the 80s.
Speaker 6
Good theory. Dippity do you do?
Steven:
You know all the all he was. At A at a Motörhead concert, puffing his hair up back in. Today, what's happening Herbeck just said it's in the 50s, mid 50s. As far as water temp in Canada, obviously you got a degree in meteorology. You knew some things about the weather, what is happening right now. It's crazy. It's delayed fall. Really. I mean, you know, we've had a little at least in. My neck of the woods. We've had a few. Freezes and frosts overnight that that have done some things for the water. Yeah, exactly. The neighbors out.
Speaker 6
There with the.
Steven:
The sheets covering the covering, the mums to. Come, come, right. Right. But yeah. No, I've noticed it, too. I was actually out. Not another weekend ago. And and water water temp was surprisingly cool. It was almost like this. Like, did we turn over? What did we do? Because it it was like mid 50s. But I thought it should.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
The warmer actually from from the weather we've had, but all it takes is a few nights. You know, you get some ******** freezes. We were down in the mid 20s, but we really just had a stagnant weather pattern, you know, across the Midwest and really standing up into the southern Canada, that's kind of put.
Speaker 6
The put the. The transition in the flux this year.
Steven:
That's in. It's funny, you say I I didn't even think about staggering, but I was on on the old Twitter. Some people called X now right. And and and they said from where I was at, there wasn't a cloud within 200 miles. Mouse.
Speaker 6
Yeah, it's finished. Yes. Yep.
Steven:
Literally, for this really weird like you've got a West Coast East Coast thing, you know is is it, is it a matter of the Hurricanes? What what what would you think caused this and what would bring things back into into focus. You've essentially had a a big Ridge of high pressure that's been dominant.
Speaker 6
Well, yeah.
Steven:
From from really the Intermountain West all the way into the upper Midwest up into Canada, Southern Canada, kind of on a. Southwest and northeast orientation and and and again that's that's kind of rendered itself to some of the hurricane development, steering hurricanes up into Florida because they're on the the front side of that Ridge or the east side of that Ridge. So it's all been the same. Whenever you have tropical cyclones, they mess up the the prevailing weather pattern. You need. You need like a kicker, you need some things to start. Start moving the weather and and and we're actually starting to see that now. I think in the next couple of weeks we'll start to. See bigger storms. Not only did we, you know, we haven't had the traditional colder fall weather in my neck of the woods in Minnesota and Upper Midwest, but we haven't had a drop of rain. We went 30 days without a drop of rain. Yeah, just insane. Not not what you'd expect this time of year. Hardly a cloud to be found in the sky. Same. You know which, obviously that's never good for fishing as well, but we're starting to see some things change up it 1 positive. Steven delayed ice. I know, doctor Randy, that that probably hurts his feelings because he's a big ice fan. But.
Jay:
The fun person right costs.
Steven:
Me money here.
Speaker 6
Exactly. Exactly.
Steven:
But, but hopefully you know, we'll have a delayed freeze up. They'll leave the docks in and that'll make maybe that early early in the mid November fishing a little bit like mid-october. Oh yeah, that yeah, I literally talked to a podcast listener yesterday. He was like, hey, I'm thinking about going to Wisconsin and, you know, after Thanksgiving. I'm sitting there going you probably could.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, you might be able to. I mean it, it won't take long once we, you know, get some of those freeze ups. But I'm not planning to put the boat away for a couple of weeks. I'm looking at the extended and I think I've got at least two or three more, three more outings to go which you know this this. Time of year. That's really unheard of. Yeah, I mean, you're you're getting even here in the South, I mean today.
Jay:
They.
Steven:
Obviously we have, like you know, 4550 in the morning, whatever, which is chilly for. Me ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, switch work right you. You gotta pull your socks up a little. They can't get much higher. Son. I'm over. I'll RIP holes in the end if I get them. Socks much higher. Almost paid. Almost pants season with a flannel punk. But you know I'm sitting here. Flannel song territory for you. And. You know, there's a few years where it's like, OK, the week of Halloween coming into this year, it's cold, it's not cold, cold for you, but it it it, it's knocking down, is that a matter of is for for I don't know anything worth of crap, but is it a pressure thing that's keeping like the wind out of the north of that that the. Movements out of the north buffered is there like a force that that that's pushing out of the South to the north or what does that kind of look like? Like, well, it's all you know this time of year. It's all it. It can't stay warm forever, right? I mean, the days are shorter. It's it's entering dark phases in the northern latitudes, Alaska and northern Canada. That cold air is building. You can see it. They just had a record snowstorm in in Fairbanks, a foot of snow. Why do you know? Why? Do you know this? I know, I know. Keep track of. But that cold air, you know, all it takes is northern latitude. Snow, Snow cover the darkness, the lack of daylight, that cold air. It's gonna build up. It's gonna build South. It's inevitable. But for now, I'd say just enjoy it. I mean, I hate to admit it, but we're going to turn the air conditioner on tomorrow. It's supposed to be 80° up in my neck of the woods, and that's same here. Yeah, same here. It's like 79 to 80, and you're just going holy Cannoli. But you know and Doc, where Randy can't get his natural harvest this early, which is horrible for his business model and. Exactly. And then how's Cliff gonna get out of town with the ice Rd. It's not. Even gonna form. There's not even an ice Rd. for Cliff, and he's now boyfriend Doc Boy Randy to get out of town on and it's difficult. Yeah.
Speaker 6
Exactly. So we'll say our prayers.
Steven:
Yeah. So you know, would you? Is is what's happening now, right? And I'm just, I'm teasing. I'm not climate change guy made a couple jokes earlier or whatever, but you know, gets just hot button. I like to. I like to poke the bear on the case.
Speaker 1
Right, yeah.
Steven:
Is it cyclical? Is it systemic of what happened in the South, how it's affecting the north? What would your educated take be on on why? And I know that's a that it's a mask. Yeah, that's that gets into all kinds of things. You know, it's it's it's no, there's no doubt. There's no doubt that the weather has trended warmer lately in, in fall.
Speaker 6
Yes.
Steven:
Not. We used to think of October as a cold month. It it really doesn't feel that way anymore. Although I'll tell you last year we had snow on Halloween where I live, which doesn't happen very often, so. It snowed at the. Tell you what, Christmas Christmas at the dump. You know, there's a reference to a floating trash heap, you know, at a political rally this weekend. I'm on the other floating trash heap.
Speaker 6
Little survey north.
Steven:
So yeah, so people can draw their own conclusions. I think the jury's still out on it. You know, people have people have stolen that narrative for political and other reasons, so I won't even go there. But.
Speaker 3
Right.
Steven:
But the trend, the trend of late is. Warmer.
Speaker 6
But it still.
Steven:
Gets pretty damn cold where I live every year, so I am not. I'm all for it. I guess that's where I'm at because, you know, whatever causation is not my problem and I won't. I won't be alive for it. So I'm not going to worry.
Speaker 3
That's where.
Steven:
Worry about it, right? You know, but you know, like you said, I mean, as a kid, I grew up. It's like, OK, October was. It I remember waiting for the bus and I'm not talking about ZZ Top waiting for the bus. I'm sitting there chattering my teeth going kill me now, you know.
Speaker 6
Or.
Steven:
Crisscross you missed.
Speaker
The bus.
Steven:
Chris cross. Ohh Dang. Anyway, wow. But you know it. It was far colder then. When? What I'm going for is like, you know, is is is Southern motion. You know? Whatever. Not a letter question don't care necessarily. I'm sure that somebody is sitting in pill Waukee right now.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 6
Making them mad.
Speaker
But.
Steven:
Making them mad. But you gotta look at. It as a as a whole. Your prediction? You're like the Jimmy the Greek of weather right now, right? You're doing your best. You're in Minnesota. How long do you got?
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Steven:
Before the ice comes. There'll be ice. All we need is 11 decent snow event and then you know you get snow on the ground, you get the long nights. It'll happen. I I I think we're probably in line for ice around Thanksgiving. OK, get it done. Now is what you're saying, but that's a that's actually a big that should be a big opportunity though, like you said, that's that's two. What is that 3-4 weekends?
Speaker 6
Yeah, get it done down and enjoy it.
Steven:
Yeah. I mean, yeah, you at least got three weeks. You know, I've I've been looking at some of the longer range stuff and the pattern, the pattern looks a little more active, but there are hints at at some warm, a warm period around Veteran's Day as well. So you know, the question is, I mean, and this is for you, this is where you make your money. But but what does it do for the? Wait, what do you? Throw I. You don't for in my opinion, you where you're at with. Excuse me, Minnesota, right?
Speaker 6
Yeah, I'm Minnesota.
Steven:
I'm going to put crash test. Dummies. My my cousin Eddie, right. I'm going to get my nephew. That's three years old. A monkey with a hat on. I'm going to get every human being.
Speaker 6
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Quote UN quote in the boat. Troll when I troll 12 inch headlock as many bases in the water as I can get, I'm going to get on the outside brake and kind of comb that from like 5 to 15.
Speaker 6
- Yeah.
Steven:
You know, get out there and freaking was. Dying weed lines and just just hit it and. Well, how fast? How fast are?
Speaker
You driving the boat?
Steven:
Steven. I've I've been with you trolling, so I know what it's like. You're you're, like, left. I mean, it's imagine. Imagine the drunk driver folks. That is the calling pattern. The the throttle. The throttle is is, is, is real and and the the steering wheel is is your motion so.
Jay:
You will. That's it.
Speaker 6
Right.
Steven:
Or do you remember how many baits did we lose that day and everybody's looking me like he doesn't even care? Know, but I I still have a bruise from from the rod snapping on that one. So. I when I troll ID. Drive it it. It's like you know.
Speaker 6
That was an abusive day, I think.
Steven:
You yelled at me later that day, too. Hope I did, I hope I did.
Speaker 6
Yeah, I was. I was. I secretly enjoyed it.
Steven:
What you used to, so you're used to, but I'm a soft touch, but it's. The the erratic Ness of that is obviously creating lifts, falls, dips and darts, right, I think. I think the kiss of death and trolling is like we're going to troll this Bricklin and this straight line, which is like completely non organic.
Speaker 6
Exactly. Yep, Yep. Hmm.
Steven:
If I'm where you're at, ohh I'm going. To.
Speaker 7
You know, I had heard you preach it before. Yeah, I've heard you.
Steven:
You're gonna catch the spread, yeah. Preach it before, but to witness it was different like. Dude it.
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I had. I called the Coast Guard and I was like, is it legal to have a cheater knob on your steering wheel? Like what? And I was like, OK, there's no law against that. I have, like, what truck drivers would use to slide dock boy Randy over closer to him on the steering wheel when they make a left. Right. I think that's that.
Speaker 6
Yeah. Nice.
Steven:
Thing is, what the boomers would call a neck or knob because you used to be on the neck with your girlfriend while you were driving your car. Well, you do what you gotta do. But yeah, I got the Necker knob on there and it it.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
It's erratic it. It's like I when we had hit stuff and like we've we've trolled together, I'm going alright we're going to hit what?
Speaker 8
Right.
Speaker 6
Yes.
Steven:
And I back it down a little bit and pray it floats out. And if it didn't, you break it off and you go well. Next tie another one on. You know, highly aggressive trolling, and I was there for it.
Speaker 1
It it's.
Steven:
Well, that's something I don't talk about. A lot of the podcasts of. Like if I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1
I'm a highly aggressive.
Speaker 3
Like, that's like some.
Steven:
Boomer like I'm wearing AT shirt. That's like, don't mess with me. I'm a grandpa on the back. Like I like garlic bread and Donald Trump, you know?
Speaker 1
Paul.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
An error that says I was. Right, exactly. You just got this this kind of like this motif. If I'm gonna buy that like I troll with reckless abandoned, I might hit a rock with the motor, right? I I'm trying to make. And the one thing I think that you're it's resonating with you. We went in front of this island and there's this.
Speaker 6
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
Giant rock.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
I think I broke broke off 2 bats in row three. OK, OK. And I turn around, tie on three want.
Speaker 6
It was three, yeah.
Steven:
To go, let's do it again. Right. I'm a glutton for financial punishment.
Speaker 6
Yes.
Steven:
But you go.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
This is what it takes. Where dude it and also too. I mean we're talking hybrids. Done.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Steven:
The three-point bait check. There was No 3 point. There was one bait check. Everything's on the bottom. Forget about everybody. Yeah, and. And we're not talking like your standard deep water troll. This is like changing terrain, hitting rocks. I mean, you, you are finding the hidden, the hidden fish.
Speaker 1
Through town, yeah.
Steven:
Praying that they hit, but yeah, you know, just just willing to. You know it at a certain point you go well. I'm willing to take the knocks. Yeah, I I it is what it is. You know it's you go from Weatherman to freaking karate. Gee, instructor like you, right, you know.
Speaker 8
Aye.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Steven:
I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take some knocks doing this, right? Your your black belt instructor. But it's. They'll be. Some hits. Yeah, it's, it's. But it's a high risk.
Speaker 6
High reward.
Steven:
Right, exactly. And I'm saying that, you know, kind of in the same way you're thinking when you go well, I get, I get to whip some ***, but I get my get my ***** whipped a little bit, you know. So so basically. What you're trying to say is 3.3 mph. Is that what you're? Yes, that it will be 2.4 now.
Speaker 3
So I have.
Steven:
A war thumb. So if the temp is five, I'm below 5.
Speaker 6
Yeah. OK.
Steven:
Right. You never go Buffalo, which is in general, right. So I want to be 3:00 to 5:00.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 6
Steven:
Now that means my turning radius as well though, which is 3 point. Five on a hard turn can get. Up to five. And and it's a later question.
Speaker 6
- Yep. On on the hard side. Yep.
Steven:
On the hard side, which is. How do you how do you figure out what 5 is on the hard side? So what he's saying by the hard side is so let's, let's say we're going in a straight line. And. You know, you're driving down the right list in the podcast right now, or you're you're passed on the Florida, Texas Roadhouse. Whatever it is that you listen, you're you've had 13 at Chili's and they're kicking me out. Whatever is right ahead of you.
Speaker 6
He's there on Saturday. Choose your own event.
Steven:
As we turn. Hard port, hard starboard. That rod will dig in. You've gotta realize what that 5 looks like. So you've gotta take. Let's say we're throwing, craves, or grandmas or headlocks or whatever, right? What does 5 look like on the rod?
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
Not 5 on the speedometer.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
It's an action thing.
Speaker 6
OK, yeah, more bounce.
Steven:
So well, when when let's say let's say we take a 10 inch headlock, 35 feet long.
Speaker 6
Maybe.
Steven:
It looks different as far as rod angle and dig towards the surface. And and and the amount of bend at 5 miles an hour. So you gotta test it in a straight line. Go. That's 5 miles an hour. Right. So if I'm going straight and dead straight, one bearing 1 heading, that's what 5 looks like.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I want to make fives on my turns, so I want to contact cover and structure at about 3:00.
Speaker 6
Move.
Steven:
But what I want the rod to look like 55 when you're on the turn. OK, I get it. You've opened my eyes.
Speaker 6
On.
Steven:
You see what I'm saying? Where it's like, which is we make initial contact, which is. I got your attention. Hello.
Speaker 6
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You're following me, but on the turn subsequently, after making contact where I think a muskie will be, I want nothing more than A5. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that's deep. Well, I need. I need a hobby. But when? When you're this far down the ramp. Ohh, you're going. That's yes.
Speaker 6
Have you considered music?
Steven:
Yeah, you know what? I'm. Picking up crocheting this week, I've. I found I found a support group that I'm going to get with and they're going to talk to me about my. Problem. So anyway, well, the Muskie weatherman, he, he he chimes in yet again.
Speaker 6
Awesome stars.
Steven:
Which one? Huh. Happy to be a part of it, Steven, anytime. To five stars the new. Chat pile album. That that's a. That's a four nine for me, the four nines. It's right. I'm live. Oh, I I got rattling speakers in the car, buddy. That's that's good to hear. I I mean you got to dial down the enthusiasm. Sometimes I want to run through.
Speaker 6
A wall but.
Steven:
You know, on a scale of one to five, how disappointing is Doc Boy Randy as a person? Well, I mean in Crocs are not wearing Crocs. Alright guys, thank you. Muskie weather. Man, we'll hear from you again soon.
Speaker 6
Sounds good.
Steven:
Jay, how informative was that? I feel I feel like I.
Jay:
Went to school meteorology 101 plus several other numbers.
Steven:
Yeah, doc by Randy talk. Woody, I carve your name in the desk at school. Jay, I did and said Steve Hearts. Jay, is that weird? Does that make you feel anything?
Speaker 1
Oh.
Steven:
Are you dead? Are you?
Speaker 1
Make you feel me?
Steven:
Do anything are you? I'm dead inside. Sounds like a new cover band. JS. He's dead inside. Nothing but the hits from the band, the cult they play. She sells sanctuary once every sin.
Jay:
What's that seat one. What's that one seat? To the edge of the seat. Bree, what do?
Steven:
You say wow. You pay for the whole seed.
Speaker 1
But you owe me, man.
Steven:
Yeah, baby. Anyway, goodness gracious. Now it's interesting, I mean, the muscle meteorologist is highly educated in meteorology and and in muskie fishing. That's why we call him that. What are you going to?
Jay:
Do great job.
Steven:
You know, also like the band chat pile. Winches bout lead tailings and weird sock, but nonetheless we fish with dog boy Randy. Unfortunately, it was kind of uncomfortable for for both of us as as you can well tell, you know it's like. Youth. Dog Boy arrangement of these people to make kind of suck between your teeth when his name comes out. Jay, it's like you like.
Jay:
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, Steve.
Steven:
Yeah, close, but nonetheless. So Jane, we've been talking about the comings and goings in the muskie shop, right, comings and goings and what's new, what's cool it's, you know, we've talked about them so many times on the show, whether it be, you know, they're Bucktails, whether it be the whip, whip lash, you know, it's like that's a.
Jay:
Yeah, sure. There's always something.
Steven:
Donkey Kong of a spinner bait, you know like.
Jay:
There is.
Steven:
Yeah. You sent me one. I get my. Hands on, OK. I see where we're going. Here, you. See that? It's a tool. Yeah, tool.
Jay:
It's a.
Steven:
You're a tool, Jay. Get your hands on.
Jay:
Thank you. The side over here, Steve. Even more so, I feel about this big.
Steven:
Tool of the month, Jesse. But.
Jay:
Yeah, it's change that thing, but.
Steven:
That was so good. Sorry you killed. Oh. But you know, get your hands on some of these baits and you see where what what people are thinking so. And we had the honor the privilege to talk to Dan. Dan Moates Jay gave me.
Jay:
It's kind of a once in a lifetime. Yeah, it's a once in a lifetime event and it's just like who better than to talk to than Dan Moats, owner, chief designer of Spanky Bates Leonard Roll.
Speaker 6
Who better?
Steven:
Jay, Jay, we got him. Right? We did. We got Dan moves from Spanky Bates. He finally he finally picked him up a cell phone. Guys, he didn't have one before tonight. And here he is. Finally with us. Dan, congratulations. You have a cell phone? We gave him a shout. A Bay I've been really excited to see come back. We've talked about it so much. And and and it's kind of the thing that's legend and lore people ohh behind closed doors and the quiet corners of Rangers, they talk about Grandma AM 9. So is is if it's like you know you gotta find a crack dealer to get these things. Obviously, Dan, you you understand how relevant that bait is, you've brought back the M9 Pro, the M7 Pro. What made you do that and and and and what have you done to kind of make that bait? You know, available now kind of. Walk me through your entire thought process on on the importance of this bait for your trolling game casting game and and and what you guys went through to make that bait relevant again.
Speaker 8
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean. Years ago, when we owned Grandma allures right, we learned we learned an awful lot. We learned. We learned a lot of things on. Great base and big fish, but then at the same time we kind of learned, we learned some lessons on things that go wrong and and changes that need to be made. And, you know, being continuously improving things. And there was there's a nice gap here between the the time that we own.
Jay:
MMM.
Speaker 8
Allures and now.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 8
And we never put down the project of taking and making this. Eat better. Yeah, of course. Like the old days, right? The old M9. The old Magnus Strike M9 was the one that everybody loved. And you know me included and. We we use. These bases, especially in the fall like the M7 and the M9, the phenomenal twitching games we just.
Jay:
Absolutely.
Speaker 8
Got. We just got back from northern Wisconsin. On a trip. I had two younger guys with me, you know, reeling the machines and the one wouldn't put down the new wouldn't put down the. New at 9:00. He just just absolute big fish machine. It raised the most fish it caught. The most fish, it's a fantastic. Lure. And So what we decided to. Do you know? One of the goals was to take and improve that whole piece over time. Now it's no longer a gramma lures piece. It's a Spanky baits piece and we've taken that bait instead of, you know, injecting this like a hollow cavity injection. It's now solid. It's a solid resin.
Speaker 6
Uh-huh.
Steven:
Right, right, right.
Speaker 8
And it's a it's a material that we call flexor. And what that means is that Steven means that it's aerated, so it's got we're able to control the specific gravity of. The resin. Tickets poured, which gives us absolute precision when it comes to the times and the rise. Yeah, exactly. The buoyancy and the beat. So now but.
Steven:
Yeah. We were talking not to catch up. Literally last week. Jay, correct me wrong last week or the week before we were talking about.
Speaker 3
Hmm.
Steven:
Applications in shallow situations in the fall, we're talking about this Bay and how it is, whether it be a tightened sewage or whatever. But the lip of that bait and the buoyancy is so devastating. The dead and dying weeds, because if you control the buoyancy you've you've kind of nailed that, which is the RIP Twitch Paul. And that that, you know, it changes up this time of year, wouldn't you agree Dan?
Speaker 8
Yeah, 100% this to us. We were casting this thing and you were from over 20 feet of water and 810 feet of water. And yeah, like so. And and now here's one of the things too, right. Like one of the problems that we always had in the old days was that when you, when you mold the plastic hollow lure, eventually they start to leak. And then then you got all sorts of buoyancy problems.
Speaker 6
No.
Speaker 8
This now this is solid so. There's no more leaking. Yeah, it's got a, it's got a through wire. It's got a heavy duty like that 7, two that we're known for that 7 two wire through wire. Right. So now if a baby, if you know, let's just say you run into hogzilla and she comes up and she breaks the beat because she gets here.
Steven:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Jay:
It ain't gonna be the best. Yeah, she gets.
Speaker 8
Since she breaks the beat and then, but she still got hooks in her because the two wire. Holds on right, so everybody's big concern about that is, is over. Yeah, the new polycarbonate lip. Right. It's a it's a stronger material on the lip. It's a thicker lip. And it's also a design that we, you know, like in the old days we used to say, yeah, if the grandma lip breaks like it was a design. Where you could not. Replace that lip. And of course now in this new design, if that should happen, the design is there that we can. Replace the lip.
Steven:
Out. I've been blown away by these because I I've been at M9 fan for I I might. I'm sitting here in what we call the bait cave on the podcast. Right, you know.
Speaker 8
So.
Steven:
Is it is full of three generations of Muskie baits and plenty of M Nines and all this stuff for you. That that bait is is tolerant to a beating, you know 4 miles an hour. It takes it, you know, ticking and clicking it takes it where I didn't realize. And I'm kind of blown away that, that, that that is a solid, but it doesn't react in that nature, you know, because I it is a bait.
Speaker 8
Yes.
Steven:
Designer myself, I'm I. I never even thought about that, that the the intrinsic buoyancy of that air introduced introduced in the resin that's brilliant and especially like you said that through wire thing it reacts just like a hollow Corvette.
Speaker 8
Yeah. Yeah, it's a, but the action on to this fantastic, the rise on both the M9 and don't forget the M7, right? The M7 has caught and moved huge fish. It's got a little bit of a slower rise to it. Mm-hmm. But both of these find their way through and up out of weeds.
Speaker 6
Right.
Speaker 8
It's just a huge triggering mechanism and so we've had, like I said.
Speaker
MHM.
Speaker 8
We now we've. I think we have, I think, yeah. Jay, you got like 20 to all 20 and all 21 colors there and you know, here's the here's the.
Jay:
Yeah, something like that. Yeah. For those. Yeah. Picture that day too. It's, you know, it's what it is, is it's a flat sided crank date with kind of a high profile. So the flat, yeah. Yeah, mental style, but it enormous amount of flash. It's just irresistible looking in the water when you get that thing. Cooking and twitch and yeah, and.
Speaker 3
I I.
Speaker 8
Then one thing you don't see one, there's another piece here that you don't that you don't even see.
Jay:
Is that the M13 is right behind its brother, didn't take my wallet, Dan.
Speaker 8
M9 so like that's gonna.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 8
Yeah, the the O 13, like the M13's, already been prototyped. It's already been, it's already done. It's in, it's in production. This stuff here, though this resin, this flex resin takes a little longer to pour. So we're waiting on those. But Jay, you're gonna have those in maybe before the end of the year, but we'll we'll see here.
Jay:
Yeah, right.
Steven:
Well, you you hearing that you got a bunch. So just talking to me or you know get get in line behind me for.
Jay:
We'll take them. We'll take them.
Steven:
For anything that's white or walleye colored boy, so I promise you.
Jay:
That well, yeah, I mean, check them out. I I've got. I think I've got shorts out on both on YouTube and kick **** and Instagram and stuff like that. You can find them if you, you know, if you Google them. Right. Or you? Search for them right? It's.
Steven:
Yeah, absolutely.
Jay:
Underwater demos you can see these things. You know what they do so. Really cool color patterns. You know, there's some real standard type stuff, you know, you got your perch, your black perch, your fire map.
Jay:
It it's it's this weird.
Jay:
And then you've got some very creative new ones, too. So they're catching peoples eye.
Speaker 8
And we're going to continue, we'll continue to expand those. We'll continue to expand those really those kind of those cutting edge colors. Mm-hmm. As we go, we wanted to make sure that we started out with with good, solid base colors, everybody's familiar with. And then, yeah, like the napalm perch, right. That's.
Jay:
Yeah, that's one of.
Speaker 8
The. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yep.
Jay:
It's super cool.
Steven:
Yeah, super cool. Let let me ask you this. Just sheer curiosity and and and not trying to put you unspotted in any regard, right. I've seen it with, you know other flat sided crank baits or baits that have a small air capacity. Especially being a Southerner, if you can't tell from an accident. But. You know, I might spend the summers up in in the North Woods in Canada, you know, spring and all this stuff. It gets warm and. You'll see these small. Flat body crank baits that they they seem to expand is that new resin. Is that more heat tolerant? I'm just sheerly.
Speaker 8
Curious. Ohh yeah. So like when you used to leave the old dates like on the dashboard or you leave like a clear box like in your front seat of your truck, right? And everything comes in and it's works.
Steven:
They get a tumor the size of a golf ball.
Speaker 8
That's that is the drawback for what ADS. Plastic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's part of that. It's part of that. That's kind of got a low, a low melting point, if you will. And it's it's it's I guess it's subject to distortion where I don't think that the.
Speaker 6
- Hmm.
Speaker 8
Present you know the the.
Steven:
Tolerance is gonna be way higher.
Speaker 8
Yeah, the flex resin doesn't seem to have that sort of a problem now. It's a good question. I haven't really put it through the test right, like, I mean we haven't. Yeah, we haven't laid this thing out like, I don't know, we had him laying them all we. Had him laying. On the deck, on one of our trips this year, and I didn't have any problems with them, but laying on the deck. Throw it in your truck today for a a couple days or different story, but I don't think it's going to be any problems with it. I know that this stuff is it's high temperature already.
Jay:
I want.
Steven:
That's what. That's what the reason I asked is is not like I said, not to put you on the spot. But like you know, I've seen. It with whether it be my bait living livers tighten or you know, depth rate or shallow Raiders of Joe. You're the app with us or whatever. You know, there's kind of that caveat of buddy. You leave that thing laying in the August Sun. Sorry, however.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
It always seemed like the thinner the body, obviously Eric expands, right? So we have expansion. We have the expansion of the molecules inside the the in the.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
Actual plastics itself, but if there's really not the if the air in the density when you're saying a resin is so tight, where's it going to go and and resin is such a higher temperature process?
Speaker 8
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really. Yeah, that's right. And and when you and here's the other thing too, is part of the problem with that old school style mentality? Yeah. Of the two piece body. Yeah. It's it's kind of like sonically welded together or it's glued together. And with that process it's it's not. It's not a. It's not a quality process. You don't have a full you can't guarantee.
Steven:
Absolutely.
Speaker 8
The you can't guarantee a solid steam all the way around, so as soon as that air starts to expand, it's just looking for the the path of least resistance and it and it finds it and it.
Steven:
Expect. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 8
Goes that's right.
Steven:
That I've blown away. I didn't. I didn't realize that. But it's phenomenal. And especially for you know, my brain spinning now. But you take the M7 or the.
Jay:
Makes sense?
Steven:
M9 or? Trust me, when the M13 comes out, I'm going to torture it, which is making contacts with rocks on Eagle Lake, making contact with rocks on Wabigoon. You're not worried?
Speaker 8
Steve, how much would you say that your?
Steven:
Mind is spinning. You got me.
Jay:
He's getting excited. I.
Steven:
Can tell how? Dude, they're Jay. He's starting to drool. Yeah, I'm starting. The problem is this. That's the southern thing. That's all you know. Do you know why we drill? It's the gaps in our teeth. It lets it out.
Jay:
It is.
Speaker 8
Summer summer teeth.
Steven:
This summer too, summer there summer going myself and.
Speaker
You know.
Jay:
My fan, you know, a lot of people for, for, for somebody that's never walked into the muskie shop. Up and walk down. I don't know. What do you want to call it? Aisle 2 and.
Steven:
Jay:
Singers, it seems. Speaking something just because I don't know off the top of my head, what do we carry 1314 different cocktail models, 30 colors deep of each or something? I mean, it's you have a massive lineup not to change.
Speaker 8
Yeah. Yeah, it's like.
Jay:
Curious here, but I was just thinking. I mean, that's your your bread and butter. Anyone that's ever heard of Spanky Bates knows that you could describe better for me. But they're heavy duty, heavy blade. Innovative, I would say double blades are probably your Forte as well. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's where it all started for us.
Speaker 8
Right. I mean our.
Jay:
Our that was that was the true beginning was double bladed flashable.
Speaker 8
Beginning was was top. It was right. Yeah. Tidy was top order bats in 2005 and then then it turned into a time vice. You know, advice on the dining room table, which we trashed like 18 years ago and yeah, but we we said that, you know, at the end. Of the day. You know, I'm a trade guy and there's a lot of trades guys in. This industry and.
Speaker 6
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 8
Everybody wants a quality product for the right price and I always said, you know, like half the base, we could make it better, we could make them better.
Steven:
Better.
Speaker 8
Quickly. Stronger. So that's what we did, right? We plugged in the the the .72 wire with with, with extra tempo on it. So it's got a lot more backbone. It's a lot sturdier. And of course, every part that we ever put on that on that wire shaft. It was all custom. It's all custom made in the beginning we were drilling stuff out. Yeah. You know there is.
Steven:
Can't go by those beads, yeah.
Speaker 8
Yeah, I was way speeds. I mean every single thing. But then, but then every, every place we go, you know, it was, you know, I'm I'm a research guy too, right? And, you know, that was my. I did earned for 18 years in food industry and part of the process is continuous improvement always make it better. Make it stronger and that's what we did cause so we tie on a lockdown collar where the thread locks down into that collar. The glue, the proxy glue hardens up real hard in there. So you know the thread coming out. It's not cold, it's not tight on the spring right where it's like on the surface it can be.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 8
Cut. Of course, yes, that wire is is the claim to fame, but then we all of our blades are the. Old 40 blades and.
Steven:
Dan, let me ask you this and and.
Speaker 8
That's.
Jay:
And that why are 07?
Steven:
Two, that's heavy.
Jay:
The. The industry norm is really 051. So you can you know. Right. Yeah, right. I.
Speaker 8
Mean and that's the thing, right guys? Are guys spend money at musky baits? And let's face it, you know things are getting cheaper. Plus excise tax is always on our back. You know, like you, you gotta find a way to make this thing better, stronger and and reasonable and and people want a strong faith that.
Steven:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 8
Lasts and you. Already you like. You guys are bringing Bates and they call like 16. Hey, Shawna, there's nothing left. And like, can you rebuild this? Like. Really do want you just.
Steven:
Hang that up. Hang her up, do you, Dan? Let me.
Speaker 8
Damn. Oh man. Like there comes the time, you know. But the water is still good. Why aren't you? You know? And. And the Blazers still there. And that's the thing that we always thought too. Right. The the harmonics of the bait. It's all about the blades.
Steven:
Then let me ask you this. The wire is still good.
Speaker 8
And if you if you take. A thin blade and. You bend that up. You you change the harmonics of that beat.
Steven:
Forever. Dan, let me ask you something. I gotta pick your brain. Right cause and Jake can attest. I've been a a Spanky fan for a long time. We've talked about him a ton on the podcast. We don't have a lot of guests and that's just cause we rent, get on here and. All right, couple questions.
Speaker 8
Yes, all right.
Steven:
You said something about harmonics. I've I'm already asking, but there's there's two things one to know. So. Density means vibrations, right? So the the, the denser the shaft, right, the more harmonic resonance you would have. You already beat me to that secondly. Where the wire weighs more the the the blades are thicker. The bait intrinsically weighs more than your typical bucktail. Do you intend to? That? Intend that in the design process where you're going to get lower, tighter to cover and structure where more muskies are holding or was that a byproduct? Of a beefed up design.
Speaker 8
Good. Well, I mean on on you know, at the end of the day it's it's a, it's a little bit heavier with Bucktail. We do make multiple versions you know like well we never really get into that. We've always just settled on the best version. That's that's possible where the bait runs like people want to add a lot of weight to bait. So say yeah, I really want this heavy, but then the the rear. You know, the rear end of the bait runs low. So it's like riding dirty that doesn't.
Steven:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. Up, like a weird angle. Yeah.
Speaker 8
Look very good. Yeah. So that's not good either. And then if you start getting this thing kind of whacked out of balance and you don't put the weight in the spaces in the right place.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Speaker 8
Umm you have some imbalance issues when you go to cast it. Castability is important. Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time you can't get it too lightweight because the flash. It doesn't absorb water like feathers and hair, so when you pull those out of the water, they're already heavy with water and they've got a little bit of a little bit of weight for the, you know, to load your rod, they with the tinsel, it's not there. So you gotta make sure you got the right amount of weight, the castability that it rides even in the water. So there's there's balance in there. You know what I mean?
Steven:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it seemed like I said, the intrinsic nature of these bats are, you know, as a as a full time guy and things of this nature, it's like. You know, throw it out. Turn the handle monkey. You know. But it seems that you get an extra foot. You get that extra distance that breaks the level of light penetration that that converts more fish, at least in my mind, just from the basic build of the Bay, you know, because like at the 88 Spanky or the 8-9 is kind of bread and butter for me most of the time. There you go. You can't mess that up. You just can't. You know it it it anybody could catch a fish on that thing, you know where I think a.
Speaker 8
Yeah. The other, the other piece that we really pride ourselves into is that the blades. So like the blade design, right? Like we we're at the point now where we design our own blades, the cop, the pitch, all of these pieces. Yeah. All of these pieces make make a difference.
Steven:
Lot.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
The cavitation, yes.
Speaker 8
What? Comes to the blades starting on a retreat and and a lot of people. A lot of people will buy bats and then it's like they gotta snap on and they gotta jerk them to get those blades going. You have that? And plus. Plus underneath, the club says you've got a nylon wear washer, which also ensures smooth hold on.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 8
Which also which also you know ensures a. Smooth, smooth rotation of the clauses and start up every time. So a lot of great factors that go into this pay and then of course the cost on this too, right? Like you think a bait that's gonna be that beefy and that heavy is gonna cost you. Ohh so much more for quality but the reality is we we keep it we keep it tight we do a good job sourcing. And we do a good job working with our vendors like Jay to keep this thing, you know, realistic.
Steven:
Yeah, it it. It's spot on you. You'll hear no complaints from me on on that front and then. Yeah, something you guys did in it. I was interested in. You have a series of rods now at the Muskie shop and obviously you guys have them in other places. But what was kind of the design process there because there's something I noticed which was like a non insert I.
Speaker 8
Right. Yeah, yeah. So that's it. Yeah, we we did rods. We did rods. Ohh boy. I think we did rods and 13, 2013, 2015. And one of the reasons we got all the rods just cause I couldn't get the quality. Mm-hmm. It just. I just couldn't get the quality components.
Speaker 6
Hmm.
Speaker 8
That we wanted to put on these rods and we talk about the Spanky Bates name. It just wasn't representative of of the quality standard that that, that we want. You know that we're known for. Yeah. So we stopped making the rods. And then about about 2 1/2 years ago, I saw that they started to make this solid stainless eyelet with no insert and to me. That was the world and at the same time, the other piece was that the telescoping rods were coming out right back in the day and there was problems when that was kind of starting. There was just different issues with that whole mechanism. So we shared away from it. So now, Fast forward, we've got very good telescopic, you know, maneuvering and and the mechanism itself is very, very solid. And then we put these islets on without the inserts, I can't tell you how many. Trips have been. Ruined because you know, especially in the fall where a guy with a. Size 12 foot.
Jay:
Ohh yeah. Yep. Yes Sir.
Speaker 8
Steps on an eyelid or or worse. I mean it's one thing to see an eyelet that's broken. You say? Alright, man, that I was broken, right? That's bad. But it's almost worse when somebody steps at her. Like. One of the little eyelets cracks and you don't see it.
Steven:
Mm-hmm. Now have to brace it.
Speaker 8
And then when when that happened? Yeah. Then you end up losing a lure. A lure, a leader and then or a fish. And then.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8
It's even worse.
Speaker
Yep.
Steven:
Exactly. Yeah, I I saw that. Actually, I I think they showed up right before the Muskie shot bash. Right. And I we're we're in, in the garage there. When when we're getting set up for the bash and I saw this and went brilliant it it alleviates the problem because in muskie fishing right now it's like OK we can cast. 6080 A 120 a bomb cast with musculus. You know this? Not this not surf casting. Everybody right? That's right. And and and and and at a certain point that Rod is going to translate enough feeling to you you know it's working this is not funny.
Speaker 8
That's right.
Steven:
Yes. And I'm going. Why are we doing this? Why are we? Why are we copying bass fish? We need ceramic inserts because no, we don't. We don't need that. That I find that to be brilliant. Because you go. It alleviates a problem first and foremost, and it alleviates potential lossage, you know, because it lossage.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 1
No.
Steven:
Making it worse here, but a potential loss because it it a certain point you go anything that I can, you know, minimize or mitigate anything that could cost me a fish or cause mortality of fish is a is a net win in my mind. I thought that was pretty. Go in. You know the other thing that we we we we talked about as far as the trolling application and and obviously I'm a fan boy here was the whiplash. Right, because you've got this this big spinner bait. And when I we don't talk about trolling Bucktails as much as I talk about trolling spinner baits what was.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
Kind of thought process there is. That in your brain. You know, obviously this is your baby. Is this a casting application where you were thinking trolling more or what? What was kind of the thought process there?
Speaker 8
Well, you know every everything for me. So I'm a caster and you know I. But I always say that, you know, we've got a huge foul like we we've had a great following on on Lake Saint Claire for so long.
Steven:
Uh-huh.
Speaker 8
Those guys, those guys are brutal on muscularis, right? They put them to the test. In fact, that's where the wear part was developed. That little nylon washer was developed on Saint Clair. Cause these guys are running.
Speaker 6
Absolutely.
Speaker 8
Pays 16 hours a day nonstop and it's wearing through. So. So we always gotta make sure that we're making things that are castable and they're also trouble. You know, there's some, you know, we do want to get into a situation where we have to create 2 lines. You have to buy 2 lanes, 2, two different dates if you want to cast the troll. All the quality features.
Speaker 6
Right, yeah.
Speaker 8
The one do with it what? You like, right? And when when we developed this bait, the first one was the whiplash with the six skirts and the big blade, the big Willow, I think you have options on that. You've got the Willow, the mag, the mag, Willow. You got the mag. 10, You got the mag, Indy.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah, it comes.
Speaker 8
With all of them, it comes with, yeah. So that that was developed for casting. That's how we first started it and then we tuned it for trolling. Yeah. And so that's just a big that's just a big fish bait. Now, people will say, well, it's kind of heavy, you know, comes in under. I think it's under half a pound. But well, listen, guys are throwing pounder of whatever out there.
Jay:
This is nothing more to stroll now to try profile. Yeah. I mean, what? You know, there's a lack of giant profile spinners out there, you know, to be honest with you, the biggest innervates are just heavier of the same frame size. This is truly giant.
Speaker 8
And.
Speaker 6
Why? Right, right.
Jay:
Yeah.
Speaker 8
And then I mean, of course off of that though. So then then we developed the Whiplash Junior, which is lighter, it's 3 skirts because, let's be honest, let's be honest, boys, we got we have multiple, we have multiple. I don't see demographics, but generations like fishing in this industry, right, you got like I said, I was up. I was up north with a couple.
Speaker 3
Fisheries well.
Speaker 8
Couple guys in their 20s, then these these guys can throw anything, it doesn't matter. And then you know, then I go up with, I go up to the older guys, closer to my age. Right. Like second-half of their life, right. And listen, throwing big, heavy duty stuff is is.
Speaker 6
Oh yeah.
Steven:
All day, yeah.
Speaker 8
It's not gonna be. She's not gonna be comprehensible for these guys all day, right?
Steven:
Account realistic, yeah.
Speaker 8
So you may you may get. By throwing that for a few hours when your hand gets tired, the downsize, and that's why we made the three, you know, the the whiplash Junior, because that's more reasonable base to throw all all day long. And I mean we see this throughout all the bait lines, right, I mean Jay? You know it too, right? I mean somebody, you know, somebody throwing. The M9. And now the M Nines are not hard to throw in Twitch. Those are easy. But yeah, start talking about double 10 spinner baits. Yeah, 10 nines. Big angry. Those get a little tougher, but then you start getting down in the like you talked about the 8-9, the eights, the little angries guys really can throw those all day and that's what it's part is you got.
Steven:
To be able to stay in the game, I I think a lot of it too though is, you know, you know, we got big fish down here in Tennessee and I spent all the summers up in Wisconsin, Kansas, Big Fish, big fish.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
Big fish, right you go. You know, weird places in southern Indiana or or, you know, certain places in Wisconsin or Iowa. Shad base, where a big profile is not necessarily the ticket, so it always makes sense. I you know, I think a lot of it. Like you said, the physicality, but sometimes it's important to not have. A 15 inch offering. Everywhere you go, you know, which is I think is super relevant you.
Speaker 6
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Steven:
Know. Which is nice. I would. I would if I ever throw a pounder again. I I will. Here in a few months. I promise you that. But you just go. Oh my lower back.
Jay:
You can get.
Steven:
You can get it done, except for that, the more pounders you throw it. I always thought each cast just takes about 5 minutes off your life like a cigarette, right? You're like, oh, well, that I'll want that 5 minutes back on my deathbed. So I'm so glad you're on the show. It's so enlightening. To hear about the product lineup, is there anything kind of brewing for 2025? You guys have been doing a lot of innovation, you know.
Speaker 8
Me and I want to touch on Steve. Listen, I don't want to cut you off, but I want to touch on a point this late. We were talking about the pounders and we get this question a lot and I'm sure, Jay, you guys get. Of course I mean.
Steven:
No, you're great, baby.
Speaker 8
This at the shop all the time. A lot of people ask me about our lives. And they talk about big rubber and I. Tell. Them. Listen, this this rod is not design. And to throw big rubber, this rod, these rods, these rods are designed. They're they're designed and built to bit to throw Bucktails whether it's, yeah. Blade runners. Right, the Blade Runner. Whether it's big Bucktails or small Bucktails. And of course like the the the wheel handles. Right. And people ask me about the wheel.
Speaker 6
MHM.
Jay:
Blade runners.
Jay:
Oh.
Speaker 8
Handles that revolution wheel handle with that forage power grip is absolutely a lifesaver and we we sold through that first batch. In like, no time and we've got absolutely phenomenal reports back on these lots that guys really like them. So that's.
Jay:
A big thing and.
Speaker 8
And but I do want to be clear though, it's not a big rubber rod like, right? It's a it's a heavy fast action rod and like can you get away throwing a smaller like? A smaller tube. On it, of course. Or a smaller. Schedule. Of course you could. And my boy should be smiling cause I'm pumping their tires, but at this at the same time, as you know, don't get into the heavy stuff with it. Cause of course just not built for that. And you know what the what the rod makers that sell that stuff and build those rods for those you're going to have to go to those guys for that kind of a lot.
Steven:
Right. Yeah, yeah, it it. It's everything's applicational based. That that's one thing I did notice about your series rods, which was. Very quite a bit of flex kind of past the third islet, right, which which translate vibration better, which is, I mean, you know, and in no way since her form, I think what what you're saying so eloquently is is, you know, they didn't. They have not said, hey, these are meant for everything. These are meant to throw Bucktails and throw them very well. Because I think a lot that's that's missed when you're throwing a bucktail. If you you know if you're a multi rod guy, is that extra flex for distance and sensitivity. I think it's super.
Speaker 8
Yeah, let's not forget the figure 8:00. We we it's very important that the, you know, you get a lot of fish up on the Figure 8 if you're good on the Figure 8 and you can. Really put a. Lot more fish in the boat, but it's important that you rod matches what you can do. I see guys fishing out of a little low profile boat with 10 foot rods and they're figure eights. The figures are so big and they're not precise and they can't do it.
Steven:
They can't do it, yeah.
Speaker 8
And it's like, why would you throw a rod like? Well, now I can. I can cast this almost a foot. Sealed. Yeah, I said. That's great. But we're like, we're like 30. Feet off the edge of the structure that we're. Fishing.
Steven:
Right. Are you are you trying to get follows? Yeah.
Speaker 8
So that's like overkill? Yeah. Let me cut 3 feet off the back end of that thing and let me show you how to figure. Eight, I mean, it's so yeah.
Jay:
If you don't convince Steve Allen.
Speaker 8
For sure. Yeah. I mean it's it's important. So I see too many guys who rode long that like the the rods are too long for the Figure 8. And of course, now I say that. And I fish out of a little 1 Alaskan and then I'm in the front of those axes. And now I gotta have multiple length rocks just to match those boats. Cause it's it's. A huge difference. You know that that's important. Piece too.
Steven:
That's a huge. You know, you're one of the few people we ever heard on that pointed out, me and Jay said all the time where whether it be like a musky shop shield rod. Or Saint Croix, or Spanky Road, or whatever. We always tell people you've got to match the right to your physical stature and the boat you're fishing out of. That's it. You know where it it's a combination of both, because if you're in a remember the old school lung ties. If you're in the nose, you're about 9 feet off the water. Some days, you know, you felt like you're just just just way hovering above where you've got to have the appropriate rod length for the for the boat you're fishing out of in, in physical stature, cause like you said, sometimes you get too long. Fraud and you've got you've lacked control. If you're not of a of a tall physical stature, it's it's just so. Thought on what? What else would you say is sort of coming in the in the works right now with with what's doing in your head for 2025?
Jay:
Well, Tom and I mentioned to you, Dan, the other day about that secret new, I didn't. I know Tom talks to you more than I do. But you know we were trying to develop something together. So that's what that's fun.
Speaker 8
Yeah, I think, yeah. So we've got, I know, I know we've got, we've got something that works here with the shop that we're going to do for you guys and it looks like it's pretty positive. We'll know a little bit more this week, but then I think the first part of next year we're definitely going to be releasing. We have a new bait that's coming out. It's going to be a whole new line for us.
Speaker 1
Cool.
Speaker 8
I can't say anything yet cool and but then next year we're going to be probably taking another bid that is a complete off the wall. If I can get this to work, it's a it's a, it's a completely different style bait and that's at the end of the day. That's the one piece that we're we're really trying to push and we've been working On this date. For over almost two years now, so we're we're hoping that we can get us some final stages with that next year, but it it takes, it takes a lot on this one. So I nothing I can really give you guys right now.
Steven:
Well, they're always trying to innovate. They have. I have in my opinion the best in line Bucktails in the game. Spanky Bates we we've talked about the ton. Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show. Me and Jay will have to have you on again here real soon.
Speaker 8
Thank you.
Steven:
And much appreciated, Sir.
Speaker 8
Have a great night. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1
You pay for the whole seat, but the only deal.
Steven:
You pay for the whole seed, but you win me there. Yeah. Muskie crossed 93.
Jay:
Muskie.
Speaker
How about that?
Steven:
Dan Ski Digger versus Dan Moe.
Speaker 1
What's ohh man? That was.
Steven:
Great. That was fantastic. He he definitely knows the product line. Super informed obviously knows Muskie fishing obviously makes a. Hell of a. Bait. No complaints.
Jay:
Well, there's two it in in plural form. That is what I say it was like. What do you got, 13 or 14? Then I I went back and I counted. I think there's 16 different spinners that we carry from Spanky baits. Plus the rod line and the new crank baits. He's got all out and he was talking in depth about the the new M9 pros and the M.
Speaker 3
Plurality.
Steven:
As far as you can.
Jay:
Seven pros. Cool stuff. Listen, he had me at.
Steven:
M13.
Jay:
Yeah, I know he did.
Steven:
That was he. He knew he did. He was like, oh, I got this guy. I got him. Got him. Headshot. He's like, you know, like there's very, very few times where I'm like, you know.
Jay:
This is almost done. That's cool. I can't wait. To see him.
Steven:
Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. You know I love. I love love, 13 inch grandmas, those are. They're, you know, you'll see the big Jags. Whatever. They're too fat for that size of a bait, in my opinion. And and the tightness of that obviously is a huge vibration, but the hook up ratio, whatever I don't need. I say no more. You know what I'm saying? Moving on it. It just checks all the boxes. So. Jay, we've covered. Herbeck. The lack we we've. Talked about why? Why toboggans have little pom poms on the top? We've done it.
Jay:
All that's true. I forgot about.
Steven:
That, you know it's a. Hopefully, hopefully the listeners have they're going. This is not what I TuneIn for.
Jay:
Well, covering her back is easy. It's a.
Steven:
Small target. It's small target, big herbeck, little herbeck. You know it. Anyway, Jaybird, say Evita. Zane.
Speaker 1
I just made him mad. Yep.
Jay:
Thanks everybody night.
Speaker 1
Later. What have you done? Google must see only one. The little. Swimming, fire. Yourselfie little musky. What's the you want? Little Musk Hill station? Hi, Steve. For a life of chill. Nice day. What is it you wish? What color? Casting. For so. Long. Nice day. It's nice to meet you.