Musky 360 Podcast Episode 252: New Magnus Swimbait User Q+A
Transcript
Steven:
All right, folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast. Steve only mate Oy oy. Jay. You're solid.
Jay:
Valani doing. Doing great. Yeah. Yeah. Chilling here. Yeah. Beautiful Monday nights, is it?
Steven:
Well. Chilling and yeah, sorry I was traveling because it just never ends for me. I.
Jay:
No, I'm not. Not literally chilling. Yeah, it's it was another extremely warm day. It was.
Steven:
Now is it hot?
Jay:
Like mid 80s today, can you?
Steven:
Believe that, yeah. We have the same weather right now and I'm so freaking sick of it. Covered in sunscreen yet again, I have just. And I'm tired of it. I've like, just feeling greasy. You know? It's like, how many? Yeah, every day hosing down with sunscreen and you're like,
Steven:
Uh.
Speaker 3
And.
Steven:
Goodness, I'll tell you what's crazy, though, is like Canada. This year was very, very, very low on bugs.
Jay:
Right. Yeah, yeah. Here too.
Steven:
Yeah. And then like, I'm getting blown up now, are they picking up up there at all because? Like. Today I got an isolated I am a bug bite after this evening.
Jay:
No. There was a little bit Sunday, but I went out a little. Bit yesterday. No, nothing really. Yeah. We're we're past that. You know, we've had some cool nights and stuff and whatever they're they're more or less done.
Steven:
Yeah. What are you gonna do? It's it's. It's it's. It doesn't feel like fall, Jack. It doesn't feel like fall. We talked about that last week, but we have. Some exciting things to talk about first and foremost. Hmm. I teased him. I talked about them. They are finally showing up this week, the Livingston levers cracking paddle tail and GRUB tail. So, let's talk about this for a minute. Why? What? What did you do here, Steve? What have.
Speaker 3
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
You done what is going on? So.
Steven:
Do tell, do tell. Please do.
Steven:
So, we have the crack and obviously which is your your vertical jigging, popping tube ask kind of jump bait? Right. Last year, actually I was in Canada.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven:
Got it. Rain out bored sitting there looking at baits. I have the original cracking prototype, the one the white one within all the videos and everything we're we're first coming out with that thing. And I'm just sitting there. It's like, man, there's so much stuff we could do because there was a bait back in the day. Remember, phantom hard heads, Jay.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
Do you know that that's kind of a cool bait and and and when with Todd was doing, I mean that?
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Was hard thing to get on.
Steven:
What if?
Steven:
On the crack in it and my brain started going nutty. And 1/2 and 1/2 some stuff around to make some things happen. And Long story short, took it to the water. And went oh. Goodness, because one would think we're way to crack and falls off vertically that how is it going to make a good RIP bait or a swim bait? Well. First and foremost, end up hitting this thing with a giant paddle tail. That's kind of a nod to tip of the hat. Give credit where credits due reminds me of the Phantom hard head, which is like a bull doggy Medusa. Pull Paul's back. Right. So first and foremost, the next move is doing a paddle tail so the paddle tail on the back of this bait. He's going to put a video out here very shortly. You're going to be kind of blown away by what the cracking looks like when it's. A paddle toe. Yep, it's a round body, so the cracking body is round. So this is like a round belly or like the action of what you get of a hollow swim, but very loping, very rolly nature to the bottom of it. And the big swag and and I love swim baits.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
And So what we did on the crack and paddle tail, the actual paddles are bigger and badder than about anything you can get. So it's a big paddle tail. So you're going to have a lot of action. They pop right in the back of your bait, which is. Cool. So if you. Have a cracking, you know, remove the back hook. Slide this bad boy on and the way we design them. Is there's like a a guide for the wire. It's going to line up perfectly and the bait won't, you know, have any problems locking on to it again with your cracking glue your skirts on little bit of heat. So it goes a long way. And with these, you can just quickly go, hey man, let's try paddletail thing. Take the skirt off, baby bam. Something Steve Herbeck and I have been playing with is, is. And this is like, if you really want to just experiment with different stuff to save the skirts instead of doing them really small little zip tie, you could use that to snug it up. You. Know what I'm saying?
Jay:
That's true, yeah.
Steven:
And and if you don't want to commit to one if you're actually switching things out today or you only have one crack and available. So this takes like your walleye crack and your midnight crack in any of these. And now you have two other options to get more out of that bait. Because when when that kind of that upward popping 2 beach, bang, Bang Bang, things working, it's working like crazy, but if they're on swim baits, wow, you can get. Trust me, you're gonna see this this demo video on this here. Shortly go whoa. You've got two other options. Again, what's cool about it is the versatile waiting. So you already you already have the versatility of the cracking waiting right, mid, shallow, deep everywhere in between. Now you can do that with a swim Bay and you can do that with this this pool pause. You know, like I said, not a tip of the hat to say, like, a phantom hard head or or like a bull doggy Medusa RIP action, but it's got the big tail. It's not like a big whale tail tail, but it's like your big grub tail, where both of them you need a straight retrieve. But that grub looks wicked on the fall. It's just got a ton of motion to. But Jay, you've played with him. What are you saying?
Steven:
Jay:
Through him this morning finally had enough time to get out there with Tom and we did some we did some B roll shots underwater, shots for the video, and that video that you're referring to going to try to put that out. Tomorrow, Tuesday. So look for that. We should have the product in hand. By the end of the week, so there's a sign up. It's on the top of the musky shop website. We've got the three new Livingston things, the Livingston paddle tail, Curly tail. Sign up. We don't know how fast they're going to go, but you know, there's a limited number of these. They're inexpensive. Few, they're 1099.
Steven:
That's what you gotta say. Hey. Hey, listen. Holler at your boy. When we did this, it's like you've already.
Jay:
For a 2 tab. Got. They're so cheap.
Speaker 3
Why?
Steven:
I fought tooth and nail to keep them affordable. So you're getting two in a pack for 10 bucks. Right, 10 bucks. You got 2 paddle tails. 10 bucks. You got 2 curly tails. And what we end up doing. It's four colors. So you just have, you know, black, orange, chartreuse white, which is going to kind of pair up with basically everything you got, right. So you could do, like, a a walleye white tail. Or you could do a walleye chartreuse tail or. Mix it up, sort of like with your crackers. Anywhere where you can create your own color combinations there. That opens up Pandora's box at the pricing. Now, Jay. Yeah, don't you cut me off on this, but drum roll, please. First pictures of my new bait. The Livingston lures. Magnets are up on the muskie shop for you to check out. So just put it up the other day.
Speaker 3
Hmm.
Steven:
Hit.
Steven:
This is a straight paddletail bait right? So I really got into it. I was playing with the crack and stuff, which is just killer and you're going to love it and it's going to take your cracking fishing crazy as much time. And actually, I leave goodness. What, next week for hungry. You know, I've been been spending some time in old Europa. I think is how they pronounce it, Jay. Europa is that.
Jay:
That they do some do some.
Steven:
Do some no. On swim baits, right? Not that I have a super love affair with him where it's like non-stop, but definitely this is a dynamic. Bait class right now, especially when you're targeting big pipe to you. That for some, it's like I've said it before in the podcast like Swim baits to European anger or angler. Or like Bucktails to your average muskie angler, that's what. That's your baseline. That's where you start, right? So if they're not eating, you just throw swim base. That's just the the the main play.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven:
Started delving into it and it's like anytime I can make something that I think stands head and shoulders above the rest. Of. Bait classes. I'm going to do it so in the same fashion. Of like the hybrid variation where you have a hard head and a soft body, the magnets the swim bait has a hard head with yet again and you're welcome adjustable weights so you don't need to buy a mid and a standard swim day to get that action right. You can have. You don't have to buy. A chalet swim bait in one color and then a deep swim bait or a standard. You know, I'm saying you don't have to modify it out. Take the freaking weight out the same weights that work with your Titans and work with your krakens works with the mage. So you've got the standard weight that comes in. It is 28 grams. If you've got the other weight kit stuff, you can go to 7 grams, 14 if you can dial this thing in. So you've got the action and the running depth dialed in for winter, spring, summer, all all points in between, right? If I'm fishing like when the when the Netherlands or like going hungry here or. Something like that. Fishing some of these different waters, they're way deeper. You know you're fishing some, some big, big fiords. Not really, but you're fishing deep water and and stuff that connects to actually brackish water and ocean and bubble bubble. You got to get stuff down. So this is. Easy to do where you just like not hanging a bunch of weights off a bait and and and what always happens. I love modifying baits and there's so many cool things you do about modifications however. With this, it's already accounted into the action, so you're never gonna mess up the action of the bait because it's designed to work with all the different weights available. So for me, guiding and fishing.
Steven:
It's.
Steven:
All the time, you know. Let's say we're in a shallow swim bait bite, Jay. Right. They're on chalet. Swim bikes. Yeah. OK, now I need to have 3 or 4 chalet swim baits available for me and my party or the buddy I'm fishing with. Whatever, right? And I gotta dial them all in. And they, you know, the shallow ones are shallow. Well, with the magnets, you have no weight. You can go 7 grams. You can get 14 grams and get 21 grams. You can get 28 grams. You can stack it so you can tailor your presentation at any given moment instead of having a shallow in the standard version. Of a swim bag. You got anything you want? So that's helped me and I've had this thing now for a little over a year when we're playing with Bates and I'm designing a bait. It gets tested. Took this thing to the nether ones.
Steven:
Crushed. Crushed.
Steven:
On Big Pike gave 1 to one of our buddies over there. Like we got some of the more samples back. The prototype stuff, he just smacked some more, got it more dialed in, took this thing to Canada and just freaking murdered Jay. Big Pike and muskies. And so it has been just just stellar on that front for me. Where?
Jay:
I know.
Steven:
I know like my confidence level on this thing is just tweaked out and geeked out, like I had an all black one in Canada and it was the only only one I had. It was like all black and I'm throwing it in the middle of the day and I've got video was like, the thing lands turned the handle a few times and like 1 launches out, I missed the hook set and another one comes and hammers it. I mean.
Jay:
It's all black, OK.
Steven:
Again, was it the bait? I don't know. But it's freaking awesome. You. You felt pretty good. Like. Yeah, they like that, you know? But. Like I said, if you like swim baits, this is the trick so so you have the hard head section with the removable weights and your first hook is attached to the hard head. What do they do with swim baits, Jay? They head shoot them just like my thought process on the crack and. You're gonna get hook up your hookup. Ratio goes through the roof because they're hitting a. Hard head right? In this bait there is a double looped around through wire, right? So this thing's wire through from the head around blah blah blah molded and this wire comes down the back of the swim bait and it's positioned so this is not going to tail foul or hook head foul. If you've ever fish swim bait something that drives me nuts is like. Two out of three casts are tail fouling and things of this nature, so that's been taken into account. What's cool about this bait yet again, hard head replaceable. Tail sections with the wire through. All you have to do is you take the back hook off. You undo it if you want to glue it, glue it. If you want to feed it on there, whatever the heck you want to do. That the head and the bodies match up super tight and you have a through wire. Like there's a hole in the tail. That feeds this wire perfectly through the body and it matches up every time. I'm not going to say. What the price is on the replacement tails, but let's revisit all crack and paddle tails 1099, right? We're going to keep these affordable because instead of getting a $30 swim bait that a pipe tears up. You get a hard head and then replace these tails. For way less Jay. So check them out. We got three color samples up there. You got walleye. You got basic ***** perch and you've got waste. Plan. And so I did some fancy painting played with that. I like wasteland. It's freaking mean looking but going to have those three colors. There's going to be a disco shade, black and white, and then obviously the matching tails to go with that. So you can kind of like like you're cracking brew up something that's unique, right. I've played with some of the different combos. It's like taking the walleye head with an all white body or all black body looks cool. Or mix, mix and match. You know I'm. But my goal on this thing has been to make, yet again, an affordable bait that you can fish forever and replace the tails without breaking the bank. And I think I think we hit it. Jay, you you were the first person other than myself to actually throw and play with one. Of these thoughts. You.
Jay:
Think that's the thing I got the. Just to throw the magnets today too, actually. And Tom threw it. OK? Tom's very skeptical with lures, right? Believe it or not, he's very skeptical. We've.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Now he'll he'll buy 1000, tackle bar inside and soon. But you know that's our Tommy.
Jay:
But you know, I mean the guy. Me and Tom have done. On probably 250, you know video demos. You know of lures and he throwing most of the baits while I while I shove that GoPro underwater and try to capture it, you know best we can. And the magnets I'm like, hey hey, try it with a slow steady, you know slow to moderate, steady retrieve and he's bringing that in and I that. You know, since he was drooling a little bit and he's like, oh, yeah, he kind of had that. Ohh. Yeah, here. Yeah. And I'm like doing another pass. Come right at the camera, you know, and the head roll on this thing. You gotta check out the picture on the website because this is.
Steven:
It's.
Jay:
It's not a cracking, OK, you know, this is, say, a cracking with a paddle tail. This is a different presentation. It's a different body silhouette. It's it's, it's you. You can tell by the by the photo that it's a different shape. It's more. How would you say, you know more flat sided and the and the head, the head roll on it is vicious.
Steven:
Inside.
Steven:
Yeah. It's ridiculous.
Jay:
Yeah. And then of course you can. You could do little surges and stop the bait. And you know with, with and you can adjust the weight. So even unweighted it's got a head drop, very slow head drop. So suspending nature to. Which so yeah, as you can tell, I'm pretty excited about that. And you know, as with the the cracking, curling and paddle tail replaced, once we shot all that stuff and you know, like I said, even Tom was thrilled. So you know game.
Steven:
Over baby, if if Mike Mikey likes it, remember that if Mikey likes it. If Tom.
Jay:
Right, yeah. Just substitute what? Tommy likes it. Yeah.
Steven:
Likes it. We're gonna just. No. Tommy likes it. I now I would like I said with the with the magnets. My.
Steven:
Right.
Steven:
Number one thing, good chief. Was head walk because I I I like a lot of swim baits, but if you've ever owned swim baits and you've thrown them and I'm not naming names, throw them out in the water and the paddle tool goes wacky wack wack wack. That's cute. How wonderful.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven:
I want the whole bait to snake and asks in that head roll it looks more alive and I'm telling you that the difference between just like a straight retrieve with with another swim bait where there's no front action, it's just the whack, whack whack of the tail that's great. You add in. A wondering motion left to right in that head, rocking and and walking. Now you're in business. That's that. That's often the difference between getting a follow and then just smoking it. And again, as an angler, at the end of the day, this is what I do for a living and it's fish, fish, fish. I was sick of the same stuff. I've been sick of with diving rise or sick. Of. With, with with you know traditional. You know, tube stuff and. Fun stuff. Inconsistency, good ones and bad ones with this thing. Like I said, you replace the tail you got. You got. You're in the money. You know you're not going. It's not. I promise you the replacement tails are not going to break the bank. And so you know, so he prefers doing that. The other thing. Yeah. And. And I'm telling you just just.
Jay:
Super versatility. Name of the game.
Steven:
This is going to do it to it, I promise you that. So other than that, I'm excited as hell if you can't tell, so check it out. Magnus. There's a sign up there. It's gonna be a while. It's been a while. It's gonna be after the first of year.
Jay:
Yeah, it's a game changer. Yeah, me too.
Steven:
Right. And as you know how it goes with a lot of these bait. They come out and they're gone. Get in the queue. You'll get the alert. When this thing shows up, obviously we'll we'll lead more into that. Jays got a little bit of footage on this. We're going to share with you and all that fun stuff. Other than that, enough with my, with my garbage, Jay. Other things have shown up.
Speaker 3
We got freaking.
Jay:
It's been a busy week.
Steven:
Late in the season and and cool things are happening, you got legend lures.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Fricking the perch. Plow right in time for trawling you.
Jay:
Yeah. Got huge plow bait in. It's been all long time since he made that took a year to get those in. We got Outcast today too, and it's been an equal or more amount of time since we've had those too.
Speaker
The.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
So yeah, if you know what's going on here, woo. I don't. I don't know, man. There's a bunch of. I don't know if it's just colors. There's a bunch. That are going. Yeah, if you're, if you're, if you're a serious trouble, this is. This is something to have in the arsenal. Yeah.
Jay:
There are some new custom colors in the mix and the ledge. Of stuff, some pretty cool ones.
Steven:
Cool stuff. Then you have the Spanky. Baits M9 pro.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
He is taking the grandma M9 and and. Bam. Oh, Wham, oh, here we go. From Spanky, I mean.
Jay:
Yeah, bunch of colors and that.
Steven:
Just came in the the the M9. Those grandmas? Are kind of. Have a colt falling right and and I've got. A pile of. Them it's like one of these baits that I. Like I'm breaking these out on a special occasion. You're just kind of, you know what I'm saying? You're just, you're like, I don't know what I better hold on to this one for, for, for win. For this perfect time. You know, because they they've been impossible. Get your hands on. But obviously they're cranking these things out now, which is cool. They just have a different.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Right.
Steven:
Walk. Wobble to him. Right. And when they're working in it, I've done it where, like let's say you're running 4 grand models and you got one M9 and you, you know, a variety of the old ones and new ones and everywhere in between ones, right? That thing can pull fish up. There's a reason Bates become kind of legendary and worth reviving. Obviously like they're doing here. The M9 is one of them. If you're a serious trouble yet again, you know you've heard a little bit of hype about that. Or drum as it used to be. Way more people like all the time we're talking trying to get. Their. Hands on those and the longer, something's kind of on the market. Off the market, I should say that the the, the less and less and less that's prevalent, but this this is cool. I mean that's something you need to check out for sure. And then. Goodness it, it's like Christmas in is it September? It's September. I feel like I feel like it's October and my soul, they they strike protrude like guppies which are freaking cool. Those are just cool. They've they've.
Jay:
It's it's September, Steve. Yeah.
Steven:
Phenomenal paying jobs.
Jay:
Just took forever to get to.
Steven:
Once again, I've I last year, so I actually wasn't hungry. I was hanging out with Steve from strike pro over in. Japan. Super cool guy. Like I said, that's that's kind of a mom and pop company even. Over there. But they make pretty stuff. Man is their stuff.
Jay:
Pretty and they work too. We, we we did that one. I did a short on that one with Tom today and then Tom was driving the bait. So yeah, I think I put that down somewhere today or.
Steven:
They work with.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jay:
I think I did, but anyway, yeah, they. Do look good. Good. Glad they.
Steven:
Yeah, they're per, they're easy as heck to use replaceable soft tails they've got.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Now the one thing is this.
Steven:
A lot of the guys overlook the boot tail on this deal. You can do a little swim, baby, kind of Rippy deal with these two. And so they come with your kind of your typical ribbon tail and they come with this little boot tail, swim bait tail that you can put on. Well, I I don't know a lot of guys that have ever taken advantage of that. It looks different in the water obviously and it changes the action up like you can kind of like. Surge. Jerk it. Whacking around a little bit more and kind of a RIP bait fashion, which is cool. So it's got that going on. You know, there's that, there's that. Well, dos book.
Steven:
Cool.
Steven:
Tail.
Jay:
What we didn't try the boot tail we we just tried the ribbon tail and we shot that one and it worked great. So I thought, yeah.
Steven:
Well, I mean it's.
Jay:
Now you got me interested. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Cool. It's a cool alternative to.
Steven:
You know your your hell hounds or your your mini tap dancers and stuff.
Jay:
They're they're quite affordable too, really. And look at the price on them, Paul. That's not bad.
Speaker 3
Yeah, dude, 5 bucks. 26 bucks.
Steven:
They look great. No, the paint jobs on her freaking kill her. So anyway. Well, I didn't expect this much.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Cool new gear.
Steven:
This late in the year?
Jay:
Be and. There's more, and there's more coming. We got that sequel 1 next week. Stay tuned for that one, boy.
Speaker 3
Here you go.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Stay tuned, boys. It's gonna be. I'm gonna give go give juicy.
Steven:
We're breaking. Yeah, we finally, we're going to take custody of Super secret super awesome baits. Somebody we know has been working on, which I'm excited about those just for.
Speaker 3
You know, I know. Ohh but yeah. Have a good have a good time for that bite.
Steven:
Now it's cool anyway. Goodness, I need to just shut up. I. Maybe I'll just have. Maybe it's just over sun exposure. Jay, you're an old man. I feel like I'm. I'm.
Jay:
Man fishing all day and talking podcast all night. What? Yeah, well, I was. I was fishing.
Steven:
Today, hey. OK, got one.
Jay:
You said you said you know some water levels were dropping way too quick and you do Plan B today, huh?
Steven:
Ohh dude I'm.
Steven:
Sick of? Crap, dude. Yeah, I think I I don't know where you're at, but.
Steven:
You know.
Steven:
I I think. Everybody could use a smidge of the rain we.
Steven:
Yes.
Jay:
Want a slight drought? No. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You know, and you you passed 40 as a white guy. You just start worrying about your yard. I guess. I don't know when. That's that. It started from him. Like my yard is dying. My yard needs some rain for the yard and. For the feces. Now 1 body of water is on. Heck it look like is it freaking winter pole? You said the same thing though about the river. What's going on?
Jay:
Well, we haven't had any rain and and there's a there's a normal drawdown to to a point, you know, come like early August, they start drawing down Wisconsin River system out by me. And yeah, at 6 1/2 feet down now. So I can't even get out.
Steven:
- There we need to rain at them, heading to little harp on Wednesday the 18th. With warmer temp in the forecast should be look. Should I be looking at deep weed edges during the day and shall the weeds in the morning love the podcast? Jay, what do you think? That's right, that's literally right down the road.
Jay:
What's I mean? I drive by it every day. You know it. Yeah, for.
Steven:
I think we should look at things other than weeds, but.
Jay:
The last week.
Speaker
Ah.
Jay:
We we've been the program absolutely most if not almost every fish I've heard of getting caught since early last week has been and and we've had this very consistent weather like more or less sunny and 80° every day and fairly mild at night. So it's not dropping water temp too much because it's. You know, warming back up with the sun during the day and, you know, weeds are in good shape. But, you know, they're starting to go away. There's some natural blooms on a lot of these lakes. But it's not stopping people from pulling fish out of the weeds. Heard of some extremely shallow 2 feet of water kind of catches. And if you talk shallow weeds all day, you know, and you sit on a major or minor, you're you're probably going to have some action, but that that's been the ticket. I haven't. Heard of anybody? Really doing super well with deeper fish or suspended fish. Even deep weed line fish. It's just been. In the weeds, that's where the active fish have been caught. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You know, I. Hey, man, you know, I I I was saying it doesn't all have to be that, but apparently if that's the bike that's the bike, but keep your eye. Trained on other options. Like he said, you know, a slight downturn or something like that might might push him out. You know, if if the. But if the bite super shallow that's that's that's where you want to start for sure. Anything else like on that like Jay you know it pretty Dang well is is it is there either in a certain side or certain area on that lake that you go OK. It doesn't feel like fall by the counter. It's fall. Obviously this is like an extended it's like an extended late summer essentially.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It really is it, it's it's early fall, though it really is. I mean water temps have cooled down, right? I mean it, it's noticeable and it's a natural progression. I mean you know sunlight is you know the daylight and all that you know it's extremely diminished. You know it's noticeable and you know the animals know that. So they're doing their thing. Length of. You know, there's just a high percentage of active fish, super shallow in the weeds. I mean there is a lot of pan fish, there's a lot of. Going in there right now for that fall thing and.
Steven:
Like that specific like, though with it being right in your neighborhood. I mean again is it is there A, is it manageable to finish the whole thing I've driven by it I haven't finished.
Jay:
Yeah. It and there's a big center bar. I'd start there. That has it was a big strip in the center bar. Big, big arc has the same kind of feature that would be good, good place to start.
Steven:
The.
Jay:
You know, you know, check the weeds and find the best weeds you can, and well, sometimes even the dying weeds. You know, without better. So.
Speaker 3
What do you think?
Steven:
What's what's if you're you're hearing like the? And is it like, you know, little staggers or double eights or what kind of soup is your?
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
I've been hearing a lot of bucktail stuff in general, whether you know a couple of big groups of of guys were in last week and they were all buying the most weedless presentations they could, they were getting a lot of spinner baits. They were getting some of the violent strike stuff that was real because they were seeing fish in 2 feet of water that was last week. And that's, you know what I mean, patterns don't always hold true, but the weather's consistent. And, you know, nothing's changed a lot.
Steven:
Yeah. No, no.
Jay:
So definitely try that. So yeah, a lot of both hills and a lot of swim baits.
Steven:
I mean, that's why these deals, yeah.
Jay:
A lot of. You know, shallow running swim bait, stuff soft plastics of that nature that is not going to have a deep sink or a. Fast sink, right?
Steven:
They can get it over this.
Jay:
Lop. Yeah, get it. Get it right in there and and see what? You can do.
Steven:
Yeah, I mean, you think. About, you know, Steves meat grinders or or like you're saying, violent strike stuff or anything that's going to be in more weedless for sure and that that that situation I. Mean. Yeah, and.
Jay:
Top Waters are working too, but you know, I just haven't been hearing as much on top waters as they have with, you know, spinners and Bucktails and and swim. It's.
Steven:
Heck yeah, Mark had a super successful trip to G Bay and Boated 3 fishing one day, first time ever, plus 3 Pike over 40. Nice 6 meat grinders. Nice thinking about removing the center hook from my 6. It's mangling fish. What's your thoughts? Well, there's two hooks on a Titan for a reason. That third hook on a lot of baits could be problematic. You get too much hook and and you know it's it's. It's just too much. I mean I've seen. I would say the most mangling I've seen from fish, if they've hit it really. Or, you know, big trolling baits where it's like they've headshot it and there's, like, a treble that's the back hook of a Jakes just whacked him in. The eyeball or. You know, yeah.
Jay:
I was just thinking of that.
Steven:
Or or, you know, like with a suit or something of that nature. And you're just, like, freaking too much hook. I get it again. Back to bait design. What does everybody want? That makes them feel confident? More hook. The more hook you know if I I, there's some people. If you could put 17 hooks on a bait they that they would go for it cause they ain't gonna miss.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
But if you look at like your big rubber presentation, they got 2 hooks. The Titan has two hooks to minimize mangling. You know it, it happens and you I've I've again this guy was calling it. Calling strikes both I've I've injured fish on single hooked Bucktails. Right. How'd they hit it? Where do you hook them? So there there's, there's always that element, but less is often more when it comes to conservation. You know, you can always. And this goes for any bait. Let's say it's a 3 hook bait. You can always up your hook sizes and eliminate a middle hook or something of that nature. I I you know, it's like with the cracking. A lot of times that bait has three hooks. It hooks the crap out of them. A lot of mine. I'll run without the middle hook on there, right? If they're head shooting, that's just going to get caught in the net. You know, it's just going to constantly, you know, it'll be stuck on a fish or throwing in the net. So it's not like. Good or bad, it's just whatever your whatever your freaking. Whatever mood you're in, you can remove it or or add, you know, upsize, downsize, whatever you feel is best. Your best course of action. But you know.
Jay:
Yeah, you're a little. You're a little on the whole thing, and I understand that, you know, and it's just like when you start thinking about conservation and it's. Just like the amount of time it takes to you know, safely unhook a fish in the net, you know, a single hook block tail, just a single treble hook or single.
Steven:
I mean the spinner bait. Jamie jam.
Jay:
Pop. It's out. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Steven:
That sun, we're out.
Jay:
Yeah. Grab the fish photo release. You know, and it's just like. You know it. No one. He likes to operate on a fish in the net. Under any temperature, under any water, and you know what I mean and it's.
Steven:
No, I I we had a I had the conversation on the bed a few days ago with the. And it just along these same lines of. He asked me what can I do to speed it up when they swallow a bait and he he mentioned what was it. It was a three hook crank. I can't remember if it's a slant. Whatever, right. Not a big bait, but like a crank bait. You know, like a slammer or crane or whatever. 7 inch or. I said, dude, nothing. I said. You at a certain point, you're gonna hook a fish where you've got 9 points with three travelers, right? There's nine points. And yeah, you got four or five of them dug in. You're you're just you're you're. You're trying to get leverage to. You got to pull this one this way and then pull that one that way. And it's just it messes happen. Right and. You know, if you're consistently running into to fish, they're just clobbering baits. You can do them a service and do yourself a service because it's less stressful. It's quicker, it's easier by by removing a hook. Or maybe you know and take take it from 3:00 to 2:00 or whatever. Right. And I've got plenty of bait over the years where I've done that, where I go. OK, dude, when's the last time I I had a fish hook on the middle hook of a Jake? I can't recall having a muskie hook on the center hook of a Jake in. I don't even really know if I've done it, Jay. Like as far as, that's the primary hooking location.
Steven:
MHM.
Steven:
Right. They either grab the back of the head sheet, the middle one, it's just like. If I'm doing 3 1/2 miles and think of it this way, I think about it and this is this is, I guess, a reasonable way to consider it. So let's take an 8 inch bait, right? And that fish hits the head of the bait. But does not get hooked on the. Front hook, right? It's only 8 inches long. How long until that back hook hits that fish? If it's moving at 3 miles an hour? You see what I'm saying? Like the distance? Well, he's only got that baby has to come forward. X. You know what? 6 inches into 3 miles and you're just going to get him? You see what I'm saying? Like the forward advance of a trolling bait or something of that nature is enough to compensate for a. Missing the front. Right now you don't know if that happened every time, but you got ripped and then he's hooked up. It's so fast, but the way I kind of consider is like the the forward momentum of the debate being retrieved. If he doesn't get one, he'll get the next one. I get it. I've designed baits with three hooks. You know when they're nipping and bopping and weird stuff you. Oh man. But just something to consider. I mean I get 2 hooks. Fine. You know, I'm not going to work a crank bait with one hook. You know, not my cup of tea, but you know, augment flavor to taste. I really like not to get too much on a tangent. I'm kind of obsessed and they're they're pricey with those BKK hooks right now.
Jay:
A lot of. People are.
Steven:
They're bad to the frickin bone, so I'll take and it's again the stock hooks on my crackers are great, right?
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
But I'm kind of on this tip of putting the the five all. Out, which is huge. The five short Shank on the head of my crack and and one on the back and taking off the middle cause now I have like monster hookups. And then, you know, because the way they're eating them right now, for me, they're just head shooting them. I haven't had a hook on the back of a cracking in a hot minute. Right. I would I could confidently run one of those with just a front hook just to go well, he's gone ahead to hit it. I can pretty much guarantee it. I'm digging those on headlocks those BK's. I'm digging them on gliders too to be honest with, there's pretty much not a bait that I don't like them on, but they seem to like really excel. The other thing is this and it and it's. The constant thing we always deal with with the shallow invader, right? Because they I think they've changed their stock hook and again, you know we talked about at one point doing the hook thing, getting at me and Jay Revisited, we will get a hook database going. It's we're waiting on bait makers is waiting for the world to end. It takes forever, but we will press them again. This winter, when everybody kind of slows down to get that hook archive together, but that that Mustad Jay that was on shallow invaders. The short Shank 3 on you know, the BKK is a good replacement for that as well.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Right. That's. Yeah. When it's not there, short Shank because short Shank hooks, there's not many now. But like I said, they're really there's a really good on your phantoms. Really good on your crack. And again, the ones I love and like guys message in the past going. What hook do you use on your bodies? Because I talked about increasing my hook up ratio by going to what?
Jay:
One of the few out there? Yeah. And it's an excellent replacement.
Steven:
Used to be. I don't know if they stopped making them, they're just gone. It was the the crap. Tyrant tackle short Shanks. They used to make a 5-6 and seven short Shanks that were just ridiculous. Not the best quality metal in general, but it gave me an option above what the stock hook was on the body. The BKK's. The fives are big, big, but you know down from that.
Speaker
MMM.
Steven:
Is really good on your Bondy baits and your vertical jigs because now you gotta superbly short. Are superbly sharp. Short Shank hook you know. So if you're thinking about any bait that that operates on a short Shank, that's good. But like I said, it's it's it's with a hook that quality or that kind of like the short Shank with the wide gaps. That's kind of what I'll kind of lean towards when I'm eliminating the hook. You know what I'm saying? Like. Just taking it up a notch and and and make it a little bit bigger, but now those BKK's are kind of they're. They're sharp dude, I have. I have a mark on my wrist still. I got one in Canada. Pretty good right into the the meat of the old pal there.
Speaker 3
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
But good God, they they are sharp out of the pack. Just be watch yourself anyway. Moving on after the rambling fast Bobby. I'm fishing the Muskie opener on Lakewoods in 2025. This is my first time fishing muskies that early in the year was planning on bringing some smaller baits. Booker, you know, tail 500 or mag rattle trap give me recommendations for both a rod and reel for these lighter baits. Thanks in advance. Yes I'm sure. You can concoct something here. Again, preface with you can always throw whatever on. Yeah, I mean, I can throw AC shiners double O AC shiners on a 9/6. That's right. Practice, practice, practice. But if you want something like just just straight dedicated to those retrieves, I mean Jay going with, what, 86 heavy? What what? What's kind of like your, your your. Go to there. I mean off the top of your head with all the different brands. As far as rod for that, that. All works best.
Jay:
Intercooler go with a heavy acuma that's a. That's a nice light rod.
Steven:
Yeah, but but with model wise like what do you like? Cause Saint Croix used to have like the downsize or or all this stuff. Like.
Jay:
There are well, Saint Croix is in the midst of a of a massive changeover, so the MOJO series and all the tournament series are being redone. So all the current ones that are in our catalog and online are actually discontinued. We're waiting for the release of the new ones. It's supposed to be by the end of the year. We don't know when.
Steven:
All the mask.
Steven:
Have two triggers on them.
Jay:
So price is going to go up a bit and they're going to have a grasp, handle, grasp, handle. Is that fixed handle deal. Right. That's on the tournament now, but. But but it's removable and it's got three different positions, so it's got like a large and small and a trigger and all of them snap in there and and you just do a little twist of the real seat action and it's on there. Very cool, very cool. But the price will.
Speaker
Oh.
Jay:
Go up a bit. Lot of people looking forward to that.
Steven:
What the price increase?
Jay:
So. The new St. road line. So yeah, get a medium heavy and a Saint Croix. Get it heavy and in a como heavy shield rod and the 86. I'd go with a I'd go with a nine footer. Actually, for the light stuff. Like you said, you know, you got your little AC shiners. I've thrown them. Yeah, my 9 foot.
Steven:
Ohh man.
Steven:
If. Can launch them at the.
Speaker 3
Chance, I know you can.
Steven:
Perfect. I I you don't necessarily the thing I don't like about we're going to go with you know, a downsized rod. OK, great, cool. If physicality is not an issue for you, like you don't want to downsize your equipment to alleviate physicality, spending some time, you got, you know you're going to must you opener 2025 take rattle traps and take Booker tails and learn to competently throw them on that that gear because throwing it on. Pure Trophy class muskie gear. You know you can hook into giants at any given time in Canada. I don't want to be under gunned in the Rod Department for a hook set or be able to quickly land that fish or fight that fish, right?
Jay:
That's why we don't recommend dash tackle for Muskies.
Steven:
Yeah, it's so don't downsize extremely far. Like I said, you you might be better served by not purchasing something and taking what gear you've got now and get comfortable with throwing these bases. Because like I said, you know, take my 9/6 and. My freaking, you know, one of my throat. I'm turning this die with TW's and all this stuff. Now. You can set your real you know I'm not. I don't use. Admittedly, I don't use the mag brakes or the real tension, or my stuff's just in their loosey Goosey. But I'm throwing a crap every day. You know? You get used to it, but you could sit in this appropriately, set the the anti backlash on your real and get that thing dialed in so you're not backwashing. But until you feel comfortable throwing this stuff on that. Want to tackle if you're dead set on a downsize thing? I mean like Jay was saying, I think the cheapest route of something effective like Akuma and things of that nature and maybe the Shimano's got some of these comp rates which are good so you're not busting the bank. On it and if you want to downsize real, I mean, I've got clients that are throwing out. I think they're great real. The freaking shrinks 3 hundreds. Have you have you played with Ronjay?
Jay:
No, not not a 300. I've got a 400 though.
Steven:
They're freaking there. They're the cat's ***. They're good. And so you know it, especially I'll. I will delve into the if if my hand gets, I get the claw or stuff. I'm getting everything here.
Steven:
Yeah. No, I'm sure, sure.
Steven:
I'll throw these little bad dudes and they're super cozy. Sleep camping. That's really good. It's like a cardigan in your hand, Jay.
Speaker 3
That's so kind of like a nightfall cardigan. Uncomfortable.
Steven:
It's it's, you know, it's it's a heck of a real. So that would be like if you definitely do a set up, you know, get your comp right in Akuma. That's kind of Whittier. And then, you know. Tranks 300. But like I said I I my my money is going to be spent on practicing with some of these banks and you know definitely with the that time of year early season for Muskies I mean this year was like. Freaking pee. The pulling of teeth right early on on on some of these pipes. Water. So have a lot of options. I mean, I've seen it too. Where it's like, right on the opener. You know, they're already on the big rubber, so don't go in with a preconceived notion, but have have some of these baits. I mean, you know, bookers crushed. On rattle traps, is is JB Rattlers. Before up there actually all year long, so there's options Greg, yeah. After fishing hard on two different bodies of water with similar tactics throughout the days, but on the chain of lakes, I couldn't keep them pinned. OK, OK, so. OK, I'm dissecting this. So he's finishing on. A couple different bodies of water, but he's what he's getting at is. On certain bodies, why he can't keep fish pinned, he couldn't land them. Casting and trawling means losing them. But on clear, Deep Lakes, I didn't lose any. Right.
Speaker 1
Steven:
I would say I got a pretty good hook set. Any thoughts? So basically setting up on on one system or a couple bodies where they're similar to one another. He's losing fish on deep clear lakes. He's landing them. It would be very hard to say, look for causation or corollary. On that right. UM. Sometimes you just lose them. And yeah, it's sometimes it's how the fish hits sometimes are. You hooked sharp. You know I, before I went before I went to.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
The extreme of saying tanic bodies of water. I'm losing more fish than I'm catching on, say gene. Clear bodies of water or whatever your, whatever your, maybe your fishing, muddy water and Clearwater. Whatever. I it would be hard for me to go fishing, turbid water or or I'm losing those. But in clear water, I'm landing those because if they're biting, they're biting. They've closed that gap. So I don't really feel that those fish would. Strike. I mean, every fish hits different, so there's a million here. But I don't think the actual composition of the body of water is going to influence the landing of them. However, the darker water, sometimes you can't read how a fish is it? Let's say we're tannic water.
Jay:
Yes. OK.
Steven:
You know you've hooked a muskie. You know you can't see what he's doing as well. Is he going left? Is he going right? Is he head shake? And you can just feel it wearing clear water. You go. He's going to the left and you're kind of leading. So there is a modicum of of visual representation. You might pick up. And Clearwater verse, verse dark stuff. Jay, where you.
Steven:
Hmm.
Jay:
Maybe something with the Clearwater, too. You know? You know, they they go down on you, you know, and right.
Speaker 3
I like that part.
Jay:
Yeah. And maybe in the shallow, dark water, they don't have room to do that. So they do more head thrashing, maybe come out of the water. Books are more apt to come flying out. They go down, you know, in the in.
Steven:
True.
Jay:
Yeah. One thing is, is is nipping versus biting. I mean we've all seen that there's days where fish or you know whatever you're catching, you know, especially when you start getting in the Pike and stuff, it's just like, God, I'm not eating the Pike aren't even getting landed. I'm getting a. Few hits here and. Right. Coming off, they're not really. Yeah, they're not just eating it. It's like, eat the beets. Come on.
Steven:
Crush the Dang thing.
Speaker 3
Eat the food, Tina. Yeah, I.
Jay:
Mean. Yeah. There's different bites every. Day.
Steven:
I I've had a lot of people just go. Like you know, get mad at themselves. What did I do? Nothing. There's nothing you could have done, right? He he hit it and hit it. Funky.
Jay:
Said how he how it hits him and it, you know, relating to suffer fishing. I mean, anyone that suffer, sucker fish, it's just like.
Steven:
I have here, yeah.
Jay:
There's probably a 5050 shot. That, that muskie, when it hits that and takes out line, you're like, oh, we got 1 going, you know, and it's just like it's but you know. What the hooks aren't in the mouth?
Steven:
Ah.
Steven:
I I called him out. Yeah. Freaking watch her. Suck her. Watch her sucking BS. Watch my sucker, baby. For my the second. That thing moves, Jack his freaking face off.
Jay:
It's close you you can't land them. All the time they come off like that or. They drop it.
Steven:
You know, I don't lose sucker fish because I'm not sitting there piddly dinking with them. People sit there and play tiddly winks them all it listen, if you rigged your.
Jay:
Yeah. OK.
Steven:
You're right and I'll say the other problem with this guys will have the rig spread. Out too far. Right. It's like, well, you know, whatever. Just just hammer them. Have that. If when it's rigged in the sucker appropriate, we'll tear away from the sucker a bit. You're going to get them. Whatever. Freaking it's it's. It's that like Greg, I wouldn't. I wouldn't, I I love over analyzing things and just breaking it down. But you you would drive yourself nuts. You know, I'm saying you would. You would absolutely move. You would drive yourself to Frank.
Steven:
MHM.
Steven:
If you go to a spot with structure and do a bait check using electronics and see no bait. At a point of the day near the structure, OK, do you still fish or move on somewhere else and find bait fish. OK, so if you pull into interesting structure and you're not seeing the presence of any bait fish, what does one do? Well. I want to identify positive structure. Based on current weather conditions and seasonality, where should muskies be staged? And I want to see some bait fish present so I know that there is some forage base in that area for any predating muskie, right? That is on a good general thing, however. On the worst of the worst of the worst of the worst. It sounds like you sausage commercial. Worst, worst, worst. When we get down to the nitty gritty and mall, the fish are on the Bob Jay. We fish days like this for there's nothing. On. There's nothing on the fish fighter. There's nothing on side skin. You can't pick them off. On live image. Because everything is in the mud, they're touching bottom. There's not a fish from, you know, 20 feet. Down to 0 feet moving or suspended or anything. They're just hugging mud or gravel or whatever. If conditions are so poor that everywhere that we go say we, you know, like in in the book, I talk about a three-point bait check right to just kind of give yourself a gauge of. What's happening on a daily basis? Let's say you've checked. Let's say the Frank here. He checks this structure. Let's pretend it's a point. Frank pulls up this structure that, that, that looks good to him. He's checking it out. There's nothing, and then he goes to two more and there's nothing. And then you drive around the lake in the open water and you go. There's nothing on the graph right there should be. That is, when I have no regard for my depth Finder or my fish finders. Whether telling me fish are there or not, because at a certain point you know if they're not shallow, they're not mid, they're not deep and they're not in the woods, they're on the bottom. Right where you cannot differentiate them. On down scan or sometimes when they're physically touching. I'm not just talking Musk. I'm talking all bait, fish, anything when they're physically touching the bottom. It's really hard to pick them out. And I've I've got my fish.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Steven:
Finder, kind of like. I don't trust it some days because I'm like, look, I'm paying off. It's like there's nothing there, but whatever. If I'm not saying anything, but I know seasonally, like I said this, let's say this is a point, there's nothing there, nowhere else I'm going has anything. I will target things with no bait fish present because they have to be somewhere and I would like to think that one that is inactive or. Just completely out of the game. Might physically be on said point or said structure. And now I'm purely structure fishing with baits that are running right above the structure by contouring it and getting. Hear it? In hopes that I kind of wake this thing out of its slumber, where it's buried on the bottom right the rest of the time when I pull into places I don't have to see my skies. I don't have to see well. I want to see activity. I want to see signs of life, right? So. Kind of pick your poison. What are the conditions? Is it you know, 40° cold front, blue through high, bright sun. Not a lick of wind and everything. 'S awful. You might just have to target structure blindly with no basis of where bait fish have congregated, because you can't pick them out because they're hugging bottle. And the muskies in the wall and. Everything subsequently is. So that's kind of the break that makes sense.
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steven:
You know that's that's kind of my take there.
Speaker
Ah.
Jay:
Yeah, it's when you run into that situation it. Is not easy. And it is very frustrating that that, I mean, I don't have great electronics, but it's got been there. It's just like I can't.
Steven:
Find data anywhere I just like I said, they ain't in the woods and and think. That when the food chain, like when when just the the crap hits the wall. The bait fish go to the bottom. Everything else goes to the bottom and they're down there having a Mexican star. And off right, nothing's moving. Everything, just hunkered, physically, touching bonding, you know, break out your body bite, break out your rubber, break out your ticking and clicking crank baits where you're like, if this, you know, the way I've caught fish in these conditions are like contouring, contouring, contouring, contouring, cover and structure as tightly as I can get to it, meaning that Muskie has to move. Just the tiniest amount to engage and back to fricking how? You said they're hitting the amount of those critters I've caught by contouring hard cover, you know, hard to see hard structures like points and deep stuff. Where it's like the slightest tick, you feel like you're ticking rocks, really grinding into them. Slow, slow, slow. And you know that feels slightly different. And a muskies grabbed it, but they haven't hit it with any tenacity. Right. You might have just drug it 4 inches from their nose. Yeah. Forget it. Why not? And they take it. Ryan's looking to get my first nice muskie rod. I'm torn between the Kumi VX and the Saint Croix Mojo fishing off the bank. Jay, what do you think, Bud?
Speaker
Between the.
Steven:
2 akuma. Movie X and a Saint Croix mojo.
Jay:
Fishing off the bank. OK, well, depending on what kind of lures you're using. Yeah, with the Kuma go. Probably go with an extra heavy. Get the 86. They telescope with the mojo again. They're discontinued until the new ones come out with the with the grass handle. So 86 is a good all around length. It really is from most anglers.
Speaker 3
Hmm.
Jay:
There's there's just personal personal specifications that need to be addressed. It's just like, how do you travel with it? You know, if you're bank phishing and you're throwing to the back of a car or you know, something with limited space, go with something telescoping make life easier. Well made, they don't comfort no rods. Break none of the telescoping rods we've sold for. Have an issue with breaking at that that that's a it seems to be a big concern with a lot of people when. They're looking at. Like the things you know what I mean that this thing's? Going to snap? On me? No, don't worry about that. It'll snap on you if you run it over or slam a car door on it or something like that. Or if it gets stepped on in the boat, you're probably. Going to damage your guide.
Steven:
Uh.
Jay:
But but that's user error. OK, it's it's not. It's a defect of any nature. So don't. It's not a concern. Telescoping rods. Other coolers or some of the smiles, the shield rods, the Saint Croix, and and all of the Essex assault stuff by chaos tackle all their stuff. Telescoping. Great stuff.
Steven:
Yeah. I mean, there's there's freaking. There's so much good stuff for odd wise right now. Everything's good. Good. What you like? You know you can't go wrong with Saint Croix. They're all good, Alex. Thank you for the podcast. I've learned a lot. I do have a quick question on the savage gear alien. My confidence is fishing rubber with Bulldogs. I picked up some alien heels since the price point and color options are great. I have also found that they run great in the water so have been very happy fishing them. Here's the issue however I have two now that the tails have ripped where the tails section means the main body directly behind the plastic harness.
Speaker 3
Hmm.
Steven:
These are new baits in mirror contact with fish. The first time I acted and I thought it was a fluke. The second time I was ripping the baits over top of weeds, which is what I do with Bulldogs all the time. Thoughts on this? Any tips or tricks to keep those tails? Ripping. No, that sucks. Like if it's like right there at the back. I mean, if it happens, hit them with some, mend it and burn it on. I don't think. I don't think it's not it just. Is. What it is, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't sound like user error. You know it just, just just. There's no.
Jay:
Couldn't you like break off a toothpick and soak it in super glue and just shove it in there to preempt it from not coming apart?
Steven:
I mean, if you I guess I mean.
Jay:
You know, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I you use them a. Lot I I don't use.
Steven:
Yeah, I I don't. I've not. I've I've turned. I threw the crap out of this thing, so I've not had.
Jay:
Them a lot. I've I've thrown them, but I yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
I've not had that issue, and again I'm not showing for them. Umm. Uh. Hold on, freaking. Sorry. I just for I'm. I'm looking ahead on e-mail. I I've not had that problem. It happens batch to batch bait to bait. You know what I'm saying? I'm sure if you emailed the fine people at Savage gear, they could probably help you or take care of you on that. That would be my recommendation if you got it.
Steven:
It could be.
Steven:
Like I said, maybe they won't, but. That would be. That would be my move because like I said, if you've had problems with those, and I again, I've thrown hundreds of them over the years and they are not not problematic. What we got here? Hey, Steve and Jaybird, meow. A couple weeks ago was fishing on the French river here Ontario and all the fish seemed to be suspended. 25. 5:00-ish feet and 50 feet of open water with no apparent structural features. Am I crazy to be fishing? No structure, or is it that maybe a local thing where they're falling? Schools of hearing in open water, as abundant as an abundant food source? Love the podcast? Absolutely, Paul. So in this scenario, where things this, this happens. Telegenic fish break a lot of the rules of structure fishing because they are simply suspended or chasing fish in open water, right? So they will go out and sitting late for their arrival of bait fish or sit and wait near bait fish and just kind of that thing. Now the argument can be made, you know, are these structurally, these fish adhere to structural tenants throughout their part of the year and then when the hearing? It happens. They move out. I think that's what happens or fish like move. In move out. But if you're not crazy, you will just find straight up suspended fish over and in deep water that are just there. And usually when you find one you will find multiples. Right. Now sometimes you will find Muskies like especially on live imaging, where they're just out there, right? We talk about it all the time, like, well, if they've moved it on structure, they've eaten and they'll go out too deep or cooler water just to sit. And on occasion, you'll just run into Muskies that are just like, they're there. They're down there metabolizing. They're inactive, their brains half shut off. They're in a solvent state and they're just there, right? However, if you have open water forage, that's a whole other ball game where you will just have these straight up fish where there's no rhyme or reason as to where they're at other than the relationship with bait fish, right?
Jay:
If you're looking. To get into that Wolf Pack hunting kind of thing too, which happens more in open water.
Steven:
You know, you just out in the middle of nowhere. I've had days where I'm going. Well, we're we're hundreds of yards from the shore. There's no true like, you know, you obviously have your bottom topography, but. They're not queueing in on that, they're just out here taking advantage of an. Abundant food source. Right. They they're going to exploit the easiest thing. So if there are tons of ciscos, there's tons of Chad or whatever open water bait fish. You will have a contingency that I don't care what body water you're on. If you have a collegiate bait source or food source. There are muskies that are taking care of tear that and and honing in on that year round. Now, where does one begin keeping up with that and then not becoming a needle in a haystack's a different story?
Speaker
Right.
Steven:
Right. So. You're you're trying to dial in an open, you know, open water, bait, bait, fish. Essentially at all times, right where? The only thing that is a queue. That is a a hard queue that Muskies will be present would be the presence of bait fish. And again, you can find the ones that are just sitting and they're just sitting. They're just there. Be somewhere metabolism. But you know, if you're on ciscos or something of that nature. You know your first jobs finding ciscos and then hitting around them and trying to stay. With those schools. Right. So whole different ball game, but you're not crazy. Paul, like I said, Jay, am I crazy? He wouldn't know. I don't think he's crazy. You're not crazy. It just is what it is, you know? Sure is. That was some juicy Q&A. Jay a lot.
Steven:
Of people, that sure was.
Steven:
A lot of people thinking rods. Very enjoyable. Ohh. Some might say. Annie. Check it out. You got the Magnus preview there on the Muskie shop. Jays doing his Dang this. He's slicing film the old fashioned way as we speak. Getting things together here, he's doing his. It's like the apocalypse now of Muskie bait promos. He's got for the crack and tails coming out here. Check out your magnet. Sign up at the shop. Jay. Say thanks, guys.
Speaker 1
Two days. It's gonna be the day that you're gonna get here. Right now you should somehow draw them into. Down. Beat up the color of the boat, but you know the. Steve said with the wife. The plan is almost gone.