Musky 360 Podcast Episode 236: Early Season Musky Magic
Podcast Transcript
Steven:
All right, folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast. Jaybird, are you on the hawg sauce?
Jay:
Not yet, but I will be July 20th, Steve.
Steven:
Friggin sauced out. He's on the sauce.
Jay:
This stuff it it it. Looks great. I've got an honorary can in the office. Right? Ready to be filled.
Steven:
Thou, Sir, what are you going to do?
Steven:
You know you've tasted the Thunder, right? You've had a little fight juice. Now it's time for some muskie hawg sauce.
Jay::
Yeah.
Steven:
At the musky shop bash, we've not talked about the bash forever. It's July 20th this year, Jay:. We're actually going to do things slightly different this year. I'm excited about that. So did you make the purchase of the things we talked about by the way, have you done that yet? I'm doing that on, on there.
Steven:
Tomorrow. OK. Get them coming. OK. So what, Jay: and I are going to do this year.
Speaker 4
I believe.
Steven:
Is focus on. I think the bash the focus this year is going to be more so on what's going on with the vendors, what's going on with the baits, right?
Speaker 5
M.
Jay:
Umm.
Steven:
So we're going to trapes around the entire bash and I think this is the biggest year for vendors. We've ever had. It is so. Some of the newcomers, what some what? Some vendors, Jay: off the top of your head. They're going to be. Chaos tackle. There you go. OK, Smity. Tackle Boo.
Jay:
They they might be cooking too, cooking with heat. Nice. You got Livingston lures. Yeah. Suick. Yeah. Shimano Shimano.
Steven:
Diala Niwa real Joe Bucher outdoors? Yeah, he'll be there.
Jay:
Saint Croix, rod.
Steven:
I'll Saint Croix's coming this year. Yep, very nice Mepps.
Jay:
Figure 8.
Steven:
Yep.
Jay:
Lakewood tackle boxes.
Steven:
Lakewood.
Jay:
Rough tackle red dogs rant. Rad dog. Hooked on Muskie Baits, Bucktails.
Steven:
Very nice. So it just it just goes on and on, the beat goes on.
Jay:
Musky mayhem. Musky innovations. Yeah, it goes on and on. Yeah, there's a ton of vendors coming, and there's more surprises on the way. And.
Steven:
They're going to have cool stuff. Yeah, difference. Yeah, they'll be there. It'll be cool. So. I think this year what we're going to do is just let people be. If you want to ask Joe Bucher a question, guess what you do go to JBO Booth and ask Joe Bucher question. Just talk to him. We're going to keep it casā, Jay:.
Jay:
Yes, we.
Steven:
Are like in years past. We we required a tuxedo to attend. Not this year very casā, right? Just show up. Come as you are. They say, you know, do your thing, it's your thing. Do what you want to do. What are you gonna do? I can't tell you who to socket to. Anyway, so we're excited about that. The bash, and we will, of course, have the energy drink the energy drink, Jay:.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Energy Northwoods muskie hawg sauce. Ohh get you get you ripped.
Speaker 2
Annual.
Steven:
And probably give you bone cancer. Anyway, holy cannoli. The comings and the goings of the muskie shop we do all the time. No, we're past it. We're in muskie season above Hwy. 10. By the time we do the next one of these, Jay:, Can you believe it? It's on like the Kong. They've been open in the South. Obviously it never ends for me.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
We're we're weeks away from Canada. I can't believe it. We're finally here. It's like. Painful stuff. So you know no more what's showing up if there's new stuff showing up, we'll talk about. That. I would say the only thing we've mentioned before is Mepps is. Really discounting stuff. Get on them. You know, you got the Bobby Creepers we talked about last week. Other than that, everything's in. Everything is ready to rock'n'roll. It is time. What?
Jay:
We've got that sale going on with Smity Baits, now 15% off on select Smity Baits through Tuesday.
Steven:
Really didn't know that.
Jay:
The hook kit? Yeah. There's big banner on the top of the website that will direct you, right.
Speaker 2
To you, there's some other great.
Steven:
Well, I can some wine. Yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, your wife made.
Steven:
The banner. Well, you got this. So there you go. Wizard bucktail. Yeah, wizard spell. You notice a trend here? Witchcraft. Dark magic? Yeah. Dark. Like Northwoods dark magic. It's trying. What do you? Think. Let me ask, let me see here. It's that kind of day. Get him on the horn. Let's see.
Steven:
Hello.
Steven:
What is your fascination with the occult, Jake Smith?
Jake
That's what.
Steven:
You're on the podcast. Me and Jaybird. We got a promo gun. You got a discount on the Smity Baits, right, Jay:?
Jake
Yeah, we do. We got 50.
Steven:
Yeah, but here's what I'm saying, wizard. Spell wizard. Bucktail. Black magic. Jay:, what do you say?
Jake
Oh oh.
Steven:
Uh oh, you're caught. Are you guys running a cult up there?
Jake
Ohh no cults up here, no.
Steven:
Ah, Jake, what's going great?
Jake
Nothing going on up here.
Steven:
I well, I hate to bother you. You got a little bit of a sell gun on on some early season killers. So you got the Smity with the wizard spell. What's going on with those baits, man? I'm sorry to bother you on a Sunday night. It is is.
Jake
No, it's all good.
Steven:
Well, you got nothing else going on. I can promise that.
Jake
Yeah. Just I just finished finished eating. My dinner, which was had no seasoning.
Steven:
- It was good. It was just a boiled croppie.
Jake
Actually I just said scrambled eggs with ham.
Steven:
Wow. Jay:.
Jake
So I'm meeting the I'm meeting the meeting, the eggs, not the.
Steven:
Chicken. Uh oh, well, that's not kosher, my friend. I can tell you about a kosher kitchen, but nonetheless.
Jake
No, but yeah, so the Wizards Wizards spell. Really good early season Baits, you know, working over the shallow weeds which the weeds are up. We got really awesome weeds operating all big green cabbage. Yeah, it was like.
Steven:
Really.
Jake
Finding right now I'm finding like weeds up in 7-8 feet of water. They're all the way. To the top. Nice. Those those baits are going to be. Are really good, just, you know, for fishing that type of water really season.
Steven:
Well, and you've got the like the wizard Bucktail which is the the kind of a nod of the hat to like a Rizzo Wiz, right. You got the two body on there, which we fished in the past where that, that body, the plastic body and that gives it a little more buoyancy. When it first lands, wouldn't you? OK.
Jake
Ohh for sure. Yeah it's not weighted heavy so it doesn't. It's not made to get down deep. So yeah it. It's, you know, it doesn't doesn't sink really much at all when you when it. Hits the water.
Steven:
Right. Hit it. And you, you kind of contour. What? What's your read? You guys have got what? By the time, by the time I do the next episode, like I said to Jay: that the seasons on like Donkey Kong, right.
Jake
Yeah. So I've been actually muskie fishing. I've been up in the UP for the last three days.
Steven:
Nice.
Jake
The seasons open up there, so I got a good read of. What's going on by by the UP, do you?
Steven:
Mean Eagle river. I'm sorry folks. If you don't know, everybody gets all touchy, right?
Jake
No, not see the river. It's been been really good. It's been really, it's been really.
Steven:
Good. That's all. I didn't know you. I didn't know you had been doing that. I'm. I'm an idiot. You're hitting that. What? Yeah. What's the water jams?
Jake
Yeah. So, no, no, no guiding, no guiding up there. Just fishing as you know, you know.
Steven:
Right.
Jake
Well, you illegally you can't guide up there. So I have just just been fishing and.
Steven:
MHM.
Jake
But yeah, the water temperatures were from this morning 62. By the afternoon I see it's 67. Whoa. Yeah. So water's warm. We're we're, you know, we're fishing little smaller lakes, so they're not, like, big deep lakes. So yeah, the waters waters up there.
Steven:
Yeah, that's that's that's way higher than I thought. What what's the feedback you are you guys seeing any fish or what? What's going on?
Jake
Yes, we caught quite a few little. Ones. All probably the males are all beat up. You can tell they've been spawned. They're all spawned out, so it's not like we're chasing. You know the they're not in the spawning process right now. It seems to be done. So from everything I've seen. But yeah, we caught, we caught a lot. But a lot of them are small, so it's been fun. It's been fun to be throwing lures and be fun chasing muskies so.
Steven:
Now. Yeah. Get, get, get open up. Get lubed up. Get ready to rock'n'roll. I assume you're like, right back on the water here very shortly for a season opener with your schedule and. We'll check in what? What? What are you thinking? How's this gonna? How's that gonna translate to the areas you actually guide that that North Woods section and all that fun stuff?
Jake
Yeah. I I mean, I think it's gonna be from what I saw. What's going on up there? I mean, I've been walleye fishing around here and water temperatures are both the same 60. Two, I've seen the bigger lakes, you know, even in the afternoon, sunny days, it's been 64 sometimes by after. Room. So they're all the lakes. I mean, I'm not talking about the real deep. I haven't been on super.
Steven:
Right, like a trout or? Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Jake
I haven't been on those as much since smaller lakes that are maxed out at 40 feet or things like that are.
Steven:
Right.
Jake
Or warmer and darker water. Of course. You know that's gonna be that's always the the go to, you know, go try your warmest lakes 1st and. Shallower lakes first.
Steven:
I mean. In in all reality though, with with those kinds of temps, I mean we're talking.
Jake
You could go to.
Steven:
Larry.
Jake
You could you could start I mean. You could start with the deeper lakes. Actually I I mean possibly.
Steven:
Yeah, I I'm just thinking out loud where you go. You could start with freaking top water. Those tips up.
Jake
There. Ohh I throw top water for on and off the last three days just because, but I didn't have anything at all. Everything was on Wizards. And our jerk tracer, we got a couple on that. And Wizard spell and I'm working on a prototype. They got a couple on a prototype feed so.
Steven:
Is it also? Is it also wizard themed?
Jake
This one is not no.
Steven:
Ohh, that that ****.
Steven:
Is shocking. In a shocking twist. It's not. It's not dungeons and Dragons themed, right? The Smity Warlock enchanter is.
Jake
Well, I did. I did make one, but I don't think I'm going to go that direction this time, but there's so many prototypes I've been working on, but there is one, maybe now.
Steven:
I'm teasing you.
Jake
That seems to be moving some fish, but we'll see.
Steven:
Very cool, man. We're just going to tease you. Check it out. You got the Smity sale. There's a discount on the wizard. Bucktail the wizard. Spell the top. Actually, the top kick.
Jake
The original, you know, those were made by **** Price originally. They're, you know, weighted belly weighted. So they don't roll. They got aluminum tail, you can, you know, I got them doing pretty good, but you can adjust them a little bit if you want to couple them in a little.
Steven:
What else?
Jake
But yeah, that's it's a good top water bite.
Steven:
What else is that freaking sell on the Smity file? You don't need to put those on sale. Everybody buy those.
Jake
Yeah, that's the the just the rust resistant ones on sale.
Steven:
Uh. Nice.
Jake
Yeah, the flat one. And now I've had had that my boat. One of them's been in my boat for three years and it's starting to show signs of rust finally now. So there's those. And that's, you know, every day it's in the boat.
Steven:
And that's in there.
Jake
It's been a good.
Steven:
Tests. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I I have one of those and I just go. OK, I'm just use it day in and day out. I I I'd say four or five times a day. I just grabbed it and went for it. So very cool. Well, Jake, I just had to call and harass you. But.
Steven:
Yeah, just lay off their cold activity. If you could just. We'll see. No, no promises. Right? You can't listen. It gets lonely. And like in the summer, everything comes around. But you're locked up in the house. It's cold. It's snowing, right? You break you, you break up the Smity.
Jake
Ohh we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, it's a long winter. It's a long winter.
Steven:
Ouija board doing weird stuff. Anyway, guys, check it out. There's a little bit of a sell there. In in all seriousness though, like what would you say somebody that's going to be lined up? Season opening up there, what they need to be doing well. Where's your gut? Where's your God brain?
Jake
Yeah, everything I'm seeing is been in shallow weeds, but. It doesn't mean you should move out a little bit. You know, if the males are all. In their, you know, females, sometimes they're bigger. Fish could be off the weed line a little bit or a little bit. Deeper.
Steven:
MHM.
Jake
So it's something to think about trying. We didn't really move a lot doing that in the last three days, but we tried it on and off. I tried, you know, even rock bars and we did catch we did. Catch one out on a. A deeper spot that had like. A. A bar that came up with reeds on it so the fish are on the reeds, but the focus on the shallow green cabbage that's coming up right now.
Steven:
That's yeah, should be. If you you're saying.
Jake
That's your goal too. I mean that's that's.
Steven:
If you're having that kind of a good cabbage here, it should be throw and go.
Jake
Yeah, in those weeds, they didn't die off over the winter because we didn't have the snow cover.
Steven:
MHM.
Jake
So like there might be like a little black on the edges of the tops of the weeds, but.
Speaker 5
MHM.
Jake
I mean they're they're 7 feet tall already, cause that we had no snow. I mean, very little snow cover. So they they had sun all winter long, they didn't die.
Steven:
That's crazy. Well, well, very cool. We'll check it out. You got got a little bit of a Smity sale here, which is a rarity, but they've got some cool stuff, and they're kicking it.
Speaker 5
Sure.
Jake
Yeah. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2
That's.
Steven:
And.
Jake
Probably the only sale this year, so good time to stock up on the on the Wizards and.
Steven:
And we're gonna we're, I think we're gonna fish some at some point this summer. I think the Smithās is going to Take Me Out and sacrifice me in.
Speaker 4
In what files?
Jake
The woods. I believe you're taking me this time.
Steven:
Well, I've been taking you. We'll go. Heck yeah, dude let you. I would prefer. Let's do that when we go out, I'll take you. Got no. Heck no. I gotta. I gotta place in mine. We'll catch. Listen, dude, I got a 34 with your freaking name.
Jake
Ohh, just kill the dead. 34 pounder.
Steven:
No 34 inches, if you're lucky. If you figure right, well and and execute right. I mean, what? What's 15 hours for a 34 between friends? Really.
Jake
You'd be able to get one in 30. 4 hours, you'd think.
Steven:
34 of troubling folks, folks, if you want to come to the north. Was he guarantees one bite every 34 hours? That's pretty good.
Jake
Ohh that's good. So it's really good odds.
Steven:
That is, that is, he trolls. What you what do you troll grapple tails, right? You trolling grapple tails and you know, basically, you know, whatever it, whatever it takes, folks just getting there, getting nitty gritty goodness. I'm an idiot. Anyway, buddy, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jake
Takes.
Steven:
Friend.
Jake
Yeah. Thanks for calling. Talk to you then.
Steven:
At later dude. Jay:, I'm so sorry we lost you in there. In the IT was the Smity Black. Magic is why I. Lost. Yeah, I like I said.
Jay:
1st.
Steven:
He just wouldn't. He wouldn't comp to it, but we talked about, they got little Smity cell going on with their Wizards tales and the Wizards bells and. They'll they'll be at the Muskie shop bass bat. I can't even talk. Muskie shop bash. Yep. Selling wizard tales it's it's whatever. So it was cool, he said. He's been up in the in the UP, just getting dialed in for season. So I I think we have a date. Jay:, prepare yourself for that. I'm telling you in real time, me, you and Jake are going to go hit some while we're up there. That's lined up at some point. So we're we're just going to do that for funds rosies and maybe do a Smity deep dive. Good segue didn't even know it.
Speaker 2
OK.
Steven:
Something we should talk about, Jay:. We're going to hit things a little differently this year on videos.
Speaker
What's that?
Steven:
Yeah. So here's the plan. I am very tired and everyone is very fatigued. If Ronnie caught a fish, no one cares. Jay: right here. Here's. Here's Lenny. Here's Ronnie. What we're gonna do is we're gonna do double down, triple down, quadruple down on information with the videos this season, right. I don't think we need to. Hey, they caught. If I if I have to prove I can get your fish, I quit, right. Me and Jay: talked about it, Jim, the tube screamer Stewart talked about. We're going to do podcast level crazies for videos this season. Correct. Jay:, what are you thinking? What? Where's your brain? Out. We've been gabbing about what's kind of the direction on this thing.
Jay:
Yeah, direction is go deep, go deep dive on, you know, informational. Segments, you know, like fish and. Rubber.
Steven:
Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Gonna be gonna open up with some rubber stuff. And then obviously. Probably a trolling thing. Like I said, I I'm. Cast to catch. We do it. That's great. There's a million of those. I mean, there's a fish. There's not a fish. There's a big fish. There's a small fish. There's somebody hyperventilating over a 34 who gives a rats. Just convey what's going on here. Technically more so. So if you like the podcast, you like the videos a little bit more. And I'm just bored. With getting 30 seconds to tell you, here's the bait I used, and I think that's the thing we're going to switch up. This year is getting crazy in depth. So Jay:, we had a lot of great views on like the complete guide to muskie angling and all this stuff. So we're going to double down on that, which would be cool. As far as my week has been crazy. Had to make a. Emergency trip to the West by God, and then showed back up. It's been it's been a tailgater bite, Jay:. Believe it or not.
Jay:
Yeah, you're. Yeah, we were talking about that this.
Steven:
It was. It's been crazy where?
Jay:
Morning. Yeah.
Steven:
It was one of these baits when we were working on it till Donna said I need this. I want this. This is for me. We'll see what it does for everybody else.
Jay:
Yeah, Don from Figure 8.
Steven:
Don. Yeah, Don Jane. Sorry. And. Real, real, real. Stop. Real, real, real. Stop. Shall I wanna jerk because we're talking today and I'm. I'm we're. I'm working up the concepts or making some notes. I don't make notes. I'm. I'm full of. It, but I'll wing everything and Jay: knows.
Jay:
It mental notes.
Steven:
Yeah, barely. So you have to. You have to be Cognizant. That. UM. Talking about this rubber video we're working on because what I want to do is convey as much as we can visually, because I think sometimes we're we're gabbing on the podcast like what we can do this podcast level on a video. And. I was thinking about some of these shallow water scenarios for guys. Say you're on the fox in Chicago or you know you're in Virginia or you're in Pennsylvania where it's really shallow. And you're working jerk baits or you want to work jerk baits, but are you a snag? The tailgater I've been tearing him up on this rip, fall or turn the handle fall. Please don't treat that bait the the the Steve Tailgater don't treat it like it's a spinner bait. Treat it like a jerk bait. Pull it across 12 to three or you know, 12:00 to 9:00, depending on your handedness. Pull it across your body and let it fall, and then pick up the slack. It's been devastating and shallow zones, Jay:.
Jay:
Very cool, very cool.
Steven:
Practically, yeah, you can't snag it. And then like today, we're talking about you're throwing spinner baits right now. You're fishing, rowing on the river, correct? What's going on there?
Jay:
Yeah, I was rolling on the river last couple mornings and, yeah, saw some Muskies caught, caught a bunch of everything, all species. So it wasn't great fishing, but it was. Consistent in that manner, you know picking up fish. Yeah. Yeah. Had a nice musky up, you know, 40 inch class probably and. It's, you know, we can't target them right now. And it wasn't, it was throwing half Oz fast spinner baits for small mouth and. Primarily and yeah, it it mouth open. Try to eat it right at the boat, but missed. It's like, OK, that'll wake you up.
Steven:
All right. Well. That's the thing that that's an interesting thing.
Jay:
All those cool that was cool and he was he was on wood, he was on shallow wood, you know everything.
Steven:
Hmm.
Jay:
Slow warming here, Steve, really. You know, yeah. Didn't get as warm as they said. Again, the last couple of days, so. Water's cool, you know, and it's, you know, weeds are just starting to emerge from what I've been seeing. So it's gonna be an interesting opening weekend. You know, the the fish I saw was Saturday was real beat up, looked to be still spawning.
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
It's just, you know what I mean? It it extremely lazy follow uninterested coming off of a flat spawning area in a Creek basically. So we'll see what happens. You know, I've been hearing spotty reports, but a lot of the reports are from people fishing in the southern half and they are. They've had, they're miles ahead of us in terms of water temps where the lakes are at in.
Steven:
Yeah. And. And Jake, you you didn't have the luxury here in that where some of that stuff he's fishing, it's warmer, you got colder. It just is what it is. You gotta make the read. You gotta make the assessment there, Jay:. Anyway, what? I was going to say is this. And and just kind of get down the rabbit hole for a second. We've done some crazy episodes here for the last few weeks and. Just circle back because a lot of listeners, they're they're getting ready for the Wisconsin opener and. The Minnesota Open here in a second right, right, right. Minnesota. And then you blink your eye. Jay: Canada openers right there. Right. Bingo.
Jay:
Bingo.
Steven:
What are we doing when the commonality when when the thing that everybody knows what to do doesn't? Work. Right, OK. What do we do when? You know, Jake and his black magic there at this mini bait company. They they got the wizard spell and the Wizards whatever and dungeon the Dragons or whatever they're into, right? You know he's a Minotaur or whatever. Whatever. Right. Yeah, no joke. It never ends with him. Scared freak show anyway. Hello. Hello.
Jay:
Yeah, no kidding, right? And I know scary that doesn't.
Steven:
You know, you know, so when they're not doing that garbage. What are muskies doing? How do we contact Muskies that are outside of? That. Typical that that prototypical zone. Because I think what's gonna happen, and this is just my guess, right.
Jay:
OK.
Steven:
Bear with me, I could be completely wrong however. Pretty good record keeper. Years, that kind of come together like this typically go from. You know, rainy too much wind, too smolderingly hot. Really fast. Right. We go kind of a dicey spring up and down a little bit warmer than usual and then nuclear hot. What are we looking at? How do we contact Muskies, win the game plan everyone else is doing falls apart? Right. My thoughts are this. What's everyone going to be throwing opening weekend in the north section? Small blades, small top waters, right? Maybe the informed will be throwing Titan Juniors. Maybe they'll be throwing, you know, Slammer, 5 inch Slammer. Fatty. These. Something of that nature, right? What happens when the bites not there? What do we do? And the other question is what do we do? Outside of the morning and the evening. Working on a thing in the app, I'll have it up this week, but I wanted to kind of go down the rabbit hole of some small bucktail troll. And as well as prepare yourself lipless crankbait trolling Jay:.
Jay:
OK.
Steven:
Something that that is just kind of like, yeah, yucky. Right. So. I've made this work for a lot of years when things are not prime. So. Somebody asked this week and I'll preface with you know, water temp versus light penetration versus all these different things at times. The allure of of of increased water temple hold Muskies where? The the the light penetration should drive them deeper, but they'll kind of just hang out there because they're recuperating. If we hit big cold fronts here in, in a short order, or we hit early season cold fronts, the willingness to get on the first break and there's there's so many places up N Minnesota, Wisconsin, Canada, where big, big, big littoral zones, big shallow flats, big weed areas and that first. Outside Edge that most people drive over the top of, that's going to open up some opportunities, right? So something I convey would. Be this a willingness to. Troll some of these small baits. Even if you can only troll one or two if we have, let's say, a 200 yard outside edge J, right? What's more effective? Are we casting across? Are we casting laterally, or are we trolling, say, a rattled tramp, right, like a JB rattler or a a A bill Lewis or whatever it is? With, say, rubber core in front of it or sinker in front of it on a short line 2535, some in that neighborhood at a controlled depth. What's going to be more effective for fish that have slumped off the edge? Right. You didn't hear Jake do it because we had a tech issue, but Jake caught 1 fish off of a point where, OK, there's one there. A rocky point with some Marines where if conditions fall apart here quickly or things get too hot quickly. I don't mean too hot like safety temps are going. OK, they exceed where they want to be. Where are? They gonna go. Right. The ability or the the the game plan to troll the outside edge of these things I think becomes imperative. If you have to put a fish in the boat where I think a lot of guys are going. OK, let's let's cast. Let's pitch. We're trying to. We're trying to schlub one up if we can.
Speaker 4
MHM.
Steven:
But. The flexibility to go, alright, let's hit the outside edge. And so just the thought of it conveys this is small presentations in a trolled manner. Are just as effective because if we think about the majority of our early season base, Jay:, they're mostly straight retrieve. Right. The Smity wizard tale the the Bucher 500, the JB Rattler, the rattle trap, right. Luncheon 22 short all these small presentations. Muskies are looking for small meals where they'll pop off on these things. It can be devastating. Hitting that first break, that first transition from let's say 6 to 12 or let's say where things start turning into deeper water now, how do I find those zones or a breakdown of of shallow northern lakes? Minnesota, you're hamstrung by most. Everything's big, right? But how do you breakdown a leg? Something I think is transcendent. Of of your Midwest bodies of water are the zones I call the nursery. Right, Jay:, how many lakes have we fished? Where went this? We call a section the nursery. That's true. Yeah, almost all of them. Almost every single lake we fish we got. That's the nursery. Where would they spawn well. If I had to put dollars to doughnuts on a Jake Smith said, are you still podcasting? Yes. Want to call back?
Jay:
He's lonely.
Steven:
He's probably lonely as hell.
Jay:
Probably casting a.
Steven:
Spell. He's probably freaking out in his yard in a robe, chanting.
Jay:
Cooking chicken out.
Steven:
There, well, he said. I can't remember what he had. He had something that was.
Jay:
He's doing a, you know, he's doing a shore lunch with hot.
Steven:
Dogs. Now that's what Fred does he if he does the old hot dog shore lunch, I'm sorry. I'm very tired, Jay: and the hot dog shore lunch is now the.
Jay:
Don't laugh.
Steven:
Man's name.
Jay:
Ohh not bad.
Steven:
Can you imagine if we just toured the North Woods and southern Canada with our cover band Hot Dog Shore Lunch? Yeah.
Steven:
You know, they got they got.
Jay:
Book a gig at book a gig at Medford Tire and Auto. Right. You know, start out there, start big, go downhill from there.
Steven:
Yeah, you. The Medford Auto and the.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
Folks. Let us know if you wanna come to a hot dog shore lunch show. That's ridiculous. I love that name. I hate, OK? I hate it. It's freaking stupid, but anyway.
Jay:
What were you talking about earlier? Cause I can't.
Steven:
Remember well, I was just kind of talking about. Where Muskies are going to go in this early season period where.
Jay:
Yeah, outside edge trolling.
Steven:
That right there, that outside edge, the same house, that edge we scored during cold fronts. And then the peak summer months, right?
Jay:
Yeah.
Jake
Ma.
Steven:
I'm telling you, if they're not where you want them to be, where we said the Minnesota guys, we just talked about the nursery, right? Every lake has the nursery.
Jay:
Yeah. Yes.
Steven:
Well. The places you typically find smaller fish or the tiny little shallow zones or little cruddy zones. Those are typically your spawning areas. Most of these inland lakes where you go and these are small little bodies of water. There's not too many options, right. Do they provide incoming water outflow? What is happening in these zones where they create a shallow spawnable zone? Right. What's happening in that Lake, Rigo, huh? It's shallower. Jake Smith was saying he's seeing weeds all the way up to seven feet. You know, maybe it's his zone where it's like 4 to 0. Are we breaking down the lake in a reasonable manner where we go? OK. Hey, this is going to be the shallows and this is where they should spawn. They're not going to venture too terribly far. Right.
Jay:
Right. Makes sense.
Steven:
On a. Right. Yeah, that's the thing we're looking for in most of these zones. Jay: just had a beat up one. Come in. I've heard guys, you know, friends up there. Hey, we're seeing some beat up ones we're seeing this. We're seeing that here's, you know, Joe Schmo caught one on a walleye, bait whatever and they're all ate up. You know, I I mean her back a few weeks ago so but they all pass spawn well it doesn't.
Jake
MHM.
Steven:
They seem that's the case, right? They might be slightly in the back sub. It's like like they've recouped completely. So where are the shallow zones that scream the nursery? And I think that's super important on dissecting your body water we go. What are the most habitual places on an inland inland lake, right? The ones we tend to gravitate to Jay:. And and not every lake in the North woods or not every lake has inflowing water, outflowing water. But the influx of water typically provides sediment, which shallows things up. Right, huh. Think about it. Over eons. And you'll find these nursery areas. Now what I'm looking for are nursery areas from a casting capacity where boat 736 went through it by Sunday morning, but nobody's looked on the outside periphery. The outside perimeter of these zones. How do I attack these zones? As effectively as possible, you know in the mid shell and deep methodology. Because, you know, running a rattle trap or JB rattler, say, 6 feet deep. On the outside of an 8 foot break, well, you're 2 feet off the bottom if you think the bottom tight because the light penetration. They can't avoid paying attention. And I've done this so long and and and so successfully over the years, we're trolling on the outside edge of spawning zones during subprime conditions. Is kind of like that. That day saver when you gotta do it. Right. And I think a lot of anglers will run into this, this this thing where we all do we got we we we we're fired up it's a season opening and ready to rock'n'roll. And you go man, I really want to smack him up. I really want to get on the game. And and it kind of falls apart, right? For As for as much as you want it to be. This shallow water blade bite or where top water bite. It might not happen, so just keep that in mind. You know, I'm I'm I'm. I'm just rambling on it and I apologize, but my thought would be. Lipless crankbaits small blades like the Wizard Spell or a book or 500 or a Mepps giant killer. And then downward placement of your rods, allowing you to get those depths you want to achieve across the board. Does that make sense, Jay:? I'm just just. Kind of.
Jay:
It does. And yeah, judging from what we got coming, I mean, I would almost.
Steven:
I mean.
Jay:
Use that as your game plan versus you know what you think most people are going to, you know, start with. You know what I mean? Because we've got a really cool rainy forecast for the next.
Steven:
I would. I'm I'm just.
Jay:
Week. Plus it's supposed to rain every day and be. Kind of cool. So, you know, we're not going to have super warm, you know.
Speaker 5
I'm that's.
Jay:
The water temps to start the season like we were, you know, two months ago, we were like, hey, we're going to have early ice out. You know, this is going to be, but up here where I live in northern Wisconsin, it's been.
Steven:
Right, right, right.
Jay:
Relatively stable water temps for several weeks. We haven't had those. That big warming thing yet. So yeah, be prepared. I mean, I like your game plan there, so I mean.
Speaker
Well.
Steven:
- I think that's a great idea. Got to make it work, you know, guiding. You have to make it work. You got to get a body. Gotta have a chance. Where? This year, for me has been. Way colder temps and way Rainier. Right. Usually waters pretty tick and warm. That's why I head up and hang out with you and crash at your house. And I'm an idiot, right? And pester you and then go to Canada because it things are getting warm. It's moderate. Right. Smity saw some warmer stuff, but if it doesn't take much to knock things down, I'm just telling you, I've scored so many fish trolling early in the season. If it translates, it translates. If it doesn't, it doesn't, but. Just cruising it, I mean, I'm talking trolling motor speeds 2 1/2 to 3 miles an hour. If you got a 112 or whatever in your boat or you know, just a small tiller, you can get those to happen when you go. Wow, I'm covering water. I'm covering breaks and just being intelligent about these presentations, I don't know, Jay:. I'll shut up. Oh, we'll hit a little Q&A here. We've had some power weeks here. We'll get to it, Dan. yo-yo, yo, when it's bright and sunny, do I need to fish deeper? And when it's over, cast fish shower because of muskies eyes are very sensitive. Light. I understand what you guys. Are. Saying, you know, he goes on. He says some funny stuff, but yes, that is the core of the matter. Brighter, deeper, shallower. Excuse me. Brighter it is, Jay:. The deeper we fish. Yeah, the dammer it is the shallowly fish in general. I mean, you have this thing, we're just talking about. Early season stuff where thermal energy can overcome light penetration in some capacity. Right, Matt? I've been fishing the meat grinder and the tailgater.
Steven:
Both.
Steven:
It's on a straight retrieve. What do you reckon? OK, done, Jay:. I just said it. Don't treat the meat grinder or see me. Don't treat the tailgater like. Yeah, don't do that. Rip, stop, rip, stop. Treat it like a bulldog. Treat it like a jerk bait. That would be my. Take. There particularly made for heavy cover. Right. Particularly made for, you know, rocky conditions, shallow conditions, things of that nature. We kind of covered it. I I didn't need another. Colorado Blade Spinner Bay. I need something that helicopter to have balance way. So it it's the fall off. So you have the front or excuse me the the. Willow Blade on the back. Yep, this kind of match with that Colorado Blade where you're going to rip it and it's going to fall in a measured right. So rip, pull, rip, pull, rip, pull, rip, pull. That is the game there, right? So. Sorry, this is funny. Mr. Melby asked if I'll do next level muskie fishing as a bedtime story. For those that can't read Jerry, you got to do that. We.
Jay:
Not a bad.
Steven:
Idea very soon here. Yeah. All right, Sam, I'm looking for top water presentations for my first trip to Canada. What seems to be the best top water for Canadian muskies?
Jay:
Didn't say what time of the year he's going.
Steven:
Though no I I mean in general for my my my brain is, is is once we're postponed, you can get away with some stuff up there. I like walk the dog in Canada. Always have, always will. I fault me if I'm wrong, but you know Bucher has made a career out of the top rater. Functional top waters for candle. Let's put it that way. I think the fish on. Eagle. Really like like X stuff. I think Joe Boucher has dominated, undeniably on like the woods, right? So a top rater seems to be the soup de jour. I mean, I've seen it a million times where, you know, I might throw a Tomb Raider and somebody throwing a fat bee behind me. And they draw them up. I don't know. I mean. There's a different sound. I think there's a seasonality to it. I think the more commotion, I mean, I'm not going to come out opening weekend or Canadian Open and throwing a cannonball. Right.
Jay:
Which is a.
Steven:
Big thing. Yeah. Which is a big thing. But dude, by the middle of July, I'll throw cannonball Junior. In Canada, right AIDS or the JB Rattler is putting weight in front of them or jamming my rods in the water.
Jay:
MHM. Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Right. If you've got a nine foot rod and five foot 5 foot of it's in the water in a short line, it's not running that high. Right where I would say if we're looking for generality. A mid depth Bay. I've done tremendously well 10 inch headlocks and depth raters up north, right? That's a pretty rock solid thing. But if I'm there's not a give me. I don't. I I I'd hate to say like, this is the bait, right? It's not going to work you around so, but seasonally rattle traps, blades. Early season, we get into July and things are. We're definitely posted. On. I would say the the the hierarchy would be a 10 inch headlock baby Dr. standard depth rater. Then we get in the fall. We talk about like Jim Stewart loves jerk trolling. That works very well. Whereas maybe your bigger presentation like a 12 inch headlock or 12 inch matlock's not that bad. So you've got to play the season out. There's not going to be like this. One beta drag around always get strikes right. Ohh goodness, let's do one more. It's a long day, Jay:.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
You know. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. You know, you're just, just, freaking sometimes, Jay:. You know what I'm saying? Banner.
Jay:
I hear you knocking.
Steven:
Steve, hi. Freaking, OK, this. You know, what do you do? I hear you knocking, but you can't come in.
Jay:
You end with a good one. You you end with a good one, a boomer.
Steven:
How a boomer let me find what brand what brand of Ranger boat do you prefer? I'm sick. I'm getting us gracious. I'm a moron, guys. I'm. Jay:, it's not even Pepsi's this week. It is just just life that's got me just life.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker
That happens.
Jay:
Alright. Yeah, one more, here we go.
Steven:
This is Richard. Richard **** Stemke memorial account. Sorry, that's that's why I picked that one of the questions.
Jay:
Right. **** Stemke gets mentioned on the Northwoods log sauce too, which is very well.
Steven:
Done asking should be. Yeah, absolutely. Classic question. Here we go folks. One, rod, one real. I'll just paraphrase it, just read it. I can buy one rod, one reel. What's the setup? Jay: have had it.
Jay:
For a casting platform, obviously 9 foot shield rod, heavy power. Drinks 400. Yeah, done.
Steven:
I love my TW's, right. I'm. I'm actually really excited. We're about to unveil in the big rubber video we're working on right now. The big dial A5, right?
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
So got this thing dialed in but.
Jay:
Right, that's true, yeah.
Steven:
We've talked about it before. Tranks 400 I'm talking. I'm spending my hard earned money. Tranks 400. Or a Kumiko Moto. Both are great. I like the beast. No worries. But like I got a one and done right. The wifes gonna shoot me in the head Jay:. Shield Rod 9 foot heavy, Tranks or Komodo. I love the TW. I love the pro wrecks. I've been throwing them. Great. They're wonderful reels. But just reels that have a ton of. Dialed in history, right? I'm just trying to shoot straight as I as I can. They haven't changed the tranks much in the Komodo, that stainless steel and stainless steel gear ratio thing they got going on a six, three, I'd say that. Get a six, three to one. If you got one set. Up right. We know this. If we listen to the podcast, let me do one more here hearing.
Speaker 5
Then.
Steven:
How do we approach structure fishing as we transition into the warmer water period? When do Muskies make the fricking? This guy's already thinking ahead. We've done too many podcasts. Window. Must he make the transition from the shallows? To the open water and the break lines falling forage. And how do we follow them?
Steven:
Thank you.
Steven:
We got Jay:. They're alive out there. They're not just mouth breathers. These people are thinkers and God bless. You we love.
Jay:
You absolutely.
Steven:
It's happening already. So every system, here's my thought. Every LEGO's got its monster. That's a Joe boosterism, right? It is, Jay:. We've done the Northwoods things a couple of times. Have we pulled the monsters out of a couple lakes that don't have monsters?
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Yeah. Using structure as our guide, let's true. Right, the the the UM, we'll call it Mr. Ed's the one like, right. I'm talking about. Mr. Ed was a what?
Speaker 2
Mr. Ed.
Jay:
Was a hand on him.
Steven:
What was Mr.
Jay:
Ed. He was. Ohh yeah. OK.
Steven:
Yeah. Thank you.
Jay:
Got you. Yeah. No. OK.
Steven:
Burn. You're burning a little hot tonight, Jay:, but that leg. Structural fish over the one major finger. The one major bar in the. Whole. Leg right? Yeah. Or the one with with GM and MG, the One Creek channel or you know what I'm saying? Like all these different things where you go, whoa, this is just continual. Reiteration that structure matters for big fish. So. Every lake has its giant. Every like has mature muskies. The size class will vary in some capacity, but a giant for one like might be 45. And a giant for another might be, you know, 55, it doesn't matter. The adult muskies weren't are not gonna linger super shallow for very long. You'll find this thing where? OK, they come in, they do their spun and. They're. Out they recuperate a little bit, but they're only recouping for small amounts of time. This was thing the outside trolling thing. Where they don't come in and spawn and then stay there the entire time. They go linger on the outside edge. They go linger on the edge of the literals, and they move in when needed, right? Jay:, what is logically right? If there's any value in this episode? What are the shallows provide in the early season to Muskies?
Jay:
In the early season they they provide spawning grounds, they provide the food.
Steven:
And. Then right, which is systemic of it being what warmer correct?
Jay:
Warmer and it's drawn in the bait fish and hence they're spawning in there. So so easy food nearby.
Steven:
Right. What are the depths provide?
Jay:
Cover.
Steven:
Not not where? No, that's not. Not where I'm going so it.
Jay:
Safety. What are the depths provide early season?
Steven:
Stability. Right. Spring and fall are seasons of fluctuation. Right short days. Wide variance. So. My my, my theory, my treatise on this has been this for a long time. It works for me. You know, your results may vary. The old adage with Muskies and what everybody thinks in the sport is all Muskies go shallow. And spawn and they stay there to recoup. That's great. I don't sit at the Chinese buffet until I'm hungry again. I should. But you know the old joke. You're oh, you eat. You eat too much. You leave, right? That's probably racist. But then it's old. You remember that there's some comedian, but you know you you can't. You can't clock in at the Chinese buffet at 11:00 AM. And leave at 10 when they shut down, they'll ask you to leave, right? Asked this anago sea pig, she'll tell you. But umm.
Jay::
Umm.
Steven:
A big, musky, mature muskies going to make moves, and it's going to make a move and shallow when the time is right to spawn. When things are perfect is when big, big, big fish spawn, right? And most people don't. Rather, they spawn at night, Jay:. That's a whole other animal. So they make the move in, they do their business and they move to the outside edge. They move in during certain periods of the day. Typically the middle of the day and the worst part of the year are swimming in the shallows when things are warming. Not the warmest part of the year, but when when the spring post spawn zone, we're about to hit for for Minnesota. This constant and Candace subsequently. They'll move in, they'll do their business. Eat a couple of things. They'll go off the outside edge. They don't linger there all day long, just like structurally. They don't linger in the shallows the entire time. Why would the rules be broken? For a a 90 day period, right. So 1/3 of the year, they never leave the shows, but the rest of the year they make a living by moving and moving out, moving and moving out. Why eat and then stay somewhere that will Jack your metabolism? If that was the case, 100% of the Muskies in any given body water would be in. Theoretically, 5% of the water. If that was the case, the catch ratio for early season Muskie fishing would be insane.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
You see where I'm going.
Jay:
Yeah. Let's see what you got.
Steven:
That daddy. Just get up there, throw a small bait, burn it. Do your thing. Get in the shallow zone. Musky on in. Why does it take? You know, half a day to get 3. Small ones or why doesn't everybody catch the biggest fish in the system every spring? Why does not every lake give up a 4 footer or bigger every post spawn? You know, if that was the case, let's say a muskie has I'm talking about my my keister right now. Let's say we got 100 acre leg Jay:. That's tiny, right?
Jay:
Small leg. Yep.
Steven:
But I got 100 muskies one, one per.
Speaker
Huh.
Steven:
Well, 100 Acre Lake, how many? How many we're talking about earlier, it's all the same conversation. A lake at that size, when we fish, some of them, they're going to have one nursery, right? I'm thinking of Mr. Ed. You know, the nursery on Mr. Ed, the lake, we. Fish, it's obvious. Here's a big bowl basin. It's got a weedy point. It's got a Back Bay and it's got the nursery, there's no doubt. Every muskie should be there for an extended period of time. They should all be caught. They should all see the pressure of season opener and the rest of the summer should be impossible to catch them because they've seen a baby. They've seen a presentation and they're freaked out. If we believe in conditioning, that's not the case. People don't come up gangbusters in the early year where, let's say, in that 100 acre lake, we got 100 Muskies, only 10% are lingering at any given time. You know, if a 50 inch Muskie moved in and it ate the calories it needed. Why would it change his entire developmental strategy? By staying somewhere to metabolize faster. And that's been the adage, right? I'm going to eat and then wanna stay in the showers to metabolize faster, recoup faster. It plays to some extent, right? But why not eat and move somewhere that's just moderately different? Right. If the metabolism rate is based on ambient water temperature and we, let's say I'm talking on my keister here again, it's 65 and the ultimate shallows and it's 60 on the first break. What's more comfortable? That's where my head goes. Right. Are they gonna break all the rules for 60 days, 90 days? Or are they going to adhere to what works best for them in general, which is move in, eat, recoup, move in, eat, recoup, right. It's a truncated experience during the spawn and post spawn. But it is a matter of we just eat and we stay, shell, we we stay shallow we. Eat and we stay shallow. That's where my heads up we go. No, dude. I personally believe they eat and they move at the outside break where it's and I'm not talking 30s. I'm talking big ones. They come in, they spawn, they do a little bit of eating, they move out, they do a little eating, move out a little bit, move out little bit, move out. And until they're back to full string. That's why throwing that outside edge while approaching that in a different methodology, because like I said in in in theoretically opening week in every mosque should be caught. If they adhere to like kind of the dogma of what the sport is, they're all there. If they're all there, won't we catch them all? Why is Muskie season not four weeks long? Three weeks long. You know, on these big Minnesota lakes. You should be able to throw every read and catch one every 10 casts. If that was the truth. You know, for the amount of fish that are and if you look at. It like. That would add. About, you know, 10% of the fish or 90% of the lake or what? Well, if we if we truncate a lake down to. Completely the shallowest edge there is, where all the muskies are on the shallowest edge there are. During that period, wouldn't it make sense the angler contact was through the roof in their early season?
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
It's not. You know it's not. A lot of people struggle people, fish tournaments earlier and kept suspend those while they suspended. They're all supposed to be shallow the whole time. Huh. You see what I'm saying? Where I go, the old adage is get shallow throw shallow, stay shallow. Well. My definitely.
Speaker 5
Hello.
Jay:
Yeah, the the old adage is you can't catch what isn't there most of the time they're.
Steven:
MHM. Not well, but if and that's what I'm saying. Yeah. If they were there.
Jay:
They move in, they move out so.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
It will be huge. Anyway, Jay:, I'm a moron and. That's it. Very. I'm very tired folks. Just just print it on a shirt. Anyway. Jay:bird, say goodnight.
Jay:
And that's a wrap.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jay:
Thanks, guys. Good night.
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