Musky 360 Podcast
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 260: Never Ending Musky Fall
Transcript:
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast at Jaybird. Have you hung your Turkey? By the the fire with cares and that is that what we're supposed to you're going to be doing?
Jay:
That's one of the holidays coming up, Steve and by.
Jay:
The way I said. The cookie is in the. Yeah, it's all.
Steven:
I'll say the.
Jay:
Another week.
Steven:
I'll say the minocqua choice of sacrifice is coming. I believe, right? Isn't that the other holiday you celebrate there where you you guys choose a tribute.
Jay:
Yeah. The last couple of years has been musky, suckers.
Jay:
But this year, it's.
Steven:
Gonna be a Turkey. OK. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Jay:
It's gonna sacrifice something, baby.
Steven:
The. Quarter quell, if you will folks, so. This Jay, what is going on around the shop other than freaking it is not cold. I just talked to Josh Krieger. We'll talk to him in a second on the podcast, but it ain't cold yet, baby. But people still going in, you seeing you seeing the best of the North Woods. Roll in some. I know I'm hearing about big fish. Get caught.
Jay:
- Do you?
Steven:
What are you here? What's the? What's the vibe? What's the skin in vegan? What's the skin?
Jay:
Yep, yeah, yeah.
Jay:
Sucker Fish has.
Jay:
Been really good. So I mean, everything's still open, you know, and everything will be open for a while. We got some colder weather coming towards Thanksgiving or later this next week, but it's not going to walk up lakes. Anytime soon. So.
Steven:
No.
Jay:
Quite a few of the ******** people still fishing and pretty happy about it and getting a few fish. I haven't heard anything. I haven't heard reports from Friday. You know, it was full moon and everything and. I haven't heard much.
Steven:
And we we had some, I was swinging the bat this week and it was pretty interesting. I mean it, it's just it isn't, you know. You said it last week. Say it again. Don't don't fish the calendar, fish the conditions, you know, whatever. What it does just because it says. What is it? Today's the 17th. I cannot believe it.
Jay:
Yes, OK.
Steven:
Yeah, it's like freaking. I woke up and it was June. Maybe it's just age. Maybe it's just age. You go. What do you know going into it? You did say. I can't believe it, guys. We. I thought we had wrapped up the comings and the goings at the Muskie shop, but yet again you got the slammer 9 inch. I think you mentioned it last week, but you there's a sign up on there now.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
So if you're a slammer aficionado, if.
Jay:
Yeah, this is cool. Yeah. I I threw it. I trolled quite a bit over the summer. Got some protos in of the year. So just got a video up today or yesterday on the 9 inch Slammer. Mental. Really cool wobble. I mean, the thing almost it, it goes left to right while it's going side to side. It's like all Slammers, single, super tough, solid plastic, internal harness and everything like that. Toughest nails and the the the key with this is it runs shallower than the 8 inch minnow and shallower than 10 inch minnow. So hence the wobble is different. I think I call a little. Bit more violent wobble. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:
He's got about every size. What's your name? Yeah, it's it's just a staple. You can't go wrong. I'm sure it'll be just another staple in the ****. For everybody there, what else we did this, I believe. Yes. Finally. Because I finally got them. All the photos are up now, boys. So pick your poison if you want to see what they look like. Got a little glitter in the white little glitter in the black. Those are up the disco shed, which is just devastating, is up there. So all the colors that are going to be available at launch or up on that base, you can check them out. I do recommend signing up for.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
The release notification, which should be. Sent out. It's going to be after the. First of the. Year. But you know they're going to, they're going to be hot, hot.
Jay:
That will be the hot days this year.
Steven:
Should have the. Have the let's see here. I don't know if the illustrious. Lister of Things did it here. Will shortly have, I will remind. One of the people here that lives in my house that we need to put the replacement tails. So there's. Hey, let me call you right back. Jay. We got somebody lined up for the show, baby. Oh, goodness. On the other line, how you just beeped in. I was talking to Jay and. Here we are. I'm talking to my good friend Cody Noggle. Ohh my goodness man. We just fished together. We had some Donkey Kong action, didn't we, buddy?
Jay:
Beautiful animals.
Steven:
Beautiful animals everywhere was beautiful animals. They were animals, you know, in the net, out of the net around the boat we had a we had a hook there. Man got got to hit, hit the water. Here and interesting guy, we're going to be able to kind of lean on. Here is a resource. You know, we're always hearing about Northwoods or Canada, this stuff you hear a little bit of at the South from me, Cody's right there in Central PA man, where are you fishing? What's going on like kind of what's what's your your range that you're kind of hitting that area?
Jay:
All pretty well for me, if anybody's familiar with Middletown, where TMI is in Pennsylvania. Mm-hmm. Clear from there. Clear to the West Branch. All of the junior add up to Raystown Lake and clear to Williamsport. There's a big range.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Big water and Susquehanna and tight water in the Juniata.
Steven:
Yeah. And you? You ain't afraid to keep the tires hot, and you know, I know.
Jay:
You know, we got. We gotta. We gotta keep them moving so.
Steven:
The water's really here. We can catch. Catch them. What? What? What's kind of going on there right now? And I'm hearing from everybody, obviously you know the North Woods, it's warmer than usual, it's warmer than usual for me. Is that holding true where you're at?
Jay:
Which one and we are in a drought, the. Waters are low.
Steven:
Yeah. And you said, what was the junior addict you said?
Jay:
That that makes it tricky sometimes.
Steven:
You said like, what is it genetic? You said it's just parts that are just way too low to even do anything in.
Jay:
A jet, right? You can't even launch the bait. Sometimes in some of the launches, I mean. It's it's low. But if you can't get out, obviously I don't have anywhere to go. Like you said, they're not in the woods.
Steven:
You know. They. So it's and it, you know, you and I were talking just on the boat. Here in in Gavin about we've been friends for a long time and. It's one of these deals where where, you know, Cody's obviously dialed in on pocket pools, eddies, you know, the in shallow waters, they're going to take advantage of what depths they have in a system, you know, that's down when you're suffering from a drought like that, you know, do you find that that that they're packed even tighter? If you can accept if it's accessible.
Jay:
If it's accessible, absolutely.
Steven:
You know.
Jay:
You you better not stoop them. That's one thing I can say you need to approach them correctly and you need to be very tactile in what you do.
Steven:
Right. Would it be completely because just because the water, yeah, well, good.
Jay:
It's so low. It's so clear. You don't leave still.
Steven:
And.
Jay:
Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. Whenever the waters are low, it's still, I mean, you you got to be very, very tactile. And how you do it.
Steven:
Well, again comparison, do you? What? What? How? Like, let's say you're you're. Let's take away the the the. The simply the drought stage, but you know, it's obviously going to vary all the time. Rivers have the tendency to do that obviously. How are you trying to approach some of these holes or some of these slack water areas? What are you doing to kind of go in on stealth mode? Like what's the process to get dialed in on that?
Jay:
So I made my eddies. I'm in the. Pocket spools like you said. I'll sit there in the current scene to start. I'll sit there on the current scene on the. The flow of that river right where the antenna is. I'll sit there right on that currency. And this troll sit there and just stay in. Stay in.
Steven:
Position stay in position.
Jay:
I will finish that currency until I know nothing's happening and. Then I'll hit the Eddy.
Steven:
Gotcha. OK.
Jay:
As they're sitting there, whenever that orders like that and. I mean, you can then you see the bottom and you can. I mean you can give him a high 5 sometimes if you wanted to. You don't want to get in there too aggressively, too quick. Now exhaust that currency.
Steven:
Just met him, yeah. Jack.
Jay:
Then move into the Eddy. And you pointed it out multiple times before saturation, saturation, saturation and you have to be low and slow because they are tucked to the bottom. There's nowhere else for them to go. They're using one rock, two rocks out of that, 81 down timber out of that Eddy. And that's it. And you need to make some pretty darn good. Passing the trees to get a reaction. Once you do that. It can be getting over now that that that's. Mean it's it can get really good.
Steven:
And and something like that. I I you know, you're talking about your approach and and being stealthy about it and then being smart about it. You know, shallow water snaggy water, right? A lot of times. What? What are you doing to minimize that? Like, are there, are you point like we talk on the podcast all the time buoyant.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
Gates or changing stuff up? Is it spinner based? Because in a system like that, yeah.
Jay:
I mean, you want me to? You want me to give up some dates that I'm using and say maybe 5 feet of water?
Steven:
Go right ahead. But. My only thought is this though is like. You know you you get and and you and I, you know, we're throwing some nasty timber and it's like, you know, if you if you get a bait stuck it's like we have to get this out in this tiniest of ways.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Because there's no, once we go in there. Don't and and like you know, it's like when they sink. If you get stuck, don't set the hook into it. Don't drill it in. We need to just tippy tap it because you can't go surging in there and then restage on like, a pocket. Poor Eddie and think, oh, he's going to eat now. No, you just blew the spot. You know it. It seems like that like.
Jay:
One thing I will say if you can, like you were saying, tip you tap it out of there. Yeah, if you that's back to knowing what you're hitting and it really helps to know what's down there. Yeah. Usually in these shallow waters, like I'm fishing, you can see. MHM. What's there or stream? What's there? Yeah, whatever. Whatever suits your fancy, but you need to understand the difference between a rock, timber and a fish. You just. It just takes it just takes. On the water. And it is difficult at first, but.
Steven:
Right. Yeah. You gotta feel it. Yeah, absolutely. And.
Jay:
Once you get. That dial then. You can start ticking and clicking off. So I mean that is money, absolutely money.
Steven:
What? What's kind of?
Jay:
Hello.
Steven:
Yeah. What's the kind of arsenal for that 5 foot, that skinny water so.
Jay:
I I'm I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting in your madness. What you got to throw one. We'll get. We'll get her. We'll get her. I'm not worried about it, but.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
A shallow a shallow swimming dog. Mm-hmm. And that is that has that belly wobble little attractive, and has that it has it just that action. It's for some reason. My fish level. Mm-hmm. But I will put, I'll run a straight wire leader on that. I do not. Run the floor carbon. And the reason I do that is because I'm kind of killing it and trying to keep it in position as long as I can for them to react. To it and strike.
Steven:
Gotcha. So yeah, you're letting her hanging?
Jay:
Now, if you're talking 5-6. Feet. Every now and then I'll put a. 3/8 and split shot only in front of that leader right in front of that bait or on. The end of the leader right in. Front of the bait just to give it a little, it just gives it a little bit. MHM. More belly wobble. Gives it a little bit more action. And you can get down there a little bit more and stay in my face, but it's not inhibiting anything. It's actually I think it is actually doing better for the wait and in my circumstance at least.
Steven:
Right. Right. Well, that's the thing though. If you if when you're dealing with actually the flow of a river actually augments how a bait runs, you know it's it's growing up, growing up fishing, you know, small rivers and creeks and streams.
Jay:
Ohh absolutely.
Steven:
And you know, and and he always I mean that's half the reason I just tweak the heck out of Bates at this point because you can well, yeah, that might work in a lake, but I need it to do XY and Z, you know.
Jay:
You better keep that current in your favor and that's that's back to positioning on the bottom of that, Eddy, where I am on the current stream.
Steven:
Yeah. Keep the current you're fed. Yeah. And that's the thing.
Jay:
And it it that's that's. Where you have to start.
Steven:
Right, you can't. And it's one of those deals where you can't necessarily like cast past it and bring it up. The current is. Driving your baits up at times. You know, if it doesn't have a diving lift.
Jay:
Oh yeah. I mean or even if you get a current like you don't know there's a current change going in the back of that and you're sitting a little too low your boat screw or your bait screwed as soon as you hit the fencing. If you're if you're not set up right. I mean, yeah, you're going to be better. You're going to come up sideways and you're going to be at.
Steven:
I'm sorry it already has.
Jay:
The surface before you know it.
Steven:
Right. And then and the but it?
Jay:
And then you might have had.
Steven:
Just wholly ineffective.
Jay:
A follower or two. And you made the same cast five times. Well, there goes your shot.
Steven:
Right. They're they're they're over at that point with with that shallow water. Are you throwing blades? Are you throwing spinner blades at? All. To crawl over stuff or what other stuff or. What do you focus on it?
Jay:
Winter days more so like. Uh, after spot like after, I know that they're active in spot after we're done. Spalling after I know they're active again and then three fall. I mean, obviously this is weird. It's still we're a month behind. It seems like the.
Steven:
Yeah. Right. I want me to tell him to say pretty last three weeks. Yeah, it's goofing.
Jay:
I will definitely throw a meat grinder even in that state. A city of eight at night, also a 88. And obviously they're staged a little differently in the evenings and the night. But I mean, I'll. I'll definitely try and get down there with the meat grinder whenever summertime in the waters like this too, because we went through this year, we had two major floods and it was low in between.
Steven:
In that. Everything else, let me ask you this just in that. That area, you know, Pennsylvania obviously has had Muskies for eons and. When you see a flood stage come through, let let let me let me even preface it like this. Let's say you you you're you're dialed in in the spring, right? OK. This stretch of river tends to hold fish and I'm having action in XY and Z, whatever that might be right. When a flood comes through, do you see this? This, this staging where they're. That change or do you? You know, I'm saying in. That environment, OK.
Jay:
They're not necessarily the the Eddies and the pools, they just get tighter because of the flow of current.
Steven:
They just hunker down and don't move.
Jay:
So that ending just gets tighter, even though the water is higher and it looks like there's a lot of stuff going. And Eddie's just tighter.
Steven:
OK, I just cause some system.
Jay:
And you got to get deep into that, Eddy. And if you can keep your. Base there you're gonna have.
Steven:
Luck I just asked because some systems it's like ****, they go away and it's like, OK, it's almost like a complete reorganization of things. And that's where it went.
Jay:
Yes, see here that that that does. Not happen with us.
Steven:
Good, that's.
Jay:
That does that does not happen up here, and that is the one thing that I can lean on kind of with. I'm kind of confused or whatever.
Steven:
Yeah, right. Yeah. The flood. A flood just came. What do I do? You gonna tell you? Yeah, you.
Jay:
I have involved with this. Gotta tell it into. That Eddy and just. Take apart that Eddie and if you can keep your boy.
Steven:
There now is it like for you Twitch baits like because I think shell I want to think cranes. I think Slammers, I think you know shallow Raiders you know small twitch baits is that money where you're at or what is is there ever a time or place or. Yeah, great. Thanks.
Jay:
Some of my biggest.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
There is a time and a place, though. Yeah, I will run as deep as I can and try and take her off some of these and pools if you if you got a big long St. that's a half mile long, that's a whole different ball game, but that's 100. I mean you, you got, you got to know where.
Steven:
Right. Right, right.
Jay:
That's at and that's already got. The crap beat out of. It this summer, but I mean I'll. Heavy glide bait, a heavy glide bait right there to stick it in there. Or twitching a shallow invader. Just something to keep it in their face as long as you possibly can. And fight the current. Not even fight the current, but avoid the current. And. And that's one of those things that for a lot of guys that don't and a lot of.
Steven:
You know Upper Midwest guys just don't fish rivers. They simply don't where you go. The concept being different, there might be two muskies in a 5 foot wide area. And the fight is not. About getting a follow because it's not going to happen. The fight is about getting him to come off. The bottom just smash it most of the time.
Jay:
Every action putting it in the right. Place or I mean that stuff out of.
Steven:
And I'm not a trout angler, but if you can, if you if ever say fly fish for trout, here comes the here comes the fly over a rock and the trout comes up and grabs it and goes back down. That's how a lot of swift River Muskies act. They come up the grip.
Jay:
And I was just thinking about this last night too, yes. Basically, if you're in a shallow river or. Picture it in your head. Make a trout stream. Yeah, just just scale it up. Just scale it up. Me. They're gonna be sitting behind their now. Most of us and fish trout. They're going to be sitting in the same place as the trout. Where if you just scale it up and you want. How are?
Steven:
You they do the same Sir. Where? The way I. The way I have fish trout, I don't know where I can get canned corn. Big enough for a muskie.
Jay:
Let's let's really start eating other things that.
Steven:
To go dip different trout, different trip power, right? OK, we need power bait. And we need corn. We need extra.
Jay:
Are let's when.
Jay:
We start using other things. We got tricks for that. If you need a softball sized power bait, you know don't get you. No, no, don't don't.
Steven:
Soft possess power. OK. Yeah. No, not not good advice. That would be hilarious. Just don't you gotta football.
Jay:
Take that advice. I don't do. Do. Do that. Somebody will get one on that too right here.
Steven:
As like I have here, I'll get an e-mail.
Jay:
I see the jar out. Yeah, it's got.
Steven:
You boys are laughing at it, but I got a 48 by 32 on garlic scent power beat.
Jay:
3/3 with the trouble on the.
Steven:
Back of the power beatbox and loved. It worked, it worked, but now it's conceptual like you're saying is is. It's not that dissimilar where they're going to use the the either the current to hold them down behind a rock, because if you look, if you look at the more foggier Muskies head and I think I've mentioned in the past, but.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
It. Doesn't matter, it's a slope. It's a scoop. To the top of the to the top of the skull, and that will grab water and shove them down. Brown inner river.
Jay:
Or stage to watch. They they stage themselves to watch. Yeah. And if if they can get out of the car, obviously they don't want their calories. They don't wanna do anything. They don't have to do until they actually want to.
Steven:
Right. And it's just that.
Jay:
You need to make. It as easy. As possible, make sure it is a big. Trout stream make it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
As easy as possible for them, whenever they do decide to react, if you bring your mate right in front of the right. In front of. Your face. I mean, they're they're they're being. They don't have a choice.
Steven:
Yeah, that's what they're there. To do do you find? And. So you know it's it's for, for example, say fishing on a lake, right and non rest or just a lake, you know, typically in prime time you'll find that the, say, the muskie in off the rocks or the weed bed in the right covering structure he's a little bit more active than the. Deep fish, right? But do you find in the in the same thought process? We find that the fish that's in a in a hole in a pool, right? Is that fish less app to buy than one you can find that's staged behind a rock in swift current like is the swift water fish more apt to eat because he staged there, they will be way more reactionary.
Jay:
Later.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
Because if you bring it by there fit in that swift current and the stage behind the rock as you. Were saying how? They stage themselves to deplete energy, right? They will hit that thing way quicker on a reactionary strike than something that's sitting in the ready.
Steven:
Right cause it's coming over there to go. I got. I've got a millisecond to decide.
Jay:
Yeah, that's that's all it is. And they make their decisions and it's usually pretty good if you.
Speaker
Next.
Jay:
If you bring. It by your face. You.
Steven:
Are you trying to cross the current? Are you trying to go with or against the current like? As far as.
Jay:
It's it's too high, I will not. Cross it, God. Dates just don't run right? I cannot present to them correctly. I will if current is high and I have to do that. I will bring it downstream with the current.
Steven:
With the current makes sense, let it hang and.
Jay:
If you're facing upstream, you're trolling. Just keeping your boat straight upstream and just slowly floating down. I will keep that bait coming with the current. Yeah, if there is. Any serious amount of current and that that does work. I mean that just keeps your stuff, not getting fouled up. It just it just changes it time for you're sitting there trying to fight current. You're not. You're you're facing the.
Steven:
Right, right. And you just have to at least.
Jay:
Wrong thing, you're.
Steven:
You're fighting.
Jay:
Trying to catch this. You're not trying to fight.
Steven:
Yeah. And that's The thing is, is a constant eye and something you and I talked about on the boat over few days. We're fishing here recently which.
Speaker
The.
Steven:
Focus the The, the, the the boat control, yes, is extremely important. The boat control needs to be your platform for proper presentation. And absolutely the whole focus on am I negatively or positively impacting how this bait is running and when you add in river current, it's a the the, the the dichotomy, the the importance of this is so much more, yeah little bit different so.
Jay:
This is holding.
Steven:
Moving on from that, you know we're we're getting into this. It's supposed to be cold. Apparently it's not. You're you're a hunter as well. You're talking about the ruts, not even happening with with deer and whatnot. And we're a little bit behind here, barrel. And you know, it should be a bloodbath on the interstates right now. It should be.
Jay:
Barely. Barely.
Steven:
Just deer everywhere.
Jay:
It's kicking up. I did see a couple more gears and I didn't see coming down, but there there was only little things. We're we're still, we're still waiting on that change.
Steven:
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that. But you know, you're gearing up. Pennsylvania is one of those places where you can target year round. And you know, with that when when it's going to be the prime time for somebody to get with you there, when's like when you're like, OK, we're gonna get in front of some serious fish and this is gonna be. Yeah. Yeah, that's.
Jay:
Oh, absolutely. As soon as we get rain, as soon as I can get some. Rain in the. River. And then it's it's game over. I already know where they're.
Steven:
It's game room.
Jay:
At, I mean it's it's night.
Steven:
It get get it lined up.
Jay:
And that's when we start getting into them, the smaller rubbers. And whatnot and like. We maybe talk later in the day so I can store that one out there to help some people. That helps.
Steven:
Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's that's helpful. You know, change the.
Jay:
Blue dogs just seem to not work as well. That top loading the goose and getting it down there in your face so you're not hanging up with the other cast that I. Can definitely do some numbers.
Steven:
Yeah, get down there.
Jay:
I'll just toss that one.
Steven:
Out there for everybody. Well, Kerry, how how? What's the best way? There's you care if I give out your phone number if people get a hold of you, the one going to.
Jay:
Up. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Just that straight call. Preferably call. If I don't answer, just little wasting. I'll get back to you.
Steven:
I have to meet me and Cody's. A great guy. It is 717-585-9359. Again, the number to call for Cody and uncle in Central PA is 717-585-9359. Long distance charges may apply.
Jay:
1/7.
Steven:
Sorry, no, it it's to call me.
Jay:
Ah, we keep it silver around. Here we keep it silver.
Steven:
And it's a. Cool opportunity. I mean, I know a lot of people are, you know, always thinking about rivers. And I know you're a heck of a river angler man. Be a cool trip for somebody. We'll check in on it. Definitely is, of course, of the winter here and it's great resource to have another little region. Covered there. So we'll check in and thanks for being on.
Jay:
Sure, bud sounds good. Appreciate you take.
Steven:
What do you think, Jay Bird, you geared up. You you, you think in shallow water? Now that guy knows you stuff. Yeah, man. You're your your river dude yourself. And a lot of the lot of the stuff. Yeah. What do you do? Sometimes your license plate says river dude.
Jay:
That was awesome. Yeah, pretty cool.
Jay:
Sometimes.
Jay:
Love it. How would RVD do you like? Yeah, yeah, there's not enough room on a normal place. It's all like different, you know, like symbols. And you're like, two people get it. The rest are like. River made for.
Steven:
What does that mean? And you've told them both? River. My numbers over over. Dude, you always will be. Always has been. Now you know it's interesting to hear. Hear about other things, Jay and you know. Yeah. So you're going from there and speaking about other things. If we're doing it, might as well. Let's let's just find out the lay of the.
Jay:
Oh yeah. Yeah. Not.
Steven:
Man here.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Let's call Freddy. Let's do it. What do you think? Absolutely. Well, what would fall be like without bothering Freddy? Freddy, how goes it? My. Friend.
Speaker 4
It's going good, friend catching some fish.
Steven:
Still, fishing, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 4
It is for November 17th, absolutely.
Jay:
Hi.
Steven:
Now I I talked to Krieger, talked to buddy in PA this week. It's bizarre, you know everybody, but you're able to capitalize, man. How's the
Speaker 4
Like man, it's been, it's been fairly good. I mean having opportunities, I don't know. Out of my. Last four trips I've had opportunities, multiple opportunities in each trip. We put some fish in the put, you know, put fish in the boat.
Steven:
Nice.
Speaker 4
Every trip out of the last four guide.
Steven:
That's all you can.
Jay:
Do.
Steven:
Can't, can't ask, can't ask for more than that? I asked Craiger this earlier. Well, he'll be later on the show by talking to him before I called you. But how late are you going to go? What?
Speaker 4
So that's all we can do.
Steven:
Thought.
Speaker 4
Well, my boat's not put away yet. It just depends on weather and you know, I mean, I'm gonna I'm.
Jay:
Right.
Speaker 4
Gonna lose my boat out till. I can't put it in somewhere.
Jay:
You.
Steven:
Yeah, just be down. Are you fishing? What, like, what's your game plan right now? You fishing big water, small water. What's kind of the thought of, like, OK, you're trying to get some of these mid, mid November going into late November.
Speaker 4
Know when everything falls over.
Steven:
River Muskies is a big water Clearwater, what's kind of. Working for you.
Speaker 4
Ohh it's kind of been tannic. Water for me. I don't. My theory is from some of the people that I've learned some things you know about musky fish, you know, don't leave fish to find fish. So in all honesty, I've been kind of fish in the.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 4
Same. The same lake the last four times. I mean, because all of the. Clients that I've had, they don't care bigger small. They like them all. So that's what my client said the other day. So.
Steven:
How come you can't go big or small? You like them all? Yeah. It can't go wrong there and you know. Which, if you know, I know you're getting for some good ones now. You called me the other day and you had a bizarre catch. What's going on?
Speaker 4
So I was with my my two clients and I fished with for two days. And we're we were halfway through the the day and we fished this one Bay, we'll call it Johnson Bay. We come out of it out. Of Johnson Bay.
Steven:
Ah.
Jay:
And.
Speaker 4
All sudden my clients like look at that. Bobber right there. Like Oh yeah, yeah. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a straight bobber, and so around.
Jay:
Yeah, right.
Speaker 4
The middle of the lake and.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 4
Also, when I start driving towards it and it starts going down, I'm like what the heck I'm like, well, there's a fish on it, you know, no one, no one, no one. Else. On the lake all day. Right. So it's like, what the heck, yeah. So we get up to it, and here someone's lying snapped and the bottle was still attached. And I would assume that the fish. Probably just buried down and went to the bottom when they lost the fish when those people. Lost the fish and all of a sudden here there's like a 3738 inch musky on the end of it on a sucker. And I I it was kind of crazy. I mean, I I'm young in the in. The guiding industry. In the world.
Steven:
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 4
Quite bizarre. I mean I I've so I called every person I know and I've come across some people that I've seen it, but they've never actually caught up to.
Steven:
Ah.
Speaker 4
The fish to and got him off and.
Steven:
And got him.
Speaker 4
He swam away. So let's keep our fingers crossed that he's.
Jay:
OK, I got.
Steven:
Is it?
Speaker 4
To flush the rug out of his. Mouth.
Steven:
Is it a catch? I mean, that's the question. It's funny. It's like you go. Hmm. I know, auntie. I know.
Speaker 4
I'm not going to that side of the fence, but they they were looking the muskie guys were looking down on me because later that day we had been blank. The first part of the day and then later that day my client caught a 40 incher on a cracking with.
Steven:
Nice.
Speaker 4
With the Y with glove tail. Yep, we have the Grove hit bottom making contact because a lot of fish seem to be on the bottom right, making contact and popping up, popping up and snapping.
Steven:
What good always turn to grab just what was he ripping or what was he doing? Uh-huh. Not pop nice, two Bish or RIP fish. Was he like? Sideways or up and down.
Speaker 4
Up and up and down.
Steven:
Up and down. Very nice. And that big, that big tail. I mean, I'm the grub kind of style that's.
Speaker 4
It throws so much water.
Steven:
Throws a ton of water. Just.
Jay:
I mean, sorry.
Speaker
I'll be.
Steven:
I'll be honest with you, I've I've been fishing and you know colors. That's not a color thing. But I love that walleye. It's obviously I painted it. Of course, like it, it's kind of my fave, and I've been doing the grub tail pretty similar. And just like pop and just let it just let it hang extra extra hang because it's it's grab, it grabs a lot of water and it just is like a huge visual, you know, it's I'm with you. That's cool, man. That's funny. But that at least you got that fish saved. That's that's cool, you know, you know.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. And and then we were then. We were blessed a little bit later. And we got. A. A 42 1/2 inch muskie for a man not a sucker. So that was that.
Steven:
Hey. What's this? What's this sucker you.
Speaker 4
Was a good day. I like running the 12 to 14 inches.
Steven:
Yeah. Go, go big or go home.
Speaker 4
You know nothing too much, so you know, I mean some of the. Ones we got. Inside the shop are, you know, 16 to 20. I mean, for crying out loud. I could cripple them.
Steven:
He could ride him. Yeah, ride them to work. Well, that's the thing. We've talked. I've talked about on the show before. Guys are coming. You got any 24 inches or bigger?
Speaker 4
Uh-huh.
Steven:
You're like. No. Why? What? Yeah, they're going. They're going over to Wildcat with a 24 inch sucker, you know.
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I the last time. I had one of those Fred. It was like it had me trip. I had a I wouldn't say it's 24. I'd say he's probably like 20, you know, 18 to 20, just a big old beefy son of a gun.
Jay:
3rd.
Steven:
It's like out of the corner of my eye, the rods moving so much I just can't pay attention to anything else because he's just going bananas. You're like they're a fish there now. It's just just the sucker, just we, you know, if you get skunked with the sucker that big, you can just let the clients fight the sucker in, you know what I'm saying? Put a 200 yard.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Steven:
200 feeding blind out there and let the client fight the sucker. Oh, you got one looking there.
Jay:
What? What, what?
Steven:
What kind of staging are you saying? You said you saw some? Fish on bottom. Is that deep? Is that deep under deep? Relative but are. We talking like.
Speaker 4
Probably probably like 20 feet of water. 1718 is where I'm I'm have I got my boat position that I pulled out. I'm kind of bad for them because the Cisco still haven't fully spawned yet and the white, you know, I wasn't fishing a lake that has white fish.
Jay:
- Yes.
Speaker 4
In it. So you know, so. The Cisco still haven't fully spawned. They're starting to this. You can start seeing them sliding up the weight that was on you had Cisco on it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 4
But you can see them starting to slide up. But they're not quite there yet.
Steven:
Yeah, it's, it's that's kind of wacky. I mean, when they do though, watch out, boys, there's going to be some big. Fish caught. You know this this late, this late in the year and they've got, you know it's it's not not hammered down with ice or anything of that nature. So you know the cracking did you get well are you throwing like any Bulldogs any medusas or is it just.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Pretty much thank.
Speaker 4
I was told I was throwing medusas. I was throwing two feet. Tough assault, heels and. The crack and I mean like I kind of have a query like I mean if you catch a fish on something, why change?
Steven:
What you're doing? Yeah, he he didn't go down there and tell his buddies. I didn't. I just didn't know on the on the rubber front. You feel like when it comes from a deuce. What size? Like the the stand like the standard Medusa. Are you going like?
Speaker 4
I checked. You mean no. The regular size or mid? I mean if you know if I.
Jay:
Mid.
Speaker 4
Have it just depends. On the client you know I mean.
Steven:
Right. Well, true. Good point. Yeah.
Speaker 4
You know, I I want them to last all day. My my true theory is if that fish is hungry, it's going to eat whatever you put in front of its face. If it's hungry and it doesn't matter if it's a mid reducer, regular Medusa. A Husky, I mean.
Steven:
Man, I and I think Wisconsin, you know, a lot of times on these bodies of water where you know every every body of water up there has its giant. You know, there's there's there's.
Speaker 4
If you're hungry.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
You know, there's some. There's definitely some 4 footers and 50s and 50 ones and 50 twos lurking around. But I think sometimes if if it got, you can swing for the fences with the mega Monster Medusa. I think if that fish is active, he wants a jerk bait, you're going to be fine with that mid or standard. Yeah, you know, sorry. Yeah, it's it's I. Yeah, I I typically try to save the big boy toys for Canada, you know? And and I was talking last week on the show about my my two pounder I have hanging here that I just it just scares me now I don't want I don't want to throw that any.
Speaker 4
That's that's my. Yep, Yep.
Steven:
Check the clients don't want to throw up. Much less me, yeah.
Speaker 4
Right, exactly. Exactly. I mean, you know, the client I had, you know, I had a a 73 year old man and then a, you know, a 50 year old man so.
Steven:
I I.
Jay:
You know couldn't.
Speaker 4
Really foresee it. You know, I, you know, this was kind of is what? It is, you know, and.
Steven:
Yeah, you can't. You can't. You can't. They don't last long when you got them throwing fricking pounders. You know, it's, it's that. And there's a time and a place, and then the Minnesota guys love those. And there's there's a reason.
Speaker 4
No, no they did not.
Steven:
For it so. Let let let me ask you this and I'll let you go here. But you know. Are you are like with your game plan right now? Is it you think it's going to change at all or like is is things obviously they're going. To have to cool. Off at a certain point, but you know, do you think for the next couple of weeks, does it seem like it's going to be that, that cracking rubber? You know, live baked combo I mean because it doesn't look like there's any major change. You think that still play for a few more weeks?
Speaker 4
I I would think so. I mean from what I saw going under the extended forecast, I would think it's going. To be the same you know.
Speaker
Just.
Speaker 4
I mean, unless if something drastic happens, I mean, we all, they're still talking. Well, 35 for, for for highs up here and going, you know, 3840°. In the next. A week and a half, two weeks, I was just looking at the extended forecast while I was at the. Shop. And you know, it's still right around.
Jay:
20° so yeah, I mean we're.
Speaker 4
Not losing a whole. Lot of water temps I mean.
Steven:
No, you can't. If it if it's 35, it ain't freezing. You know it. It it, it's got it. Gotta get that. Well, let me ask you this. If you've done. Have you been hitting any multi species?
Speaker 4
No, no, it's not. It is not. No, I have not. I have, I've I've kind of thrown in the towel on that.
Jay:
Man.
Steven:
I just didn't.
Speaker 4
For the season.
Steven:
I just didn't know, just from a walleye staging thing. Like what are, what are our croppies vertical right now everywhere it's like.
Speaker 4
Yeah, I would, I would. I would think. I mean, there's still, there's still plenty of fish to be caught and all copies and and and walleyes on that. It's just I have not, I I would say some of that that I would say.
Steven:
You're well. You're dialed on Muskies right now, yeah.
Speaker 4
Right, right. For the walleyes, I'm saying they're gonna be deep and and, you know, you still get them. But you know, you're still probably looking at, you know, 50° water temps for a couple of the lakes or upper 40s, I should say, for a couple of the bigger lakes. You know? Yeah, where I would go.
Steven:
One more question then, so if if the walls are staged deep and you're drunk, you're you're saying you're position 2018 feet and casting in. What? What's the what do you think the forage is that they're hunting down on those edges?
Speaker 4
You know, I'm thinking they're seeing, you know, some some walleyes that are on the outside edges. And I was, I was looking at wide scope and you could see stuff, you know, on the bottom, like, oh, that looks like while I was right there to me, you.
Steven:
Moving up like the teens.
Speaker 4
Know and or perch.
Jay:
Speaker 4
And like I said, some of the you know, some of the systems are kind of sliding up, but they're. Still, you know.
Steven:
Right. It's not. It's not the Cisco. Craziness yet so.
Jay:
Play play.
Steven:
I hear you, man. Well. You know, I've said it a billion times on here. It's like a broken record about being an odd year or a different kind of ball game. But sounds like you're capitalizing on it, Freddy. Guys, if you need something from the shop or trip, call Freddy. Go walk you. Through it so. He's the hardest. Working man in the musky business. So I think Freddy will run a full day guide trip and then work a full day shift. Do you ever sleep, Freddy, have you ever slept before? Is that something you just couldn't do? He's running and gunning me. Well, guys, you could get out there still. I mean, there's still time. Especially got time come around Thanksgiving. Any of the guys on here?
Speaker 4
Very, very seldomly, very seldomly this time of year.
Steven:
Or put you on a fish. But fantastic. Freddie, give him a shout if you have a question about Bates for my favorite people to talk to at the shop. Freddy, I'll give. It to you soon, brother.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Steven. Bye.
Steven:
That's some wild, wacky and wonderful stuff, Jay.
Jay:
Great stories on the water from the man, the myth and the legend.
Speaker 4
On the wire.
Steven:
Palermo. Yes, it's not just pizza, it's Palermo he is. Muscular skill must give rescue and now I was just giving him hell. Everything about call the shop. Let's bother. Just bother Freddie. Like Freddy. I can't make up my mind between these two different split shots. Every question just call and ask for Freddy. It's a it's a hotline at this point, isn't it, Jack? Freddy knows Freddy. Freddy folks. Call the Freddy knows all.
Jay:
Just. He's the heartbeat of the shot, he.
Steven:
Really. Is he? He is the heartbeat of America now. He's a great angler man. He's he's been kicking **** and taking names. He's a grinder. He's he's a grinder, Speaking of grinding.
Jay:
We're still fishing. That's awesome. Well, thank you.
Steven:
Another thing, how I could permit the permit this, should this week everybody's still fishing up there. Wow. So when will it end? Well, really. Really, you don't say? I'll be speaking. I'll be we. We got a hold of Krieger. Why not? I say it with Freddy. We're just going to pick one of his brains up there. Let's see what's cooking, baby. What's cooking? Cool beans.
Jay:
Cool.
Steven:
Alright guys, I've got Josh Krieger, Josh from the North Woods fishing report. All the fun stuff. Up here.
Jay:
It's.
Steven:
You're still fishing somehow. What's going on, man? What are you seeing out?
Jay:
There. Yeah. Hey, Steve. How you doing? Yeah, it's it's been a very, very unseasonably long fall. We're talking, you know, here, November 15th, the full moon in November. And, you know, almost every year the ciscos are spawning.
Steven:
They're good.
Jay:
At that time. And I can tell you right now is on some of these Cisco forge lakes and they're still in 50 to 60 feet tight to the bottom. So we haven't, we haven't gotten to the Cisco spawn water temp. So on average right now, mid 40s, forty 6. So I've seen as one is 48 and again we're we're talking middle of November.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Yeah, dude.
Jay:
And I know I was on buckets hobbin here just yesterday and the water was still green out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. LG. LG Bloom green. Yes. Really. Yeah. And now, I mean, it wasn't like shoot or shoot or dark green or anything. You know, I'm not seeing. It's like the pink LG. But yeah, there was still LG Bloom Green.
Steven:
Like algae, like algae free growing.
Speaker 4
In the water.
Jay:
And and fishing's been super. Here we've had a lot of. Fish lately that have been. Coming and looking at our suckers, but not. Actually willing to. Then I've actually pulled a couple of them off of the suckers by putting bats in front of them and yesterday and booked out and we had about a 4344 inches, 5 debating with weeds on it. Weeds.
Steven:
Well, what's? Yeah. What's? What's? Let me ask you this. Just because Jay and I have been going back and forth this week and about this week, but, you know, over the last few weeks, because it's just such a mixed bag, right? Just just what? What crazy.
Jay:
It it is and it's so variable from Lake to Lake.
Steven:
That's what. That's what I ask is like. So if bucket or are you saying you're seeing some color in the water and steal some weed?
Speaker 4
I know like.
Steven:
I I mean, what's what's the what's the motion in the fish? I mean, like, how are they moving fast moving slow. I mean what are you saying?
Jay:
Yeah, I mean, but. So. So it it's doing weird now like last weekend I was out on bucket top and again I've been out there a little bit here recently because the fish out there are acting like they normally do this time of year at least as far as where they're sitting. So they're not very, they're they're on the steep.
Steven:
Like as far as right.
Jay:
Lines, right. A lot of these other lakes. I'm going to the fishing even necessarily they're they're, I mean, like the Cisco Forge lakes. They're they're out in the open water still. And some of these shallow lakes, you know, they're still buried in the shallow weeds. It's it's absolutely insane. So, you know.
Steven:
It feels like we stalled that, I mean, at least down here it and it's like we stalled the last week of September and it's just continuing the last week of September. You know what I'm saying? Like there, it's like, unchanging, unwavering. I mean, when's the last? Let me ask you this. When's the last major shift in water temperature we like, so you know you hit that 55 market boom, like has. Has it been stagnated in those mid 40s for a while or is it? Just gradually or.
Jay:
Oh yeah.
Jay:
No, it's. Yeah. It's been a while here where we're running anywhere from like 45 to 50 for probably. Almost the last month now I've learned about where, you know, you saw some of the weeds start to die. You saw the LG beam come in and I'll turn. Over took place. And now literally for like a month, some of these lakes are still green. You know, we're still don't get me wrong. Like yesterday, the majority of the weeds on bulk, it's hot and they had, you know, been catching their dead. Dying. But you know, we did still occasionally run into with some fairly green cabbage weeds here and there. And you know.
Jay:
And explain was that.
Steven:
Though because you got a lot of. People here and you're. You know that system for people that have never been to bucket TOB, and they're not North Woods fishermen explore, explain that lake and and why that's so explain what it should be, you know, explain the lake a little bit what it should be versus what you're seeing. So people that haven't experienced that might get a little bit little more knowledge from.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
So yeah, buckets happens. Not a huge day. It's actually technically like 2 lights connected. There's upper and lower, lower is smaller and much shallower. I don't spend a whole lot of time out there, especially this time of the year. I spend most of my time on upper buckets having the bigger, deeper lake of the two. All said and done, I'm pretty sure the two lakes are less than 1000 acres combined. So you're not talking big water, but you know you have 5060 foot deep water. Yeah. And you do have some systems out there. So I have had success before, you know, fishing some of the Cisco forage fish out there in the past. And like I said. But I haven't even been bothering with that because they've been so deep and tight to the bottom. It's it's tough to target a fish, you know, 50 feet down.
Steven:
What's the? What's the magic temp there in the in? The North Woods or or? Or say system like bucket top or maybe like I can't Kentucky. Kentucky doesn't have. Cisco's does it. I'm trying to think of another Cisco.
Jay:
No ciscos, no. Yeah, no. Dig sand and long dolphin Phelps, North and South twin.
Steven:
Big scene, yeah. Fricking. What's that one up towards, Manny. Chain press, guile.
Jay:
Well, the manual chain has them, but a lot of the big deep clear lakes.
Steven:
But what what?
Jay:
Have them you. Know the whole lack of Flambeau chain all that stuff.
Steven:
What's the magic indication of take away the graph? What's the water temperature ciscoes are going to come shallow when you when you start like you see it on your graphic. I need to pay attention where the ciscos are staged because they should be. Yeah.
Jay:
So I'll I'll give a little piece of advice that not necessarily a lot of people talk about. Typically, your ciscos Strawn on western shores of the lake. It's not always, but normally the biggest concentration of stone and ciscos tend to be on the western shorelines of lakes. So I would first start by checking there it's always steep, steep shorelines. Typically it's adjacent to the basin where the deepest water is in the lake, so.
Jay:
If that's OK.
Jay:
When I'm looking at fishing with Ciscos, I want to see these fish in the middle of the day because when they're spawning, typically they spawn at night and yes, so normally it's the full moon in November and they will move up to two feet of water in rock bars. So obviously you can catch very big fish out of shallow waters at these times. And so during the day, normally I will have the boat. Like 20-30 to 20 to 30 feet of water, and that's where I'm looking for the Cisco is a little bit higher in the water column I don't have.
Steven:
Like, are they staged at that?
Jay:
Any tight to the bottom?
Steven:
Are they staged to make the move in?
Jay:
They're they're essentially staged. Yeah, they're they're moving it. Look. So they're only going to be sitting. Out deeper they. Move to like 20-30 seat during the. Day where they're. Staging, quote UN quote and then they move up. Even shower at night and then back out during the day, right? So I'm looking for when they're 20 to 30 feet typically you start to see.
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
That when the water temps are like 42.
Speaker 4
You know and and like.
Jay:
Up until ice out essentially or ice and I should say so. Yeah, it's been. It's been really weird. Buckets Haven does have some ciscos out there, but what I really like about it is there's a lot of really steep breaking shorelines, which is typical for fall. I mean, that is no brainer fishing those kind of shorelines and we're casting, you know, dead weed edges where you're dropping, you know, the boats in 20 feet of water or so. Right. A lot of the fish were either contacting out of the Dome reeds or right off the break, or the ones that were contacting out of the open water right now seem to be coming right off the bottom.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
I had a sucker out a couple days ago, or about four feet off the bottom. I really said, you know what? I'm going to drop that down. So it's about a foot off the bottom. And I'm not kidding you. I dropped it down. I went back to the front of the boat. Watching you on pan optics and. The fish came up on it like instantly. You know, that's the name of the game here. Recently the the looking.
Steven:
What do you? Have what do you have to do? Get it? Get get to eat. At least what? You're what's happening with you? Like how are you? What? What conversion? What are you having to do to convert right now?
Jay:
Not eating. The last fish we got to eat, Steve, came on the Figure 8 and it ate on about the 12th turn of the Figure 8 and it and it actually fired up. When when my buddy speed up, which again November, you know that that that's like a September 5th going around the figure at a dozen times and and.
Steven:
Just just up and up and up. Yeah.
Jay:
Firing up when you're going faster, you know, that's that's not. No, no, no, no, no. It's been weird.
Steven:
Yeah, nothing. Nothing makes sense. No, it's it's it's, it's funny. I I was talking in the boat the other day with Clint. He's like, yeah, he. He's from upper Midwest. He's not quite Wisconsin, but Illinois guy, right. He's like, you know, it's been weird. He's hopefully winter or see me. I apologize. I misquote it. I said, you know, it's been weird. Hopefully the winter will straighten out. And it was kind of dumb on my behalf because he went well, the whole weird, the whole.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
Years been weird about winter's weird too. And I. Went you're right. You know, it's like.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
For that wishful thinking, like it's gonna straighten out. Whereas. You know, I'm. I've been waiting and week after week for three weeks now on the the show we we keep talking about this and you know some of the adjustments you can make and I guess for everybody everybody, I'm. Talking to cross the. Board. It's just there's an opportunity to get in front of big fish, but it's not that typical. You're not busting ice. You don't have a spud bar out there and and they're acting different because this is kind of I want to say unchartered territory, but not something we're often handed for for that bite up there.
Jay:
Well, I, I mean, I definitely talked about that here this last week I said you. I mean, I can look back at my logbook, but I don't have a whole lot of information on, you know, 48° water temps in the middle of November on that just doesn't happen very often, so that is something that I've. Seen very often.
Steven:
Dude, I was.
Jay:
You know.
Steven:
Like I I've been hitting a bunch of different bodies of water. I went to a small, small little body of water in Tennessee 63 the other day. Josh, I'm like what I mean.
Jay:
It's wild, I.
Jay:
1st.
Steven:
Don't even know. I don't even understand how I was I was freezing to death. I'm, you know, is it cold day? I'm sitting here going. How hot was it 2 days ago? You know, was a.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
70 I hadn't been over to that spot in a minute. I was like, God, I would just, you know, and they.
Jay:
I mean we we're we're talking mid November, we have not had a solid day where it's been below freezing all day.
Steven:
When when I keep pestering Jay and you know everybody cause kind of the the lot of people are going well, how much longer is it going to be open up there? I mean, you know, I know a few people put their boats away, I mean. When do you when? When are you thinking about hanging it up? I mean, are you just gonna keep keep grinding until cause I I just think the opportunity is huge. I mean.
Jay:
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm.
Jay:
I'm still going out fishing, especially, you know, it's during some of those prime conditions. I mean, I was out all weekend here on the front room, you know, and stuff like that. So I'm still going out, especially in those prime conditions, you know, but when it's really, really brutal out there blowing 20 miles an hour and 45°, you know, it's tough to tough after it.
Steven:
Yeah.
Jay:
Stevie.
Jay:
After a long season having fished quite a bit and Clark, you know, having fish, you know it's tough to motivate yourself to go out there and be.
Steven:
Nothing I say I'm not that mad at him anymore. You know? It's like it's that's that's guiding. Yeah, that's that's guiding. Yeah, whatever. You know you.
Jay:
Miserable, you know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, nobody was comfortable.
Steven:
Just right, right. Yeah.
Jay:
I can get some stuff done around the house today. You know, it's it's looking a little miserable out there.
Steven:
Alright, ohh, trust me, I know it's like today kind of ended up being one of those days for me. I was like, well, I need to grease my wheel up. See, I could. You know, I could we we ended up just doing a. Happy. You know, we got got got a fish when we're done for the day. And I'm like, yeah, stay but.
Jay:
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Sorry. I I just called Northern Lodge. I'm taking my board in for the 2nd $100 oil change of the year and they were amazed that I had $100. In a year. Back in July.
Steven:
Ohh, come on, these are rookie numbers.
Jay:
And the guys, yeah. I don't know. He's like he's. Like, damn people are left you for $50. On the boat.
Jay:
In the season, well, you know I'm not.
Jay:
Up here, just on weekends. Yeah. So, yeah, he's like, oh, do you? Want me to winterize? It, and I'm like, well, First off, I winterize it myself. So no thank you. But second like.
Steven:
Yeah, baby.
Jay:
No, I mean. We used to have open water for a while. The sisters aren't even spawning yet, like that's that's some of the some of.
Steven:
Chief. And it's fine. That's what I'm saying.
Jay:
Those big fish.
Steven:
And and what I'm looking at is is with the increased water temperature the the oddity of what it is. Right. Yeah, there's there's a bunch to be said about length of day and tighter bike windows. And that's. I mean, I I've been. I've been doing really well, right? I'm unabashedly. On on some definitely sunset and definitely like when it happens, it happened and it's coming. It's it's it's coming fast and furious. But when it happens, they're really moving opposed to like because it's one of those things regardless of where you're at, the temps are a little bit warmer. Water temp, it seems to be. So you know you're getting the heat.
Jay:
Steven:
It's like the fish are moving faster, but their bite windows are a little bit more intense, which is like that's why I keep asking my goodness. If this thing thing lasts until, say, the beginning of December, you got shorter days. You know, the mornings are falling apart. I mean, I think some people could really rock into some big fish up there. I mean, if you're out there, I mean.
Jay:
Ohh absolutely.
Steven:
What's the absolute let's? Say, because last year I hate to even go there. Last year there was not enough snow or ice to do anything in the Northwoods, right? It was just brutal for for the the trail, the guy, the tourism and yeah, right. So it's it's pretty, you know, but I can't recall. Last year a lot of people.
Jay:
The tourism, yeah, the snowmobiles and all that stuff, yeah.
Steven:
Going out that way, am I crazy? Like when? What? When did you, when did you hanging up last year?
Jay:
Realistically, I mean, I probably hung it up sometime in November before Thanksgiving. But realistically, again with it being as long as it was, I actually check out my backup boat in December and January.
Jay:
Hello.
Steven:
See, that's my answer.
Jay:
On on the river channels, we.
Steven:
And your lawyer?
Jay:
Had at the water all all.
Steven:
Winter. What's what's the latest you can go, isn't. It Christmas or something or. Like.
Jay:
The last Saturday. In December for Moscow, yeah.
Steven:
I sent. That's the that's the deal though, man. I mean, if you guys are up there and and you're itching, you know, and that's the other thing I was going to, I'm going to talk to you about Winterizing boat in a second because a lot of people when I winterize my boat, I can't go, we'll get there. But yeah, we'll see. I'll I'll walk you through that.
Jay:
He's gonna say.
Steven:
In a second but. You know that that opportunity again, you don't have to be out there all day long. It's a short day anyway and you go, OK, if it let's say, the majors lining up in the late afternoon, we got sunset right after it. Man 4 or? Five hours is all it's taking to just go boom, you know, and and really see some.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
And we we literally had two fish looking at our our two suckers at the same time. There was one looking at the bobber sucker and one looking at the down rod sucker you know, so like you're getting these windows where and and you have fish literally together. You know I've seen 2 fish together a couple of times on on the electronics here this fall. So you know if you do get that window where you're right.
Steven:
Right. I know, I know. You've been, yeah.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
Both those I mean that's possible. You catch 2 good fish very you know very, very short window. You know they're they're doing what they should be at least you know on on back to top in that that area.
Steven:
I know you've been throwing crackers. What else are you throwing, right?
Jay:
Yeah, John collections some mad dogs. You know, a lot of a lot of big rubber. And actually we've had some success Double D and Triple D's. I've always been a big fan of those.
Steven:
Yep. We talk about you. It's funny. It's funny. I I want to say his last week of the week before somebody asked about that and we did a video for the shop, just like a demo video on them a while ago. And it's it's something I forget. It's one of these baits. You just everybody was hyped on a few years ago and you don't talk about them a bunch, but I always have one.
Jay:
You know that I've thrown them with you.
Steven:
Now and and do you work on the? Are you working in a RIP Twitch, Twitch, kind of gliding pause? Just letting them hang thing?
Jay:
Sure. Yes and no. I mean, I I usually am kind of ripping it aggressively and then giving it.
Speaker 4
A long pause.
Jay:
And then ripping it aggressively. And a long pause. So I mean it's not necessarily that I'm working it and and that's probably what I like about the date is the fact. That I can. Let it sit there, especially the triple deal with it. Yeah. I mean, it's not going. To really rise, it's just going to sit. And so that allows me to really control my. And you know, the more erratic you're working it, I mean, yeah, you're going to get more reactionary strikes at times, but at this time of the year, I want something that's sitting in the face moving slow. And so that that's where those crankbaits really come in handy. And that's why typically, you know, if there's two of us out there, one of us is throwing a deep drowning. Thinking the other one, storing rubber. Yeah, because you're essentially covering 2 exact opposites. The rubber bait is coming up when you pull it and falling. And the Twitch baby is going down when you pull it and rising. When you're not so. You're really covering. The two exact opposite things that you're still moving slow. And getting down. Deep enough to where these?
Steven:
Fish are there? You go. Well, so you you can. You can go to the end of December there and people talk about winterizing boats. And 1st there's a giant caveat.
Jay:
Sure.
Steven:
Here I am not a boat mechanic and Josh is not either, but winterizing your boat is not that big of a deal. If you're thinking about and people actually. I don't ever like somebody's. Like would you guys? Do a video. I'm never going to do a video on winterizing your boat because I don't want to hear about it if. You screw it up. It's and it's.
Jay:
A little different to every motor. You know, stuff like that, but.
Steven:
But don't read. Read your owners manual and all that stuff. But I mean to be honest with you, you know, I've always found that crazy. Where guys where they take it in and they have to get in line to get it into the shop and the shop changes the upper and lower and they most places places, fog them up there, Josh.
Jay:
These are engine fodder.
Jay:
No, I mean I I worked at a Marina for a very long time. No, I was not a mechanic, but they had me winterized boats. It's literally like you're you're changing the like on a four stroke. You're changing the engine oil. Yeah. And and on a 2 stroke you're changing the rolling the oil and you're filling the gas and you're putting like.
Steven:
That's my man. What do they do? Upper upper right. No, thank you.
Jay:
Table and the gas. Gas tank and and that's it. They they don't even fog them up here most of the time. You know, I always get much more difficult to indoor and outdoors where you're pulling hoses and stuff, but no ones fishing out of those. You know, we're we're talking the outdoor. Yeah, true. We're we're talking to two strikes, 4 stroke outboards. They're very, very simple. And as far as summarizing.
Steven:
That's it. Right. No, nobody. Nobody wants to. No, we hope. No. Somebody is. Right.
Jay:
Well, that was. The biggest help in my.
Steven:
Children rising, rising start the damn thing, yeah.
Jay:
Opinion ever. When I worked at the Marina. So if you realize you're both there with them, you have to pay them to take it out of storage and summarize it. And what literally summarizing is just starting it and making sure it runs. And if there's something wrong with it, obviously we will let you know, but they're not fixing it for free. So.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
See it on the bill.
Jay:
The whole summarization thing this marinas are charging up.
Steven:
That's funny.
Jay:
Here is a complete scam.
Steven:
Yeah. Wait, where you're peeking. Behind behind the big boat industry is summarized dude, I can't believe this summer.
Jay:
And and you know. I I just talked about obviously I called more than edge and taking my boat in on Tuesday for the $100 oil change. Again, I could totally do that myself. The problem is with the Suzuki money, it takes 8 quarts of oil.
Steven:
Yes, thanks.
Speaker
And I don't wanna.
Jay:
Add. What am I gonna do with? 2 gallons of oil like I don't have to dispose of that. I might as well at that point, pay the shop for it.
Steven:
That's exactly how did you say that's I did the exact same thing. When I was running mercs and everything. Hell, I think you've been here when I've done it, right? Doing oil changes. Like oh.
Jay:
Ohh yeah. Ohh.
Steven:
Oh yeah, I'm sitting going. Dude, I'm gonna what I'm gonna do like, do you just get a 55 gallon drum behind your house for? Oh, you know. It's fine.
Jay:
And then you have someone come pick it. Up and yeah, I. Don't. I don't know, man, you know.
Steven:
Do whatever. Get Josh. Just do what every good red blooded American does. Dump it in, dump it in the storm sewer. It's just ridiculous. We care about fish. This is why we throw empty back in the day. You know it's.
Jay:
Yeah, there you go.
Steven:
Exactly back it out. I saw it online and it was somebody pulled up the old thing to do with your engine oil. I can't, it was like. Just for like what? What did we do with old engine oil showing to dig a hole in your yard and just dump it in there? It was from, like the 40s, you know? Yeah, just dig a hole.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
And dump. Yeah, great.
Jay:
Stuff. I mean, I'm still like.
Jay:
Go around cleaning up. Obviously I live in the woods, you know? So I'm cleaning up sticks and stuff all the time when it's windy and I'm still. I've had this house for four years. I'm still finding random garbage in the backyard. I mean metal. Like all sorts of stuff, there was like just half burned with burn piles all over. And it's like, dude, you come and at least. Put everything in one spot, like, jeez. Ohh yeah.
Steven:
Welcome. Welcome to home ownership. So whoever this is an aside, folks. Whoever owned my house before I bought a billion years ago. Just like to break glass in the backyard. Josh, that was it. Apparently that was. Let's go.
Jay:
Yeah, that's great.
Steven:
It's Tuesday. Let's break jars. You know, that's just like I've I can't tell you how many times I've been the back. Like, ohh, I mean. I'm sorry. You know the. The woes of home ownership.
Jay:
Well, Steve is not telling you guys, does he may not have remembered dropping a couple of bottles out there from the night before, right?
Steven:
Ohh, hell yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, you know me. Just chucking them against that. Raging. Chucking him up in there and.
Jay:
Alone.
Jay:
Shoot you and Jody.
Jay:
Stick around the little fire pit in the backyard. Yeah.
Steven:
Raging. We're. I'm real wild folks, let me tell you, I'm about to. I'm about as boring as they come. Josh Kidder test. But.
Jay:
Uh, yeah. No, that's been the same life, you know, you, you wake up, you go out on the water all day, you come home, you eat and you're ready for bed. Well, record a couple of things and.
Steven:
Yeah. And that I'll tell you that's the thing though, about the the back back to the the boat winterizing. I just encourage guys to do it because again.
Jay:
Are you done?
Steven:
It is a big expenditure. They'll charge you a lot of money from, I think a lot of. It Josh. Is like. You're not old guy like I am. I'm not that old yet, but. You get your first boat and you're kind of scared of it. You know what I'm saying? Like right and and. But as a guy. And the reason I bring this up.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
Is is a guide you. Can't always get into the Marines for an oil change or do all this stuff. You have to do it.
Jay:
Marine.
Jay:
Right, right now, I mean, that's the scariest thing about owning the fiberglass. Don't like being a guy.
Speaker
And you're.
Jay:
Like I can't afford to pay a Marina to wire up all my electronics, so I'm forced to now drill into fiberglass.
Steven:
You got to do it yourself. Right, you know and.
Jay:
That that's about the sketchiest thing. That's the thing. I hate doing the most, but yeah.
Steven:
Right. But with the. Engine. I just encourage guys. There are so many great things available online, direct from most of the manufacturers and a lot of good tutorials. If you're not doing your own oil changes and you're paying, I mean, I've seen the oil change places for boats where it's like 600 bucks.
Jay:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Steven:
And and and when you when you look at it and you go once you, it's just like anything. It's like learning to musky fish. Once you're comfortable with it, it's not this big, big bad ordeal. But when it comes to like outward maintenance, you know, that first time you change your oil, you're going to be scared. Crapless the next time you get a start up, but once you get comfortable doing it. It's not that it's, you know, I'm saying the more you do it, the more comfortable are opposed to it. You know, now, the oil's expensive. Like you said, the mount, the Suzukis take. But a lot of it, though. I mean, if you're running America running something, you know, my God, I used to Yamaha 2 stroke. I don't think I changed the oil in it in about 8 years, but nonetheless.
Speaker 4
I mean.
Steven:
You could you could in about 5 minutes. But I can't. That's just one nice things, man. I we don't. I don't talk about the boat stuff that that terribly much, but when you.
Jay:
Yeah, it's. Honestly, I mean.
Jay:
None of it is over the top complicated like.
Speaker 4
You say turn, it's for your driver, yeah.
Jay:
The video. I mean, even like I've I've put a new water in power in, not not in the Suzuki. But I mean, I'm not saying it's fun, but yeah, you watch YouTube video and then it's pretty much going to teach you everything.
Steven:
No, I hate doing now. I don't like doing that.
Speaker 4
Hot dude Diana.
Jay:
You need and you know.
Steven:
I I don't even. I think he was probably still in diapers. I'm not gotten. I had a old Merc. Right there, I had to do the impeller because I didn't have the money to pay anybody else to do it.
Jay:
Right. OK. Yeah.
Steven:
I could not like you just screwed it up. It wouldn't shift right. It was so bad. I was out there like you could you had to line it up, you know, obviously perfectly right. You got to get that. But it on that motor it didn't. It didn't like have a spline or something like that to line it up. OK, so I turned the shaft. When I turn the power and it's like you're not supposed to do that. And something was out of whack. And I remembered I just laughing because I remember being out in my yard.
Jay:
- Yeah.
Steven:
With musts on the thing, would you know how loud A2 strike is with freaking nuts on it? You know, I started before sunset and I'm out there like 5 in the next morning and I'm sitting here. My neighbors are gonna kill me because I'm starting this thing at like 3 in the.
Jay:
Ohh sorry. Yeah Nope.
Steven:
Morning seeing if you know what I'm saying.
Jay:
Thank you, sister.
Steven:
There's such a screamingly low. Now. Anyway.
Jay:
I've run shops access 3:00 in the morning in my garage. You know, making sure the boats clean for the boat coming up. Right. It's like, oh, I.
Steven:
Absolutely.
Jay:
Hope my neighbors. Don't hate me. They do.
Steven:
They always do. They're not.
Jay:
Muskin fish is actually my neighbor muskan fishes and was talk to me about the podcast. So sorry, we're all right.
Steven:
Very nice. Yeah, but, well, good stuff. I mean, we'll probably check back. The thing is this. We'll check back in. Obviously, Josh will be doing the the report, I'm sure here next spring and into the in the main part of season, but. The thing for me, it's just kind of I've I've said a few times on the podcast over the last few weeks, kind of uncharted territory, which is neat, you know? So if it stays open, we'll get you back on. Cause I'd love to. I mean, if if if you're targeting skis in December, we need to talk again because it's. Such a unique thing. That's the plan as.
Jay:
Dummy nodes. Of right now I just set it up. With, you know guys from down South, we were talking about possibly going the weekend after Thanksgiving, so.
Steven:
We go.
Jay:
You know, they can't foresee that we have ice at that point, so.
Steven:
Well, you know that it takes a lot to do it anyway. Well, guys, yeah, we we don't don't hurt your vote. Don't listen to anything we said about anything we said about it working on. I don't even know what the liability. We don't do anything right don't the but you can. Anyway we'll get you here soon, Josh all right.
Jay:
No, yeah, don't. Not yet. Yeah, sounds good.
Steven:
Yes. What do you think, Jay?
Jay:
The creator speaks.
Steven:
The Kreger speaks, it seems like across the board. Pennsylvania, I'm seeing it here. Everybody's seeing it. It's it's that, that wacky, wonderful stuff. Like I said, just, you know, keep it grinding. You just I I I've said it again, say it again. Then again, the the opportunity I've seen them. The huge zillas are out there and it it's that one time where you might be, you know, you're sitting there and Jay, you got a cup of cocoa, right?
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Imagine you're sitting there. You got a cup of cocoa and. You know, and you haven't seen the sun in three months. Your mouth tastes like gun bluing. You, you you appreciate that extra day of fishing you had. You know you.
Jay:
You can't catch him sitting on. The couch, Steve, you just can't.
Steven:
And you're going to be sitting on. That that you northern. Guys, you'll be on the couch soon.
Jay:
The couch is coming, you. Better believe this.
Steven:
Sitting there watching Gilmore girls or whatever it is you do over winter, what do you do today? Football's over snow on the ground. Wash dirty roadside slush.
Jay:
There's there's plenty of that comment you.
Jay:
Can imagine, although we didn't have any snow last year, so you never know.
Steven:
Just dirty roadside minus the slush. You're sitting there cold and the ice is frozen or lakes frozen over ohm. Horrible. Then you can come down here and it's warm. But no, it's it's cool. Like I said, I like. I like hearing about the different opportunities.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Let's let's cooking, man. So we will get Jay and we've been bad. Jay, you've been bad. Naughty, naughty lad. Jay ever. OK. Lad. We didn't do any Q&A, so we'll have to catch up with that. You naughty, naughty lad.
Jay:
Oh. No. Plus, for all that stuff going on next week, so yeah, it'll be.
Steven:
That's going. Ohh yeah. What is going on?
Jay:
A good one. You know, Black Friday it's coming.
Steven:
And it is it. Next week, it's 78 now. We'll tease about no. The passage of time. It's painful.
Jay:
Is this something? It's starting to scare you. It's adding.
Steven:
Up it's adding the clocks, running out boys. Tick tock. Tick tock.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
I'm a coming jaybird. Say goodnight. Thanks everybody.
Jay:
Is only.
Speaker 4
Same.
Speaker
You know.
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 255: Gettin' Messy with Esse
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 252: New Magnus Swimbait User Q+A
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 251: Is it Fall? Danny and Steven Herbeck and Ramblings
Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 239: Figure 8 Lure Co. plus User Q+A
Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 238: Old School Musky Gear
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 237: Musky Ninja Tricks | Q+A
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 236: Early Season Musky Magic
