Musky 360 Podcast Episode 251: Is it Fall? Danny and Steven Herbeck and Ramblings
Transcript
Steven:
Alright folks, welcome to the Muskie 360 podcast of J Bird. Chief, I am finally. Back at home with an ugly listen, fricking Daddy never left. Put four in the boat today. What are you going to say anyway? We have on the phone already. Danny herbeck. Danny. How you doing, buddy?
Jay:
I know. Good man. Just getting off the water. Just getting off the water. Drive home here. Well.
Steven:
Good deal good.
Speaker
Well.
Steven:
Well, we want to give you a holler because we always do the comings and goings of the muskie shop and and and again. If you're looking for candidate info, check it out on the app Danny and and Joe Cooper are doing the Canada Muskie 360. Broadcast kind of a fishing report, but I had to call you immediately. I was so stoked I got these two text messages on the water. You were like. It works. What's going on? What did you figure out? What's this new bait you got? Kind of. That's under the radar. Your secret little thing you got going on there.
Jay:
So I mean, as you know, we have talked in that kind of. Get little snippets throughout the year. I mean, besides, you know, obviously the bourbon tube and the blades and the, you know, the 3D Soccer Babbage is launched on the Muskie line. We are continuously working. You know, we have a whole lineup of stuff that we're finalizing. You know, as you know, some guys that have it in their hands. You know, feel it's ready and it's, you know, it's proven. Right the last.
Speaker 3
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
Thing you want to do is is launch a debate to the public and it be a, you know, a dud, right? So the new. 3D Sucker Cross Tail it's a, you know, a real life like it's a curl tail, but it also has two other tails on it. It's it's it's a triple tail design, you know. Pull paws bait, but what's really cool, you know, obviously like, you know like what we did with the tube and the Bucktails. It's got a, you know, a movable weight system in it. To kind of. You know you can totally change the action of if you want like a head quick fall, you put the sinker, you know underneath the front hook or you know it has what I've been actually running with it is putting the weight underneath the back hook, which keeps it real straight. So you can really RIP it and stop it really fast. And that's kind of seems to be.
Steven:
Very cool.
Jay:
It's gotta be the jam with it, but it's it's a really cool bed. It's got really awesome, you know, colors like, you know, savages is doing, you know, real, real life, like, realistic key fish colors. And I've put some fish in the boat with it. And it's, I mean, it's just getting to that time of year for, you know, the.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
Jay:
The bigger rubber it comes in two sizes, you know, a big fall, a big fall size, you know, and it's got a summer size as well and it's it's, you know a very unique bait with the action of it with the you know the two tails. It's really cool they almost they act kind of like a rudder or you know so you can really it's. Unlike you know, a lot of the other rubber baits where you can really work it and you're not going to get it to roll and foul or anything like that and.
Speaker
Ah.
Jay:
It's a killer, man.
Steven:
Very cool. They're they're doing. I'm looking right now in the Muskie shop. There's a priest on up for. These which is. Cool. Probably with the most devastating high bright sun collars I've ever seen. Because Danny and I, I I professed to him in Canada and he looked in my in the in, in the rubber storage.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven:
How much I love the alien eels. One of my favorite colors is the the blue glitter flash that blue and silver that they do, and it looks like they're doing that in this this Bay. It's kind of. Like a RIP. Bait pool bait. Danny, do you think you're saying it's more RIP paws than it than swim bait? Or does it do swim? Bait stuff, yeah.
Jay:
I work it really hard. I mean, I just feel like I can get more bites, you know, working a bit hard than kind of just lazily swimming it in. Not to say that that you know that that that won't work for a guy. But when I when I work for rubber, I work at, I work it really hard.
Steven:
Well, there you have it, folks. Danny.
Speaker 2
Yeah, unlike all savage gear stuff, I mean, it's so well thought out, you know, I mean, when it boils down to it, they, they've always got, you know, like interchangeable weight systems and stuff for fine tuning, you know, even the Bucktails, you know, so we got pretty excited about this. It's gonna.
Speaker 5
Very cool.
Steven:
Be cool bait. Yeah. I mean, it's just.
Jay:
Yeah, they got.
Speaker
Jay:
They got really good, they got really good hooks on them. They got BKK hooks on them. So I mean, I mean, unless you drive that thing into a rock repeatedly. I mean they. A razor razor sharp and they're real nice. Heavy, you know, heavy gauge Hawks hooking fish on them are not a problem with, you know, the the quality components obviously, right. And that's that's one thing that. I stressed to. To mass when we're working on products. Is that you? Know a lot of these. Baits. You know, they make great beds, but they put cheap cheap components on them where you know you're having to replace hooks because you file them down to enough or split rings or or, you know.
Steven:
They're. Or they're unsharpened able. Some of these heavy, yeah.
Jay:
Or. Or split rings or, you know, pulling open on you because they're not using heavy, heavy enough gauge split rings and you know, stuff like that. It's just all the little things that people really overlook when they're buying a bait. I stress to the fact that we gotta have the best of the best on these baits and make them the, you know, the nicest colors and the most realistic. Stuff we can.
Steven:
Well, the one thing I'm gonna tell you this day.
Speaker 2
That's great.
Steven:
I I was scoring today. I Daddy came home, you know, got out on the boat, had to had to kick some teeth in you know. That freaking Max shine. Remember that little giddy up and on Wabigoon this year like that? The freaking side to side glider you showed me? Wow. Love it. So I was throwing the big one the the the ghost Bone man.
Jay:
Get out of that.
Steven:
Very very rad.
Jay:
Yeah, that's that's those are very overlooked bases as well. So Muskies, you know when fishing's tough, that's what I pull out generally is those shine glides, you can usually get them to do something.
Steven:
Yeah, that. Weird. Yeah, I was throwing that and again like. It's a more like my probably my favorite thing is this and I'm like like you know. It's not about allegiance to anything. I love trolling like the Livingston lure Viper, which is what I call like automatic glide bait, right? The Shine glide seems to point harder left to right on a on a on an actual reeling stop kind of deal like real like you're just kind of pumping the real if you know what I'm saying.
Jay:
Yeah, it's it's a glib. Ohh it's a glide bait that you don't.
Steven:
It's true, glide. Yeah.
Jay:
Even have. To you don't even have to twitch the router. You can do it all with the real handle if you want. And the nice thing about that is that that perfect 90° turn it makes and that's yeah, I mean with Muskies, especially when they're really negative, that's the trigger is that 90° turn, it's kind of a, you know, **** or.
Steven:
But that.
Jay:
Get off the pot. Type, Type deal, right? They're either gonna eat it or they're gonna peel away and do and do. Nothing with it.
Steven:
Do something or yeah, get get after. So now that's another interesting thing. And like I said, we're we, we got Danny here just for. Like I said, not to pump baits, but you know that that some of the savage gear stuff like I said, as much time to actually I'm headed to you, that's another thing I could tell headed to Europe here in a few more days. We'll report on that shortly. That's going to be fun, but. Some of these concepts and some of the the thought process behind these baits is pretty cool. Well, I got you Danny, the that that fricking the the the 3D bourbon the original not the Bourbon 2 but the one with the big ribbon tab. You know. You know what's up with that? I know you did some cool trolling with that. Have you talked about that on your your fishing report on the podcast or is that something you're trying to keep secret that kind of like low and deep trunk?
Jay:
No, I don't, I. Don't really. I don't really keep it secret. We're actually, you know, it was developed over in Europe as a, as a Pike bait and, you know, brought on. Over here, and I mean it, I. Catch a bunch. Of fish on I work it kind of like a bulldog. You can slow troll. I mean it's it looks just like an actual bourbon. I mean, in every fish in freshwater loves eating them. But we're actually in the works right now of redesigning it for actual musky fishing. Making it, you know a little bit more sturdy, you know, a a wire through harness so that there's going to be a revamp of that in the future coming because it is. A very deadly date.
Steven:
Very cool. So awesome, Danny. Well, I appreciate the heck heck out of you. We grabbed him right when he got off the water. It's not the typical comings and goings of the muskie shop, but at least giving you guys a heads up with. With what Danny's got brewing here and you know it's all about catching fish here and it's it's, you know, like me and Danny laugh. We we worked for two different masters. But you know it's it's solving the problems and getting the right presentations and putting fish in the boats with matter had to talk to him. He sent me two just stellar Muskies on that 3D cross tail. So something to consider. Check him out, man. He's doing the Canada podcast with with Joe. What? What? What would you say? Danny is like the trajectory I know is where we get. I think you're gonna finish out September. What do you think? For like, October, November on that like a a monthly or what's kind of your thought there when we get in cause it's like cold water sucker. Stuff.
Jay:
Well. Ohh, I mean, I'll be fishing every day right through to the end of October. And I mean might as well kind of, I mean, and you, you you do have an influx of people coming up that last few weeks of October. So I mean, probably keep the weekly thing going right through till the end of October. And I mean I Joe's Joe's ********, he'll fish till there he's. The whole lake is iced up. He'll break ice for miles to get out there, so.
Steven:
Nice. Nice. That's why we got him, baby.
Jay:
But but I mean after after October kind of goes then probably do just a monthly thing and more in depth on you know what we saw throughout the season and little adjustments a guy can make to kind of prepare himself for next year and you know things like that, right. And kind of just a little bit more a little bit more informative.
Steven:
I like it.
Jay:
Other than just, you know, a phishing report on what we're seeing and. And stuff like that, right?
Steven:
Very cool, man. So, Danny, well, I appreciate the heck out of it. We're gonna finish up the podcast here. If you'll hang her up for me. Guys, check it out. Danny's doing that fish and pull it with Joe Cooper. Great stuff on Canada. And I would say this, the great stuff for just generality. Of muskie fishing, too. You know what? I'm. Saying just, you know, just just to keep dialed in and keep going there so. Danny. Keep slaying him. I'll talk to you soon, my friend.
Jay:
All right. Take care guys.
Speaker
Here.
Steven:
Well, Jay Bird, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2
It's awesome. Yeah, you know what? And then Denny's got that new video with we all just did, you know, with yourself in it, on the savage gear 3D Burbot tube. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steven:
Throw it up on the app, it's on the Muskie shops YouTube and and like I said, man freaking. Yeah, I make the crack, and Danny made the burbot too, man. Let's catch fish. If he not if he.
Speaker 3
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
I can kick.
Jay:
We we get.
Steven:
Peas and carrots, you know? So they're tactically things you can learn from everybody. And so Danny's got a very, very interesting perspective on muskie fishing. And one of my, my favorite. People in in recent memory to spend and spend a day in the boat with or or to punish your liver with Jay.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
It it, it just happens. What are you going to do? You know, man's got. Man's got to eat anyway. We're just jumping right in. Why not? If we're talking about the 3D bourbon tube coming up, there's some new muskie shop hoodies and that's cool. Check that out. You got the. What is it? Dyewood F.
Speaker 2
Nothing. Bunch new.
Steven:
Jay Fluro FC, what is this?
Speaker 2
It's a fluorocarbon line, it's it's light line, it's it's not musky line.
Steven:
Ah, is it back in now? It's not even OK. So it's bassy. Yeah. You get freaking if you know.
Speaker 2
It's mainline. It's light stuff for the walleye fisherman.
Steven:
For the walleye, for the Walters, I made that.
Speaker 2
We want. Ultra clear. Presentation.
Steven:
I made Danny Herbeck take a picture from monster Walleye caught with him. He was mad.
Speaker 2
No wallets are fish.
Steven:
Too now they're like it was. It was lame, it was lame. But he was like, really, it was like, take a picture.
Speaker 2
It was a giant come.
Steven:
On it was a giant. It was fun. I don't care. Have no shame whatever.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Steven:
Me, me holding the walleye. Moving on moving. You know. Tough, tough, tough ***, bud, take my.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Picture. Smiling big anyway. Jake, what's going on with you up there? What seems to be the current vibe in the Northwoods? You know what are you seeing? You know the vibe? Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2
It's interesting a little bit, Steve. It it? Yeah, you. The I know. Yeah. I mean, the last the, the last few days. Actually. Thursday, Friday. We had a really, really nice welcome cold front, you know. Very cold weather, 30s at night, water temps dropping like crazy. Everyone's like Oh yeah.
Steven:
I will. No thank you. No.
Speaker 2
Bring on the sucker fish and bring on fall. You know, right and now. They're talking 80 plus degrees Monday through Friday.
Steven:
Ohh, yucky yuck. Yuck, really.
Speaker 2
And maybe into the weekend like upper 70s, so way above normal, it's hard to say what that's going to do, but I I think some adjustments are in order. Let's put it that way. You know what I mean because that's yeah, that's unusual. Obviously it's it's way above normal.
Speaker
Ah.
Steven:
Yeah, let me look here.
Speaker 2
You know the lakes are, yeah.
Steven:
Dude, I mean, I'm looking right here. Yeah, 79788584 it is not fall.
Speaker 2
Well. So. Yeah. So that might put a little bit of a dent in the in the program.
Steven:
Yeah, have fun keeping them suckers alive, boys. I mean, we're almost.
Speaker 2
That's not widespread yet. People. People were picking him up. You know, Fred picked one up on a on a guide trip just the other day. I think he went out Thursday after work. And sure enough, yeah.
Steven:
Now. Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
Speaker 2
He had one.
Steven:
What? What, what what?
Speaker 2
And and he had to pick up on it, couldn't get to set the iron, as they say. But yeah, you know, he was cramping. It was, yeah, it was warm.
Steven:
Cramping up against said the hoof.
Speaker 2
That's inside joke.
Steven:
Sorry. Ohh man. Yeah, you would think it would. It would be, you know, Sucker Ish. But hey, whatever. You know. I'm not big on. I'm not big on commentary when it comes to anything real world, but man, weather patterns are weird you. You know, September used to be a cold thing. Hey, maybe it's the axis. Who knows? Whatever's not going there.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
But it has seemed seems way warmer. You know I'm I'm having a fish low and slow and deep. One thing that shocked me when I got home. It was so hot while I was gone. Right. Thank goodness. My wife. The what? The wife would text me. Jay, it's 104, right? No woman, it's 65. Where I'm at. Right, or whatever my. And. And like Mike, my buddy, my buddy Mike or some other people got to hang out with in Canada, we would look at it and be like, Oh my goodness. You know, we're 60°.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Cooler or you know it's 45°. You can see your breath or something crazy. But it roasted the vegetation down here.
Speaker 2
OK, looking like roasted.
Steven:
There is not gonna.
Speaker 2
It early, doll.
Steven:
Freaking smoldered smithed by the hand of God, you know, so that's something I'm going to have to contend with. But you know, structure is structure is structure. So that kind of place, you know what? Let's try, Jay. Let's try somebody. Let's see what, Jay?
Speaker 2
Steven:
Let's see what Jake Smitty Smith is saying. Let's see if he answers.
Speaker 2
I saw him just the other. Day.
Steven:
What a what knife and people in a parking lot. Culvert.
Speaker 2
Yeah, he stopped in with a shaking knife and he started. You know, I don't know. He was, you know, he was looking at Fred and got in his face, had to stare down challenge going there it was.
Steven:
Just creepy. Let me call him.
Speaker 6
Hey, this is Jake Smith. I'm probably out fishing right now, but if you leave your name and your message, I'll get back to you when I get in. Thank you.
Speaker 7
At the tone, please record your message when you finished recording, you may hang up or press 1 for more options.
Steven:
Jake, I'm pregnant. Call me anyway, Jay. Are you there? Yeah. I'm sorry. I just left him a voicemail. So you probably couldn't hear that because it didn't merge anyway, seeing what he was doing it, you know.
Speaker 3
Here.
Speaker 2
He's he's in Canada, actually.
Steven:
Ohh is he well that business.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you left Saturday morning. Yeah.
Steven:
What's he doing up there?
Speaker 2
Think he went up with with his daddy with with Big Smitty? Yeah.
Steven:
Selling, selling, selling Wizards well left him a voice.
Speaker
Black.
Steven:
Market Wizard black market. Sir, are you are you bringing anything across the border for sale? Absolutely not. It's just Shanks. It's just piles of weaponry.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Anyway, yeah, it's it's interesting. Fall is not fall thus far. It that seems to be the vibe.
Speaker 3
Can you call me? Back no.
Steven:
You're fine. Sounds great. We're talking about fall Muskies herbeck. At least you answer the phone. What would you say on a scale of one to 10? Or why would the Smitty's not answer my call?
Speaker 3
OK, So what are we talking about?
Speaker 2
Whoa.
Speaker 3
I don't know.
Steven:
Maybe they want to help anyway, we're just harassing people this evening, talking for all Muskies. It is warm. It is weird. Jay kind of was queuing me in. And and what's happening up? North. What's your vibe? What's kind of like a a muskie legends. Read on how you contend with this warmer fall. A lot of guys would be thinking suckers almost already. What? What's your read on Wisconsin all the way up through Eagle. What are you thinking, Bud?
Speaker 3
Well, definitely. You know, prime time, moon phases and stuff. There's definitely a shallow bite. And you know, it goes up and down, you know, with these heat spells and cold fronts coming in, you know, we really just need the water temperature to just slowly get cooler and cooler, you know, for that pre turnover bite to get really, really, really good, you know, so you got fish doing a little bit of everything. There's some fish down deep. And they've been there all summer. That's why some places have had sporadic bites going on, and then they're switched really shallow at this time of the year, so. So you just got to kind of play around it depends upon the kind of lake. You're on too. You know? But you know, I've definitely noticed, you know, fish out deep and and they and they've been there pretty much all summer and and you know those are the fish that will come up come. 3 turnover and turnover and those are the fresh fish that we hope they've been, you know, scoped to death, you know.
Speaker
What I mean?
Steven:
Right. Yeah. Yeah. What what, what kind of, like, for those deep fish, right.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Presentation wise, what it? What? What's coming your game plan?
Speaker 3
So. Well, you know, most of the time it's it's, you know, vertical jigging or tubes or or or Bulldogs, you know a weighted a weighted Medusa works good too. But generally it's really tough to beat you know tubes of any type whether it's you know the red October. The crack and the crack and I wait extra heavy to do. But or or the savage you know, I mean, they all work good. But what I what? I've done a lot better with on these deep fish is clean tubes, not the spinner. You know, you get a lot more erratic action. You know. You can keep the beat deeper easy through most of your retreat. And when I'm fishing, you know what you do is you just look for places and and fish like a key is looking for work. Are concentrating on that hard bodied mud transition while bite that usually happens this time of year going into turnover and there's gonna be.
Speaker
MMM.
Speaker 3
You know, but that's it's a different type of nail. Lot of people don't do it, but this is all expanded bikes just start to deteriorate.
Speaker
A little bit you.
Speaker 3
Know the the big problem going down with the following.
Speaker
Client times in a row.
Speaker 3
Depends on the like how the lake is, but you gotta find the 30 feet deeper right now.
Steven:
Just talking about the thermocline and what you're targeting. What were you saying?
Speaker 3
Yeah, the the, the, the, the fish is naturally kind, especially in your deep clear Cisco base type of lakes, they tend to you know there's a those fish that are suspended over open water a lot in the summer those fish just follow thermocline down so they get more and more out of. Reach. You know what I'm saying? You have to be a little careful about how deep you're fishing. You know what I'm saying?
Steven:
What? What would you say? And I'm not putting you on the spot. What? What? What? What? What's the safe range?
Speaker 3
2025 feet.
Steven:
Anything past that, like I've never like.
Speaker 3
Well, if you fish any deeper now, you gotta be very careful and bring them in very, very slow and also have a big like I have my plug knocker with a with a split ring and a small wire booger hook on it. And and if the fish that I bring up any deeper. 2025 feet I whether it's whether it looks like it's stressed or not, I hook it into a the skin and the the tip of its lower jaw. I put it under the duct. And I let it swim out for about 10 minutes and I just copped the wire free and the and the fish are, you know, they're back. It's almost like a skin diver, you know, going into the the the tank, you know, the decompression alize, you know. But but to to if you wanna fish shell this time of year the best thing to do is pick your lakes. Right turn green and stuff like that. That that have depths of basins that are 3035 feet left and there's and they got a lot of lead growth and and dollars that are very green those are the lakes that right now are. Actually at the peak.
Speaker 5
The whole.
Speaker 3
You'll find them on thousand, and there's usually a great night going on, you know, and so, you know, you got to pick the kind of lake too, you know that and and and what's going on on the kind of lake that if you don't aren't able to pick you know a certain type of lake but definitely the best shallow. Light is on your lakes that got some color to them and and typically turn a little green come this time of year.
Steven:
Wait. Something you hit me two years and years ago is blackout blades with the black skirt on green lakes that still hold for you.
Speaker 3
Ohh yeah, that's by far by far the best. Ohh combination on Green lakes is black and black or black and orange.
Speaker
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 3
You know, they're just anything. My suits I bring out through this time. Of year are. Black, you know the Bulldogs? My medusas are black.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3
My tubes are black with orange stripe on the belly. You know things like that. You know it's it's just it's sets. It really contrasts to the green, you know.
Steven:
Right. Easy target. Yeah, easy target. So let me ask you this, because we will inevitably be.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
It's sucker fishing up north here soon, right? So.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'll be a bed. You could catch the man, especially, you know. You know, right now, you know, you can catch them on smaller suckers. As good as a tube. If you, if you, if you like. If you're a scooper, you scope fish, you know, throwing a small sucker at them. On a jig or or on a on a windy rig or or a slip bobber and throw it to him like a eight to 10 inch sucker. Look gobble it right up and then put you gotta be there's no, there's no weighting man. He's set to hook immediately.
Steven:
You know. Right. What? What, what are some of your tips, though, like gearing up for sucker fishing when when fall actually hits up?
Speaker 3
Well, I I personally don't get really serious, you know, about soccer fishing until the water, you know, gets closer to 50°. You know what I mean?
Steven:
Gotcha. So we gotta man up for.
Speaker 3
Yeah, but I mean, but you know the problem it is is when you got temperatures in the high 60s, seventies, it's just hard to keep. Them. Alive. You know, if you if you got. A a a. Cooler instead of alive? Well, and. And you know you you got, you know, some ice you can throw in there through the course of the day and then you get to fish. Down to 1012 feet, the beat, you know, then then you're OK, but it's a lot of dicking around. What? What? What? What? What? What? What? We'll work right now. Just.
Speaker 5
Right.
Speaker 3
Kind of. You know, because you're allowed an extra line to know in Wisconsin, up to up to three if for three people, you know what I mean is is just, you know, why you're casting just run 1, you know about, you know, 6 to 12 feet below the boat, you usually around 8 to 10 feet. And I usually like it just that a little bit of an angle.
Steven:
Right, right.
Speaker 3
45 towards the back of the boat or you, or you can float it just for follows. Do you know what I mean?
Steven:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Just just have it there and and be prepared and.
Speaker 3
And I'm telling you right now, if you have a lake, a lot of the green lakes got it. A lot of these green lakes are full of little northern and northern Wisconsin. They're legal. If you ain't a little northern. 10 feet back to the boat stuck at 678 feet down. You're gonna be. You're gonna be surprised how many bites you get.
Steven:
Yep. Hey, man. Hey.
Speaker 3
Seriously, they go down, they love them, they they hard sit on them. They go down like you're cleaning, you know? Yeah, they love.
Steven:
Why not? Hey, if you can do it, do it. So fantastic. You're gonna be back on Eagle here very shortly. What? What's that looking like? Kind of that. That October ish. What's what? What's your read on a typical like.
Speaker 3
If we got. It's 70° off September. Then you know it's gonna be like September come October. You know, if it acts like Eagles supposed to, that's starting soon. Which next week, it ain't gonna start. Cause we got high temperatures all over the northern part, like, right now. We got good cold fronts. It starts slowly dropping the lights up. But next week there we go.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 3
707580 degrees so.
Steven:
Oh, you guys are as warm as us now. I'm back home and it's like, whoa.
Speaker 3
Yeah, what you need, what you need is you need the temperature to slowly start dropping, and even if you're in turn over, it's not just slowly start dropping. You know, fish start acting like it's gonna happen. You know what I mean? But. But if it stays warm and stay and you get them hot spells, the fish acting really, really squirrely. And what you find is you find a lot of fish.
Speaker 5
You.
Speaker
MHM.
Speaker 3
Out deep over the mud during cold fronts and on the hot spells, you're gonna find them right up in the shallow flop.
Steven:
Right, right, which is spinner bait, bucktail top water kind of thing.
Speaker 3
They move in and out at just the whim of them, you know.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. Just, just quickly, something that you know a lot of people don't think about Steve Herbeck and trolling very often, but I know you troll as well. When do you start implementing trolling during the fall period?
Speaker 3
Well, if you get those cold fronts and you're in, you're in turn over, you know, trolling over mud flats and stuff where the walleyes are hanging. Stuff like that can be very, very effective, but typically I like the combination cast and use live bait as long as I can. If I don't have good live bait live bait. And and we're in the turnover pass turnover, then I'm gonna troll. I also troll when the wind conditions are tough for people to cast all day when it's really cold and your wheels are freezing and stuff. But you know, and if the fishing's on the tougher side, I start banging the edges because I can cover a lot of ground. And I can trigger fists.
Steven:
Yeah. There you go. What more can you ask for, Steve? We appreciate it. We'll can't catch up with the here soon soon. Buddy.
Speaker 3
Yep. Thank you.
Steven:
Bigot, Jay, what do you think about that? Herbie the man? The myth, the legend? Some tips on suckers trolling the whole bit. Kind of this fall transition thing.
Speaker 2
Great stuff and yeah, yeah. And how to make adjustments when you get a warm blast when that's the opposite of what's expected. Yeah. Yeah, that's good.
Steven:
That's. The you're. So well, it is. It isn't what it should be. Going. Would it be what it do? Would it be? Would it, you know, well articulate for this thing, some might say.
Speaker 2
Well put, yeah.
Steven:
What are you gonna do? What are you gonna?
Speaker 2
Do well, I tell you what, you know another another great person to talk with would be the great Elmer. But he's in Canada.
Steven:
Too. Really. Where's he at Lake? In the.
Speaker 2
Woods, Lake of the woods with his group of Eagle River guys from his club.
Steven:
What's Freddie doing? Working. What's card? Let's try card.
Speaker 2
Ordered should try Fred. Let's try Fred, OK.
Speaker 5
- I'll try Fred, Fred J. What's going on guys?
Steven:
Well, Fred, what are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 5
Just taking care of customers inside the shop.
Steven:
Well, we wanted to know what the bite was looking like in the North Woods right now. What do you? Got going on.
Speaker 5
Oh, no water, fish. Lot of fish are shallow right now with this major cold front that we've had, and now we're going to be facing a warm front starting tomorrow. Going up into the 80s. So they might slide back out to. The outside edge.
Steven:
Nice, nice.
Speaker 5
That's what I'm thinking it's going to be.
Steven:
What are you throwing?
Speaker 5
I'm going to be throwing some well off the get go when I get back on the water for Muskies, I will be throwing definitely still going to throw up a Big Mac from Livingston and I will probably.
Jay:
MHM.
Speaker 5
Throw that when I got off the get go and then also possibly a cracking or even red October tubes or even some suits on the outside edge on those colder mornings.
Speaker
Nice.
Steven:
What? What are you saying are are you doing walleye right now or multi species?
Speaker 5
Yep, I'm going. I'm going. Walleye and crappie fishing tomorrow.
Steven:
What are they? What are?
Speaker 5
Doing. So tomorrow I'm going to target up around the 27 to 30 foot range for walleyes. I'm going to use crawlers and probably red tailed chubs and then I will go chase my beloved crappies and those will probably be suspended in 2223 feet of water in some areas.
Steven:
What are you are you scoping? At all, Fred.
Speaker 5
Yes, I'll be scoping the crappies and the walleyes.
Steven:
What are you seeing when you're doing that right? Because like Danny, her back and and and when I'm looking at bait and think things that nature. When you're scoping the walleyes right now in the North woods or scoping the are you seeing Muskies on occasion in those depths or?
Speaker 5
Occasionally, yeah, yeah.
Speaker
You. You'll, you'll.
Speaker 5
See, you'll see something that's very abnormal and and much larger in size and. And that's what I wish I had a a red October tube or a cracked in or something in the boat. And I wasn't just targeting the walleye. It's like, oh, that's that's very big.
Steven:
Or a Bondi. Ohh dude dude, you gotta you gotta keep one on hand. Get you a big heavy cracking or a bond. You go. Ohh. I'm gonna throw at that thing. It's 40 feet out, 30 feet down produce you know.
Speaker 5
So. Uh-huh.
Steven:
You. Yeah, it it. It feels like we we we've talked to Danny Herbeck. Steve herbeck. We tried the Smitty's. We're just we're just running our mouths this evening. But you know, it's one of these things where it obviously the date on the calendar does not belie what is happening. Right it it you know it's supposed to be cold but you got what?
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Cold front. It's gonna be hot and blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Where where the fall transition is not happening like the way we want it to. So we got to make augmentations in our game. Where you know, typically like it when when people think typical Northwoods fall, what would what would the staging depths of wall and crappie be?
Speaker 5
Right now? Well, I mean, it just depends on what body of water. Sometimes sometimes, you know, they'll they'll slide. Slide up shallow. Yeah. At some point in time. But it just depends on the body of water you're fishing. Like I fish a lot of clear bodies. All for for my walleyes on that. I fish a lot of clear bodies of water. Yeah. So then they'll go out deep. Yeah, because that's where my confidence is because I can. Scope them. I can go up there and scope them now. You know where you. It's harder to see them moving through the weeds and the shallows, right? Unless if they're just above the weeds.
Steven:
Right, right.
Speaker 5
Right. And I mean when you find them just above the weeds, that's when it's nice and you can and you can see the stuff there. You know, because there's a definite difference. Yep. Cast this way. Cast that way. So.
Steven:
Right. And this is bam bam, bam, bam, yeah.
Speaker 3
What?
Steven:
What? What are you hearing at the counter and at the shop first Muskies?
Speaker 5
It's been up and down. It's been up and down. I had one of my clients got one on. What's today today is Saturday. Today's Sunday. Yeah. So on? Yeah. My day's kind of been running together on on Friday, Saturday, my client got one in about 6 feet of water on a muskie caught about a 45 inch. Or.
Steven:
Yes, I think. Yeah, me too, bud. Yeah.
Speaker
Uh-huh.
Speaker 5
So he's having a heck of a year Jeff Voss's name. He got a giant with me this year while trolling. Got got a 47 inch here. Now he's got a 45 and a 40 and all that under his belt. So he's. Quite addicted, and he's even gotten some some to go on. Suckers too. When he's had times so the sucker bites picking up.
Steven:
Right. We were talking about that. We were talking about that with her back and and and when it warms back up the the concern is going to be hard to keep them alive. But it seems like, you know, it's going to be a hot spell. Before things drop back off, obviously with doing your walleyes and all this stuff, how do you keep live bait alive?
Speaker 5
Well, for me myself personally, I just I I've purchased throughout the years. I got a couple of those angle bait buckets or even a friable bait bucket that's got an aerator and that's what I'll use for my red tail chubs and that. For this time of year.
Speaker 2
From the well insulated, you know, I mean they're they're going in cool. You know the the the water coming from at the shop.
Speaker 5
Yep, they're going in. Cool.
Speaker 2
Is very cool.
Speaker 5
Yep, 55° usually so.
Steven:
I think a lot of the problem is like. Well, we're not till live bait. If you guys are not caught on, we're not to live bait yet. But think about it. Because when you throw them in your live well in the boat that you've had sunscreen in, right. You've had your sunscreen. You've had a a bottle of stable 14 beers, right? And some deep, you had a bottle of.
Speaker 3
Yep.
Steven:
Deep woods off in there in the summer. The first batch of suckers are dead.
Speaker 5
Right. They're done. They're done.
Steven:
Right. You just, well welcome to the intoxicant level. You're dead, right?
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2
And then there's the guy that's like, oh, my life, who's all dirty? I'm going to, you know, get some bleach and really clean this thing out. It's like that takes like. All there's scum lines in it. 567 rinses before the bleach content is, you know, washed out of there. Yep.
Steven:
Suckers are the softest fish on planet Earth. They're like you look at them. I'm dead, right?
Speaker 5
Yeah. Uh-huh. Or Freddy, Freddy plays with the kids inside the muskie shop and drops them on their heads. Then then they're dead. Yep. Then the boss comes in the next day and there's a floater. He's like.
Steven:
You. You. Dead. They're dead, right?
Speaker 5
You're playing with the suckers again.
Steven:
Fred is always. That's the.
Speaker
See what?
Speaker 2
Deal. So seen it 100 times.
Steven:
Freddy's getting written up yet again for playing with the soccer, so you know. Fred, what is the do you think when this so we have a we we have a cold front in in the Northwoods in in Canada as well it's going to peak up it's going to get hot again and then probably drop off the Cliff what is kind of like. And the reason we want to call is because you do multispecies which is cool. Right. Yeah, you know, it's what is the vibe on the 1st like when when temperatures actually start to drop for real for real on croppie and walleye as far as you know, thinking about them as a musky forge base when temperatures. Finally, drop into the 60s for real. What's the staging of crappie and muskies in that northern habitat?
Speaker 5
You know, they'll slide in shallow one more time. Before they go before they go. Back out, you know.
Speaker 2
What is the magic? What is the magic timing there with the? With the fall. Crappy bike cause a lot of people look. Forward to that.
Speaker 5
No, I I just remember last year I and I can't look back at my page because I I got some stuff that's going on. I did really well and. October last year all the way up through like middle where I was catching crappies on 9 feet of water and I would say that the water temp was probably, you know, still in that 60° mark 60° surface temp you know and they were in nine feet. And then on one lake. I've got my my one lake that I go to where I know there's suspended and that's my my game saver there. So and they're I I'll catch them all the way to November out there suspended and. That's usually can be. You know, into the upper upper 50s. Yes, I'll still get them. Yep. Yep.
Steven:
Really. What? What, what? What? Let me ask you this. When would you say best? But again, it's it moves everything. What is the the the temperature number on your your on your transom transducer you're trying your transducer. When Croppies go deep, what's the number? We go boom, they're down.
Speaker 5
No, it varies, but I checked them.
Jay:
It's very good.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 5
Yeah, it is very vague and in general because I'll, you know, I'll give them some, you know some, you know, I catch them from spring till fall all year long usually. And obviously as we all know others good days and bad days and fishing you know fronts always mess with it. I like to have the sun peeking out a little bit and.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 5
You know, so like tomorrow my game plan cause I got walleye and crappie. I'm going to start chasing the walleyes cause I'm sure it'll still be a little bit cold. Cool. In. The morning and we'll start while I fishing over some sand bars in the 2627 foot. Range with like I said, crawlers and and red tailed chubs and then around 10/30 11:00 we'll go start chasing some crappies in the weeds and if I can't find them in the weeds then I'll go suspend it. Michael funded.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. And and and then after that the, the, the, the optimal question is when does that just go dead? Meaning like your when does that that panfish or or walleye bite just go extremely deep when are you just done when you just go and I'm not asking this again you're an excellent guide for walleye and panfish and muskies as well when are you just going everything so deep it's inaccessible.
Speaker 5
Yeah, I like when, like end of like early November. I mean, I I've caught him in early November, but like I don't like to go after the walleyes when it gets to be that late because when you're pulling them out. Of that deep of water. Their bladder that is not good for them when they get up past that 40. 40 foot mark when you're fishing 40 feet deep, right? Because their their bladder will explode when you bring them up out of the water. Out of that deeper water when you're fishing.
Steven:
Right, right.
Speaker 5
With jigging crawlers.
Steven:
And and what's the water temp somewhere in that neighborhood?
Speaker 5
Somewhere around 9 is going to be probably 50s, low 50s, yeah.
Steven:
50 what? What? Let me ask you this loaded question. But so the walleyes dropped down that deep. Right. Obviously some muskies will follow them down. Is that the same time period, do you think suckers move up and Muskies Dow in on those or what? What what because?
Speaker 5
I would have to say I would have to think so I would have to think so.
Steven:
That's why I'm thinking, yeah, because.
Speaker 5
And then and then and then and then we're going to have the then you. Get. The then then the white fish will start sliding up and come in white fish and and Cisco and that and they slide in shallow and then the Muskies will start chasing those too, when? When the.
Steven:
MHM. Right, because I always thought if you're, if you're a small sucker, you're on the menu for a big Walla.
Speaker 5
Right, absolutely.
Steven:
Right. So you got. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. And they kind of pass each other in a glancing blow. And then the white fish move up and the Muskies always muskies. And in general, right, given their druthers, are mid depth, too shallow water predators, if not shallow.
Speaker 2
Printers correct.
Steven:
And there's that transition, Fred, let me ask you this and and you're you're killing it. Your info is amazing. As A and leave Muskies off the table, right? Forget muskies. How do you what do walleye, panfish, suckers and other bait fish do? When we finally hit turnover?
Speaker 5
Ohm. Berries. They'll still slide up shallow. I mean, they're still there. You know, it's not like they pack up and. Leaves. You know they're there. I just generally try to. Myself, for myself, personally. Rule of thumb, I I usually generally stop phishing them in in November just because.
Speaker
Uh-huh.
Speaker 5
I'm wore out by that time of the year, you know, between working in the shop. But you know, they they still side up shallow. They're they're still somewhat shallow. They're still a good shallow bite going on in November.
Steven:
Right. Heck yeah, guys. Well, you know what? It's kind of awesome, Fred. We love. We love to. We love your wieners. Every year, Jay, Jay, Jay, you spend 12 months thinking about Frede wieners, correct?
Speaker 5
That's right.
Speaker 2
Not really well.
Steven:
But anyway, Fred always has great info guys. If you need info on what is happening with bait fish for muskies, which are typically really good fair for anglers. If you need to understand while I croppie movements in the north. Would there's nobody I trust more than Fred and Fred. That's super informative because you spend such like a diverse amount of time on the water. Where? Yeah, if Fred is a ******** muskie angler, but Fred's going to take you out and bend that rod and put fish in the boat and he's the first guy to ask when it comes to walleye and and and cropping movements and. And things we would consider to be baked for Muskies, but they're pan filler. So Fred, thank you so much, buddy. We'll catch up with you soon, alright?
Speaker 5
Sounds good guys. Have a good one. You too, buddy. Bye, friend. Thanks, Jay. What do you think of that, bud?
Speaker 2
That's Fred. That's Fred. You mean spot on. You know, that's exactly. I mean, he's been talking that. Yeah, countless people coming in, really asking him the same questions all week.
Steven:
It's. It's getting I mean. Well, and that's the thing. It's like, obviously you can call the shop or what what whatever you want to do, you know. You know it it it's it's. It it's just one of those deals where you go, he understands what's happening with the, with the wall and the pan fish and which is very, very, very useful.
Speaker 2
It's you sold to a good Muskingum.
Steven:
Absolutely. So anyway, let's hit some Q&A here. Tyler. Hey. Thanks for the feedback. My first question, we're going to be fishing on Eagle from basically porties bit of Vermillion Bay and then the whole restaurant will the same taxes apply there as you answered the first time, just trying to get the best use of our time here. Absolutely right. So you're going to be dealing with clear water. What an eagle. Whatever Herbeck said in in Daddy Herbeck said, you need to be serious about it, right? Those guys know it, Jordan SP. While flooding that small a small small numbers river, I lean on my 11 foot flat bottom. I found myself casting towards the bank. A typical cover with some luck. On my third ski of the day, I realized these fish were not, in fact, being caught off cover but structure instead. Secondly, second fish came early in the retreat all over this little farm field. Drainage ditches that carved out small chasm a bit. Fish came from nowhere under the boat in my 8, my boat was over the first break and I was casting at the bank once again. Structure. It hit me that what was exactly going on is what you preach consistently. Now I'm targeting only small Creek beds and counting two to four fish per moon phase. And now I need to learn how to catch them off moon. I've tried throwing but it's hard to give given the challenges of the rear. I'm targeting inept throwing top water. And and provide me a little conference, I'm about to go and try to jig these deep breaks between moon phases. What else should I try between serious thing? Fantastic you. That's very cool. Yeah. I came home, boys. Homeboy. I came home to no weeds, right? Nothing. And and and and I love. Nothing more than the exploit of nature of fishing weed bits, muskies like weeds. We all know it right well.
Speaker 2
Yeah, just trying to weed that is awesome. Sure.
Steven:
All right, weeds and top water and Bucktails whoopty Doo. Turn the handle fish on in. Well, I came home to now roasty and toasty, put four in the boat today 4.
Speaker 2
But. Yeah.
Steven:
Alright. 3 / 40.
Speaker 2
Fishing structure, you know that you concentrating on structure versus the cover element that you're used to in the summer. On your body of. Water. That's cool.
Steven:
Right. So is, is is fantastic as cover is. When structures devoid of cover structure Trump's all, whether Trump's all structure Trump's all covers 1/3 consideration. The fourth being seasonality. Right. Where, when and why we are actually I. I even think about this. We're talking about seasonality, this whole thing, what's happening? Why is the fall so warm? Well, season out is kind of wonky. Donkey, right? It's just the never ending summer. But what are Musk? You going to do now? He's saying he's having good bites, right. In off moon periods or moon periods.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven:
That means your fish are dialed in on some kind of solar events or lunar event, but that will change what you need to do is assess what structures are they feeding from these in Creek beds. Often Creek beds lead into shallow zones, littoral zones they lead into feeding areas. And need to observe them. They would adhere to those patterns for pretty much the entire shell.
Speaker
Never.
Steven:
Right. You know, if it's not superbly deep in any capacity, they're gonna adhere to that. So understanding that deeper. And going where does this Creek bed terminate? Is where I'm going to be in off moon or non prime periods. Muskies seek deep refuge when they're not predating. However, if you drop it on their head, you might get reaction. So what does that Creek bed actually do? Does it come out and to yoke out into to a upper? You know, if you think. Think about it. In the upstream might be eroded. The downstream might be a bar or a curvature. Understand the deeper composition and the connectivity. Right, Jay? Me and you did it the other day, and this is a great example. We were hungry. We were hungry. Boys hungry like the wolf.
Speaker 2
MMMMM.
Steven:
We waited in the parking lot until the restaurant opened. Right. We did it. We waited in the parking lot and then we went to the restaurant when they're supposed to open. It didn't open, so we found an alternative food source.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
Think about that.
Speaker 2
Yep.
Steven:
The the the restaurant ain't open, so we we we sat in your car. And that that didn't play. So we went across the street. How do things connect? What is the closest? Feeding zone near prime structure and. Cover exactly what happened, right? It is just baseline survivalism at.
Speaker 2
That point cause you were you were hungry. You were getting really irritable and cramping. And you'll want. I must eat now and I'm like. Combative. I have an alternative, Steve. Here we go. Buckle up. Boom, we're.
Steven:
Haven't down. Calm down. Calm down. Buckle. There, but it's the baseline core line thing. You go food is available here allegedly. How do we get there? We go down this road and we turn here. That is structure. I said in the book you see McDonald's, you see the connectivity when it resonates with you. Finally, when you finally find the thing that resonates with your holy crap, he's not autistic. It just freaking is. It's a freaking fireworks in your face. Go ahead. Sorry, I'll somebody sent me a picture of a dead muskie on the ice. Thank you so much for that. That's what I wanted to say. One wonderful.
Speaker 2
Well, it's pleasant. Not really.
Steven:
Congratulations. You're * ****. So. Aunt Brendon is. I get guys, I get this on occasion. Like here's a muskie I killed on a swim. Do you? What do you think about that? I'm just send him a thumbs up. Brandon, is there any word on when the swim bait tells for the cracking of the pull? Tails will be out. I bought four of them because you guys. Said the swim bait tail. Oh yes. OK. We deal with manufacturing a lot of the things they will show up very soon.
Speaker
Yes.
Steven:
So. Yes, the answer is yes. So. I don't do comparisons, but when you see the head roll and the swagger on this, you're going to die. When you see the magnets, your head's going to explode. I got some swim bait things for you boys, I promise you that. So the crack and tail kits will be out very shortly. They're coming. They're coming. It is again. Is the nature of the beast. Jess, I usually try to avoid other anglers in the morning. I'm finding this more difficult to do with increased angling pressure. If two birds are drawing towards one another or you're both working the same weed edge, just one boat have the right of way over the other. I'm typically fishing large rivers are there unwritten rules for anglers and boat control. So there are there are written rules on on boating for sure, right?
Speaker 2
Yeah, there's written rules, sure.
Steven:
I'm I'm a Coast Guard cap and I should be able to rattle that off the top of my head, so I'm not going. To because it'll be wrong. You know there's a CHEAT SHEET, Jay, where you flip up the thing, says port and starboard.
Speaker 2
Well passed passed to the.
Steven:
Right. Yeah, so.
Speaker 2
Just like uncommon trap. Look.
Steven:
It's a game of chicken some days.
Speaker
Umm.
Steven:
You know, and especially if you're trawling, you know it is what it is. All I remember from my Coast Guard captains test is sailboats rule the earth. Other than that, I would fail, right? You just it's in one ear out the other.
Speaker
Hmm.
Speaker 2
What about if? You encounter a catamaran. What do you do?
Steven:
Unpowered vessels always have right away. Ah.
Speaker 2
Now let me ask you questions more often like that.
Steven:
Now, now, things, things that I had to study and I just went wow. This is stupid. What is boat passing? Google thinking boat? And. Now come on. My keyboard is so crusty. Each vessel in the meeting situation. Must alter course starboard that each will pass port to port. Right. That's what I thought. That's what it is. So you need port to port right? So if they're going to port to starboard, you're in. You're in the right. They're wrong. So port to port should be your meeting. Port your left side. I'm pretty sure I fish off the port some of that.
Speaker 2
Which is left side. That's pretty back memories, isn't.
Steven:
It. Oh my God. I had to like to get my captains license. Dude, I had to, like, do all this ****. It was so stupid cause you had to be like. I have the navigational chart. Port is the left side of your boat, starboard. So port to port. So if you're heading due north. That's the deal, and no one cares. And they will just cut you off so no one knows that. I'm I am mentally bereft of any memory. And it is what it is. So use your flare gun. Let them know they're passing on the wrong thing. Wrong thing, Casey. Thank you, Steven Jay for this joyful and very inner motional informational podcast and emotional podcast, Jay.
Speaker 2
Emotional usually, yeah.
Steven:
Love you.
Speaker 2
You're breaking my.
Steven:
Heart breaking my heart. I'm gearing up for my first Muskie outing. I've done my purchasing research by studying your book and taking notes of this podcast. I'm looking for every four. I look forward to every Monday morning for the next episode. Well, thank you so much. Much appreciate it. Put a hognose hours in your net. It would make me that would make me superbly.
Speaker 2
So that guy came in Friday. Nicest guy in the world and he did it as soon as he saw me. He turned around. Fred was was. No, I didn't know. Fred. Fred was, you know, you know, telling, talking crappy tactics with him or something. He turned on. He goes. Hey, I love your videos and.
Steven:
You know the guy.
Speaker 2
I'm. Like, hey, thanks a lot, you know? And he went off with Fred and they were doing something in the backroom. I don't know what he came back later and he was checking out at the counter and he was talking and and he's talking with Fred and he starts talking with me and also he kind of recognized my voice because actually he wanted. He was buying your book among other things. Right. He wanted autographed. And I'm like, well, you know, she's not in town, but we can, you know, he's coming and coming back. Into town and. Jake and and he goes and then he goes jaybird like also like collected from the podcast too. So it was like.
Speaker 5
Ohh, uncomfortable yeah.
Speaker 2
It was, it was funny.
Steven:
That's awesome, Shannon says. I use the Joe Book or shallow writers, depth writers on European Pike with a lot of. Steps. Is taking the middle treble hook off in certain situations, taking the little away from the design? Joe innovative? I can't get enough of my 6360 the work you guys do is awesome. Thank you. Lot of cheers this evening.
Speaker
Thanks.
Steven:
You're not taking away. All you're doing is augmenting the the weight profile. The bait, right? So.
Speaker 2
Yeah, you're talking about with three. Treble hooks anyway? No. Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Right, which is overkill. That's a whole other conversation, but.
Speaker
You know.
Steven:
You're reducing the weight by grams. I know these. I know European measurement from my 20s. Jay learned a lot about it, right? I get it. You know, whatever.
Speaker 2
If you took a teeth off that.
Steven:
Teeth. Well, you learn the metric system when you're like I am.
Speaker 2
Oh, OK, got.
Steven:
You the hard way, so you're reducing the bait. Overall weight profile by grim. So if you like the running depth. But you don't want a third hooks. Let's say you would don't want a third hook because of mortality or deep hook and cause a lot of times Pike just freaking smoke stuff. You might be well served by weighing how many grams of that hook and adding that much weight in that central section via lead, lead tape or tennis racket tape or storm suspend dots or something of that nature. So as we add and or remove weight via hooks and split rings. We're augmenting the potential running depth of the debate based upon our cast length. Right. So when I want a bait to run shallower. Removing a hook or two hooks or. Whatever it might be. Helps with that running deeper, increasing the hooks or increasing the gauge of the hooks gains more depth.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, you. And and you just mentioned. It's funny, Joe. Joe Butcher posted. I think it was Joey posted a picture of a Pike that. You know, it's like, why do they always do this? You know, you lose Muskies and, but you know, Pike, it never seemed to miss it. And it was like, you know, 2 trouble, just beating them up. Just a nightmare. Right on a small fish. And it just happened to me too, you know, it was like a I think it was a suit or something. And the thing got 2 treble hooks in there, you know, this is. Again a a triple treble hooked. Date, you know, and they're fairly close together and it's just like, you know, pretty difficult to get those hooks out of that little pipe without injuring it. And it's just, you know, it's taking time off the water because it's like. Trying to get those things out of there and it's just like you go with a 2 hook thing like you just said. You could always increase the hook size and wait a little bit, maybe not on a sewer, but at a depth. Rater where? You know that you're not far apart. Hey, good modification, and it might be, you know, quicker and easier and actually safer for the fish.
Steven:
You know, it just is what it is, you know? I mean, most most people are never going to be simply. Simply put, most people will never be dialed in enough to tell the difference. But. A few grams here, there or percentage of Oz can be the difference, right? It's it's minutiae, it's proximity. It's this. So, you know, being aware of that. Now, if you're throwing these baits with the middle hook remove and you feel as though you're getting the same amount of action.
Speaker
Oh.
Steven:
Don't worry about it. Piker heating and the picker heating it. But be aware that it if you augment a bit. I don't care what beta it is. It could be a crack and it could be a Cisco kid. It could be whatever when you augment. The bait by changing or or replacing hooks, things get slightly different. The more drastic of a change via hook weight hook size essentially will change things. So it becomes apparent something we promised and again we we trying to make false promises. Jay, we have to do the freaking the hook database this this winter.
Speaker 2
All the hooked database for the apps.
Steven:
Yeah, we, we we dropped the the Smitty's screw that.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
No, they didn't, but it sounds good. We need to do. We need to do that. So we have a deeper understanding. What hooks the exact models and the weighting thereof. So we'll work on that. Mark, my word. But when you augment abate by any changes, you're augmenting the lift, the drop, the running depth. You know, sometimes people will over augment baits where they kill the action. You know A1 for one replacement if it's working and one for one. It's far more important than than just kind of Willy nailing it anyway, Jay Burton. I'm back. Back in the fold, I'm back in black. Baby back at home.
Speaker 2
In the saddle again.
Steven:
Freaking back in Silly town doing my thing. Jaybird say goodnight. Thanks guys. Avita saying.
www.tennesseemuskyfishing.com
www.tnmusky.com
www.nextlevelmuskyfishing.com
www.southernmuskyfishing.com
www.musky360.com