Musky 360 Podcast
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 358: Musky Season Wrap-Up with Danny Herbeck and Joe Cooper
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 255: Gettin' Messy with Esse
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 253: New Musky Gear and Massive Q&A
Transcript
Steven
Alright folks, welcome to the Muskie 360 podcast. Jay bird. State birth statement it's hot. It is hot down South. Ohh, you were watching the Packers and Titans. It looks steamy, steamy over there. Is it finally cooled down a smidge?
Jay
Hey, what's happening today?
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Speaker
Jay
Yeah, yeah. Would cold front go through? It's like 60° for our day. So that'll.
Steven
Yeah. Nice. That'll knock it down a little bit. For instance, things going. It's been the constant complaint. It's almost the end of September. It's like earth, wind and fire with the 21st of September. What are we looking at now? It's 22nd. Excuse me.
Jay
It will. We'll get.
Steven
Glass. You know it's it's a little late in the game to be that hot that you guys were just dealing with, you know, Herbie, Herbie called me a few days ago, and he was just like, it's it's nasty. You know, a lot of pea soup and places still. What are you hearing? What are you seeing for all the the folks that are coming up there for that fall bike?
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
Jay
Yeah, yeah, it's it's actually been pretty good fishing, you know, it's just like one day, you know, people get multiple fish. The next day, it won't be so great. You know, typical Muskie, you know, results. But yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
Jay
Based on the majors and minors and and you know the the shallow weed thing has still been strong.
Steven
There you. Well, throw it and turn the handle, throw it and turn the handle. That's good stuff, you know.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Steven
So. Can't go wrong there. We might as well let the cat out the Peruvian back. Yes. So we've been teasing you and if you guys are trollers, you're going to be a happy camper, I begged. I pleaded. I begged and pleaded. I offered favors that that I will regret. Here. To death, supernatural to make us something exceptional that you're going to be able to get your hands on at the Muskie shop. He cracked out a batch of the brand new the way he's doing it, that's a different joint. All this stuff, 12 inch jointed, headlocks Jay, they're going to be out when you just got them. You saw your, you got them in your hands. I had the demo. When you do, you did the video. What's cooking, man?
Speaker 2
Yep.
Jay
Yeah, we're going to put them on sale Wednesday morning at 9:00 AM Central Wednesday the. 25th of September, just a few short days away. No, it's first come, first serve. So we got five different colors, which is cool, because how long has it been? Six years since any were made. Roughly. Yeah, something like that, you know.
Steven
5th, there ain't a lot of them. Not a lot of them. I guess I don't know. And then the first time they were made in and their killers. You know, they're killers. It's it's. It's one of these deals. I actually went and shot a video that Jays did, the underwater. I sort of shot shot the tutorial of the ones I'm playing with. Duff was kind enough to make me one quick to play with and of course, go go out there and smack one with it. It it's a it does the same stuff. You're supernatural baits do, but it's got the joint in it, which I like it for a slower look. Right. And here's what I learned.
Speaker 2
MMM.
Steven
That it is the baddest like speed up, slow down float. Up bait I've. Ever seen? So supernatural rock on their way up this thing has a wicked action on the float up, so surge, stop, surge, stop, surge, stop, surge. Stop. Every time that things floating. It's just nasty because the tail is. Moving when float up so. This late season stuff you hear on occasion, Jim will be on the podcast The Tube Screamer, and we'll talk about jerk trolling. We'll talk about cold water, trolling and tactics like that. Anytime you're getting in these fall temps that propelled forward, then float up right, whether it be, you know, a dive and rise bait troll like RIP trolling or surging with these baits because it looks so good on the flood and the, you know, the back brakes. So when it floats. Yep, it's a. Like this it's it's it looks very wounded and that tail section is just wagging around. So you've got an extra bit of motion there. The other thing is this is in the corners, Jay. When I'm turning with that thing right when I'm taking these jointed headlocks and making corners, they seem to scoot out quite a bit.
Jay
Yeah.
Steven
Right. So it's got a little bit more mojo in the turn it's going to help you connect with some fish if you're a serious troller or you are you're looking for a monster, get your hands on them. Like I said, it's it's, you know, sounds corny. Duff can only make so many, and I had to beg Jay. I think I gotta. I gotta. Mow his yard or something.
Jay
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, we'll put the video out tomorrow on YouTube. So music shop, YouTube channel. Check it out. The thing looks great. And you had a lot of good points on it, too. It's still got that that, you know, supernatural, high speed, kind of trolling effect to it. But you said, you know, when you slow down.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I've picked. Ohh yeah yeah.
Jay
Two at slower speeds you you know.
Steven
Yeah, it was cool.
Jay
It's it's something that's.
Steven
And it's.
Jay
Jointed crankbaits you know they excel at slower speeds.
Steven
And that's The thing is like the illusion of speed that that's the whole trick. Like whether be a joint like the Pounder from Livingston or A to a depth rate or whatever jointed crank that you want to do. They have more.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Motion. If you want lower speeds. Because of the joint. So they run your typical casting crank baits is just about say about the trolling charts on this they run typically just as mid shallower than the standard so. With the 12 inch jointed, I'm adding about two to three feet to get the exact same running depth that you see. Like if you go on the musty 360 app, there's the trolling chart for the 12 inch headlock, right? Add 3 feet. That's it, right. So about 3 feet extra. We'll have that thing running exactly. Where the non joiner will but that that that motion like I said in the turns, especially when you're turn like I was saying like that dig in and all this stuff on the turn. Like if you imagine when that's on the inside of a turn, not only is it floating up, but it's digging a little bit more left, right? So I like it. It's cool. It's it's gonna be one of those things. If you get them while you can, you know if you're. If you're serious about big fish and serious about throwing. I talked to Jim about it. Talk to Duff. So we've got the gizzard or not gizzard. But the black rice super popular thing. You've got a shad, you've got Superman. You've got some perch. You've got a freaking white. No walleye. So you. It's got all your bases covered there. So you know, it's cool. Excited about that. We've been teasing it, but Duff delivered, and then he sent me a picture of himself and his apron in the shop looking foolish. I'm stoked about those guys. Those are going to be.
Speaker 2
Yep, Yep, I agree.
Steven
Where the big water fishing. I mean, it doesn't matter where you're going to go, you're going to put them in the boat with that. Then the comings and the goings at the Muskie shop talked about last week threw it. Up. Magnus is up there on the on the promo where you can get signed up for it. That's going to be coming out after the first. Of the year but. Jay, I freaking took that thing out down here at home and it is dynamite. They say Jay. Yeah. Yeah. Jays been playing with one too, but nasty, nasty results on video. I'll tell you that much. But anyway, before we well, what was I going to say? What else showed up here?
Jay
So I know, I know.
Steven
Well, the boss shared stuff, which is cool. Yeah. I mean, yeah, the entire boss shared from a 4.5 to the 8 inch. I'm looking here, they make killer stuff. I I believe everything's handmade. I'm. I'm 99. It is. Yeah. And. And so custom little trolley.
Jay
But yeah, the lost shared family. Very cool.
Speaker 2
Yes, they are.
Steven
Casting cranks boshes we have all the trolling charts on the app. If you want to add them to your repertoire, Jay. You have all the running depths right there, but they're cool, man. Especially. I've done well in the past. The one that that I've had the most experience with is the the seven inch. Shallow boss shed. Right. Which is, which is kind of a pan fishy body. I've definitely had experience with it, but the the the 8 inch menu looks like some casting options. I mean, they're cool stuff. You cannot go wrong there. It's kind of like I'm glad that we got them because if you've done, if you've done well at any point with like tough shad, you know, trying to talk about.
Jay
Steven
Sure. So the tough, she had great bait. This is a cool alternative for that. You know, I'm saying so it's like the Jake and the grandma, if you will. Or if you're, if you're downsized, trolling. Office. You can cast them at great trolling baits and and it's a nice mix up kind of in that custom vein for that. That mid range deal, right, there's there's not a lot of baits. I mean you can get your. Cool. Some some crankbaits that are like basically what I would I personally refer to as. Like. Bass baits? You know what I'm saying? Like some of the mass produced ones where these are are definitely driven for for muskie fishing and you don't have to worry about. So those are cool. Got a handful of the ledge and plow. Stuff. Legend. Outcast you've got. Those handful of those still kicking anything else going on, I can't.
Jay
Believe those were going really fast really fast.
Steven
I'll tell you what's crazy. It's funny. It's like we wait, you know, months and nothing's happening. It's like you sort of. We always get like, the the comings and the goings of the muskie shop and it gets real hot and heavy right in the early spring. And then nothing happens. This year's been crazy for the amount of stuff we've gotten late in the year.
Jay
Yeah. And there's more coming, too. Yeah, there's a couple other cool dates coming soon, I hope, before you know well into October, at least, you know.
Steven
There's more coming, always. Oh. Yeah, people are still still fishing.
Jay
You can still use them.
Steven
This year? Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. So and then. Ohh God something else. So we said the the Livingston crack and paddle tail and the curly tail will be the. They have shipped from Livingston to the Muskie shop. They're they're on the way, can't. Can't control them.
Jay
Yeah, you're in transit right now. So yeah, hopefully within a couple of days, we'll.
Steven
Have them look, you know, whoever had them on their truck was probably drunk in the parking lot at the truck stop, Jay. And I've got a little lot lizard action. Like, I don't want to live room.
Jay
Little boy. Could be on the train and this you know. Truck stop there. Ohh, you know that would be devastating. Yeah, bad news.
Steven
Guaranteed places that I can guarantee you could blow a ****** is a truck stop you put. Been there grinds to a halt. ******** gone. Transmissions, John, right? Exactly. Jays filmed it thousands of times anyway, and it is. It is what it is. Guys, I have to. I'm excited about it. Yeah, I'm leaving on a jet plane, Jay.
Jay
She wants to see under.
Speaker 2
Very.
Jay
I'm excited too.
Steven
Why? Cause I'll be gone, not bothering you.
Jay
No, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a great adventure. I mean, you're going with Eric from Livingston. You're going to that huge hole again. And hungry.
Steven
Yeah, going to have. That would be, yeah, going.
Speaker 2
Can you hear me?
Jay
To bringing the Magnus and bringing the. Pain as they.
Steven
Say yeah, headed over there. Went last year. Gotta gotta. By which I still have it's in my office. It's kind of shock, to be honest with it's kind of shock got award.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
For. The the Titan, which was cool again, you know freaking. It's kind of like, you know, you know, some award you won in 4th grade. My mom.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Will keep it. Whatever. But it was cool. I was very honored and it was me. I got to meet so many interesting people. One of the coolest things ever which is talk about the opportunity to hang out. With the guy.
Speaker 2
Freaking.
Steven
Heck, the the the copy who makes it strike King strike. Strike. Excuse me. Got to hang out with Steve from strike pro. The owner of that coming from freaking Japan.
Jay
For all.
Steven
You know, so that was cool.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Steven
And you know, a lot of different stuff. So and there's this company, these dudes that are from Estonia. That have been. Killing it on cracking right they are. They are Pike influencers from Estonia. I actually remember I sent you that video.
Speaker 2
Steven
The one where the guy that he's holding up about four or five weeks ago and he's holding up the bike, but those guys are going to be. So what I'm going to do next week is is there'll be a slight delay. I think we'll have it. Typically if we miss Sunday, we get on Monday, I'm going to try to interview as many people as I can, Jay, next week. So we have, it'd be cool. Like I said, I really want to pick.
Speaker 2
Steven
Steve from strike Pro, you know, here. Here's a Japanese bait maker. How many opportunities do you have to be in the same room with him or some of these pipe guys? And and and hopefully you know the company Weston that makes Muskie pipe stuff is going to be there and all these different things I'm going to do my damnedest to get.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, bro.
Steven
Some of these guys to sit down and and and maybe I'll just record on my phone or something like that and try to pick their brain about what's going on and try to find out what's happening. Cause if there's anything cool. That is going to be applicable for for muskie fishing in the next year. Literally what's coming out where I'm about to see it in a matter of days. So I will report back in on that, I might.
Jay
No doubt, no doubt about it, yeah.
Steven
Even. Who knows? I'll film some video and see if it's usable or anything like that, that of of some of the stuff that's going on because I'm kind of excited about it. It's it's always neat because. You know the Pike guys borrow from Muskie and we borrow from Pike and you know you look at Savage Gear, which is totally a European company and now they're in the Muskie game and vice versa. And you look at Livingston and and and we were, you know, primarily pushing Muskies and it's going into Pike pretty Dang well over there. So I'll try to report back as much as I can and try to sit down with some of the. People. I I I believe that some of the people from Shimano like of Japan will be there, so I'll try to figure out, you know, it's it there. There's quite a bit of gap between a lot of these companies where it's just like, yeah, I can get the smitty's on the phone pretty easy, you know? But it's like, remember we tried to do the. Interview with my. That's ohh man. Guy, no.
Jay
You know, it was. Yeah, it was. We're trying to get a hold of them. Yeah. He was in Thailand or something at the time, you know, on the.
Steven
Yeah, aren't they? Aren't they? Aren't they all in?
Jay
Water and it was just just like.
Steven
Thailand. No, really. Again, back-to-back to the truck stop. Yeah, he's he's in Thailand for a thing, but nonetheless, that was that was tough. And then, you know, we had people emailing again. We we tried to. I tried to create. It's like here we have bad signal and then you have really hard. Accidents and things of that nature, so I'll try to squeeze out some some usable stuff on my there's such a different scene, you know what I'm saying? And then see how much more of the guys that fish, those whales catfish have stole from us.
Speaker
Just cause it's.
Steven
I learned last year they figure out those things, the well campers. The giant campus. Yeah. So there's. Yeah, they do all that funky stuff. So I'll report back on that and see what kind of buffoonery I can get in again, you know, it's.
Jay
What just come on? Yeah. OK. OK.
Steven
Just like should be. Good. Well, you know, between that and. All the other stuff. And I believe we'll see, I think in the spring, there's going to be another European filming trip. More on that later, but that's that's the combo now, going somewhere even weirder than the Netherlands guy. Like, I'm talking like way out in the like he might be skinned and ransomed.
Speaker 2
Hmm. Hmm.
Steven
You know, we'll see we have before I cut out of here and and go across the pond mate.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Is that what they say? Oh, no, wrong. Wrong accent. Good day.
Jay
No, you're. You're you're thinking about Australia.
Speaker 2
Oh.
Steven
My. Good day anyway, Frank. Cut out that we got a ton of Q&A catch up on a lot of gear talk. So we're gonna jump into it. John, I'm new to musky fishing and now and have it listen to your podcast reading Mr. Paul's book. Well, he called me Mr. Paul. That's funny.
Speaker 2
Steven
And no one likes me. That's a good it's it's appreciate it. No brevity needed. I promise. Yeah. And he says he says I'm absorbing everything I can.
Jay
Is. 1.
Steven
Your information is help me immensely. I want to take a fall trip. I'm trying to decide where to go. I live in Duluth and there are two places I'm considering. Lake of the woods and the Minocqua area. I hear you guys talking about how pressure the waters of minocqua are as a new muskie hunter I am am I better surf fishing? The bigger water like the woods. Please let me know. What's what? What I should do you know, is bigger. Better if you're in Duluth. My knee jerk reaction is go. Like what? That would be me, but it's really not that far from minocqua. It's a different. OK, let's, let's, let's back this down to this Jay, right. Action. Are we looking for action? He's new to the game or looking for action. Are we looking for big opportunity? Which heading to the the North Woods might be a little more manageable? I knee jerk to Canada. But you know, if he's newer in the game. You know, I mean, it's not that, you know, here, here in this fall trip. I mean, what's it? What's it shaping up to be in, like, October? You know, what can what? What's a good day? I mean, I I haven't spent I'm I'm going to be up there actually when I get back from Hungary's house. A whole other conversation. We'll have another live from Jays dungeon, you know, a good moderate sized lake, perfect conditions this fall. I mean, you can get into what, 234? What's your thoughts?
Jay
Absolutely, it's. Let's just say that Minocqua lakes are pressured. I don't know if that's really accurate. I I don't agree with that. I mean, there's a how many times have you been up here and we've gone out or have we gone out with the tubescreamer even on weekends? And there's really not much muskie pressure. I mean, on some lakes. Yeah, it peaks, summer and stuff like that.
Steven
Well, you're saying.
Jay
Of course, you're going to get water skis and stuff, but pressure compared to southern Wisconsin or maybe mostly anywhere else in the planet.
Speaker 2
Minneapolis. Yeah. No, no, no. There really isn't. So.
Steven
That's the thing. There's there's pressure, but there's pressure. But there's also. No, there's plenty of places to freaking go. I mean.
Jay
I was talking to. Elmer just got back from Lake of the woods. He got back about what, a week ago or something like that and. I asked him. How much? What was the pressure like out there? Mostly he's like, well, actually, there was quite a bit anytime you looked around, you could see several people musky fishing.
Steven
Well, you have you have, I mean like this is as popular as it. Gets.
Jay
Yeah.
Steven
You know, and so American side accent. I don't know, John. I mean it's it's your questions. Great. It's like Lake of the woods would be. I I would did unarguably when you get into Muskies, you're going to have a bigger size class average there, but if you need to put some under your belt. And and see a lot of different stuff than North Woods. Because, I mean, you've got clear stuff. You got tannic stuff, you got rivers, you. Got blah blah, blah, blah blah blah. Exactly. So there's like, I mean it's like we're not working for the tourism board by any means, but pick your poison, you know, like and realistically, I mean.
Speaker 2
With the life.
Steven
Fricking. It's not that far from I've driven from from Jay lives in Saint Germain. What you gotta think about when you get a minocqua, you got Saint Germain. You got Eagle River, right? If you're desperate, you go to slime Lander or plover. Excuse me? You go. That was horrible. You go. I mean, it's a long day. OK. You got a tough one, alright. Hot. I'm tired. I'm hot and bothered. But you've got. So much in the region.
Jay
Well you you've got the highest concentration of freshwater lakes in the world right here in Miles and Nina County. So that's something to be said. You know, it's a lot of small mid sized lakes that choose from, like you said, a variety of different lake types too. It's so cool.
Steven
Right now. But unarguably, if we're going to rock'n'roll for for big fish like Woods, period right now, I would not say that the US side is better than the fall than the Canadian side. Right. So the bottom half of that lake is not anywhere that I would really. I mean, there's fish there, don't get me wrong. But it's not like when you get up in the in the upper section that we can't tell you what to do, but those are kind of like that. That's kind of the juxtaposition. Of the two. Right. So if you feel like, hey, you could tackle like the woods, there's great maps, you'll be fine. You'll be safe, right? Don't let me back that up. Don't take that for granted, but there's plenty of mapping and routes right #1. However, there's great mapping and routes you know on on the north with if you want action you wanted to get dialed in, because if I was like new to the game, right, Jay, I would go. All right, I'm fish my home water. I think the Northwoods would be great where I spend some time there. I get to see a lot of different things and I might not catch a. Gigantosaurus but I can get some practice under my belt and some experience under my belt before I went to the big water.
Speaker
Good.
Jay
Yeah, you go out and he's talking on October trip, right? Because you're so you don't want to get blown off the water too. I mean, you're on a massive, you know, couple 100,000 acres. And it's just like you got a bad wind day. It's like, I don't.
Steven
I don't know, he said. Fall. So I mean, it's late September and we just sent it so. Yeah.
Jay
Think we can get out, you know? Yeah.
Steven
I mean, that's the thing.
Jay
You can just deal with it up here.
Steven
There is, let me put it this way. No comparison between violence and united counties and lake of the woods. However, you know what experience are you looking at? You know what? What? That's the goal. So you're going to learn a bunch on both. And the cool thing for me, you know, and and again hopefully everybody gets the opportunity at some point in their fishing experiences is seeing a lot. Of different water. Right. I think the biggest eye opening thing for me is is fishing from literally the very bottom of the habitat range. All the way to the most northern, I fished tiger Muskies literally around Washington. Seattle just just near minutes from the Pacific Ocean, right? And then on the East Coast. So those are all experiences that I have under my belt where I understand. You know a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. So maybe at some point you consider it's not one or the other, maybe you make time for both because they're they're they're drastically different experiences, right. I would say the Northwoods is going to be more. Because you can hop on different lakes, boat control will be easier. Things of that nature. But like the woods is like the woods. You're on a Canadian Shield lake and and that's where the magic happens. So kind of pick your poison, Jim. The first week of September I went shallow in Minnesota. Water temps were 7°, saw two muskies in low 40s. They're in three to four feet of water and over sand in front of reeds. Jay, that sounds about right. Oh, reeds, shallow water, Minnesota. You got it, baby.
Speaker 2
Yeah, read. Ohh easy.
Steven
Great. A week later, temps are back up to seven. Three, I tried shallow in the deep edge of the weeds, a couple falls and no action. Lots of northern Pike on the weed edge up in the weeds. No muskies. Now what?
Speaker 2
Hello.
Steven
Now what? Well, that's just the ebb and flow of the game, right? You got your hot days. You got your cold days. And I don't mean temperature wise, but you've got you've got a fluctuation and activity level based on climactic changes, things that.
Jay
Which?
Steven
What I would look at is he's saying he's seeing 70 and then he saw 73. Before I would closeout a day where I'm having action. Yeah, shot a couple low 40s. Whatever it is, low, mid 40s. When you're going to wrap up. And you been on good bite. Drive up to where the fish were. Right. And I always encourage people to do this. Once you, let's say you you fished a weed edge, right? You feel like you have saturation. Cast it you have exhausted. That scenario. You can now burn the spot by driving your boat over it or into. It. Get a a. Reed with your trolling motor versus maybe your transom, so you got it. A sonar and your transom, and one of your trolling motor and go. Is it a superficial read? Is it cooler here or is it you know is there a difference between the surface and the trolling motor? Read of two to three feet, right? And take note of that when Muskies are moving, because let's say theoretically you know you saw 70° and it really pushed up shallow, but in reality in that super shallow water it was just, you know a A differential of just a degree or two or whatever it might be right, whereas now where you're reading 73. Is it? Is it? What's the differential? Or is it like the that that shallow segment of the water column, there's no differential between where you're at and where the muskies it's staged, right? Find out. Do a little homework. And that's the hard thing. When when the bite is good, people don't pay attention. Right, people, people check out. They're focused on catching Muskies, which is obviously the cult, but we still need. A lot 5. Freaking seconds to go. What's what is happening today? Let's stop trying to catch 1 and let's analyze in the very moment what is taking place that is influencing this positively. Right. We can all tell each other. We could do a podcast for four days without stopping of things that are bad, right? Right. The ******** and Moaning podcast. Things that are bad. Let's start at jet skis now I'm teasing, but. They they, you know, they got to be seen.
Speaker 2
That.
Jay
But you're right, you know that how many times? You know, people have remarked they were on fire yesterday. Why?
Steven
How come? Yeah.
Jay
What do you figure? What was the deal? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Clouds, you know, or something like that. Maybe it's much detail as that is offered. I.
Steven
Now then.
Jay
Don't know. But I think you're right. I don't think we. You know tend to overanalyze.
Steven
We overheard. No, we overanalyze bad conditions. Yeah, probably. You over. Analyze good conditions. That's when you Start learning more and more. So again.
Jay
What made a great, you know?
Speaker 2
Personal belief.
Steven
Is there a dual temperature read there? Maybe, maybe not. You're seeing Pike on that outside edge, but you're you're not having the musky action looking for. If they're not shallow, you check mid. If they're not mid guess where they're at, they're deep. Right. So we need to check all three phases of the game. Oregon, possibly suspend it. It's Minnesota. So what I would do if if my game plan is not clicking, I assume they're going to be that shallow sand read bite, which is totally a Minnesota thing this time of year. If it's not clicking, you hit that mid thing. You got some. Some follows or whatnot happened there. Go deeper. Right. It's a flick of the tail for them to go out of 6 inches down to 20 feet, right? So. And and like I said, when things are good and this is this is outside of Jim's question, but just generality. Take the time to analyze when things are good. Take the time to analyze. It's 5 minutes. Right. Have a cup of coffee. Stare at a squirrel. What is happening right now is good. Like today, right, Jay, it was miserable, hot, high, bright sun, dead front comp. And then Thunder clouds came. And then there came four Muskies. Well, that's obvious, right? It doesn't take a rocket genius to figure that one out. But when it's nuanced, it's often lost on us. Right. So the more nuanced the buy it is. It it it it just? They're they're on fire today. Like you said, Jack. They're they're moving. That's the difference.
Speaker 2
What do you think?
Speaker 1
Well.
Jay
What about the blue gill guy? There's always a blue gill guy in the area where sea fishing. Ohh, he's up on the edge of the reeds, smoking fish left and right. Remember the blue gill guy when you're in?
Speaker 2
*** ** * *****. Minnesota. Ohh yeah. Oh yeah. There's always one.
Jay
You know well. These are three steps and you know, and if they're catching fish, it's just like.
Speaker 2
Last.
Jay
Attention. What? What Doctor Ed, do you?
Steven
Put putting that. Know what I'm. Putting that quote on your head. There's always.
Speaker 2
A pleasure.
Steven
Great quotes in that. It's true, though it's true and they're, you know, what, they're usually the guy that's blue gill fishing. He's usually so sad. If you go ask. Him how he's doing. He'll talk to you.
Jay
They usually are, yeah. Sometimes they'll talk to you though.
Steven
My wife, my wife Evelyn, left me. I'm out here slaying the. So you know, Sir, why is that blowing around your mouth? I thought I'd catch a few more before I blew my face off. OK.
Speaker 2
$5 for a dozen crawlers with the quick. Charging $1000 Can you believe robbery?
Steven
I'm gonna eat every damn one of them. Henry. Greetings from Canada. As things start to cool down up here, I want to ask you guys about your favorite quick strike rigs and why? You prefer them. Also, what size of suckers do you prefer? Is bigger, better, or it's a snack that way to go quick strike rigs?
Jay
There's a bunch of good.
Steven
Ones there's a bunch of good ones. Can you believe they're charging $5 for a dust and crawlers? I'm gonna burn that place down. Then I'm gonna shoot myself in the parking lot because Evelyn left me because I blew gill fish too much. The Smitty's the Smitty's make a pretty Dang good quick strike. Booker makes a good quick strike. What I will say is. This I make my own. And that is is a FW tooth proof makes the multi strand wire that's coated J.
Jay
Sure do. OK, it's called semi colon.
Speaker 2
There you go.
Steven
There you go. So they. But when you say Babylon 5, what? 71 OK anyway, what I like to do because he he asked about sucker size, right? Sure. I I like to tailor my rigs for the fish as closely as possible, so it just takes a couple quick crimps. And I've got a custom made rig for the approximate size of what I'm fishing. Right. Something that I do with my quick strikes. I use two trebles, that is it. 1 is through their Snoop. I apologize, folks. Jay, just can you hear me?
Jay
Check 1-2 yes.
Steven
I my my phone that. You're plugged into. Just fail. I apologize.
Jay
Did it survive?
Steven
But it it's it's in a OtterBox. It's it's actually my phone is actually held and protected by a live Otter nonetheless. So I use a a custom built quick strikes for the size of the suckers I'm fishing. I put one through their snoot and we did a video on this last year. Watch it if you're wanting to learn how sucker Fish it's on the muskie shop. You know, and then I I I put 1 hook through their lip and then I put like a piece of plastic through the smitty's come like a rubber disc. My redneck trick is like cutting a little like a bottle cap down from a water bottle and jamming that over there. That will prevent the sucker from pulling out of his. Lips he make. A little disc or a square it. Matter pop that over the Barb. He ain't coming off there. Scratch off some scales, put on the other side. Whammo bammo. We got him, right. If you're not comfortable with crimping, which is super easy, but everybody's, you know, you got to get comfortable with everything. I like the Smitty rig because they they they have the little disc in there and the Booker rigs not dissimilar. What what's the, what's the other ones, Jay, if not fish, too many other ones.
Jay
Yeah, another one is the clipping goes from Shumway from fuzzy. So that is running. And nose rig Smitty's offer, though, that too. It's a very popular way to go. And there's really two ways to go. You either use hooks to attach to the sucker in the mouth, generally a single hook is used.
Steven
That's a different. That's a different. Yeah. Explain.
Jay
Whether it's Booker or or traditional. Smitty, rig, you know, a light like Aberdeen, Small Hook and it's just the guide that's just holding that thing and and and driving it straight. When when there is. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the nose rigs are providing the same thing. It's a centralized location boom through the nostrils. The guy called the other day. You might know our buddy Jace, you know? And he was looking at quick setting some Pike because he can't get suckers in the Dakotas and using Pike. So he's like, oh, I shouldn't use a nose rig.
Speaker 2
Yeah. He was next to the Herbeck thing.
Jay
Right. And I'm like, yeah, you know what, you probably try using the knows we're gonna play. It'll it'll probably kill it. I don't know. I've never tried that. But. So yeah, just get a traditional Smitty rig for the length of the fish. And that's what you were talking about earlier. You know, it's just like, match the, you know, going with an 18 inch shocker. A lot of people looked for that. They asked for it on the phone.
Steven
Oh yeah.
Jay
Yeah, the eighteens and 20 twos. Ohh, come. That's an extremely large fish. Yeah. And getting coverage on that on any sucker rig is gonna be, you know, I I think you're gonna. You could get you could get a huge fish hitting that and and you know no iron in the mouth so you know.
Steven
Yeah, you better whack.
Jay
Not to mention plenty of big fish, yet smaller suckers, you know, 12 to 15 inch is a great all-purpose size and any of the rigs, you know the medium or large rigs will provide good coverage treble on each side kind of high on the on the back of the sucker and whatever rig you go with, you know you. Get it? Just. Feel what works for you. The nose rings are pretty easy to use. You know it's not. The nose ring. Started with the AK-8 Herbie rig. Remember those and you had to have a baiting needle and use a rubber band and it.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Jay
Was a.
Speaker 2
It was a little bit much, yeah. Work.
Jay
Yeah, but the rubber band would break. You know, that was the nose guiding principle on that one. Yeah. The the nose clips have taken over. And it's a little more simplistic. Same basic principle though, and they work. They work well for a.
Steven
Lot of people. Here's my thing is like most of my. You know. Lures most of my presentations 8 to 12 inch baits.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven
I mean, if you stretch a pounder out, I'm sure it's 22 inches or whatever. You know, I'm saying like it's in motion. Right. Whatever.
Jay
If you stretch the tail.
Steven
11:50 inch suckers are are more than sufficient in my book. More than sufficient. I get the I've got a 22 inch sucker. I'm going. Out here and every time I got to reel him up to reset him, I get to fight him. I mean, that's where you're at, I mean.
Jay
Provides a little excitement.
Steven
I I've had him before, Dave, where you're like, is that a fish? I'll know the suckers just pulling drag.
Speaker 2
Real.
Steven
Right, you know.
Jay
Click, click. Click. Click. Click.
Steven
Click, click, click right, accept my drags on I in the video I talk about how I said the. Drag and stuff but. Ohh shoot, there's one. There's one. No, but it's a sucker. It can be overkill. Right, it can be overkill. I like to be conservative mid range on the sucker size because. Yes, we all want to catch Donkey Kong, but I promise you Donkey Kong will eat a 12 inch or as fast as he'll eat at. 22 If it's.
Jay
Actively feeding well, what do you do? You think of a big muskie? You know, say something. You know 45 inches and above a really, you know, large muskie is going to look at a map.
Steven
Man, let's go bigger. Let's go bigger.
Jay
So if. I'm talking to average. The average person doesn't encounter 50 inch fish, OK?
Steven
I don't think a 45. Well, I don't think a 45 is gonna. I'm sure somebody.
Jay
'S got the point, Steve, not the point.
Steven
E-mail me, OK.
Jay
OK, let's say it's a big fish. Let's say it's over 30. It's. Let's say it's it's illegal. It's 24. I'm not sure. Must do you think they look? They they're intimidated or are turned off by something that's too big. It's just like I'm not going after that. I want a little bit easier wheel.
Speaker 2
See OK. So let let's talk about this.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven
A 30 inch Musk. We'll start. We'll work our way up. Right. OK, 30 inch muskie. I can. I don't even put my hands under their jaw because my hand doesn't fit in their freaking head. Right? Right.
Speaker 2
Right, right.
Steven
I we trout hold them. If somebody has to have. If if somebody's first muskie or whatever, right, we hold it up. Let it go. Move on with it. 40 incher it's a sizeable mouth, right? It's a sizeable mouth, but take a Frick in the mouth of a 40 and put a 22 and sucker in there. You ain't catching 40s. 45 is a nice fish. Right. It's a nice fish and I might diminishing it. It the IT it is all about experience and and the do not judge me on this. A 45 is a really nice fish in my book. It ain't a big. Fish. Right. If I if I know a body of water, I'm fishing like 45 and again, it's all there. There is also a modicum of where are you fishing? Right. So if we're on a Wildcat right in Boulder Junction, you know, that's what I'm saying. If we're fishing Wildcat in Boulder Junction. I I've I think, Smitty said. They got a four footer out there one time which is like huge for that. Like you don't want a 22 inch sucker on bolt freaking Wildcat, right? Because if you look at what that fish is going to hit versus. You know, on any given day, are we going out in like, in, in, in inland Wisconsin waters, throwing 2 pounders?
Speaker
Poop.
Steven
You can get a follow do it proportionally. I mean a 45 is a great fish. It's a heck of a fish. A lot of people would just just kill their grandma to catch 1 and I get it. You don't need a. Sucker bigger than 12 inches for fish of that caliber, and I think I've caught plenty of of upper 40s low, 50 inch muskies on 10 to 12 inch socks. Mm-hmm. I have. Had grabs. I actually had a sucker Jake years back. This thing lasted 3 days and it hadn't been hit twice. It was huge. It was the last one I had. It was like we nicknamed him in the tank cause like, well, I'm. I'm saving him for the bitter end cause I don't feel confident that thing was just like. Or. Bernie, we called him Tennessee Jim, but none. But he was a big he like I had to actually turn turned. It turned him right back from where I got him. I was like you have done your job. You will probably die. You couldn't set the hook on the fish. And I'm assuming it wasn't that big a fish. So little bit of my thought is yes, a big, big, big sucker will attract a big, big, big muskie. Where you're running into the dynamic of. Am I going to get hook penetration where I personally believe A50 to 55 inch Muskie is definitely happy to eat a 12 incher. Right. And if you look. At the size of their mouth. You know the old the old thing of he came up in his mouth was like a 5 gallon bucket. I think I've heard that ******** before. It's not. It was not the size of a 5 gallon bucket. I promise you. Right.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven
His mouth was, you know, the biggest of the big you open their mouth. It's not 22. And if you if you if you can slide a 22 inch sucker down their throat, right, it is no longer a muskie is a dinosaur.
Jay
Right would.
Steven
Could be I'm saying sideways. They don't have 20, so I err on the side of conservatism again, I'm not going to say 45 is not a big fish. It's a hell of a fish anywhere you go. But proportionately I think you're doing yourself a disservice because you really have to consider. How many fish you're eliminating? Do the size of your presentations right? It's like in the Northwoods Wisconsin. How many people do you know that throw double tins all the time?
Speaker 2
Not a lot.
Jay
It's not as common as in. Other areas for sure.
Steven
Right. And it's it's commensurate to size so.
Speaker 2
Hey.
Steven
I am a master. I apologize guys, I'm sneezing and wheezing. Freaking whatever. But you know, you've got you've got your cult to single sevens, which is great. Got plenty of 88 double nines, but we get bigger. Bigger, bigger, bigger. Whatever you see what I'm saying, it makes sense there anyway. Moving on. Frankie Love the podcast Meow Meow, Frankie says. Relax.
Speaker 2
Steven
He's looking for advised on trolling baits. He says the lake got fish doesn't have huge bait. So I'm fishing. I'm looking for downsized throwing options. You know, I have a couple headlocks couple Matt locks. I feel that downsize base with my best advantage for my ski trolling. Downsize.
Jay
I get it.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Well, heck, well, well timed the boss. Yeah, those shut up. Like I said, there's this seven. I'm pulling it back up.
Speaker 2
Dingy.
Steven
7 inch or there?
Jay
Is 4.5 is very popular, very popular little trolling model. There's a joint model.
Steven
You got that?
Jay
Of it too.
Steven
You got that you got?
Jay
You know, another good one would be a deep 6 inch slammer if you want to get down a little bit, it will be on 10 feet. Rolling that good noisy little.
Steven
That. Yeah. Who doesn't? Everybody wants to get down.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Anyway, you got that. Ah, downsize profiles and we mentioned earlier tough shed, great trolling Bay the like you said, the slam are deep. There's your killer little ernies. Rarely talked about, still a killer. Yep, very inexpensive 1599. Caught a billion muskies on little earnings over.
Jay
The other, yeah, friend that loves that big. It's a big guy. It's a big guide platform or presentation form too. Loves it.
Steven
Yeah. Freaking frosty that he's a freaking he's a little earlier. Obviously. You got your luncheon stuff 20 too short. You know that their stuff kind of falls under those parameters. Heck, I'm looking here and if this was trying to.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven
Because Spanky's been doing some of this stuff right with the grandma, all the M9 and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But you have down to a 4.5 grandma.
Jay
Yeah, it's really downsizing. Yeah, it's a little minnow, little shallow.
Steven
But cool stuff. And then the other thing I was going to point out is this killer. If if you want wonder and you want that. Big Waka waka waka, waka waka waka. Action freaking swim with six.
Jay
MHM. 2 weights, 2 depth settings.
Steven
Yeah, versal, that was that was the that was the.
Jay
Cool.
Steven
The trolling bait forever right still has a place muskies don't know the difference. They don't muskies don't follow trends, but that 6 inch swim with is going to be something I would think about. What else? I'm looking here. Digging through digging in the dirt, obviously your depth Raiders all that stuff would be good. But you know, if you're you're you're downsizing. Like I said, swim whizz it up. Man. That would be my. That would be like probably my one like that. That swim Wiz. That would probably be the first one I would grab. Right, because it's such. I mean, it's just a trolling machine. Right. But you got so much, I mean, heck, I'm looking here. What? Even the Adams customs you've done that the Havocs? There's so many downsized cranks. Go with go with you know. Check out the boss shed stuff if you want. Just like. I know it would work anywhere. Swim with us. Anyway.
Jay
Another weird option too would be slim Bates. If you want to go real shallow like the Vipers, right? Livingston, like the Fish Lab stuff, you're ratic side kicking out of thing, you know, real shallow hide in water.
Speaker 2
Ohh yeah well.
Steven
Column. Well, that's The thing is I I've had really good luck throwing the Vipers. You got that shine glide from savage. Good. That's talked about the other day. That's great. Any of that stuff. But you know, as far as a good proper throwing. Grab this and and I'll say this. If you're a trawler and you've not troubled, swim with us. Do it. Like you gotta have that in your belt. You gotta you gotta grease one on a swim whizz at some point in your muskie fishing career to go. I've done it. Been each fall. My Family Guy at my family and I go north to fish to Minnesota, trying to get my wife on her first muskie. What should I do and what should I not do? So we don't end up in a big fight and she falls in love with muskie fishing.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
I've had that fight in the boat, Jay. We fish for something else.
Speaker 2
No, absolutely. I want to catch something.
Steven
I'll truck. I'll drop you off for that. *** ** * *****. This ***** amount $5. Worms so.
Jay
Charlie's worm shack, Bemidji.
Steven
Bemidji, check it out. Charlie's worm. Jack. We got worms, and they squirm.
Speaker 2
Get in the.
Steven
Tuesdays, 50% off flats. We just, we just don't sell them, we breed them. Anyway, sorry guys, I'm we're we're mentoring.
Jay
Yeah, they're overstocked on. Friable worm bedding. You know, you gotta put.
Steven
The you somehow gotta live lives in a pile of it. We're we're idiots. So muskie fishing can suck and it is a grind house, right? We all know that the first time you take someone that is never musky.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven
Finished. They're going to be excited. This is like guide stuff, right? Everybody shows up with vacation energy as I call.
Speaker 2
It right, they're right. We we're gonna.
Steven
Kill them. No, dude, it's not bright sun. Dead flat comp. It hasn't blown it. You know, they don't get that. Do not take people on grindy fishing experiences. Out of the gate, if you can. Avoid it so. What I've always recommended if you're going to break somebody in, especially with female anger, and I don't mean female angler, it's the wife and he's making it out. Whatever. Right, I've got some ****** female clients I've there's some amazing female Muskie angler. So it's not male. Female. It's like new to it. Whatever. Don't freaking do a sun up to sundown. Fricking hell ride right? Right. Focus on the best times of day, you know, maybe you do sunrise, maybe you don't. You definitely do sunset and keep it easy, right? Don't be like babe. They're on freaking 12 inch Livingston lures. Head hunters jerked left to right and pounders. Right. My number one guide bait is the Steves meat grinder. A small monkey could catch a muskie with that back right. Throw it out, turn the handle fish on him. Keep it simple, as easy as a bucktail might seem to you to a new angler, a double weighted bucktail, and I've I'm a guide I deal with it all the time. You might go. There's no way. Yes, there's a way that people can't get them to go or they have problems with them. When you start muskie fishing, the first bait is a spinner. Right. And a top water. Throw it out. Turn the handle fish on it. That's it, right? That's where I would.
Jay
Start. Yeah. Get them out there on peak times. Like you said, you know, majors and minors. Yeah, if that, you know, if a couple hours before dark, you got a moon, period. It's like, OK, plan on.
Steven
Yeah, don't. Don't freaking. Right. That right right, be strategic and have fun the rest of the day. Again, this is coming from a place.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Of experience where I've taken my spouse and beat her into the ground for 12 hours in Canada. Right. The timing of when we met Jay, not you and I, but my wife. Not correlated to Canada, right?
Jay
Jody Michael.
Steven
Oh, let's go do this. Ohh you you like perch cropping basket. You'll love it through musky torture. All right, you stupid. Alright.
Speaker 1
Most.
Speaker 2
Hell. Way to go, boy. That's my boy.
Steven
You know, keep casting Jody. Yeah. I said you ain't moving. I said Twitch, not RIP. You're. Telling me you're here? You know, keep it simple and keep it fun. And you know what? That is transcendent. That's freaking transcendent, whether it be your wife, whether it be your, your, your dumb cousin Eddie, or your boss, or your, you know, your your wife's boyfriend, whoever you're taking. Just make sure make sure that you keep it light and fun. You know they fall in love with it. They fall in love with it, and then then you can start grinding. The quickest way to ruin it for somebody is to take them on that hell ride and just beat them into the ground DF. I love the show. It helps me pass the time before my trips to North America. I fish in Canada for Muskies when I get the opportunity. I live here. Oh ****, I live here in South Africa. Obviously there's no muskies keep up the great work, lads love DF. Whoa, no question. That's cool. Didn't expect that one. I'll take it though.
Speaker
Awesome.
Steven
Jay Jay is. Available to go to South Africa at any moment. You would have fun with that. Jason. What are your favorite muskie glide bats for fall Jay?
Jay
Musky glide baits for fall. Little bit bigger than the small 6 inch stuff. Go with the regular hellhound.
Speaker 2
Can't beat that? Yeah.
Jay
If you had like gates, yeah, it didn't get any easier than that, yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, it's worth talking fall. Yeah.
Steven
Right. Don't come out with your 6 inch. I mean they'll work, but 6 inch phantom, 6 inch tail go with the eighter. Yeah, that's all.
Jay
The bigger profile you thought would go with that 75 phantom. That's a soft tail that's got a same type glide kick the kick. Oh, geez, there's some.
Steven
For me, it's going to be the hot tails.
Jay
Hot tails, big smileys. Those are really good. There's seven or an 8 inch model. Go with those. Got nice little wiggle and and twitch. The side kind of action.
Steven
I I I said well the answer.
Jay
What else, Steve?
Steven
Becomes. This is it, it's. The choice of glide Bates is gonna be based on conditions. Right, so smartly run shallow, but if it it's fall, we're on bigger profile baits in the muscular shallow smelt will be perfect where it's they're holding deeper on a break or deeper on on on a structural cover thing whatever it is you know a heavier glider like the hot tails might be more applicable. So it's not a A1 size fits all scenario right? Because it's a matter of buoyancy rate of fall. More so than just about anything else. Right. We don't want to run a a one of the shallowest glide base I'm aware of is and I'm not knocking to catch tennis official river run man to s s right?
Jay
MHM.
Steven
That is the. Super shell. You do not want to do that when Muskies are staged in a cold front in the fall. On 1015 foot breaks that that makes no sense.
Jay
Right, it does cause you're gonna be, you know, too far or how. Yeah, that. Up in the weeds.
Steven
Like I was about to say, dude, that was said. I'm moving them up in the reeds in Minnesota, which is inches. That that, that dog will hunt son. Right. So that is a applicable guide for fall under that circumstance?
Speaker
Right.
Steven
Right. Which is you can tell I've been writing the next book at this point I'm preaching guys, it's coming anyway, but it's the it's the application. Right. Bait. Yeah. Excuse me. The baits application or it's it's it's value to you is dictated by properly using it when conditions are appropriate.
Speaker 2
All right.
Steven
As simple as that. So a manta super shallow. Glide bait could be the best fall glide bait for four days of your season, followed by the heavier action of like a hot tail's fishtail. Could follow that up if climactic conditions. Point you in that direction. That's true, you know, and I've been thinking about this much. You can. I've just been up by own freaking just over analyzing everything. I was on the phone with Doctor Bob. Yeah. I mean, it's good. Crazy Town where I'm at. And I get asked all the time by the folks on the boat and we're going to this. I'm going to this hungry thing and like. You know, with the weights, what's up with the weight system? Everything with the weights, the. The crack in the because I don't want to freaking have to think about it. If they're on 8 inch tightens, I just want to turn around tomorrow and go. They've been hitting this profile on this action. I want to get it exactly where I I want to get it.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steven
Where it needs to be. Right. And that's my problem with like we talk certain bait classes, right? Where that S. Manta. Is only valuable to me as an angler in very narrow bandwidth, right? That's a very narrow band that that bats value to. Me. Whereas I have some custom made gliders that are heavier than freaking. It's like throwing a bowling ball and they're only valuable to me on that. On that flip side of that coin. If you will. So for me it's about having baits that have as much traction as much value through all conditions. Because I'm telling right now on the best of days Muskies go shout in the fall. And the best of days in the summer, Muskies go shallow. And the worse they go deep, it's it's nothing. 20 feet is nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing with it. That's that. That's one of the hardest things, I think, for people to get through the head. It's like, OK, my boat is 21 ZJ, right? You're you're freaking. You look across your your house, or you look across the room or whatever. Or the car you're sleeping in. Is it 20 feet? So you know, that's not a huge move for a fish, however. It is a huge amount of water that we have to cover when we have such a narrow vibrational profile and visual range. You see what I'm saying?
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven
20 feet away. Whatever. I'll, we'll get there. But you know, whatever. You see what I'm saying, Mandy? Female masking go here. Thanks for all the tips. Wonder if this is this guys. The guy's wife and she's like I hate my. I'm teasing. I don't wanna go fishing with him. Teasing. Mandy, female masking. We're here. Thanks for all the tips. I'm looking for a new reel. It's the one I have. Seems too big for me and it's hurting my wrist. I have a Saint Croix legend. Charming elite. But I'm using a revo beast. Love Steve's book, love all the great songs you guys make me giggle, Jay. You make somebody giggle. Legend, Terminal elite. That's a super light rod. Great rod and the the Revo Toro beach. That's what, 400 size?
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven
Yeah. Well, we get down from every we talk. I tell you right now off the top of my head. Drink 300. Yeah, it'll.
Jay
- 300. Feel a lot.
Speaker 2
But it's still rigged.
Jay
Those bees, they sit, they sit kind of high. I'm not knocking them. They say higher feeling than even the drinks 400, even most of the I've got some fantastic die was like as well.
Speaker 2
Frame.
Jay
You know those TW's? It's a smaller, lighter fueling platform.
Speaker 2
They're great.
Steven
I'll say it's funny because I did. I was been so kind to help out with reals last couple of years and and so all my client reels and all my my guide rails right now are TW's and Pro rexes.
Jay
Think you'll be happy with? Either one of those.
Steven
Right. With the T wing bar and all that's. Wonderful. I picked up. I love the real don't get me wrong, the old white abuse. Right, the the Revo was it Revo solo, yeah. Or at Revo S? That was my real forever. You couldn't pry that on my freaking hands.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Jay
*****. No, I think so.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven
I picked one up for the day and physically in my hand went holy crap, it felt heavy verse. How much weight reductions happened between that and and and and the pro racks. Sure, sure. And I'm not big on like ohh the real way, but I get it. If you're, you know, everybody's physicality is different, right? So there's no like one answer. I mean, if you're 6 foot 15. You know, and it's like, Tim, my buddy from the Netherlands, he could pull him a fricking tranks 500 if he wanted to. He's a giant buddy. Fish is a 400 and it's probably it's. It's not a big deal for him, but. The the the one thing. And we always say this all the time. I don't believe personally. And I'm not talking like Chinese, you know, and stuff like that. That's on the market. I'm talking like Daiwa Shimano, Abu Garcia, akuma. All the different brands right now. I think they all make really good reels. So it it's. Hard for me at a lot of junctures where you know, a couple years back in the podcast, I'd say do this, do that, do that. I feel like all the reels are pretty Dang good right now.
Jay
Well, that's the thing. I mean, I I look at the, the the last four reels that I've bought, I mean, I'm slowly progressing into the you know, the twenty 20s here, Steve. You know, inch by inch. It's just like, you know, in the last five years, the amount of. All the type changes that have occurred and and gone into the engineering of all these reels, but everything you mentioned, they're fantastic.
Steven
Right in the. Whether it be weight reduction, whether it be balanced on the rod.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm. Blah blah, blah blah blah.
Steven
Blah, it's great. I mean, if you do look at, OK, we'll get to your question, man, I swear. But we.
Jay
Yeah, well, size, yeah.
Steven
Always grab a hold here. Remember the first dial, Alexis the blue ones. Versus what we have now? Wait, if you know I'm saying it was a far larger reel. Yeah. So they're getting smaller. They're getting lighter, and and they're as strong, if not stronger. Blah blah blah. So. We always say it and I always kind of lean towards it's about the, the, the comfort level for you. I would say flat out. Probably for most people, the most comfortable reel is the 400 tranks. Like it kind of transcends. I'd say the Pro Rex frame is slightly larger than the the 400. I mean, talking ever since slightly right, whereas like the the the current model, which I I'll tell you what I'm it's interesting. I'll see it in Budapest if they got that what because of booze, got new stuff coming out. So I want to see what they're doing. Right. Hopefully they're there. But. If I'm a, if I and I have these in the boat for female anglers. Uh, my wife has one the the the the trunks 300.
Jay
That's what Jody uses primarily for, since she mostly got it.
Steven
She's actually she well for Muskie and then she has a she's got a freaking 150.
Speaker 2
Which is just.
Jay
Steven
It's awesome. It's like a excuse me. It's like a DX150 from Shimano. It's kind of a. Yeah, it's a. It's like a hyped up bass reel from hell, but. But for Muskie, she's doing the 300 and I have 300 for. For, for for female clients children, things of that nature. Or people just smaller people. Whatever, it doesn't matter. We all come in different shapes and sizes. If you if you hang out the truck stop long enough, you'll you'll you'll realize that.
Jay
Mm-hmm.
Steven
We're all different. But we're all beautiful. But. That would be my go to for a female angler. The same thing. However, I would say what is it is the. Shiite, it's the Kuma. No, it's the pin pin had the.
Jay
The fathoms will.
Steven
Now the other ones, the smaller ones, I can't remember the name. I don't even know if they make them anymore. Doesn't matter. That would be my thing is, is that's going to be the go to go with the. Forget about it. Go with the Shimano 300. It's bulletproof, it's perfect. You know, I that's where I'm at. Personally, I can say this Jays like the I have the dial of 500. I can't remember the TW.
Speaker
Yeah.
Jay
No, no, no. It's like Alexa 500.
Steven
Or whatever. Yeah, huge. It's great real.
Jay
It's huge. Yeah, it's a big platform.
Steven
Real big platform, so you know it's applicable when it's applicable, however.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven
The Iowa are swimming Shimano Tranks 300. That'll get you done. Whatever, Vince. I'm a creeker from West Virginia. Creeker wanted to know when you when, when you guys think the best time to check out? Wisconsin. Mainly central Wisconsin would be looking to plan a trip next year. Thanks in advance. Jay, take it away. When's the best time for central?
Jay
Ch. From Wisconsin, I wonder where he's fishing. Uh.
Speaker 2
Peeping or I don't know.
Jay
Stuff like that, probably the river system. I don't know. There's not quite that. There's not a lot of lakes varieties in there. I mean, there are some, but the best. Depends. You know if you're going for.
Steven
He's talking for an extra generality, though. He's talking for next year.
Jay
Early season, depending on how the weather situates, you know the first couple, everything's a little bit ahead of northern Wisconsin. In central Wisconsin there there is a noticeable difference. I mean it's it's it's closer to the southern Wisconsin range, which really kicks in a good two weeks.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Jay
For us, if not 3. Weeks, judging strictly from ice out and and, you know 6-7 eight 10° warmer every day it makes a big difference in May. So the first week of June could be excellent, especially if you're fishing river systems, getting that quickly warming water.
Speaker 2
Well, if he's.
Steven
A creeper? He could do that, baby.
Jay
Yeah, right there. There's a lot of opportunity there, a lot of river stretches that contain big fish too. So that's a great time of the year, let's say, right, between Memorial Day and say the second week of June to an early season trip and probably right about now say mid-september. And that would be another good option for for a good action.
Speaker 2
So.
Steven
Or early or late. Essentially. Yeah, for that.
Jay
Farming it gets really hot, you know? And if, if, especially if you're fishing river systems, you know, if it's a hot summer, you could run into some slow periods in the middle of summer.
Steven
Well, that's that's anything for sure, but that'd be cool. I mean, you just don't hear a term in saying it out loud. You hear about, you know, Madison Chain, all the stuff in the house South and then you hear anything, you know, freaking Hazelhurst Minocqua Eagle River, all that stuff, North Central. It's maybe it's got.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
Steven
Family there, Jay.
Speaker 2
May help.
Jay
Well. You know. Yeah. I mean, hey, experience flober baby. I mean, look for the famous water well.
Steven
Maybe. What you could go see the Tommy Bartlett magic show. I see I see signs for that every time I'm driving up, so that would be. That's cool. So go early, go late. Here comes Kenneth.
Jay
The Dells is not far away.
Steven
I know this might be dumb, but can you explain what tannic water is? I live in an area where all of our water waters are very clear, and I've never heard the term used outside the podcast and some musky videos. I know I'm an idiot. Don't make fun of me, we would never. Kenneth doesn't know what tannic water is. Me, now, I don't deal with with lunch, tannic water, myself, until I'm up in the north. Tanic water is water that is stained by the tannic acid of pine trees. Intent and it creates this kind of brown look. Jay, why don't you, Mr. Northwoods? Explain.
Jay
Common in flowages, there are some lakes that have bizarre tannic water that one we fished last year last year two years ago, we went out there several times. The one that's very shallow and very dark, almost a blackish water with really low visibility. I'm talking like under a foot. That's kind of uncommon. I mean, generally tanic water around here you're you've got 3-4 feet visibility. Which is no. I consider that moderate visibility. I like that personally, you know. Gin. Clear water can be tougher. Tougher to fish. You know, fish are spookier and and they generally, you know, have it deeper, deeper zones and they're they're harder to target. So when fish are active, tannic water. Could be the trick too. I mean and if it's spring, it warms up faster and absorbs sunlight. Way that you know super heats it quick.
Speaker 2
Right.
Jay
Yeah, there's there's a lot of. There's a lot of options around here that have tannic water. It's not all Gin Clearwater, although we have that too. We have deep, clear lakes that are Canadian, like, you know, with rock, and that they're the whole deal. And in limited vegetation. But tannic water usually has, you know, they're generally good weed lakes. To where the weeds will grow. To 10 feet plus 12 feet. Unlike some of the deep clear lakes around here, they're more I consider more infertile, and that weeds don't grow in abundance. And you know, you don't have that thick, dense weed. Growth, with the exception of a few that have mill foil, we're seeing that on a few lakes like that one we fished out by Eagle River, which got inhabited by milfoil. It's kind of rare around here, but it's starting to happen here on a few lakes, and that stuff is incredible. And you see that in Clearwater, and you have these mats of vegetation. Litter. Really that go from the top to the bottom of the lake, 10 feet, 12 feet down. Right. So they've got. There's vertical, there's. Literally, vertical walls of vegetation, which is not. Not something that that lake normally is going to has ever had historically, so. Imagine it's incorporating some huge changes to the fishery.
Steven
Exactly. So I just looked here just to double check the Google says you will have tannic water in the South too, because of Cypress trees. So it's a vegetation, think tan.
Jay
So effect OK.
Steven
It's. So a little bit of that marshy swampy guy, I think. Yeah, it's just a coloration. You know, it it just changes things. I think in some capacity where, you know, I'm not changing my taxes entirely, but light penetration is different. Things change up quite a bit. Greg, excuse me. I'm dying here, Jay. Uh, that's the last time I eat a French dip before the pog jig, rippers, or the New Saint Croix rod for jigging. Thoughts. Thanks. OK.
Speaker 2
Greg.
Jay
Well, they're both going. To be removable now, so that's a plus.
Steven
Neither. But anyway I I am of the school of neither.
Speaker
MHM.
Steven
Just tell I've said it before.
Speaker
Steven
Rotate your radius in your armor. Right and set the hook. Because Jay, make a hand, right? Like you're holding a big Ripper. Move it up and down. OK, what does that look?
Speaker
Was it?
Speaker 2
Like.
Steven
Awkward, awkward anyway. I prefer to hold the floor grip right so I can really lean into the bicep on the hook set and sit across the body while jigging. Yeah, that's me. I don't know. Big companies are taking the leap, Jay. You said Saint Croix's coming out. They got jig Ripper things. All that's.
Jay
Yeah, Saint Croix's making the move on. Well, they discontinued their musky mojo and they discontinued the the tournament series. Those are done. And there's not many left at the shop. So yeah, they're both going to have. They're both going to come out with a grasp. They call it the grasp handle system. And that's on the way.
Speaker 2
Good news. Get him.
Jay
It's supposed to be. This year. Or we don't know when. So. Yeah, that that's a removable. Handle 2 sizes, little tiny one and about the original size that the tournaments had this last year that were fixed and a decent size handle now.
Steven
Too small, no.
Jay
Not large, still a little bit smaller than.
Speaker 2
Here they are.
Steven
The jig, there's my thing. Yeah, Saint Croix. Ohh, Saint Croix. Saint Croix, Saint Croix, Saint Croix. I've had that size handle in the palm of my hand in the store. It literally Jay. If I grab that like a jig Ripper or pistol grip, it comes to the center of my palm. That's it. Not enough meat there. Not enough is what you're saying, OK? Once again, Jay. Pretend you're holding a jig. Gripper, right? And then thrust at your face. See how you can set the hook.
Speaker
MHM, MHM.
Steven
But I'm just saying I don't feel that that is a substantial enough handle. That's my opinion. Sorry it is what it is.
Speaker 2
Flat out.
Steven
You know, I'm holding. I've held those in my hands and gone. OK. Is that enough for me to transfer power? Across the board, changing my physicality, changing the dynamic. Of a hook set.
Jay
Because what I'm envisioning with this being kind of a smaller handle like you're like you're describing here is that half the power is directed to the handle and the other half is directed to the two fingers that are still on. The foregrip.
Steven
Well, for me it's. Like I said, rotate your hand. Right. You're so you're radius and you're on a turn in your arm and you focus on. You focus on a a different motion, right? So with the jig Ripper style things, right? If you think of setting that up, it's less natural to me to go across my chest than when when I'm. If I'm holding the foregrip of rod. It's a much more bicep movement to me. At least you know I'm. I'm not freaking.
Speaker 2
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Steven
That's where I'm at. Moving on, Dave.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
Steve love, the crack and any plans for a 7 inch model, yes. Take the scissors and cut 3 inches off. That's what I do. That's a little ninja trick, Jay. That's a big trick. Yeah. So, when? When? And. If you look the way this bait was made. The crack and and so the way the the wire, it protrudes out of the back. And the way it sits in the skirt, you can cut 3 inches off the skirt and have a hook set. Flush right there. I think I said it before, but you can do that super easy because you have the same. Diameter on a 7 inch model. Trim it back. Take the split ring off, Shorten Shank, Shorten the Shank on your hook and you're in the game. Robert, I keep getting leaky crank baits. Any tips for fixing them? No matter how many? Of a certain brand. I'll pass on that. I buy. They all seem to leak. I'd buy them from different stores, not just the Muskie shop. I'm not upset. Just don't know how to fix them. How do we fix a leaky crankbait Jay?
Jay
That can be difficult. You got to assess where the leak is. You got to get all the moisture out of there. Two ton epoxy over the crack or the seam would be one way to do it.
Steven
Well, it's tip with. The hook hangers.
Jay
The typically in the hooking area, OK, He's talking about.
Steven
The model, the model he's talking about, right? Yeah. What I do with any like plastic crank bait that is joined together. They're hypersonic sealed. It's not a bad practice to drop a little super glue under the hook hanger. That's where the water is. And then get all the water out by shaking it like a fool. Take the hooks off. Shake it like a fool and get the water out. Let it dry for a couple days and put some. Put some super glue in there. It is not one of my baits, Ryan. I love shallow invaders, but my hooks keep getting caught on each other. Should I do the mod where I see people adding a bar that I've seen in videos? It seems like it adds weight to the bait and is a little complicated. What's your best idea to stop the hooks from hanging, tangling, flat out, love showing better grade back? Take the rear hook and jam it in the tail. Right. But yeah, but do it in the manner.
Speaker 2
The easiest.
Jay
Way to fix.
Steven
That you got a little play in the split ring. You don't. You don't want to. Be real tight, yes. Right. Shove it in the meat of the tail. But the split ring has a smidge of play, so it won't impede the action. You will not hook fell again. You don't need to mod the bait. You don't need to do all this weird stuff. Stick the rear hook in the tail. You're done. The other thing talk about bait. What I like to do. And shell invaders because. I've shell invaders hold up very. I will just take super glue and pull the tail back just to spin and drop the Super glue in there just to really secure that guy up too. So I'm not worried about like the tails pulling out or anything of that nature. 99% they head hunt that bait. Right. So just jam the freaking hook in the back of the tail.
Jay
And be done with it. I'd recommend that because it will work its way out after a while. So yeah, that's all you need to do.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven
It is what it is, Mr. Nelson. Ohh. We got a Mr. on the show, Jay. Hello I enjoy listening to your show as I'm a lifelong muskie angler. I'm about to turn 70 and still like hearing all your zany stories and all the new tactics and baits. Oh, that's cool. I know that he's not the oldest listener, though. Jay, your dad beats him. He's only he's only turning 70. He's rookie. Rookie numbers, they say.
Jay
Which? Numbers. Yeah, right.
Steven
He said. I know there are so many new baits so I wanted to ask you 2 fellas what old bats do you still? Use. I hope my tackle box is not just a collection of antiques that my children will have to throw. Go out. What a cool, quick. Mr. Nelson, thank you for listening. Appreciate that. Very cool old baits that are still gold, Jay. So works Suic absolutely Cisco kids. You know, the Booker staff, obviously. But.
Jay
Yeah, I've got some decorators when they came out and probably when they come out 92 or something like that, I remember.
Steven
Maybe even let's go older than that though.
Jay
That I still use. Giant jackpots.
Steven
Pose giant jackpot, baby.
Jay
Yep, got some super old ones.
Steven
Tom loves bermex.
Jay
Breaking open the.
Steven
All the Lakewood.
Jay
Of Doom, the Lakewood of Doom. Ohh, baby. No, I'm not going to talk. About that one. There's some crazy stuff in.
Steven
Here, Steve's been dead since 74.
Jay
Crazy old reef fogs. Crazy old, you know.
Steven
Reflux, we talk about that.
Jay
Stuff you can't find anymore. Crazy old grammas.
Steven
That's your favorite crazy old grandmas, isn't it?
Jay
Handmade stuff.
Steven
What? What? What's something you still use? He doesn't want to know what you collected.
Speaker 2
Safe.
Steven
Something that is old school as heck that I still use. That has served me with it, always been the freaking and he just passed. What's the gooches freaking tallywhacker baby?
Jay
The number.
Speaker 2
One goal is how.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steven
Gooches tallywhacker. It is a tail prop bait. It sounds different from all the rest that works. The pose giant jackpot that that plays in my game. We've talked about reef hog, that's a different experience, right? There's nothing wrong with it, but like, don't expect left to right, obviously. So it's have been around since the dawn of time. They were invented before Muskies were invented. What else, Jay? What? What's something? That's like kind of 70s. This guy's turning 70. He's muskie fishing in the back of.
Speaker 2
Ohh my gosh.
Jay
That 70s would be probably swim loses.
Speaker 2
There you go.
Steven
We talked about it earlier. That's my call swim with still got him in the.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jay
Boat I'm going 9 inch sewer like it said so that's fine but I still use yeah.
Speaker 2
That would be it. Hey.
Steven
Can't go wrong there. Your tackle box is not all antiques. They still play. Thank you for listening, Mr. Nelson. Much appreciated. Sean. Look at the upgrade. All of my trolling reels. I troll 4 in total. What is the best option? That you feel is. Better than the cuma convectors that I currently have. What do you think, Jay Convectors fine trolling. They're just big.
Jay
Yeah. Good basic real. There are some good Dias. I'm trying to think of what the model is on those and the cool thing about trolling reels is that you don't even have to spend half the price on a good casting drill, you know?
Speaker 2
No.
Jay
That's what's awesome about it is you can get set up for, you know, a fraction of the cost of a brand new trains or something, you know.
Steven
I'm looking at what ways. And and I get it. It's like with the with the convectors. I ran them forever with being a lefty, right? Being a lefty, right? But being a left is an angler, correct? That was the only option I have for a long time. And then I am with Diawara. So I'm running the Diawara line counters. And they're great. But I'll I'll say this. I would the jump. From the convector to the cold water. Is a big jump and as far as quality in in downsizing the entire profile, the Kuma.
Speaker 2
Cold water. Yeah, yeah.
Steven
That I mean the the convectors are 109, the cold water is 13999. The Penn rival line counter is about the same size, slightly smaller, but not like kind of a downsize from the convector. But then Akuma has the convector low profiles. Right. So if you, the kumas have served you well, they make the low profile convectors, which is a smaller platform. So Akumas kind of got the the the the CAP by the proverbial tail right now. Because the next step up from that is you get into like the Shimano takota or the dial Alexa. Right. So for for musky great trolling reels, there's not a ton of options because it it just is what it is. What do you think, Jay? Like if. OK, you're the you're and I get it. Convectors are big. And you you feel like you should be fishing on wicked tuna with that real. It's a huge reel.
Jay
Yeah, I'm not sure why he's done with them, is it? If it's it's, it's the sheer size. Because I mean, you're not casting.
Steven
Well, he's the one that he said he wants to I I'm assuming he said he wants to upgrade. The one thing I'll. Say they're slow. They're like 401 or something. Right. So they're, I I ran them for years. I got my own qualms. They're bigger. And hell, they're hard to store. They hold 7 billion miles of line and reeling in a Jake with 100 feet out takes, I mean, literally you could have a birthday before you get back to the boat.
Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
Steven
So.
Jay
Yeah, that's been my take away on those darn line counters is the one thing is most of them are offered in really low gear ratio. It's like come on, guys 4, two to one. Really, you're cranking your brains out trying to, you know, pick up line when you got a you know when you got.
Speaker 2
Well.
Steven
Some if those are the the two negatives of of what, we'd say that, that that sign. But there's nothing wrong with them. I've caught more. The majority of my trolling fish have all come on a cumin convector of the big ones, right?
Jay
A fish on. It's like, come on.
Steven
Just because I've been with with Dias less, however, they served me well, but it's just slow real. OK, so we're looking at 4, two to one on the cold water Akuma. Right. But it's a smaller profile. The Pro Rex line counter, that's a six one to one. Real. And it's a far smaller profile. So the upgrade you can make from the CONVECTOR would be a smaller profile with a higher line pickup, right? So the cold water.
Speaker 2
MHM.
Steven
Like I said, there's about where you're at as far as real speed. To the convectors you already have. Whereas let me check this one here.
Jay
Well, there is a connector, a high speed conductor that we have out now too, so that's got real high speed back up.
Steven
25 four yeah, so you could go with a low profile. Convector the pro racks or the Dakota and the Dakota is 10 bucks cheaper than the dime where the the Dakota is kind of like. The Cadillac of of trolling reels? Really. In my opinion, it's kind of a ridiculously nice trolling reel. I think that's what the tube screamer runs.
Jay
I think he.
Speaker 2
Does I mean, you know?
Steven
That's what I would run it.
Speaker 2
For in the musky shop, you know?
Steven
It's over real. It's really not that bad. I'm just picking. But so if if you're going for the convector, let's downsize their profile and let's speed up. Our line pickup, so really that's going to be your your options there. You've got the dial with Saltus. What's this? I've not had one of those in. My hands the. Saltus, what's the size of that J cut in your hand?
Jay
Saltus is a. It's a high sitting reel.
Steven
Is that OK?
Speaker 2
So what? Yeah, yeah, that.
Jay
Would be probably if you want to upgrade your you you're talking smaller, lighter, great, great quality and the things got a high speed retrieve. So I think problem. Called with that one right there, which is what? That's one or two.
Steven
Colder. Yeah. Can't go wrong. I mean, it's a wicked. I mean, it's as good as they.
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Get.
Steven
That it's as good as they get.
Speaker 2
Hmm.
Steven
Jay, we have rambled on, ramble on, really endlessly. Well put. However, we appreciate all the questions. I'm sure you guys will have a ton more.
Jay
We do have some guys in the shop Friday. One guy from. Finland and his wife, I didn't even tell you about that. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Neat couple. Yeah. What? He finishes up where? Where you guys went up by Tim. He finishes the summary.
Steven
Yes. Sure, something. Yeah, I'll be the. I'm going to try. I'm going to e-mail the guy. There's a guy in London that it was crazy because look in the other ones, there's a guy that that came over and we hooked, hooked up and had a drink. Well, was in, in, in Amsterdam. That's a podcast guy and we're we're just ************ about stuff and then like. There's a guy in London we got. I'm gonna try to meet up with, cause they have, like, the world's craziest layover. So yeah, it it blows my mind and like the the e-mail from South Africa really like it kidding me. So we we were appreciate it. I appreciate all the support Jay doesn't, which is something we'll talk about.
Jay
Regal.
Steven
Jay Jay's kind of mean, but anyway, Jay, just next week.
Jay
MHM.
Steven
Hopefully we can recap. The comings and the goings of the the biggest fishing show and on the entire continent of Europe, see what's happening there. Maybe, maybe I'll just have some pepsis and jump in the fish tank. What do you think?
Speaker 2
Jay
- Well, we'll be safe, man. It's a long. Trip. Can't wait to hear.
Steven
About it, nothing scares me.
Speaker 2
Baby, say goodnight Jade later.
Jay
Done right guys. Thanks a lot. Bye.
Speaker 1
I can't get to sleep much longer. Expecting it to survive. Boldly, and the major just waiting to arrive. Shopping all my books. Right. My pole position well.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
Stand out and turn them widely on. When time will tell.
Speaker 2
She got.
Speaker 1
It's just a broken top one up.
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 252: New Magnus Swimbait User Q+A
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 251: Is it Fall? Danny and Steven Herbeck and Ramblings
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 249: Fall Transition Muskies
MUSKY 360 PODCAST EPISODE 244: WISCONSIN DEATH TRIP
Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 239: Figure 8 Lure Co. plus User Q+A
Musky 360 PODCAST Episode 238: Old School Musky Gear
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 237: Musky Ninja Tricks | Q+A
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 236: Early Season Musky Magic
Musky 360 Podcast Episode 235: Joe Bucher and More Explore Early Season Muskies
