Musky 360 Podcast Episode 340: Summer Muskies
Podcast Transcript
Steven:
Folks, welcome to the Muskie 360 podcast, Jaybird Jay:
360 in the House, Steve. She's a woman with grubs.
Jay:
She's a woman with grubs.
Steven:
Ohh my goodness.
Jay:
She let the little fish.
Steven:
Go. That's a song about a shoplifter Jay murdered this week. Woman still under. We don't play at the Muskie shop. Folks, you want chef stuff. Your your Shorty shorts full of grubs. Jay will shoot you in the Head.
Jay:
Put them, put them back. Put them down. No need for.
Steven:
That don't do it. Don't do.
Steven:
It baby, don't do it. Don't do it.
Jay:
No.
Steven:
Anyway, goodness gracious, there'll there'll be no violence. But anyway, Jay, you have been out. You have been playing pseudo guide. You got family up there. What are you seeing in the North Woods? What's going on? You're pounding and grinding, grinding and pounding. You're like a mocha hette and guacamole. What's going on with the grind?
Jay:
Seeing a few fish, everything's well. We're fishing early afternoon type thing before dinner and after the rain ends every morning. So kind of like ducking out in between rain storms. We got a lot coming, so it's gonna be some interesting timing involved. Man, I'm telling you what? Get on gun on some different lakes for change right this week. Wow. Weed growth is phenomenal.
Steven:
I mean, Smitty was saying like. It's like a month ago. He's like, yeah, they're six feet of weeds. Yeah.
Steven:
It's, I mean it just never died.
Jay:
No, not dark water, but it's certainly not clear water, and there is incredibly tall weeds growing in 11 feet of water. I couldn't. Believe it. Wow. So yeah, get that going. Hitting some supper clubs, you know, hitting some supper clubs for Father's Day and, yeah, it's all good.
Steven:
How disappointed was your dad? Today. No change or the same level of disappointment.
Jay:
No, he was fine. Yeah, he's fine. I think he went to like Eddie B's Northwoods Pines White Spruce Hilltop Inn or something like that.
Steven:
For the last. 47 plus years, yeah. That is, that name sucks. That's way too long, man.
Jay:
It's a mouthful. Well, it's a Northwoods name, so it's an Eagle River, so of course it was very good. And of course, you know, the whole family's with me. So we're like, well, let's check the entire place for Elmer, you know, because there's a good shot. He's here or has been here. So, but no.
Steven:
Or been drinking there all day
Jay:
No Sign of him.
Steven:
Goodbye.
Jay:
Well, the the dinner rolls, there are just absolutely phenomenal. So you know there.
Steven:
You have it we if you live up north, you got to check your dumpster for Elmer at night. If you throw out dinner rolls, he's like a raccoon. Like he's like a little little raccoon band at that. It's ridiculous. I mean, he's banned for most supper clubs. In the North woods for obvious reasons. Right.
Jay:
Elmer knows everything about every supper club in the tri-county region and I am not exaggerating, it's.
Steven:
Literally jokingly, if I need to find somewhere to eat after we get off the water, just call Elmer. Hey, I'm on this lake. What's the closest thing turn left on my right?
Jay:
Yeah. What are their hours? I mean, he'll like every little detail we.
Steven:
Were in Eagle River that one night we went to the kind of swanky place and Elmer was like over there. We went over there. There you have it here. Very shortly we will be swanking it up together, Jay.
Jay:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Steven:
It it's.
Jay:
Yeah. You mean you're coming to the? Northwoods absolutely.
Steven:
Yeah, just a matter of days. It's scary. I looked on my counter. It's like, holy crap, it feels like I just left. The suffering never ends. Get to hang out with you, neighbor SteveThe hog, the hog. Neighbor Steve Hogg, Blaster himself neighbor Steve, just popped a big PB this. Week. Yep, Yep, Yep.
Steven:
And on a safety pin, spinner bait and get gonna go out there and we'll have some reports here shortly on what's going on there. Obviously you got the the reports from Krieger. If you're doing that, Jay, something that's coming up here very shortly. I mentioned it before. We kind of tease. Danny herbeck. Jamie Pistilli here. Very shortly. They're going to be doing a Canada Muskie fishing report for us on that. Right. So little podcast thing 20, maybe 30 minutes Max of what they're seeing. Both of them are guides, so one of them, Danny, is on Eagle, right? Jamie Pistilli is all the way over on the French river system. That neck of the woods, they're covering the whole range of where you need to see what you need to see more. Most.
Jay:
Well, that's really cool. I didn't Know that
Steven:
I I thought I told you that, but I, you know, sometimes I have a. Pepsi or 40.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
So we're gonna have a little blip from them every week, basically through the major part of Muskie season. So Danny herbeck. That's Steve Herbeck's son. Can't get much better than that. You know, he probably herbeck probably knowing her back. Her back, still hiding stuff from him.
Jay:
He came in a few days ago earlier this week and he was buying more, yeah.
Steven:
Yeah, what he bought? He bought what he bought. What? Krakens. Yeah, that's what's up, baby.
Jay:
Tracking. Bet he did, and the placement tails and.
Steven:
That's what's up anyway. I'm. But you know her, Bex told me. Danny has passed him years back. I mean, and and me and Steve are friends. It's like that weird father son dichotomy and it's Father's Day. It is great day to mention it. But you know Steve Herbeck told me, he said. Danny passed me a few years back and he's teaching me things and he understands Muskie fishing on the Canadian shield like no other. Add that in with Jamie Pistilli from rising Sun charters who's over on the eastern part of the muskie habitat range. So we're covering all points in between for the. To the little Muskie report for Canada. If you're heading up to Canada, it's going to be great, right? I'll be up there this summer a little bit up there. Fishing and filming. I'll definitely get with these guys, so we'll be able to give you guys a little bit of a heads up before you head to Canada, whether it be Lake of the woods or French river or wherever you're going to have a. Clue of what's popping? Jay, what's poppin?
Jay:
MHM, MHM.
Steven:
Just keep going. Take him with the word yes.
Jay:
Yep. Yep. That's it. Yep, Yep. Yep. Well, tell me, what's your report, Steve? How how's the fishing been? This week for you.
Steven:
I killed the Ewok
Jay:
What?
Steven:
Shot him right out of the. Tree Jay. Ohh OK.
Steven:
I thought it was I was high on PCP, I thought. It was the walk is.
Jay:
Actually, a homeless guy. It's legal down there, right?
Steven:
It's legal. Yeah, we're during. We're in homeless person season. So he was wearing a headscarf. He looked like that. He walked from returning. The Jedi shot him right between us. Anyway, we are. We are encroaching upon the end of the Muskie southern kind of thing. If you got some moving water, it's still kind of cold. You know, Krakens are smacking some double bladed stuff. It's good. Definitely some open water trolling our cool text from a a good buddy of mine today. Little bit South of me and he smacked a really good with his son today. So congrats to you, Sean. There's some options, but we're we're kind of we're kind of gusting up by the time it fires up up there. We're done. Down here, so headed your way for for the continuation of Ewok season, Jay. So.
Jay:
OK, nice recap, interesting recap, but it was nice list.
Steven:
One this this ain't my first rodeo here. This ain't my first can crack, baby. Hold on. I've been behaved for too many weeks, Jay.
Steven:
But I'm best behavior. No more folks, no more. It's time to unleash the beast and let's unleash what's new at the shop this week. Anything interesting new? Are we? Do we have everything is like the end of new stuff showing up done or what's going on with with baits right now at the shop.
Jay:
Yeah. I mean, it's never really done because we get surprised all the time with stuff or, you know, inquiries we've made, you know, take sometimes take a year to. Yeah, yeah, it's weird, but yeah.
Steven:
Like four years later, it's like.
Jay:
Yeah. For the most part, I don't. I don't see any true surprises coming in in the next week or two, but yeah, well, we got a ton of stuff in this week. You know, it's. All restocks like. You know, you know your weekly Mepps and Bucher and Suick and. All that stuff, you know, so busy time of the year.
Steven:
I I I talked to Don at figure. 8 Oh my goodness. I'm looking, I said tailgaters sold out of the Goblin King sold out of Daisy Duke. Sold out of.
Jay:
They said he'd haven't done. I think by Tuesday or something like that, so. Them by Wednesday, so the.
Steven:
The the. The Primo colors I'm telling you, freaking, goodness gracious. They're just they're they're gone, boys. Just to hand, while I'm looking right now at the inventory. Don will be back in stock with those very shortly. He is diligently making the tailgaters. Those are coming back in stock. What do we got? Meat grinder to have we got Goblin King? We. I think we got all the meat grinders. Dudes, I'm telling you, it is just about meat, especially with all the weeds up there, super meat grinder season, it's going to be. Good. What else do we have here? Something that's coming into season, Jay? It's the time of the season for top water shortly.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
What's your name? Who's your daddy?
Steven:
It's Father's Day.
Steven:
Is he a ***** like me?
Steven:
Anyway, we're getting there very shortly. It's the time of the season for top water. Water become super relevant. We got the cannonballs, the, the little b’s What's the inventory looking like on fat bee?
Jay:
Decent, we have. We have a bunch.
Steven:
Reason. Doctor evil. I'm. I'm trying to think of things that are relevant. Guys. Everything about Bates stock up. Load up all black. Doctor evil. That doesn't suck black and orange. My favorite. It's gone, baby duck. Yeah, black on black. Just move on.
Jay:
Just do a bunch more top operators into the, get all colors and this is been Amos.
Steven:
Doctor evil so. I just read a thing on the APJ this week. Actually, today when I got off the water about like beginner baits absolutely. You have no clue. You don't even know what a muskie looks like up close of just the simplest of simple baits, right? Kind of like just to people have asked. We get so many emails of app and it's like, OK, this is this is. Yeah.
Steven:
Your your cousin Lloyd, that eats potatoes raw for breakfast, right? He could catch a muskie doing this Top Raiders on there. That bait just. It just works. You know, you have so many options of straight retrieve baits and and that's one of them. I mean, it's kind of a classic that I think gets taken. For granted. Now with like with the top. Greater. I mean you go. It's worked. It always worked. It will continue to work you know.
Jay:
And you don't have to worry about tuning it.
Steven:
No, that's the thing. I mean something I'll say about and I'm pulling out right now here on the. I mean, if you're, if you're listening to muskie Podcasts. This is probably beneath you, and in writing it I I kept it kind of like super simple way me, Steven's Meat Grinder, Titan and like the whole thing I'm doing as a guide. We're good. OK. I got a dude that can barely stand up and I've got a chimpanzee wearing a muskie shot hoodie. We have to catch one, right? What can we do? And so this is like kind of my guide list of things that no matter what you do. Right, you could. You could catch a fish and top raiders on there. It's kind of just a concept, Jay, where it's like, OK. Let's take it down to just bare bones. Musky stupidity. What can we do and top raider throw it out? And like you said that too I I was looking at. I was going, OK. We're kind of in the. We're encroaching on the core of top water season because water temps right now are excuse me going up for me. What are you seeing on the on the lakes right now when you're fishing. Suck a Tobin or or or turtle bogan.
Jay:
Mid mid 60s generally wow, we've never warmed up a lot we've had. We've had a lot more cold weather. It rained all morning. Soren and I got on the lake by 11:00, only had a few hours before hitting the supper club and and it was 65.
Steven:
For a while. Degrees out. Did you? Cloudy. Did you feel?
Steven:
Yeah, yeah, you should anyway. Your uncle sucks. Sorry.
Jay:
So I was you were talking about the beginners thing there and I was thinking, you know, I haven't read your article. I saw it just before we went. You know, we.
Jay:
Shameful.
Jay:
Went. On the air here, Steve and the thumbnail looks beautiful.
Jay:
By the way.
Steven:
It's not like I said, I'm not propping the article, but like if it this is the time. Where a lot of people. This is the time where a lot of people are like, OK, we're going muskie fishing. And these are just my top ten baits of a monkey could work them, right? Sure. Eat peep. Who's got the keys to the Jeep?
Jay:
What I what I was thinking of was that you being a guide and you know the the best guides out there are going to realize someones capabilities and kind of make a assumption that certain baits are going to work no matter what. You know obviously you get on the water you're like you know you're doing all your readings, you know you're checking the water, you're trying to read the water.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
Because every day is different and it's like, OK, yeah, you know what? Today might be a shallow thing. And let's start with some blades, you know, or whatever it is. So you're like, you got to get the right bats for these people. And that's probably not easy.
Steven:
Nope. You get on my. The thing though. My boat double Pounder every day.
Jay:
So you threw all the tortures, what you're doing?
Steven:
I I listen if you get them to tap out in the first 30 minutes, you're you're home free.
Jay:
No matter what. Oh, I see. OK.
Steven:
You know, double tail pounders. Ohh, it's we better downsize. Put on the pounder.
Jay:
And you're up there going down, working faster.
Steven:
Right. You know, right, we're faster. Fade that thing. Better be bulging boys. You just watch somebody's grandpa boys. They're life. Flighting them off my boat once a week. No, that, that, that. I bring this up and I kind, I kind of pointed to that little fluff thing I wrote. Because a lot of us are about to run into the time where we're all pseudo guides, and that's what Jay's doing right now. You know, you got your family trip on, you know, suck a Tobin or, you know, you're ever on Munchy Tobin. I'm just making up names. Jay.
Jay:
Clearly.
Steven:
You know. But. We run into these things where the where the guy riding, driving the boat, right. You're running the family trip. That's July or August. It's coming up here shortly. Grandpa Jones wants to catch a muskie. What do we do? That's kind of a refocused kind of article for the dumbest of the dumb kind of baits, but also to everybody on that is freaking awesome. And you said top raider is the only reason I bring it up because top raider, I mean a a fat *******. You can get the tail out of tune. You. 10.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
Tell fish. Tell the team it's not tempered. You get a great sound of freaking top Raider. It's not coming out of tune. I like them both different animals. I'm going to put my girlfriend's uncles, brothers, lover on the top rider, right? Throw it out. Turn the tail right, reel it in. Same thing I talked about Steve's meat grinder in that. The where that bait came from. Do you know, like you and I have talked about guiding is a a hellscape and of itself sometimes right.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
People have very high expectations, but they have very low skill. That is fine. That is not a judgment. I'm being as honest as I can on the podcast we're we have people with 50 inch aspirations with Blue Gill skill. What do I got to do? What do? How do I make their their their their target, meet their skill level? The freaking meat grinders like. OK, well, I've taken away most of the weed fowling I've taken away the big thump verse double blades. I mean, that's that short list on that freaking thing is not not a double blade thing where you'd be shocked. You take your, you know, like I said, your cousin Eddie's boyfriend's girlfriend's. Mother-in-law. Out and stick her on double 10s and she'll screw it up. So if you're playing guide and a lot of us are going to be doing this this summer, you're your pseudo guiding. You're the best muskie guide of the family. Think about some of these baits to help dial in the people that you're pseudo guiding on that let that little family junket. For the weekend or like Jay's doing, you're going listen, you can't put Jays nephew, and he's a great kid, but you can't put him on a. Thinking you know a weagle on the 1st cast or put him on, you know. Red October. You know what I'm saying, Jay? Where it's like, OK, we need something that's gonna trigger fish in the easiest methodology we can get. So that's something to look at. Whatever I just like coming up with, like the family corollaries like uncles, brothers, boyfriends, lover. What do you?
Jay:
Yes, you did a good job. Well, I was wondering what is the one phrase you always say after you give that top water, whether it's a top raider or if that bee to your client and they start reeling it, what is the one first phrase that always comes to mind as a suggestion that you that you put? Their way.
Steven:
Leave me alone. I'm. I'm gonna pass.
Jay:
Well, no house, no down a little, right? Am I right? Because everyone tends to over crank those and the whole body is turning, you know.
Steven:
Usually I go hey, can you drive? The boat back. I'm teasing. But by the time I've given up to toppler, hey, you ever trailer to 22 footer? Think about cringy things I did in my teenage years.
Jay:
Just get it kind of straight on there, don't worry.
Steven:
About it, just whatever, man. I sleep here. Don't worry about me. Be it. Buddy, I'm having a good day. It's it's Father's Day. Thinking about the dad. How? How was your dad, Jay? It's awesome. Your dad is. How old now? He's 88, goodness gracious. He fled Germany and went to Argentina. And what, 45 no.
Jay:
Yep, yeah. No, he was. No, he missed World War 2. He was born in the late 30s. So. Yeah. No, he he's technically a Korean War veteran, though, so he did the badger on our flight. He was wearing his little badger on her flight to get up tonight, so. That was a really cool thing that he did. I think about two years ago, it's just he was blown away at the entire experience. I mean, yeah, the standing ovation that he got at the airport when he landed at 10:30 at night or something, there's hundreds of people there just lying down and they're all cheering. And it's just like. You know, pretty emotional.
Steven:
Here I know it's a. It's awesome. So what a what? A different time, you know? So you're you're a lucky man to have your dad around Father's Day. I'm not gonna get. Yeah, I think of muskie fishing. I think of fathers. It's it's kind of a day for me, you know. He just got what he would do. Drink more. That's what he would have done. Jay. Anyway, I don't know what we're saying, but I'll get there, which is the skill level I think we're going there, which is like skill level verse bait application. How do we get the most out of a low skill angler? Right. And get them connected.
Jay:
Or or low experience angler. And saying and it's that that that's the thing. It's just like someone's pretty darn good. You, the 16 year old, you know. You know, athletic dude, you know baseball star I mean, you know, no slouch and but then you know he's got the energy to go as long as you as long as you want to be out there.
Steven:
It's not, I mean. Right, right, right.
Jay:
You'll fish, you know. Which is great, you know, to see drive out of kid, you know, like that. You know, but you know, like you said, he's never thrown a 10 inch Weagle. I. Imagine, right? So that would.
Steven:
You know, and you're gone. Chick sucks.
Jay:
Be a little bit of but he could get it. You could.
Steven:
Do it. You could do it right? You could do it, but we've got to get people on par and I think that's where I'm going. Like the jokester was out with me this.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Week, right. Yeah, yeah. Jodie's got her own boat. Oh, we're out there smacking. We're throwing all these different bats. Where? Where can we get someone on the same page as the Muskies? I was just talking about the meat grinder for us. Kind of changed course there, which was like, OK, it's not going to found the weeds. It's gonna sump pretty much 98% of the time. That's a score, right? The top Raider, you know? Here. Here's. Here's your brothers. Uncles girlfriend's possum trainer, right. And he plays with the tail. That's not going to come out of tune. That's why I go with top rider. Keep it basic. Keep it straight.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
Tree and then then it's your quote UN quote, suedo guide. Right. You got the family weekend trip. You got the 4th of July coming up. You got whatever.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Uncle Larry's carpet layer lover. As a you gotta put him on a. Fish keep it. Basic but sort of stick. That list would be pretty pretty smart there for for things that don't work.
Jay:
When you the guide, you're putting them on proximity. That's that's nothing to. Worry about that's.
Steven:
Yeah, I mean it.
Jay:
When they get a little nervous, like they can't see weeds anymore, you know, you can kind of sense that a little.
Steven:
Bit, but you know that's when you look them in on and say we're structure fish.
Jay:
The Boat Patrol is changing it.
Steven:
And just lie to him. That's a guides number. No, we're we're fishing structure. No, you just drifted off 20 feet. OK. No, no. You know, I I don't even know it. It's a family holiday, right? Which means I ordered a 24 pack and two large pizzas. What you're saying is so on brand where where everyone's coming up the Northwoods, you're from Canada and it's family, family, family, family, family and somebody's the boat driver, right? Whoever's driving the boat and whoever's kind of leading the charge with the game plan, your job as a pseudo guy. And I like this. We just ended up there organically, organically. But if you're like the chief on the boat, right? You're the God. Proximity to the edges. We're fishing. Our proximity to the cover slash structure we're fishing becomes paramount. Right. Good boat control catches Muskies. It simply does. Right. How much space do we have to close the deal? How much space are we moving a muskie off, say a weed edge before we're in the Figure 8? Determining that is kind of like the ninja move outside of putting, you know, your boyfriend's Barbara's Taylor's girlfriend's uncle pet trainer. On a straight retrieve bag.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
So. We need to have good boat control if we're playing pseudo guide during that peak season, right? So. Say, you know we're on a bucktail bike, just straight retreat whatever, or a spinner bait bike. If you're too far off the edge because you don't have faith in your boat control your your your family members, your buddies, your friends, whatever. They're not hitting where they need to be to engage a fish. If you're too tight, it's too it it. It's like they might move one and they've got 20 feet before it's going to figure right. And guess what they're going to do. They're going to screw the Figure 8 up every time.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
Asking your spouse or your uncle, or your girlfriend's mother's cousins, you know hairdresser to do a good figure A is diminishing returns. Right. So if you're playing that game, split the difference and think about it that way. I don't know. We got down the rabbit hole, but that that's so relevant, I guess is what you're doing right now. And I see so many people are like groups that are, you know, they're headed to Canada or the head of the North Woods where it's like. Their muskie. Trip of the year, you know, and they're going to whatever they're going to the Manny. Chain or they're going three legs. It's it's one dude is kind of like the boat driver boat launcher.
Jay:
He's the guide.
Steven:
You just, you're the guide on that tip. Something to think about is. The the the dichotomy of of. Presentations in a boat at the same time, right? So. If you're looking for a pattern, you're playing pseudo guide in the next couple weeks or your your trip with your buddy and that's so normal, right, Jay? I mean, there's a little bit of pressure like you call up, you know, what's your buddy down there, Madison?
Jay:
No. Yeah, I mean absolutely think about that. I think most people that that fish every once in a while try to fish once a month or more and then in that situation that's a good thing to talk about, yeah.
Steven:
Right, you've got you've got a, you've got a lifelong friend down there in Madison. Yeah. I can't remember. His name will stop my head, you know. Props him but. Yeah, Brandon. Yeah.
Jay:
Right.
Jay:
I'm. I'm guiding him and there's pressure there. It's just like I want him to have good time to catch fish. Yeah, absolutely.
Steven:
Put me on fish, *******. And or or you know. It's back in the day. I mean, I was going through the the photo albums last year. It's like, you know, here's a bunch of pictures of you and your your YouTube buddy. You know, come up here and we'll do this. We'll just get down there. I'll freaking. Whatever.
Jay:
Oh yeah.
Steven:
He's a tool, but. You you would look at that relationship where if you call your buddy and we're going out and you're going on your boat and your water, your guide. Right. He might just bring bring in a six pack, but what do we do to make that fundamentally happen? I really don't have a direction for this, but when we started, but I think it's Meredith. What can we do to make this happen as quickly as possible for a musky anger that has a lower skill level than ourselves?
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
That's the question. Let's start there. First and foremost, good boat control. Understand the season out of Muskie. So what's your first job in the beginning of the day, Jay, what have you been doing? Mark? Forage. Is it shallow mid or? Deep first. And foremost, secondly, make a bait selection. That takes exceptionally low skill, but has the appropriate running depth.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
Right. So if they're on top? I mean, if I got a. If you're on my boat, we might throw fat bees. If I got, like I said, your your cousins, hairdressers, you know, dog groomer on my boat. Let's let's put her on a a top rider so she won't play. With the tag.
Jay:
God, you know a lot.
Steven:
Of people I know them all, so the top critter cause the tail won't come out of tune. His monkey proof, right? So we need to make the determination first rule of the game, shall we matter deep what presentations are are are directly. Hitting the zone we we muskies to be in running above them but not below them. Right. So is it blades? Spinner baits top or top water? You know, mid level crank bait a shallow jerk baits? Or is it like deep probative baits Bulldogs cracklins medusas? Right. You gotta make that determination. Make it quickly, you. Look like an idiot. Now you're a guide, right? Because the second you got cousin Eddie's freaking bookie on.
Jay:
Your right you.
Steven:
You want to make sure you show him a fish. So make that determination based on bait fish as quickly as possible, and then make your bait selection based upon something that someone can turn the handle and muskie on in right. Real stop. Real stop or straight retrieve. That becomes the question. So that's kind of that seudo guiding thing. If you're leading the charge on a Husky trip or a family.
Jay:
You have bleeding.
Jay:
Weight of the bait to ease of casting, casting distance without backlash issues. That's another thing. Like really light Bucktails that flare up a lot. You know, you got any kind of wind which we do every day. You know, bad choice, something that casts like a bullet.
Steven:
I'll tell. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yes. The two that is interesting and again self-serving when I I don't even think we talked about that piece. It's kind of like clickbaity or dumb but it's it's self-serving but.
Jay:
Yeah, you know.
Steven:
The reason I went with instead of like a 500 Bucher tail or a 700 or or like a a a single blade. Was it's kind of hard to goober up a spinner bite, right? And they got the white to cast. If you're guiding, you know your your, your boyfriend's girlfriend's lovers, ex cop. You want to make sure that you don't have the tiniest giant killer or aglia or or something that's super light because. Now it's birdsnest. City.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Also too, you know, I had a group. Jody was out with me this. Week. Where we went two full days. Right. Two boats, no birds nests.
Jay:
Nice.
Steven:
Set the tensioner knob on the side of the reel appropriate for your guests first and foremost. If you switch baits you should be able to freeze spool and that bait slowly falls from the rod tip right? So put a new bait on click it and freespool if it falls really fast, guess what's going to happen with the low skill angler bird's nest. If it falls slowly.
Jay:
Yes.
Steven:
Or at a moderate pace, you're in the. Right. You can't go. I think a lot of guys will be like, oh, I'm taking, you know, my girlfriend Jesse's, you know, Buffalo trainer. And I'm going to put it on the smallest bed of half. Well, that's going to end up into a burden of situation. You want a little half? Do you want a little weight to a bank all. Spinner bait or top rate or something with some some? Chunk to it. But nothing like egregious as, say, a pound or a magog.
Jay:
Yeah, exactly the opposite end of the spectrum. If it's too heavy, if it's 5-6 oz or more, that has just a just, it's just completely negative for the for the average we can kind of fishermen, it's just too much. It's too.
Steven:
Well, I mean they they won't. Yeah. Yeah. Stay away from glad Bates. You know, I mean, this is just me. A fight. But we're we're kind of down the rabbit awful lot of dudes are about to have to do this 4th of July. We're going out. Well, I mean, think about it, dude. How many guys have their boat and you're geared up for 4th of July and you you're sucked into, like taking somebody you don't want in the boat.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, you put them on. How many times have you put someone on a suit? You know, you know, AKA like a Titan. You know, just a simple diver. Eyes like easiest, wrong base. They don't look like they're doing much. I've had literally had people go. This is that's the dumbest looking. Or, you know, they'll say something like that.
Steven:
Know. Well, and I just talked about that with the Titan. Yeah.
Jay:
It's like. It just kind of trust me on this one. They really catch fish.
Steven:
And. Get cranked on. That talked about the Titan in that little right up where it's like real stop. Real stop real. Yeah. Stop it does something. You know, but spinner baits top waters that's going to help you out a lot in the in the grand scheme of things. But make that determination as bait. Mid shell and deep and and pick some very simple presentation so you look like a superstar so they go, you know Uncle, Uncle Jay put me in a hoga sour. There you go. Whatever. I never.
Speaker
Hmm.
Steven:
You know, it's pseudo guide conversation, but it is what it is. Never thought about it. Anyway, Jay, we've got some Q&A. Let's hit this. Let's get into it. Let's get dialed in.
Jay:
Hey.
Jay:
Steven:
Here comes the real trap ****, Jay Holler at you, boy. Sorry, that was ridiculous. Josh. I'm relatively near the muskie fishing shenanigans. I'm going to get a bucktail bite on the shelling side of the first break. The water temp is 65 to 67. And what water temp would you start throwing top water and if you rise a fish and get a falling, will you hunker down on it or come? Back to it. If you come back later in the day, how long will you personally give it? Jay? What's your? What's your vibe on that dude?
Jay:
And water temps to start throwing surface spades.
Steven:
I mean, creeker, you know, Wisconsin is kind of like if it bounces.
Jay:
Yeah, I mean.
Steven:
You know that means there's ice on the water. Don't throw surface baits. I mean, I don't get really excited about surface baits until the 70s, but you can in a slow methodology catch them below.
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
Yes, I agree. You know, there's times you know the water might be in the 50s, they could be pre spawn. I mean, if they're shallow, they can work and they have worked in the past. So. But yeah, generally once you start hitting a consistent 70°, you know that Midsummer thing which usually you know by let's say 4th of July roughly you know.
Steven:
All right, very soon.
Jay:
Then. Yeah, very soon. You know, the true summer pattern sets in. It's just, like, go nuts. Yeah, give them a. Shot.
Steven:
I mean anything below that will work. I mean some of your slower working top waters can can be effective. You know if you're moving them on blades. And I getting to eat in the 60s. I mean, I'm 67, you could throw say. A fat ******* or pacement. Whatever. Throw something back on. I'm going to probably air for a downsized bucktail if I'm getting the look, but I'm not getting to eat during those temps. Something of the of the ilk of a wiggle or a jackpot or a walk that dog, I think is way more applicable than a tail prop in the 60s.
Jay:
Yeah. OK. OK.
Steven:
You know, whack, whack, whack pause, whack whack whack. Paul's kind of deal. But you you can do some damage there, Jay. Typically, I'll let you handle this one as well.
Jay:
MHM, MHM. You move.
Steven:
We've got to follow. How long do we give them?
Jay:
We'll cast back, right? Right. I'm.
Steven:
The median 1 right?
Jay:
And then both. Yeah, after the immediate and the and then the change up, you know you you give them, you give them the 2nd dose of something different.
Steven:
Right.
Jay:
We're talking size and action difference. You know, if the thing came up on the top water number one choice, would you go back to some kind of blade option, something that's still close to that? Name. You know, range in the water column so but no, you know, don't just keep burning it over and over. Because if yeah, I mean, after a couple, after a couple shots with the with going to the second paid option and no, no. Come back to it.
Steven:
Later, well meaning it could be the major. It could be the minor. It could be sunset. You could come with dynamite. Your choice. There's a lot of options there on. When we follow up. Change. I think it's the number one thing we're. Looking. For Jay, you know, for a follow up, we move a nice fish. Did something, did the wind direction change right? Something happened in the environment, not in your brain. Well, now's the time. You lick your finger and stick it there. I've dialed in. No ********. That something happened. We have a shift that cloud up a bunch. You know, did we go from a A, say a a E wind to a West wind? Do we go from a north-south? Or whatever it might be. You know, or is there a major cell lung cell? I can't even talk. It's Father's Day.
Jay:
No, I've seen that a lot from when you get to kind of some dark clouds that all of a sudden roll in just for a few minutes. You know what I mean? And it's just like you notice how much darker the whole, you know environment is and that's that has clay.
Steven:
Jack yeah. That's what that's like I call. That's why, like when you call me, I call it dark clouds. Just the environment gets grim. To say it, say it.
Jay:
When I call. You just sad. Thanks, Steve.
Steven:
Josh likes the podcast. We appreciate you. You've read her a lot more. But anyway, thanks. Matt from Chicago. You guys are like my gay uncle. Sorry. Thanks, man. You guys are like my. Course I never wanted. What is your best life advice for a muskie net and these 20s? Looking for life advice, not a Titan collar recommendation. Just your best advice on life. Tell tell Jay to lay off the hog sauce before the bash. We don't need him getting a fight over Fat Freddy's wieners. Am best is wow, that is awesome. Best, best life advice.
Jay:
Wow, that's a true super fan right there. Yeah, that's Matt, man. OK, #1 and I'm going out on a limb here. Leave Chicago. #1. Sorry.
Steven:
Uh-huh.
Jay:
Move to the Northwoods at some point in your life. Aspire to.
Steven:
Do not do that. No, there's there's nothing up there for you than alcoholism and sad. What else you got? Best life.
Jay:
What? Best life advice for Matt's 22 I don't know what kind of.
Steven:
No, she's 20, and that doesn't matter. You're in the 20s. You don't know you're.
Jay:
Work he does? Yeah. Doing yet? No, you don't. You got. You got a lot of time ahead of you to make a lot of a lot of. Well, there's a lot of trips coming. I can tell man. It's going to be taking a lot of trips, probably outside of Chicago land too, probably headed north.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, I don't know. I don't know, maybe style.
Jay:
What do you think, Steve?
Steven:
'S best life advice, I mean, it's Muskie podcast, but I'll give you my druthers. No one invites you to the party. You gotta kick the door in. That would be my advice. No matter what you do, whether it be muskie, guide or or or your shoe salesman, no one is going to say here it is. Here's life. I'm going to give you. Like if somebody offers you an opportunity, it's better for them than it is for you most of the time. Right. So you've got to make your own way. Nobody's going to invite you to the dance. You just got to find your thing and you gotta **** ***. And you gotta be. Just diligent about it. You know, I as much as goodness gracious, it's not a life advice podcast, but it's funny. There are weekends. There are Sundays at me and you're like.
Jay:
Oh my God, we gotta do the podcast.
Steven:
Right. We sit here and *****, but we do it and we ****-*** as much as we can doing it, consistency, not giving up and just giving it hell. And nobody's going to. Nobody's going to hand it to you, man. You got to want it. You got to do it yourself, Sean. Having watched Joe's tutorial on the slot master Spinner Bait, which is awesome, would it be OK to fishers lure with no leader for European Pike? I just love Muskie. 360 can't get enough of it. Keep up the hard work guys. European Pike slot master? No, I mean Jay. That's a Jay question really. Because and they're always these new fish, the like crap out of spinner baits with no leader. Talked to me about that. Have you lost any fish or Pike or what's going on? There with spinner blades.
Jay:
Well, yeah, he's talking about Slob Masters, which are over an ounce. I mean, I'm talking about, you know, bass spinner Bates. They kind of. Yeah, I mean something and a half out. Right. Half Oz Range is a little bit more finesse with the vibration and everything and.
Speaker
Uh.
Jay:
A lot of terminal tackle on the on the front of that thing. Kind of monkeys with it a little bit. I don't enjoy that. So quite often I go no leader. I have a youth leader, but yeah, quite no. The slot master, I would, you know, fine. Find something titanium or something extremely thin. You know, that really cuts the water has.
Steven:
No.
Jay:
Yes.
Jay:
A low you know, presence to it.
Steven:
I can't tell you though, I mean spinner bike strikes for me like good ones. Yeah, like they hog it. I've got them in the corner of mouth. You know, in the Guild plate. I can't tell you if it was in their mouth when we went sideways, how deep it was. In or with the northern where we go, did he just hog it? And I got him in the side of the mouth. A lot of your spinnerbait strikes are, and that's this is a an aside which is spinner baits have a really good hooking percentage.
Jay:
Yeah. Thank you.
Steven:
Like like you don't. I don't. Miss a lot of fish? I'm there.
Jay:
On bigger fish on bigger fish.
Steven:
I'm dinks. I mean, there's nothing. I mean, dude, I missed, like, 3 the day before yesterday. They were dinking on top water. You're going well if I had a bath size top water, I could catch as many 30s as I want. Who cares, right.
Jay:
Hmm. Mm-hmm. MHM.
Steven:
Excuse me, the the the thing for me would be. I think the big frame of slot master, you might be OK, but just just for arguments sake. 6 inch liter or like you said titanium or inaudible thing. Excuse me, might be all right. You might be good with that. So give that a try, Sean. I just can't think of the the many fish that have not had just dead to rights on spinner baits, even be hooked. But you just can't really calibrate. Where? Where the fish hit the bait so. Lack of information always makes me want to have a a good leader on. You don't want to lose a bait. You don't want to kill a fish. All right, Casey. Can I place an order? OK, yes, I actually emailed him back. Yes, we can do a signed book for you. There you go, Mark. When should I? When should I transition to outside edges? Is it after no follows or is it based solely on bait fish on my graph? Should I check shallows first and then move to outside the edges or do it in reverse? Jay. Basically what we talked about earlier, give me your read. I'm leaning on you.
Jay:
My read in the summer is is outside edges are are more key for when I've been fishing. It's just like normally I'm fishing late morning early afternoon. That's when I've been able to get out and and I'm not fishing early mornings and I'm not fishing glow light period at night so.
Steven:
Which is J. Number one, to get up in the morning, Jays gotta be sober enough, B you can't gamble in the mid. You know he's going to be, he's going to be in these bookies. So it's like drinking all night and, you know, gambling all night. So it only leaves you a few hours in the middle. Really.
Jay:
Ohh.
Jay:
You know now, so that's.
Steven:
No, you've gotta you've gotta make a read on the conditions, right? We we've got to look at things.
Jay:
As a whole.
Steven:
Well, it it if we're saying prime conditions or? You know it's cloudy, it looks money. Let's focus on that, that shallow stuff before we focus outside edge. If you go out and it's high, bright sun, dead flat, calm or nasty, let's start on the outside and work our way in. Right. What's the most logical pattern we could be on? Right. If conditions, quote UN quote suck. Generally, outside Edge is going to be better. If it's absolutely like whoa, this is it's little drizzle, Jay, and it's cloudy and it's perfect. Don't waste your time on the outside edge. Connor, I need a new reel as my dyewood took a dump on me. Should I buy another dial as I like the frame size and the weight? Or would a tranq earn a Boo Garcia be a good replacement Jay yet again?
Jay:
You know, stick with what you like. I mean, they weren't built to fail. So I mean, and if they do, they're going to stand behind them and, you know, fix it or replace it for you. So I'd look at #1 returning it to the manufacturer as soon as possible and. You know, if it's if it's in warranty, I think you know most reels are one.
Steven:
Well, maybe that. Well, that's the thing. It could be. He. You know, there's no context. He could be he. It could be the first generation Alexa. Who knows?
Jay:
Year so. That. Yeah, we don't right? We don't know exactly what model is, but sure, I mean it's like with line you know it's I don't think anyone has line failure, it's just. Extremely uncommon, you know? Mm-hmm. If you, if you like something like power Pro, why are you searching for the next greatest thing you know, if you, if you love master braid, I use Portland master Braid. Primarily it's. Just I'm not. I'm not too keen on trying something new. The stuff's.
Steven:
Great way if you dig it, you dig it, I mean. Every reel has a lifespan. What I can't, that's the interesting thing.
Jay:
Yes. No, that's true. No, that's very true. Go ahead.
Steven:
Well, something that never comes up. I'm looking at the shelf I have like these industrial shelves in the baked cave here. I'm looking at 123456. 40 super real boxes on my top shelf, right?
Speaker
Hi.
Steven:
40 diala tranks Boo Garcia, you name it. I would say 10 of them are fished. Out. Right. I know guiding fishing for my skis every day, seven days a week. I'm pretty much at Trash Reel in three to four months. And I'm talking. Seven to 10 hours a day. This is what I do. Client or no client. Wholly obsessed. Jay, you know it. What I call you every day. Hey, Jay. What you doing? Not much. What's going on? Nothing. We got some maps. What are you doing? Head of the boat ramp. Is that not every day? Is that an accurate depiction of our morning?
Jay:
Of my overall tone, you know, we got a bunch of stuff in here. 12 What I'm doing, yeah.
Steven:
What are you doing, Jay?
Jay:
Working.
Steven:
What are you doing? I'm headed to the bedroom. That's you.
Jay:
Oh, over her drinking sucker water.
Jay:
Yeah, well, that's not true.
Steven:
I'm over here eating the lead lead jig head.
Jay:
Back to what you're saying earlier is about every having a having a shelf life, though now and and that's that determination, it's just like.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Our now shelf life service life.
Jay:
Service life and you know the life of the real the the life expectancy has expired. It's like more than one part has simply just worn out. Now if there's a defect, it's usually one thing, like some kind of anti reverse.
Jay:
I thank you, Martina.
Jay:
Taking the proverbial ****.
Jay:
Jerry goes for Steve, right?
Steven:
That's happened soon. Correct. If you got a faulty parts like ohh crap your third trip and you're like dude done, yeah. But. Once you, it's a weird deal. Wear. You wear a reel out and there's no way you could like this real broke. Now you go. I killed it. UM, probably the biggest trophy I have in the Bat cave is having a book, Garcia Rivo. Where my thumb wore through the plastic. Literally like there's a hole in the plastic from just touching it, not rubbing on it, and just and I went. That thing lasted longer than it really I've had. So what, you know, if if it if you're making a move and and it's something never gets talked about what is the shelf.
Jay:
Hmm.
Steven:
Life of real. 3-4 six months. Seven day. I mean, there's a lot of hours because I typically will fish. A a slow month for me is 25 days of Muskie fishing day. That's why I brought up. I call you. I mean, how many I call. You every freaking day. What you. Doing I'm like, hey, Jay, where you, Andrew? I'm headed looking. I don't even know. I call you Jack. You just make that sound. It's weird. Stop doing it. What did you have for lunch, Jay?
Jay:
No time to eat. That's what I usually say. Meat. I'll eat when I'm dead. I often. That's an answer I usually give too.
Steven:
Right, Jay, get your health sucker tank.
Jay:
Eating's for.
Steven:
Wimps. I've said that too many times, right? Anyway, but with the the amount of you know what? Something I need to lock something I've never done. When I do all these.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Spreadsheets and everything is like. When I crack a new reel and I put it on the rod, I need to start looking, but we need I.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
You know what? That's like legitimate. Like, what's the federal where? I would say the lowest failure rate for me. Just thinking about this, looking at the shelf full reels, the lowest failure rate I have is a cumin Shimano.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Not show them for a particular brand, but I have yet to Branka Tranks. You've worn them down to where they feel weird.
Jay:
And they're not as smooth as they once were. They're, you know, but they still function.
Steven:
I think smooth is way smooth. Is a sucky word right? Like if you fish hard.
Jay:
Interesting.
Steven:
Like I've got reels that sound like I'm ratcheting my boat on. Right, they're just making sound. It is what it is. But. You know, I hear that like, that's the everyone that picks up a real Jay, people walking into a store, it's like. They'll walk into Guitar Center and they'll pick a guitar. That sounds great. No, it doesn't. You've never plugged it up. You have no basis of comparison. It's just a Fender Telecaster. Like the other 40 million made, right? Where with real they go. That's smooth. That's like the knee jerk reaction of like, the the lowest bar of what a real could be. And I would bet I'm, you know, I will never design A reel that's way above my pay grade. But I I would guarantee some engineers going how do I make this real? As quiet as possible on 1st grab. Right first graph. They're packed with grease for #1. Like every new reel you get, they are gunked up. They're full of grease. If you don't believe me, buy any real take it apart before you throw it. It is frill full of blue grease. Right, typically. This very tacky stuff that will not. You know, disperse with water well after a while with with line bleed with with a little bit of spittle from your your line and the elements and heat, the grease is going to go where the.
Jay:
Heat.
Steven:
Grease. Go. It just seeps out in small increments and then you have brass on brass. Or stainless on stainless in there. Deal is not quote UN quote smooth there. If a gear set. Is. Toothed properly, meaning the teeth are properly aligned and it's packed full of grease. Guess what? Every reel is Jay smooth. So I always look at durability right when I kind of get off of a real. Is when it's just annoying. I know that sounds stupid, but I'm just like in real time gone. When I check out on around go, Oh my God, that thing just sounds like I'm grinding peanuts at Trader Joe's making my own peanut butter. That's when I'm out. You can usually tell. That that a super real was done. You know from from the fact you get a lubricated and the Paul is weird and I think that's like the number one thing where I'm like when I'm done with the real, if I've worn out one or two poles. PAWL.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Which is the lying guide? The worm gear? I don't know of a super reel that has anything outside of a stainless steel worm gear. Right. So the worm gear is what moves your line gatherer left to right, and then you have the main drive. That translates into the spool, right? So you get gear set there. Typically the paw will wear out first. Followed by the main drive gear. Sometimes you can get two paws out of a reel. Once you've got two worn out. Typically the main drive gear is starting to get less than premium, right? So Paul's number one that wears out number two is your anti reverse bearing. And Jay, you said kind of said that. That was a major factor when we were in round round reels. Right. So versus.
Jay:
Well, it sure was, yeah. It wasn't that long ago where that was an issue.
Jay:
I know all the.
Steven:
Time. So I actually have two sockets. I can see them here. They're in a plastic sandwich bag hanging on my work bench that are meant to knock out and replace anti reversed bearings. So there was a tool, a boom made or you could use like the perfect. I can't remember what size sockets they are. I could go and grab. You could use a socket.
Jay:
Really. OK.
Steven:
Knock it out and then another socket to knock it in with like a ball peen hammer on the side plate. To get that entry, they caught it the the clutch dog or entry reverse.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
To work. Now, what's interesting in most super reels they use a very. So let me back it up. And Abu Garcia reel had a clutch dog that was like roller bearings, right? So if you can imagine, like trailer bearings, they would only go in one way.
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
So they've only turned forward so as you reel the reel.
Jay:
Steven:
Towards the water, that bearing can only go that direction, meaning the handle could only turn that direct. A lot of your super reels use a spring loaded clutch dog. That hits a cog that is behind the main drive bearing. When that clutch dog. Wears out now your handle will turn backwards. Right. And the clutch dog and these modern reels are typically a a stainless or a brass clutch dog. With these two little slivers. Of of whether it be brass, whether it be stainless steel on the side that. Kind of. Cope around the sides of a a cog right inside the reel.
Jay:
Steven:
And when those two little feathers, these two little fingers that grab the sides of that cog, wear out, your anterior verse goes up. Because now the clutch dog's not lined up properly and it's kind of misaligned and and not grabbing. So you're Paul's number one, your clutch dogs. Number two. I've never had a real job. Where the A bearing went out. Have you were like ohh, just a straight out bearing burnt up.
Jay:
A long time ago on like you said before, round rail. Yeah, some old stuff. Yeah, they they had a somebody had a line of reels. I don't even want to. Even if I could remember which exact model it was on, I shouldn't bring it up. And I won't. Yeah. But, you know, just problematic, you know, this is going back 15 years or something like that. And it was a popular reel, so a lot of people were using. It and the the bearings kept going out.
Speaker
On these things.
Steven:
Bearing after bearing and for bearing, yeah.
Jay:
So yeah, it's a thing of the past. You just don't hear that happening anymore with the way they're designing these things and the way they operate, it's. OK, so they hold up. They hold up really.
Jay:
Your.
Steven:
Well, I'm going to average this out. 6 * 25 is 150 * 6. 900 hours. So if we average out a month of me guiding and fishing. Do it again, right so. Let's do 2525 days at minimum, six hours times 6. Is 150 hours a month on the water right? Times 6 months, 900 hours. That seems to be. The typical shelf life for a real like I've been, I've had really good luck as of late with like the the Diawara. Was it TW right?
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
But I would say I'm on my I know it's not. I would say I'm on my second TW. I'm on my second. Pro Rex this year. And my pro Rex is now starting to get a little. Little gimpy, right?
Jay:
Steven:
The only like I said, the only reels I've not had that happen where I just go in and I'm done with this and then cause it just just doesn't feel right or Shimano's anyway. Down, down in the hole. Jay down. Sam, what's your tips on night trolling? Love the podcast Meow Night trolling.
Jay:
Oh.
Steven:
UM oh. Night fishing is a game of slow and big, just like Jay likes him. If I'm trolling and I'm going with the. Jay is looking for the slowest and the biggest at the end of the night, aren't you every night? It's like just calling Jays creeping around.
Speaker
Last year.
Steven:
Making that call. Anyway, big baits that run well at slow speed. 12 inch headlocks trawling girls double tins. I've done very well with the Bucher. Bigfoot. It's not something we talk about a lot because casting the Bucher Bigfoot Double 10s is a a an exercise in torture at times. Baits that have a lot of lift. I want baits that run moderately shallow for their class, not not not that they run shallow overall but like you know, Colorado Double 10s will run slightly deeper than the Bigfoot Bucher where I want the most thump. A dark profile. And I want something that is really, really, really active at a slow speed, right? So when I and I said supernatural, I said Headlocks. I'm like matlocks. So 12 inch matlocks, 10 inch matlocks. Right. They have a bigger wobble, a fatter profile, a bigger thumb. Slower speed. So I want to go slow and I want to go big at night when I'm trolling that allows Muskies to dial in. It allows them to catch up, right? Numerous times have I been night trolling have I heard whoosh?
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Steven:
I've heard misses while crawling. Cause you're going, you know 3. You know, and with a four stroke you'll hear. You'll hear the miss and you'll hear the. Then you'll hear the drag rip. Right. You don't want to go be going fast night drawing. You don't want to be making too much commercial. You you might get a muskie falling. Where is it? What is? It what is what? You know numerous times. Like I said, I'll hear. You know, 10 seconds later I got the hook up because he caught up to it. My other thing with night trolling is chartreuse, black or glow. That's it. You need three colors and you need a lot more black than you need the other two. That's it. Glow glow is one of those things, like glowing colors or UV colors.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
And they don't work everywhere. It it's kind of too unnatural, I think at times and certain bodies. Why do they love glowy stuff or they love odd stuff, but I'm going to avoid that like the plague in Clearwater or or or very natural water. Kristen, I'm a solo female kayaking buyer, and I struggle with getting musky out of the net. And they keep rolling up in the net. That I have. I feel like I'm hurting them, especially as a kayak angler because it takes me so long to get them out of the net. What are your tips? What net net recommendation do you have that is light enough for a female solo kayak angler? But we'll keep Muskies from getting enrolled up. Salutations from Milwaukee. Jane, what is a good light net? Things that the things that suck in muskie fishing is like, really tight weaves.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
We need light and we need kayaks.
Jay:
I probably go with a Stow master because it's a folding net.
Steven:
That bag is small match though.
Jay:
Well, they have different versions though. Let me look here. They've got one with wider. So you you want to go with a wider mesh, but you don't want to go with that super. Heavy one because. There's it's just there's more weight, more drag.
Steven:
Yeah, you need the person here.
Jay:
You need them, you know. Let me see if this is the.
Steven:
One right here, 16 dash. Get a gas. Gaffe.
Jay:
The 94 size stool master would be great for a kayak and it's a big enough net for, you know, for even big Muskies they make one size larger net, but it is a big net. You know it's like 40 inches across. You got to keep this thing somewhat compact and just the folding. These things are very strong, but we're selling a ton of stole masters. That's like the new. The height. Thing they have? Yeah. I mean the 94 IM, it's called.
Jay:
MHM.
Jay:
It's not overly deep if you have a super long bag too, and it's fairly lightweight. Yeah, they can wrap up in that and then you got more. More harm than good going on to the Muskie trying to, you know, and you're then.
Jay:
What?
Steven:
You're over handling now. Now, I've never been a fan of them as far as like guiding this conservation. Like the plastic dance.
Jay:
And if so?
Steven:
You know, talking about like the flat, like the clear plastic ones, they still make those bags.
Jay:
Flat clear plastic nuts.
Steven:
Who made them then? Then this, like frat boy had them for a minute. Was like this weird concert. I don't think so. They have this weird conservation like.
Jay:
I think so.
Steven:
Flattish thing, man. Yeah. Like you said, the stone master. If the back, the promise, the stone master, those bags tear up pretty good. Quickly. You might be able to get away with this stone match with like a frable big game bag. Right. And switch that out or arrange your back. Yeah, I mean, that's the trick. I mean, some muskies just flip out. And reversing them out. Is a bit of a skill. I can think of fish this week. Well, he rolled up in it and guess what I did immediately. I grabbed my hook cutters and it just started cutting hooks. Right. I got one point in the fish I've got. Theoretically, eight of their points in the net just start cutting. You know, cut a hook, save a muskie. Just cut the points as quick as you can. Be done with it. That's going to save you a lot of wear and tear. Especially for like a solo female angler at the kayak, get the with the the NIP packs. I'd say that having good cutters is better than more important than a good good net or a wide gap net. Because those good cutters with a single hand thing you can. Yeah, this. And I'm talking. I'm shearing through seven on treble hooks like nothing. I promise you can do it when you have the the spring loaded nip X.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Right. Get the fish next to you. If he's rolled up, start cutting until he unfurls.
Jay:
MHM.
Steven:
Right, something that's overlooked often to get the beta of the equation to just cut the freaking split rings or cut the top of the eye. Often that's helpful. Right. So we're like, I could get the bait out and we go. He's got one hook in his head, and now he's picked up a random one and. He's. You know his back.
Jay:
It happens. Yeah, it does.
Steven:
You know, I mean, you'll end up hooking a fish in the face and he's got one on the top of his head and one he's mouthing. OK, let's cut the split rings to just get the hard bait or the soft bait out of the equation. And we got, OK. He's got one point in his mouth and he's got one point in his head. Grab your long nose, partners, pull the one. Out. Of his head check. Next. We got one point in the mouth. Cut away as much metal as you can. And now we just grab a hold of that with our platters because the more points off of the trouble we can get rid of, the less he can be like wrapped up. You know, and it's a case by case basis, sometimes it's the nightmare. Sometimes they're like, oh, this is easy. You you just deal with it is deal with it is Roger. I know. Like excuse me. I know you like the spinner base that bear your name. Obviously, exclamation point. But how can you say they're better than other brands? Wow. Passive aggressive much? Yeah.
Jay:
They're different. They're unique, they have no.
Jay:
I never said they're.
Steven:
Better never said they're better. I I grew up on a on grim Reapers made out Kentucky through the cramp. Out of those **** Pearsons. Obviously I've got more slot masters than the man can shake a stick out the the spinner base that bear. Steve's name? Steve. Meat grinder. Steve tailgater. Our modifications I've done to the spinner bait platform that stand out a little bit and help me with my guiding and make it easier. So spinner rates, the spinner rate of spinner rate in their right hands, all of. Them are deadly. I'm trying to make spinner baits that take the work out of them. That would be my take. I mean we got a video coming out here very shortly on spinner bait stuff but no, I mean I can you do the same things with a Bucher slot master or a A grim Reaper or a red dog or * **** Pearson's grinder or Jay. Out of their spinner baits? Oh, they're my goodness the ace bait.
Jay:
No you can do.
Steven:
It all, I've fit. I've caught a blue billion muskies on ice bait. Freaking neighbor Steve caught his personal best on Ace Bait this week.
Jay:
Yep.
Steven:
It's tactics, it's application, right? It's back to. You know, if you put a a fricking. You know, a Midwestern housewife behind the driver's seat of of an ascar. She's not going to win away or not going to win a race, Jay. Very doubtful. You know what I'm saying? It's like ohh, the new quarterback for the Green Bay Packers is Helen Munchkin Helene's taking the field air. Helen is a third grade teacher from Mosul.
Jay:
Next one.
Steven:
Nekoosa she's from Macusa class of 70. She's gonna get greased, right?
Jay:
Right.
Steven:
It's it. It's the skill of what you're doing. So give me a spay. I can do the Steve Meat grinder routine with it. You know, Gus, get up. Cut the blades off. Everything I've done, spinner bait wise, started and ended with with the Joe Bucher slot. Master platform. Right. I've actually told him that we've talked about it. Said. Hey, man, I'm doing some mods.
Jay:
Mm-hmm.
Steven:
In the Figure 8. Thing it's a little different. OK? Do you you do you, Boo. You know, whatever. So yeah, but the spinner baits I work with, they're not better. And I guess he's referring to last week's episode. It's not that they're, like, drastically different. They're they're more dialed in for what I do. And they're more dialed in to to help you achieve your goals. Quicker for certain situations, but the spinner rates of spinner bait. I mean, if you know what you're doing with spinner baits mean you're going to rock asks no matter what what brand you have. Seth, Sup dudes, when should I focus on AM bites versus PM bytes? I'm single. I'm ready to mingle and I want to catch more Muskies. Dang, Seth, he says love the podcast. Keep on rocking in the free. Man, these people are lit today, Jay. I can fish mornings. I can fish evenings. What do I focus on?
Jay:
But.
Jay:
Kind of depends on where you're going now. There's a lot of lakes in the Northwoods. There's a lot of lakes and metropolitan areas that that evenings are just a nightmare and mornings are awesome. And but the only problem is mornings is like you got to be on the water at 5:20. We capitalize that first hour and a half. Before it starts to get busy or before the light gets high enough, you know to, you know, start affecting things.
Jay:
But I mean.
Steven:
You can be hyper effective on and I I've always thought this Clearwater is is really good in the mornings a lot of time. Right. UM. That's not. That's not like, transcendent for everybody. While it's clear, but a lot of times clear bodies, water, you can get a really good morning by once the sun's over the trees, or once it's hitting the water, you're done, right. Where you know if you can do both, do it. But that's a grinder dude. Back to guiding like some of the most miserable days ever. Like, OK, we're gonna fish 3 hours in the morning and five hours in the evening. You want to feel crazy. Just run that for two months, right? I'm up at 5 and I'm back in bed at 10:00 AM. Yeah, I'm back up. You know what I'm saying? Like what? What month is it? It's a tough schedule to adhere to. It feels like your circadian rhythms are just gone. And you're just a zombie. What I would look at Seth, if you're going to make a determination between A&P and bytes, let's look at majors minors, #1. Right. Well, not #1. Let's look at weather patterns #1 followed by majors and minors. Right. So. There's a lot of times in the summer, dude like it starts warming up, the sun creeps up and guess what they're predicting rain or something of that early. I forgot early showers. If I've got prefrontal in the morning, I want to be there. Opposed to the AM Sunset lead up right? So you've got early morning rain be there if you've got late afternoon with no rain, but you had rain in the morning, it's often often sucks, so you gotta weigh those options. So weather is your number one factor followed by. Majors. Minors. What's happening typically in the shell is, and you can find a bite in the morning of the the evening. But like I said, weight them with weather and weight them with. With majors and minors, especially during peak summer. Jay, what else? What else do you think factors in there? What do you think?
Jay:
Maybe time of the year. You know, sometimes in the Northwoods around here, Bayless County, etcetera. You don't. Yeah. You know, you almost have to get to.
Steven:
Yeah, early. Yeah.
Jay:
Put. Water temps in the summer. You know you have the summer pattern going before the mornings. It's kind of like developing a night bite there.
Jay:
No.
Jay:
There, there are years where a night bite around here isn't necessarily that great for the entire summer, and a lot of people are waiting for it and they try it. They try and they try it. It's just like, you know, it didn't develop due to different things coming together like. Extraordinarily laid ice out, you know, and weed growth is different, you know, water temps didn't start to hit, you know, the 70s, you know, it was 2 weeks later than it should have. All these factors seem to probably contribute to a poor night bite. I don't know. But just back to the, you know, the the morning bite. This week I was hearing from more than multiple sources. Let's put it that way that there is this swim bait bite. Over deep weedlines midday mid afternoon, I should say heat of the day kind of deal where the mornings weren't that great and at not even early mornings, just mornings in general, right? It's just like we're still looking at that it is.
Jay:
Yeah.
Jay:
Kind of like still spring, you know.
Jay:
What I mean, which is the water?
Jay:
Right, I've, I've complained before. It's just like our water temps have been relatively stable for like a month. They really haven't gained that much. It's kind of strange, but we've had a lot of fairly cool weather, so to that. So, yeah. Anyway, morning morning bites, you know.
Steven:
Temp thing, yeah. Are we in the?
Jay:
If you're going to really concentrate on it, let's say you're taking a week and a half off or something, and you're you're traveling somewhere to concentrate, you know, on that up here, you know, in the Northern region, Minnesota, Wisconsin, that might be it might be a more solid thing to pet. Going on in June, going for the night bike, but once July hits, the morning bike could be extremely productive under the right conditions.
Steven:
What about the dot where it just depends, I mean.
Jay:
Would you agree? Obviously there's a lot of factors, but I mean, if you had to like roll the dice and go, OK, I'm going to concentrate on morning bites. In June, I would say no. Do the evening by, but once July comes, you know you're in the should be in a summer pattern wherever you are, blah blah.
Steven:
Now Frank, good evening. Blah. Well, you've been in Northwest, but it's been one of these deals where it's like, OK, you're getting some warm up in the middle of the day, but the the temperature dropping overnight, like literally yesterday I.
Jay:
Try the morning.
Steven:
Was talking to you and you went Boo. And I went what's going on, David? You were, like, it's frigid out. It was in the 50s, right? You're getting off the water. And going it's cold.
Jay:
Oh, yeah. Last. Yeah. Last weekend. Yeah, I think it was. Last weekend. Yeah, it was. Brutal. It was high of 50.
Jay:
I mean you say.
Jay:
4 Less so he.
Steven:
Need not this giant disparagement, so the only time I'm thinking morning is once we get into like, OK, it's not going to knock down shallow temperatures that much.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
Once we're into like, OK, cool. You know, if it's, say it's 75 when you get off in the evening and it could be 7270° in the morning, your your money. But when it's like the the peak, the the superficial surface temperature might hit 75, but your trolling motor on the head of the trolling motor is reading 60. Come on, you know what I'm saying? Let's let it warm up first before I'm focused on that morning bite. As a dominant factor in my vision, you know, I I think we're both going the same way there where it's like it's the never ending spring right now. Slow, slow, slow, slow, slow. But if we have a warm year, man, sometimes the morning bites just dynamite. Dynamite. You know, so it it's kind of a personal reader. A body of water. Read where, you know, a tanning body of water might be more forgiving. Whereas Clearwater is going to be a little.
Jay:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Steven:
Bit more. Fluctuating I guess more so than anything. But anyway, Jay. Hmm. We've covered some Q&A here. We've talked about all kinds of goofy stuff. We've talked about pseudo guiding. Talk about your your, your, your upcoming charges and your involvement on the dumpster gift card of Destiny.
Jay:
Has.
Jay:
Well, as everybody knows, I've been investigating this almost exclusively. Since you know, I think that story broke. You said the other day, you know, like it was a couple months ago. I think it was.
Steven:
The winner.
Jay:
Last fall, when that.
Steven:
Ohh, it's been forever. They're gonna have an arrangement.
Jay:
When that story broke, so the arrangement is coming down, OK what we need to do is get the muskie. 360 helicopter to fly some of our crew over there to cover it.
Steven:
Dudes.
Jay:
The media. With.
Steven:
Listen, you know I wanna know what happened. This guy stole a Menard's gift card out of a dumpster. It's the it's the greatest story ever anyway, Jay.
Jay:
Yeah, his name's Alan. Thank you guys, Goodnight.