Musky 360 Podcast Episode 263: Savage Gear with Mads and Danny Herbeck
Transcript
Steven:
All right, folks, welcome to the Musky 360 podcast. Jay Bird, the ghost of **** Stimkey live live live.
Jay:
It's 24/7 I guess.
Steven:
Lives 24/7 folks. Not only would he take your lawn and garden, but he'll steal your entire garage.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 5
Yes.
Jay:
You can never have enough when you're a. I guess right?
Speaker 6
It just keeps increasing.
Steven:
Listen, we did not make that. Somebody stole an entire garage and then dumped it on Swamp Rd. on swamp.
Speaker 6
Road in some.
Speaker 5
Stop.
Jay:
Yeah. Yeah. Like some public forest somewhere up here. I don't know exactly where it's true. A true story.
Steven:
I mean, there's a lot of infrastructure there. We had to bring that up. Up. Talk about. Last week did the podcast put it up and then had a problem with a corrupt file on a server the next day? So some people heard it, some people didn't. We apologize. Don't like? Just couldn't. Couldn't get it.
Speaker 5
Get it back up as.
Jay:
They can recover it, right?
Steven:
I can't get it back up. It was down, down for the count, if you will, yeah.
Jay:
These problems happen.
Steven:
It was a tech error and so we. I was like, OK, by the time I realized it was in the middle of week and back. We are again. So we're going to cover. On Monday, you're going to hear a couple things again, at least with some Bates that everybody else hasn't heard, the Cummings and the goings at the musky shop which are CC lures. What is? The D&R. And. This guy is making some cool. Jody, I think Jody, Michael told me. Didn't have a video with this.
Speaker 5
3D.
Jay:
Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah, these are handmade cedar cherk baits. The three models right? 7 1/2 and there's a nine. Two of them have these little blades on the back, so there's some video action of that up and I've got 1 coming out soon with the the soft tail version but. Replaceable weight system it's. They're basically a dive and rise into the side action quality. Podcaster John came in the other day he picked up. He must have bought three of them. He was.
Steven:
They're pretty.
Jay:
Yeah, they're beautiful, really good.
Steven:
Pretty.
Jay:
Excellent. I really love the paint work that guy.
Steven:
Yeah, I was blown away.
Jay:
Colin did on that did a great job.
Speaker
Gets that's.
Steven:
One of those cool things where you know you have a custom bait here, now and again and and this guy's kind of hand doing them.
Jay:
He's a small batch small.
Speaker 5
Batch he's got.
Steven:
The he's got these doing that he's doing the hand hand work. The job by hand. He's doing that anyway.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Steven:
But yeah, he gets a little he's got the little blade on the back there looks cool.
Speaker 5
I dig them too.
Steven:
Let me. It's like pop smacks me Diggy Diggy. Anyway looking here. Oh, Jay.
Jay:
Yeah.
Steven:
When you're going to the fridge and you're in your gonna snap a Pepsi out of the fridge, right? Pop the top on a fresh Pepsi, right?
Jay:
So it's gotta be cold.
Steven:
It's gotta be cold, so you need your magnet.
Jay:
Where the fridge?
Steven:
Oh. Right. Oh, I had the 3D magnet 3D. D After enough pepsis. Anyway, they got the musky shop back. I like it.
Speaker 2
I like it.
Steven:
Of cold. Better than that, goofing on that. So.
Jay:
We got a few calendars. Not a lot. If you need a calendar for next year, they're awesome.
Steven:
Ohh dude, we're in a huge huge discounts.
Speaker 7
Artwork not only left.
Steven:
Listen, I'm going to tell you, we don't do this is the biggest discount of the year. Jay, Are you ready? Have approval from Jim Stewart, right?
Speaker 6
Steven:
90% off 2024 calendars, Jay.
Jay:
Steven:
By the time you get it in the mail, that bad Boyle set you up for a couple weeks, it really will.
Jay:
Yeah, right. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 6
You get a.
Jay:
Good week and a half out of that thing. So you know, you can look at one month yet.
Speaker 5
I mean, yeah, get, get get get the.
Steven:
Most out of it, 2020. Calendars on sale I. Not 20/25/2020 2020 2025 calendar. He's got that something else that's kind of it's it.
Speaker
Speaker 6
To girls.
Speaker 5
J1 man's one man. You know, I don't want to say trash because not that, but people like oh, it's it's new to you, new to me.
Steven:
Abate some of you may have known. Some of you know. So we're going to call it new and it's been at the musky shop before, but it's back. Guess who's back back again. Red October. Blue tube. Yeah. And this is if you like, the tinsel and you like the rubber. You like flashy rubbers, Jay.
Jay:
Yep. And you got his tailgunner too built in.
Steven:
Yeah, tail gunner. There you go. A tube. It's not stuffed with flashbo. Ards. In there, it's flash, a booth that's molded in there for a different look on a 2 by 9 inch. And was there 11 OK?
Jay:
Correct them and do.
Steven:
Correct. Well, I'll tell you what. The one thing I have not thrown this, but if you were notoriously fishing somewhere where they are just tail grabbing tubes, that would be a nice option because not going to tear up quite like a plastic skirt. You know, I'm saying if they're always tailgating, always tail grab. There. So that's. An interesting thing, Jay bird.
Speaker 5
Just.
Steven:
Been on a freaking trolling tear, son. Have you just Frick? Nightmare Fiesta Forum out there. It's been. It's been been good, good, good. And checking out a couple things here. That freaking grandma M9. The new one?
Jay:
Yep, you sent me a picture.
Steven:
Roo. Well, it's gonna tell Jay about this is this is kind of juicy stuff and and.
Speaker 6
Uh.
Steven:
Put I did the math on it. So here it is it cumulatively 5 in the boat, right? 22 hours of. Right, which is not bad really. When you break it down. Uh, but conditions, I mean, we're talking iced up and you know the podcast we've been doing, we talking about ice. Did the Herbie 1 the other day and right? I've just been living by it the last couple days because it has been.
Speaker 6
Uh.
Steven:
- 22 You know I'm saying for the majority of the morning.
Jay:
No, not yet. Holy cow.
Steven:
Yeah. And, you know, just absolutely, positively everything we're talking about. Couple new things popping up. But it has been a, you know, a can of WD40 on the boat has been a godsend.
Jay:
Sure, sure.
Steven:
And I'll tell you, it's something I don't know. If we mentioned it when we talked last talking to Herbie, ME and him rarely remember our conversations. But like literally using as much like real grease or Vaseline on those line pulses as you possibly can. Had a freeze up the other day. A couple. Get kooky and something else that I realized. And at least on the dial was I'm using for my line counters. There's a little bit of a opening where you push the button for the reset of the counter, right? You push the button up or down or you push buttons in right.
Speaker 5
Well, guess what?
Steven:
Moisture will get in there and freeze the numbers, Jay. So just if, yeah and I I had it happen on two reels the other.
Speaker 6
Well.
Steven:
It's we had freezing like kind of misty fog, right? So the water is obviously warmer than 18 and you get this freezing mist at sunrise, and guess what? Did so. Started spraying a tiny bit of WD actually in through. Whether you reset the but I'm pushing the button down. Give a little blast just to keep some water displacement. You know water dispersion.
Speaker 2
You can't see me.
Steven:
It with fat because I actually had that freezing. I'm like, I don't know how far the baits are out. Just gonna. Go with it, but Oh my God.
Jay:
Right. Right. 'cause. Yeah, for. For those who don't know, WD40 is not a lubricant, it's a water.
Steven:
Yeah, you know. But now doing, doing stellar gym belai the tube screamer himself said. Got to try these. Let me know what you're thinking here. What's the? What's the? How they they working for Spanky Baits M9 and I put 22 hours on them and they look like a I mean they don't even look like a been trolled for like a lot of baits. Get a lot of hook rash really fast.
Jay:
Correct.
Steven:
And that kind of time, that's a good amount of time on a bait to see what I'll. So totally blown away by that. I knew I liked them before, but that was kind of a nice thing to see. Heck yeah, they're. They're new stellar, you know, go talk about freaking circus, though, Jay and.
Jay:
For sure.
Steven:
We'll have to do it because we're definitely trolling videos and actually I talked to Jim actually when I talked to you earlier today, I said I got a beep. Was Jim calling about something else? But he and I were talking about some video stuff. Going to have video, you know, definitely after the first of the year here. Everybody settles down, Jay. Once you've you've you've done. Is it? The. You've done what did everybody's done with their New Year's festivities, right? They're done. Yule Tiding all that, we'll have some cool instructional stuff for you to sync your proverbial teeth into over the winter, but definitely some. Unique trolling stuff. But it has been. Circumstanting, Jay. The other day. So I'm trolling 7 rods, right? Got my got my and a little bit. It's a setup, but it's not a setup. I've got the new and improved blade planer board prototypes, Jay. Everybody keeps asking about blades. Get emails. I get. Tons of people signed up, been working on that right. So that that's been a project. My book, good buddy Josh Hackensmith had actually done part of the design work on like how to actually implement them. Sort of came from a brainchild of Maine. A really good friend of mine. Got to the point where he made so many he can't. You know, it's it's like every time you you make something cool. Bait or? You can't keep up with it, right? And it's not worth it. So ended up getting. They're going to be mass produced. Jay knows this, but I got to mass produce once been run. Fantastic Clear action, even better than the handmade ones we are doing.
Speaker 1
Good.
Steven:
You know, hack and Smith. Is, you know, he and I just kind of said, OK, what what can we tweak even on the mast produce? Because like I said, I did the design and then we did the rough prototypes. This thing started as wood Jay.
Speaker 5
So it was.
Steven:
Believe it or not, so. Started there and I'm not. Real great Craftsman. So help me here and we got it going but.
Jay:
You know, now, you said would they weren't like paneling from a garage or anything, were they? You get the Woodward. You follow me.
Speaker
Replay.
Steven:
I can't answer that. I I can't answer that question.
Jay:
OK, OK, OK, No said. I was thinking either that or maybe you know something Smitty did.
Speaker
Yes, I'm.
Steven:
We're going to. I think we'll have a very Smitty Christmas. That's what's a bummer, because we freaking harassed Jake last week.
Speaker 2
We.
Steven:
Now the thing was lost, but. Yeah, right. I'm running with the blades on a set and doing the setup. And Jay, get up. Put the boat neutral trolling motor. Go to net, hit the icy deck in up all my freaking knees. Right. We got fish fighting now.
Jay:
Okay okay.
Steven:
Hit my controller of course. Line tangles. It's just been circles if it can go funky. It has been going funky, landed all of them. Lost one. But man, when it's icy like that and you. To move fast. You know, trying to be deliberate, but it's like, what can you do and I of anything I'll tell you. I don't know if I've mentioned in a while, but if you're trolling. If you have a remote controlled trolling motor, put it in the water. What I always. And it's been, I mean, there's been plenty of this, that and the other here as of late just because of ice and extra extra pain in the ****. But having that man put that boat in neutral then hit go on your trolling motor like I I usually keep. Set. Where my trolling motor is about, you know, 3/4 of a mile, right in speed enough to keep things from tangling extra. We hook up with a fish boat, goes in neutral. I hit the button and I go for the net, right? So I'm engaging my drone motor.
Speaker
Sure.
Steven:
And what happened the other? I if it was icy and I just hit the button but it hit. So if you guys have that where it's like your boat will stay on a constant, it will hold its heading, you know do that because that's what I'm doing now. But I didn't hit it the other day and of course now. Upon my knees and the boat is doing those spinarama with planar boards, you know so. If you want to, if you want to net a musky. So I net the fish and he's got what, 3 baits? Not any but like tied to the other lines, it was exciting. Let me put it that way. But yeah, that that's a little. Tip. We haven't covered in a while where like if you have that, at least on my motor with Min Koda, if you hit N, it's not going to hold N like the end up, it's the heading, it's your heading. Whatever your bearing is your actual. You know, numerical bearing the boat will keep going in that direction, so have that handy, but don't fall on your remote and don't undo that. Then you'll spin in circles.
Jay:
So. There you go.
Steven:
We got him. Anyway.
Jay:
Steve's tip of the day.
Steven:
Yeah, don't do this. But now it's been. I mean, just just really dialed in on. On on speed and depth. But I mean, you know, just kinda kinda kind of a hard preference with those new new grandmaster. Just it's like Mark and I've got old M9. So I've been mixing it up.
Jay:
What were? What depth are you trying to?
Steven:
Run those at that. I'll tell us it. I'll tell you that in a few weeks, when that bites over. But it's.
Jay:
There you go.
Steven:
But it's been, I'm. I mean, to be honest with, I'm running like stick baits. 'S grandmas. I'm not really trying to get them deep right so. My goal is kind of that 5-6 foot mark. If I need to go deeper than that.
Speaker 6
Uh.
Steven:
You know, so I've got in that. I mean, you can't apples apples to oranges, say like Jake, a grandma or a. I mean, it's a whole different animal in action, but if I need to say, get down deeper with that similar action, I'll probably go. With a Rachel from Livingston or Triple D. Right. So if I for a deep replication which is like if you like next level muscle vision talk about all the time where? I'm not worried about the bait as much as I'm worried about a short line from work control and perfect running depth. Because even with with Mino baits and things of that nature, 99.9% of the time that the action the bait's great but you're going to have to be doing some triggering things with your boat to get the. Eat. You know, so anything deeper than about 5-6 with these flat set of mini baits. I'm probably going to switch it out and go triple D Rachel.
Speaker
'S.
Steven:
For that same kind of like 9 inch body, I think a. And a triple these about 9:00 somewhere in that neighborhood. You know, I'm not going to. I'm not going to be trying to rent. Like 200 feet behind the boat, 100 and 100 feet behind the boat. And if you're curious about trolling charts actually added a new one. Of trolling. Smack the new one. Uh. On the app for the Ivan lures J. Look up, you know, he's got that.
Jay:
Yeah, just been almost very happy with them.
Speaker 5
Looking over.
Jay:
Yeah, Jim. Jim got out earlier this week. I don't know anyone else that did fish in the Northwoods Tuesday or whatever he got out, it was cold and nasty. Everything frozen up.
Steven:
Is it all locked up?
Jay:
They got out, yeah.
Steven:
Is is that the end? Is it just locked up tighter than?
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, like Wednesday, Thursday, we. I think it was high of 0 on Wednesday and you know 15 below at night.
Steven:
What about like the trout?
Jay:
Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not.
Speaker 5
I am.
Jay:
I think they they might have gone out there Tuesday, either Tom or Trout. Know someone of the bigger lakes? Know it was. The landing was a. They only had to bring salt with them and a lot of preparatory type stuff, you know.
Steven:
Yeah, I mean. Prepatory preparatory work.
Jay:
Get everything out of there.
Steven:
Preparatory B. Now I'm looking here E looking like the grandma M9, the old school 1, right? You know it's it's going to go 20s your Max, but by the time we get, I had to look here by the time we hit. 12 feet, right. So to hit 12 feet of line with AM 9, we're at 88 feet from the rod tip, Jay. Right. Hey Cortana. That's quite a bit of line to have any kind of triggering mechanism or contouring control, right? Realistically, for me there's a big difference is. Then this is what I'm looking at when it comes to trolling bait, so I'll pull up, OK. The M. So to hit 5 feet, it's 25 feet to hit 10 feet, it's 68. He a little bit much for me. You see. I'm going for where I would rather looking. OK. I need to hit 10 feet on the shortest distance. It's not. The shortest distance, but similar size similar action. What's going to have a more aggressive lip to shorten things up? So when I'm doing jukes and jives? And I'm I'm I'm I'm kind of whipping the boat around, right? What's going to? So you look here, it's the the. So line length, that's eight. Let me find the triple D. So what I'm comparing? Is is overall size. Minnow baits when they're troll Jay. What they. They wackity schmackity to the side from, you know, wack, wack, wack. We. You know, but I mean, you look at like a legend plow 14 feet is 29 feet of line. Right, so a legend plow is going to be a little more apt to get down there.
Speaker 5
Let me see here. Just looking.
Steven:
But you know, looking here. Like the B&E being in Magic Claw. So I'm kind of just looking at all those same kind of style abaits and kind of working through what's going to be the easiest you know what's the least amount of line I have to have out here. Say I need to hit 8 feet. Look here. 10 inch slammer minnow, right. 30 feet's gonna get me. 8-9 feet opposed to 80 feet because when we're taking this tight turns, we're doing stuff like that.
Jay:
Yeah. OK.
Steven:
You want boat. Which good boat control means great bait control better? Control means more hook up speaking hooking up. We talked to him last. We're going to do it even better this week. Because last week's episode is. So this is like 2 episodes in one last week this week. Every week here at. About to talk to Mads from Savage gear. Yes. Now don't get listen. A lot of people mispronounce.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Steven:
Is sausage gear. It's not. It's sauvage, correct?
Speaker 6
It.
Jay:
Depends on what country you're from.
Steven:
But I remember that there was a Johnny Depp clones Sauvage sausage.
Jay:
Yeah. When he's out in the desert with like, a custom.
Speaker 5
Les Paul yeah.
Jay:
You know, air guitaring. Oh, very artistic.
Steven:
Savage, but anyway, Savage said. We're going to have masses from savage gear. Danny is from sausage gear. Agree.
Jay:
It's pretty much sums it up, Sadie.
Steven:
I'm just playing with anyway. She blows. Talk about more. I set it up well, Jay. More technical. We're sitting here. We're finally hooked up. We've got Danny on the phone and then. Here very shortly, Mads. Me.
Speaker 7
I don't know where he is like. To keep track of. Either. Just he's in Thailand or he's in China at the actually at the Sabbath year factory right now.
Steven:
Bangkok. I don't. You need any good Thailand jokes. Anyway so.
Speaker 6
No, there's a crocodile shy over there is.
Jay:
Excellent, I heard.
Speaker 5
The crocodile.
Steven:
Did I have a culvert? Big cracks.
Speaker 7
Not yet.
Jay:
McDonald's.
Steven:
Had a had a breakdown at the Culver's. Thailand, so.
Speaker 6
Wish.
Steven:
Anyway.
Jay:
Not a place you.
Speaker
Take it.
Jay:
To blow a training, let's just.
Steven:
You know, take maintain your vehicles at all times. Listen, I'm just telling you stay on top of things.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Steven:
He'll help you avoid costly repairs. Danny, how's the Great North Rd. Right now.
Speaker 7
It's it's the great white N, that's for sure. Mean we're. We're looking down 2 feet of snow. The ice conditions suck.
Speaker 6
Yeah.
Speaker 7
What ice we do have is covered in slosh. We got kind. Off to a bad bad roll for. Winter.
Steven:
Brilliant. Well.
Speaker 7
Let's just say that you know.
Steven:
You do some ice skating, correct?
Speaker 7
Yeah, here I do primarily like March, end of February, March, April is kind of when I focus it just to around the the warmer periods of of the winter. Obviously the fishing's the best and the weather's a little bit usually a little bit more cooperative.
Steven:
Gotcha.
Speaker 7
And. I I you know, I used to do it all winter, you know? Ended December, January, February. All the way through. And you know, booking out and having people arrive on a certain day and they show up and it's 40 below and I get it. On your on. You want to go fishing while.
Speaker 6
No.
Speaker 7
You know, besides besides being downright dangerous, being out there, if something was to happen, I mean, it could potentially be life threatening. But like the the the cost ratio to what I can make, just it the the dollars and cents that add up at 40 below everything you touch breaks.
Steven:
Oh, I would, yeah, I would. I would. I mean, I don't know anything about ice fishing is why I asked. How would 1 even? How would one even set up to have a moderately not suck time like?
Speaker 7
Well, I mean, you gotta be at that temperature. Have to be in a shack. Know what I mean? Like you know, your portable track, they all have like.
Speaker
Speaker 5
What's? Jay's already set up for that year round.
Speaker 6
You.
Steven:
Jay Jay lives in a small shack. Behind the Northwoods lake.
Speaker 5
Rent's cheap.
Steven:
Anyway, so fast bag. Yeah, and it's booby trap driveway. Just a bunch of cans and a claymore.
Speaker
Then he called.
Speaker 7
Call before you stopped by, huh?
Speaker 6
Do you wanna do that?
Speaker
Then you know just to put.
Speaker 6
It mildly, yeah, you should.
Steven:
She's only. Jays hobby in the evenings is writing letters to government officials. You know, so. He gets. Work and just just write some letters to congressman and whatnot. Anyway, anyway, so you're saying you got to be in a shack, but I mean, is it even tenable to be warm or is it just misery?
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 7
Aura. But I mean, I mean you you touch like when you're first setting up. You touch like those plastic windows and. Chatter like, you know the simple things of getting your, like, your electric batteries to work on an auger or starting an auger after. Because I mean, like up here, it's not like simple ice fishing like what you do in the US, you don't just drive to a boat. Walk out on a lake and set up like everything is back. ***** here, like you know, you know, a lot of the stuff that I might fish in the winter that you can't get a boat in in the summer, like it's just super remotes. And that's what makes it so cool. But I mean some of the stuff is, you know, 1520, thirty miles back in the middle of. North.
Speaker
Alright.
Speaker 7
And you know. Go. You know your tipping machine or something. I mean, it could be, you know, you got to.
Steven:
Lights out, yeah.
Speaker 7
You know, you know are.
Steven:
I think that that.
Jay:
You are you primarily fishing in the winter. I mean, is that the main?
Speaker 7
No, do it all. It all. We get some really big Pike gets gets, you know, obviously phenomenal while fish and really good Lakers and. Not on. We don't have them, but you know, a lot of the lakes around here, we get really good big crappies as well.
Steven:
He's on the crop easy, he says. Now that's.
Speaker 5
Steven:
I can't imagine, like I said, that is kind of my definition of hell. If you if you want to suffer miserably, do what you're talking about.
Speaker 6
Steven:
That. That would suck anyway. Danny Mance is going to be here any second, at least. Said he was. But what do you have brewing? What's? Kind of tone around your brain right now. Going to happen at Savage gear.
Speaker
For.
Steven:
The for the next year.
Speaker 7
Well, I mean. I mean, obviously, you know, we're trying to make a really, you know, good push pushing the market and you know not make just, you know, a a little a little bit of noise. Trying to make as much noise as we can and.
Steven:
Oh, hold.
Speaker 7
You know, pit out.
Steven:
Here he is. Have you heard that little brief pause? We actually. We just heard from mad, so we got Mads. Jays. Everybody, so Mads. Jump in the fray. I was just asking. Danny. What? What do you guys kind of have in store for for 2025? Kind of the the master plan here, with Savage going forward for this year.
Speaker 1
Well, I think.
Speaker 6
I think the natural progression is is, you know basically right in front of us. If you look at the lineup that we we worked on for. Last two years.
Speaker 7
You're probably going to see a really cool hardware.
Speaker 6
There's a few building tricks. And then we're definitely doing something with tap water.
Steven:
Very cool. Cool. Any, any, anything you can illuminate for us or? It just. You.
Speaker 6
Know I well, I think I think what. The most interesting thing is that we. We found we solved a few problems on some of this kind of this category of loose and monster fishing week. Found a few ways to. Make it very adaptable on the day. You know when you're fishing these small details, they mean so much. The day right?
Steven:
Absolutely. Just changing it up and then I know Dean, I know Denny's just integral in the in that design, Danny or what?
Speaker 6
That's overland.
Steven:
What? What's up your sleeve? Were getting started. What's kind of up the? Where do you think it's how it's going to affect what we're doing in North America?
Speaker 7
Well, and I mean that's what's so cool about like. You know, working with Mads, I mean, these guys over in Europe, the way they fish, they take it to like a whole nother level compared to what we do over here in North America. Like just a little subtle.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
The differences in how they change baits and you know some of the stuff that they do over there that we don't really acknowledge it being done in the you know in the monkey world is.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
And some of the stuff that Madge is brought to light on, just like how, how such subtle little differences that you wouldn't think can totally change the whole react, the the action of the bait and what the bait does. And you know, and get a lot more bites on on, on a daily basis by just changing some very fine fine aspects to abate, you know, just being able to make the bait task farther and. Not get followed as much and you know.
Steven:
Mm.
Speaker 7
You know, and once again just, you know, having that proper weighting on that. To get. Get to get to bait down and stay down in that depth for, you know, the entire cast versus you know what I mean? Let me having it.
Steven:
Right, right. Or you're in the zone. Far more, yeah.
Speaker 7
There for. Exactly.
Steven:
And putting it where it needs to be. What would he say? I mean, you know, having both of you on here, you guys can just run with it. What? Say are like if if someone was looking at savage gear, where do they start? If you're a muskie.
Speaker 5
Anger here.
Steven:
What's the best place to start with Savage gear products?
Speaker 6
Well, I think I think, Danny, you know that. One of the. Lures that you've been using for a long time was actually. 80 year.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 6
Section that it's a it's a. It's a pretty, pretty close invitation. The. We couldn't get the bulldog in Europe three years ago, so and it was really. Texas and I wanted to create something that was better, just like Danny mentioned, just for the food freaks, the inside harness. That the inside harness wouldn't get ripped out so easy, I wanted to add a little secondary movement to the. Of. Bait and the small side fence and then that perfect full weight so that when you were ripping it. Fall in a way that the things would move due to that perfect rating and that that would create.
Jay:
Mm.
Speaker 6
Lot more bikes. And I think after we, Danny is using it as actually he's utilizing those small. And getting a lot. Bytes.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 7
That's and that's that's one thing. I mean, with that alien, you don't want to. Don't want. Call it a bulldog because, yeah, it may look like it, but it does not fish like a bulldog. And you know you have those two rudders on the top and the bottom of that bait that makes. That bait dart side to side and you get those reactionary bites on a rubber bait, whereas you wouldn't necessarily on any other type of curl tail be because you're getting that side to side. And getting that triggering response right. And I mean that bait. Overlook it because it's a smaller it's a smaller bait.
Speaker 6
But the biggest muskie I.
Speaker 7
Have ever caught in my whole career, I. Caught an alien eel.
Steven:
That was a 37 1/2.
Speaker 7
I mean, I got a 50 foot. Wine .7 pounder.
Steven:
Pocket has his name caught monsters on. If you remember Danny, when you're in my boat in Canada, you open up my rubber box and it's just nothing but alien eels. That's just.
Speaker 7
There was mad. I opened his box and I am not kidding you. Was 75 alien eels in it?
Steven:
Remember, I think of pillaged all of eBay for all the big ones that are left. You guys haven't had those for a while, but. That's the interesting thing, because people would look at that bait and go. It's a bulldog, but it's not it, really. I mean, the looks are deceiving on that bait because it just runs so differently. What you guys are saying it's got it's dialed in.
Speaker 6
Yeah. It's it's not exactly a beautiful day. It's not a beautiful day that is definitely not something that I'm proud of, but I can tell you that thing will catch a. Of.
Steven:
Absolutely.
Speaker 6
And it's the same. You asked where to start, so that was. Mm. Soon have 20 years on. So it's interesting that they're still catching so many fish, and I think moving forward for some. The newer. That we brought out where Danny has been involved. When I work with Danny, it's very, very easy because. She knows so well what you want. And what we need. Can. He can explain to me in a heartbeat. What it is he wants? That makes my life so much easier because I go back.
Jay:
Sure.
Speaker 6
Go back in the lab and I I I I build it and I keep doing it until it pass what he needs and then I add a little bit of extra.
Steven:
Just dialed in.
Speaker 7
Mad, Mad, mad builds what I want. He puts the flare on it.
Speaker 5
Right, yeah.
Steven:
And then that's what it takes.
Speaker 6
Amazon. And that's what makes it so fun. Made our blade. I just knew that we had to do it a little bit different. Needed to think about casting distancing to the wind. Need to keep keep. Having this immediate rotation. We need. Think about hardware. Generally, things that I found coming into this musky fishing. The last 3-4 years like real taking it real serious is the lack of attention to hardware, mostly base, which is a little bit. When you go at me for **** for the fish of 10,000 cats, you for all your energy, all your effort in getting this fight. But then when you look at the hooks and the hardware in general, it's not there.
Steven:
Yeah, I. Most of the time, it's simply. Yeah, it's it's underwhelming. And yeah, not not, not eat, not even to the fish. Yeah.
Speaker 6
It really is. Look at the. Bass. Look at the bass. Look what they do to make their, you know, their hook up rate. Look at what the quality they use in general, I mean, and that's what we build into this atmosphere. Means the top of the chain. Of the hardware.
Speaker 5
And one thing I will.
Speaker 6
And I think that's important.
Steven:
What a conversation I had on the boat yesterday was actually about one of your baits. You might. Mad's. You're kind of heading that direction where we were talking about trolling the hybrid Pikes, right? With the breakaway hook systems out of the bottom, and you've had that in the past, where and especially something people don't even think about, attention to detail, which there's a hook holder built into the alien eel, by the way. Right, so your front hook has a hook hold.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Steven:
You know, if you've not realized that, you don't need magnets or anything. But the importance with some of these bigger rubber baits, what you've done on. Some of them, which is the breakaway harness most American anglers, North American English, don't get it that if you have the breakaway harness, you're going to lose far less fish that way. You know with that.
Speaker 7
Select.
Steven:
That the intention of your. Because I know on some of them you have the harness that will pull. So it hits this bait and the weight of the bait of the equation is that the gold error.
Speaker 6
Well, if you think about it right, I mean. When I was younger, I would think, OK, the muscle is just a Big Brother at the Pike. The same fish you. You can, if you're really, really good, you make your loose and the way that you fish, if you just imitate what they want to eat perfectly, you're going to get success. Mm. Did I get my *** handed to me?
Speaker
That's not.
Speaker 6
The way it works.
Steven:
Right.
Speaker 6
So the must is not a pipe. Muster is completely different animal. It's one of the few fish. Where they decide when they want to eat, they decide if. Going to catch them. Or. You can put as much effort and time in there if they don't want to eat or some weird behavior pattern, you might stay at the dog. Your Pike, Pike, or opportunist feeders. If you pursue a lure in front of a Pike and it believes it's. There's a 90% chance it's going to attack it. And that's what we all that. We were really into this collection trolling of the very deep water super GIM clear, where you where the Pike would come up from the temperature pipe, they would sit and look up, and they would see this giant profile base and they would just come and hammer it, right. Soon as they got a notion they wouldn't stop. And if you fish that did stop, you know, they'd look at the bait this. At. Same time where we where I worked on the water wolf this camera so we could see how the fiber behave if they just came up and followed the. They. Actually, eyeball it. Some fish would sell it more than a minute, eyeballing the bait, trying to figure out if there hooks in this thing. What is this thing? Mm. So that's where that obsessive. To detail came in. The breakaway system. Because for this big fish attack. A whole day you get 2 buckets. The last thing you want is the 50 inch fish rub and tail walk and use the weight of the bait to throw the hooks. That's the last thing you want. So that's where that line through system came. We protected that line through system so that 99% of the fish that would attack. And get hooked on the bottom jaw. Would never ever get off. And it. Trust me, it works. Yeah, but the must have a different, a different draw system. They they crank. So far, they buy so hard into these sulfates that if you don't RIP the hell out of it, set the hook car, or the hook is so big that it actually bites into the hook over the side. Who's?
Speaker
Yeah.
Speaker 6
So I think that's why you also see we pay so much attention to the rating and the hook size and all of this stuff. You can only learn on the boat. You can only learn this on the water.
Steven:
Right. Absolutely. I mean I think that I think that's really the core of the matter here is is the attention to detail that Denny's always saying about when you guys are doing baits. And I it's you see it when you fish it where it's just like okay that the. The hooks are right for the body. When a fish you know and that's the thing. If you can have the right bait in the wrong. Duration of hardware and it's it's not as effective as it could be. Think that's? You guys are taking at that level? You know, as far as developmental, I know Mads has got to got to get to get moving and grooving here. But you know, as far as developmental stuff, you guys are obviously dominate Europe. If you don't realize that these guys dominate Europe. Is there any cool stuff we're not seeing that you guys are doing over there? Is it? Everything crossing over right now. Bring. Are you offering all the European baits here?
Speaker 6
Well, Danny, when he sees the catalog, whenever I come over, I have stuff with me, you know? Then he just points out I want this. I want this. I want this, you know. And that's true. We we, we're. Of the cool things from the European scene that we. Use in North America. But of course it's also we have to build the business, we have to set this up. Right way. So we take it. By step and and and we're so. That we we have the. The support of fuel fishing and the way that they support us so that Danny and I build this at the right pace, it's very comforting and I can tell you the the news that we just brought out the, the Berber cheap, you probably fished it, heard about it.
Speaker 2
Mm.
Speaker 6
At Denny's brainchild, we just had time to perfect that so that we have those things that we need and we bring out the questions. Second question that you probably also heard about turning out to be a fantastic software for muskeg. On we. Building those things that we just talked about. Red Heart, where the right hook sizes the perfect full rate. One thing about muscle fishing is that we. So. It's a powerful fishing rule with the bait fishing, because your little cobbler, you need to get down and one thing that's 100% for sure is that the muskie is a very reactionary bite over the pipe bite. So speed. Speed matters a. And you got to be able to. Fish debate so that they run true if you exactly what you want, but are twice the speed at least and twice the aggressiveness on the RIP and on the pause when I'm Patricia.
Steven:
Interesting. Well, very. Well, I know you got big plans today. So man, we appreciate you coming on the show. Harass Danny a little bit more, but we appreciate you.
Speaker 6
Hey, Danny. Yeah.
Steven:
You so much.
Speaker 6
Stay warm.
Speaker 7
Very well, man.
Speaker 6
You guys have an awesome day.
Steven:
Thank. Yes, you too, babe. Good mate.
Speaker 6
See.
Steven:
You. Alright, what do you? We still got Danny here, guys. Mads is, like we said, we'll figure out what part of Asia he was in. I know there's a little noise floor there here. I think Danny, is it possible he was just washing his hands in a truck? Stopped the entire time?
Speaker
*****.
Speaker 7
I just I think just.
Steven:
I kept hitting. He kept hitting the button. Hey and drop. I'm teasing now.
Speaker
Well. Now.
Steven:
He's doing his best over there.
Speaker 7
No, but uh. I mean it's very. It's like I said to the like the way they fish over there and like, that's one thing cool. By working with him is like how attention they how much attention they pay to detail. And like he talks so much about that Pike fishing and that realism. And being able to incorporate that. Realism into our bait plus make it a reactionary and be able to fish it fast and get those bites. I mean, it's just it's it's. All around win. And I mean, like I said, if I can dream. Up or think. He can build it and.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
One thing that's like I'm really noticing a lot of if if you notice with a lot of the rubber baits that savage gear builds and every. It has a lot of like micro movement stuff to it that make different noises and different sounds than just, you know, like you take a curl tail bait and yeah, it'll catch fish. But then you throw like a savage gear, one that has like the every fin has. Right, right. Like a little boot on it and it's got. Like different shapes of these. So it's throwing off all these different little vibrations and different noise. Is that? Fish that are looking at, you know, a rubber style bait have never felt before. Never seen before, right? So like these hold these little micro movement things that you may think are just a gimmick. They actually can generate. Bites for.
Steven:
Like you know, you look at Danny's burbitt tube. You got little whiskers. He's got whiskers on him, Mr. Whiskers. But you know, you look at, but you look at it, though. These things are moving.
Speaker 7
Mm.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
It's visual aided visual. And probably vibration like. The probably the biggest sleeper bait in muskie fishing. I've said forever and you're telling me? Is that freaking alien eel you know and your your dad and I have argued. Do they stop catching fish when they lose the side fence to the point I've literally taken them where?
Speaker 7
Normally.
Steven:
Have a bag of just like you know the little bass size grabs or whatever. If I lose a side fin, I just glue one in this hole. Finn came off.
Speaker 7
Oh, you got it. You got to. The ticklers on the side or they're useless it seems. Why do you think?
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 6
Why?
Speaker 7
Do you think I have like 100 of them stockpiled up in my basement?
Speaker
It.
Speaker 7
Steven:
Why are we telling everybody this or whatever? But Buster, 12. Buster. 12 bucks. That's the other thing. And.
Speaker 1
I mean, really.
Speaker 7
That's what. That's what I'm getting. Like one of the cheapest rubber baits for monkey fishing. And Angler could buy. Like they're they're basically like throw away musky baits for $12.00 compared to people are spending. You know, you look at some stuff now you're spending $7080 for a rubber bait now. You know that gets chewed on, you know.
Steven:
Well, but it's it's kind of terrifying. That's the. You're, you know, the savage gear price point is always always good. Heck, man, why have you here? Let's let's just you know it's. It's all this, but yet again both of us like tubes. In a shocking twist, right, Jay likes tubes as well, but.
Speaker 5
I got you.
Steven:
I don't know if we've done it. Haven't done awhile. Let's just compare notes on tubes. The berbert tube. I'm the Kraken tube guy. We like them. Danny, where would you say if you were just gonna shoot from the hip? When, where and why? With the burbot tube or just tubes in general? Like what? Is it always a go to for you or what? Kind of your game plan with the tube.
Speaker 7
Well, I mean, obviously. You know the the cracking tube has an interchangeable weight system as well. I would say, you know, the Kraken has a slower fall. Definitely for. And you know you can't RIP on it quite as aggressively as you can, you know, like any other rubber style tube. I mean I I throw the crack and I catch fish on it. Tend to throw it. The fish are a little bit shallower. Personally. And you know, you can take the weight out of that. Can throw it over top of the weeds. You know? And then like, you know, you have your rubber style tubes like, you know, the burbot tube or a red October or whatever. You may pick. You know the nice thing about the Bermuda is it has a, you know, once again it has an interchangeable. System. So I mean you can fish that burbot tube relatively shallow and you could clip on the weight and you could get down to. Honestly, I throw you know, Eagle Lake fish are a little bit different than you know a lot of places. Know that Steven, you. A lot of time up there. They tend. A lot of times be a little bit deeper in this and that. So I mean literally, I throw a tube from. You know, opening week all the way to, you know, ice up. Some days they don't want it as good as others, you know. Some days, you know you gotta play around with. You know. Yeah, it's nice having the spinner on the back, but I've also flattened, you know, taking the spinner off and throwing without spinners and some days they want add a little bit more. But you know, I fish. I'll fish like you're cracking generally myself. Personally, when the fish are when I need a shallower tube presentation. And you get that little bit more. With that little. You know, when you take the weight out?
Steven:
Yeah, the hump up of it, yeah.
Speaker
Yeah.
Steven:
Thanks.
Speaker 7
Yeah, yeah, you get. Hang a little bit more and you can keep it out of the weeds or on top of the shallow rocks a little bit better. Personally, like and then if I'm going, you know that next step deeper. I I generally switch to a rubber style tube myself, but.
Steven:
When you're doing that, like, are you? Mainly I I, I've I've fished with you a bit and all this stuff, but like, on on the on the general end of. You know, is it, is it a matter of you with the rubber tube really. Like getting aggressive with. Are you trying to cover as much of the water calm as you can with, say, the burbot tube? Is it a matter of? The added weight because like you said. That the. Heavier bait. You can get a faster speed, more erratic action. So.
Speaker 6
Right. Yeah, you.
Speaker 7
You make you made fun of. Not only once, but twice about how hard I how hard I fix things right.
Steven:
And it will continue. Yes, how tall do you fish things? Yes.
Speaker 7
My I would.
Steven:
I I didn't say hard. Said hard.
Speaker 7
I like. I liked my my whole deal is I like to get down and I like. Work stuff fast. I like a heavy bait and I want to. I want to be able to RIP. I want to be able to get down there and RIP on it versus having to. Kind of slowly fish it down and yeah, you can get some bites by a slower. Yeah, but generally for, you know, unless the fish are really fired up like in those down times, the down part of the day is to get a fish to eat, a fish to eat. You're getting. You're looking for a reaction bite. And you got to fix it fast to get a reaction bite, in my opinion. So I I generally like to fish heavier style baits to get down, but I mean what you'll notice is I've seen it more and more times than I've seen it lots of times. It's not rubber bait. Any bait in general, and I think I can't remember. Talked about if you had something, something that kind of changed kind of. Flipped in my you know, you trip the trigger and like, OK that made. I can't remember when or, but anyway is the depth of which you work that bait and people just think.
Speaker 5
Yeah.
Steven:
Was it?
Speaker 7
You know. Yeah you can. I can fish. Tube in the back of the boat. Can fish. Tube in the front of the. We have different gear, gear, issue reels or gear fishing it faster than I am or I'm fishing it faster than you. And just that every day finding that particular depth. Which your bait? Moving I've seen it where your baits coming in at 7 feet and you're literally not getting a follow your bait comes in at 10 or 11 feet and here they come.
Speaker 5
Yeah.
Speaker 7
So pay you know and like that's one thing I pay a lot of attention to is at the depth of which my bait is coming in. And getting that response of that fish and mimicking that cast after cast after cast and training these people. Is the speed of. Your bait needs to come in at right.
Steven:
And I think that's a lot of what I was kind of steering away with waiting, which you know the. Thing is. The the the heavier the bait, the quicker it's going to descend, the quicker you're going to get it depth. You often have to work. Really, really fast. If it's really, really heavy, it's that. We're saying the same thing as there's a dynamic between the weight of your bait, how erratic it can be, but it's it's. Appropriate target depth, and that's likely, I think. Why both of us is like with wet, say it be the burbert tube or the crack and it's apples, oranges, whatever. You know who? Me and Danny ain't fighting about them, so don't don't compare them to use. As tools but. That what I'm getting is. I think we both have figured out the problem the same way where I need the versatility of the bait to hit those target depths. Repeatability, repeatability, repeatability.
Speaker
Yep.
Steven:
And seeing it that way. But one thing I've noticed with you is boat positioning and cast links. It's super important that when you say like as far as.
Speaker 7
100% and I mean and now with the use of forward facing, it's just that much easier to know where you're at all the. But I mean as as as a rule of thumb, I would say most times I'm about 65 to 70 feet off the pinnacle of what I want to hit.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
And then by then you know an average cast for an average client, I would say is about 80 feet. So your first you know 2-3 reps of whatever. If you're throwing a jerk that you're coming, you know, at two to four feet down off the top of the structure. And then by the time, you know you're 20 feet from the boat, you know.
Steven:
Mm.
Speaker 7
You've covered that whole that whole drop and then, you know, a little bit of the flat. When you get tired, how many times?
Speaker 2
Mm.
Speaker 7
Especially this fall that this would come out of the mud, that you would have no idea exist, you know 10 feet from the boat they'd be laying on the bottom. Just see them sky straight up and that's one thing like when I'm running a spot, especially on Eagle. I'm trying to stay off the structure by at least 20 feet 'cause there's a lot of times them fish are. They're not always all sitting on the rocks. They're sitting on that on that mud to rock transition. And if you run in the edge.
Steven:
They ain't that girl.
Speaker 7
You're either driving over them fish or they're on the other side of your boat, so it's very, very deep.
Steven:
You say that, but something that that just popped in my head, not trying to cut you off, but something I think. Important where? Let's say we're on a, quote UN quote. We're on a tube. You know the three of us, me and Jared, about and and we're down in. We got a couple in the net or whatever and we're on tubes. Like you're talking about that positioning on the outside edge. Once we break away from structure, it's kind of anybody's guess where those suspend. It's so important to have a follow up bait. You know, 'cause say let's let's ignore.
Speaker 7
A lot of these fish that I. Caught this year, I mean. A lot of the structure, I mean the boats in 2223 feet where the mud is, you know you got 20 feet to where the rock starts and then it's climbing up, you know, flattening up and then eventually hitting the pinnacle of the shore, right.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
And I don't know how many times I saw, you know, the fish. The bait 558 feet below the surface, and that fish sky, you know, laying flat on bottom in 2223 feet of water. And that fish sky straight up and eat the BA.
Speaker 5
Right at your.
Speaker 7
Fault it at the boat. It's. People don't realize when a fish really wants to. Debate like how far they will really actually come.
Steven:
It I think with scope I've mentioned before in the podcast, but with scope like hearing people talk about, he came straight off the bottom like you see people have seen him come vertical. You've watched that on live sketches like a lightning bolt in reverse. It's like lightning.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven:
You can't tell it's a. There's just a streak and he's on. You know, when they when they want it, they want it. The rest of the time we're out there washing baits, praying we can get one in A8.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Steven:
You know, with with these you know these. Jerk. Or the jerk mate style tube style baits. Things of that nature. Seen a couple things floating around. Reminded me I had a client on the boat yesterday that brought one that reminded me of actually like a swimming Joe, where even? Of. Old stuff's coming back. Where it's like just baits that are falling. You know, do you think Danny just has sheer curiosity? Do you think it's the tube like the profile of that or is just the action because it just we weren't doing it for so many years and now it's been 5-6 years and this is so good.
Speaker 7
I think that, you know, like there's in my. In my opinion, there's two ways Bates move that generate. Bite, you know. Trigger that instinctual response 1 you have the side to side, so like when they're following that you. A National Geographic you watch any show you know out there. A predator follows a bait, and then a minute that bait turns sideways.
Steven:
It's all J watches. All day.
Speaker 7
Do they? They eat it right?
Steven:
You go, no.
Speaker 7
So that. 'S A trigger and then you have a. Fall or an up motion that is also a trigger anyway that they can create an angle to eat that bait.
Steven:
Thank you.
Speaker 7
Like that too, because it falls head first so fast that gives them the opportunity to crush that. By the head. If not swimming straight away from them, right? So. I always keep that in mind when I'm working baits. You know, other than you know. You like up on Eagle or any lake in. Yeah, you catch some fish that eat Bucktails out on the cast, but they follow a bucktail to the boat. Do they grab it on the? Why do they grab it on the turn? The bait finally turned sideways to them.
Steven:
Richard. Yeah, you're.
Speaker 6
You know what I did?
Steven:
You're preaching the truth because if you think about, you're talking about the motion debates.
Speaker 6
Yep.
Steven:
If your conception, if you're conceptualizing baits, I'm looking here at the walls of the bait cave. You got dive and rice. They go up, they come down. Well, really good tightener really good. Silic will dive and rise, but it'll come up at weird angles, right?
Speaker 7
Yep.
Steven:
We look at Twitch baits, Slammer Crane, you know all those baits. Well, really good ones. When you twitch them, they come up at angle and what I'm getting as you continue down the line alien eel for a ribbait it's going to fall for a weird angle. A tube crack and burp. Tube. They're when you hump them up, they. They do a weird angle, which is the illusion of a directional change is what I've always thought is that.
Speaker 7
Exactly.
Steven:
That predator thinks it's about to get away. Therefore I must. Now and and it's to me. I hear reaction strike. I don't I. It's it's. I'm not concerned about the verbage, but it is getting them to pull the trigger. Getting them, I guess to react, but it's going OK now's your chance. Now's your chance. Now is your chance and the more chances you present them.
Speaker 7
Any more time and the more times you can get your bait to do that on a cast, the more bites you're gonna get.
Steven:
Yeah. Which is must.
Speaker 7
And that.
Steven:
I was gonna say before, before you were on, I was talking to Jay about trolling, right? Which is I want the shortest lines possible at my target depth when trolling, which allows me more control of the bait to create more moments.
Speaker 7
Yep, exactly.
Steven:
And I think, and I think me and you, I obviously spent enough time talking and ************ on the thing that I believe you and I approach it the same way, which I don't care what the bait is, does it? Many moments does it create. I don't care what the paint job is. I don't care if it's pretty. I don't care if it creates that.
Jay:
Free mode.
Steven:
Fleeing. Yeah, whatever. The evasive thing in the wounded thing and just presenting itself where it's like. And again, Danny said, here's the head of the. It's all, I don't know. I mean, I would say of. I'm guessing this is not something keeping. It would be. I probably should saying that saying it out loud, be interesting to add to like my notes, headshots verse. Grabbing it from behind.
Speaker 7
On a tube.
Steven:
On any day. Like if you look.
Speaker 7
Well, yeah. I mean rubber, rubber style. I mean it's it's not nice 9010, right?
Steven:
It's all headshots. 9010. But like trolling here, here the last few days I could take the back hooks off. And only need 1 hook. Forget about it. I feel, and I feel that way, like whether it be cracking or Danny's tube or whatever. I honest to God, I think if I fish tubes with one hook. I think I might miss one or two fish a year.
Speaker 7
Yeah, well, and so here's one thing I wanted to kind of touch on like as a as an angler, you know, I see guys and I'm trying like when I'm on the water, I'm always trying to teach people to, you know, work abate properly. You can grab any bait and and work on it and RIP on it and. You know you're going. Catch some. Eventually, and you're going to get some success. But like when you're throwing those baits and when you're ripping a bait, if it's not. You're not getting any sideways motion to that base.
Steven:
Mm.
Speaker 7
Try your change your presentation up in the in the way of which you're ripping the bait. You know, maybe not such a hard RIP. A little bit shorter, quicker RIP.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
Maybe a softer RIP and give that bait slack in order.
Steven:
Slack. That's it.
Speaker 7
To let that bait work and you're going to generate a lot more bite when you can get that B. To move sideways, it doesn't have to move sideways every Rep. But you know 2-3 times within a cat. So if you can get it to do. Odd side and turn sideways or up or down. It's going to generate more bytes than if you were just, you know, you know, ripping a.
Steven:
Straight ahead.
Speaker 6
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 7
RIP RIP real RIP rail, RIP rail and not giving that be any part or any slack in which to get that bait to turn sideways. You're just not going. Generate as many bites.
Steven:
You know.
Speaker 7
That's just plain and simple.
Steven:
I I was actually literally yesterday had the same conversation, right Guy. And we were kind of talking about some of these same things working on some pull pause baits and. I told. And it's no knock because you'll see like videos and things of this nature. You know here it. It's late season Minnesota and and these guys are just casting a blast and pounders, right? A pounder. You know, you really have to hog on that bait, or you're gonna be stuck on something, right? And there's a time and a place for that. This just this Minnesota heave ho, right? That can have its time and place, but I find, like pretty much all baits the more finesse and I think the trick for from Twitch baits to rubber baits to any of. Of them is is how to get the action out of. Like you're saying, Danny, with the slightest slightest amount of slack created, that's what I like. When you pick it. Danny. Say you pick up a new bait, right? Never seen XY and Z bait right. Like what are you looking? Because like for me, I'm typically going. OK, what is this doing with my typical, say, crankbait motion or my jerk bait motion? Because you have that feel for this, that tiniest modicum, that tiny attention to detail. Black. Is that like like, where's your head at when you're looking at something?
Speaker 7
Well, I mean. Obviously I've I watched it and I first I got to throw it and I first I tried working. As hard as. I can work it and see what the date right?
Steven:
I'm just sending you my stuff from now if it's. The Danny test, right?
Speaker 7
And then and then. A lot of times it working a bit hard is actually you're working against yourself like for one instance. I'm going to use. You know, your Titan. You worked that day hard. You're working against yourself. You know, three to four inch. Little little twitches. You know what, I. And then, you know, maybe a foot longer every once in a while to get that bait to do what you wanted to do, to do the actual side to side, you know? It to do erratic stuff. The harder you work it, you're actually hurting yourself so. Before you pick up a bait and start. It you know. Take a few minutes and throw or you can actually see the bait and figure out what the best way to work that bait is. Know what I? Like I see it all the. Like just because you're ripping on a bait really hard and you're working really hard.
Steven:
Look like ****.
Speaker 7
Doesn't mean you're working the bait, right?
Jay:
Sure. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 7
You know.
Jay:
No.
Steven:
No, what? What is the date?
Speaker 7
You know, so people have the conception where they think the harder they reel on a buck tail and the harder they jerk on a beat, it's going to generate more bites. Not always the case, and most times it's not the case.
Speaker 5
Have you?
Steven:
Have you noticed the theme between our opposing baits, Danny? That I'm just really lazy.
Speaker 7
I've noticed that. I noticed that I wanted. I want to create a bait that I literally can. Eat a twizzler with one hand and jerk and reel it in with the other.
Speaker 5
You know.
Speaker 7
That season falls. Or is it a *****?
Steven:
Listen, can I can. Can I catch 1 sitting down? You know it's. It's like it's funny. 'cause, you're you know, you're definitely going for a dip. For me, it's like how lazy can't like with the Titan. I'm getting a super erratic action without having to work hard for it, you know. The crack and same. Super erratic action having to work hard for it and. You know, Danny's Dan's gonna put a cinder block with a bulldog tail on there and call it good someday something.
Speaker 7
And a lot of it is a lot of it is just like, you know it. The Eagle Lake fits are just different.
Steven:
Percent. Yeah, it's and fish.
Speaker 7
They're just a different breed of muskie and I, I mean, I wish I would probably have a little a lot different. You know outlook on market, you know some other areas are different. I just unfortunately I don't have time and you know, I do get that little glimpse on, especially in the woods there. Know a couple 2-3 days a. And it opens my eyes. It really does, and I learn a lot of stuff from fish and other bodies of water. Just I make my living on Eagle and to be honest. Get it? Hard to want to lose it with the caliber.
Steven:
Hard to go anywhere else.
Speaker 7
Fish that live on. Lake yeah.
Steven:
You're in the Super Bowl every day, baby. That's the thing, which is I'm just, you know, just teasing, not knocking. But, you know, that's the thing. If sometimes there's a time and place for all of it. I love what you said, though, about the importance of, of looking at. Because you know pre Internet which is seems crazy to some but not that that far off for me and where there wasn't a place where you could go to say like you know Jay shorts or Danny does stuff for savage. I'm always doing the videos for musky sh. Here's the basics of how to work the bait, where you kind of had to come up with it yourself. You got this new bait. You go. Do I do? You know, and that I think that's a lot of the the creative retreats have been lost on. Not, not, not young musky Fisher, but people who knew the sport of like you just had to take a bait and figure out what to do with it. You know there. There's no owners manual with, say, a reef hog. There might be like one paragraph on the back of the box that said, do this, you know, but you had to really observe the bait. That's rare. It's rare.
Jay:
Most of the time it's just it's.
Steven:
Here's the bait.
Jay:
Learn about how great it is. Know. Thing 15 tournaments under its belt, you know, it's just like, well, how?
Speaker 6
Funny.
Steven:
Do you work it where he's saying, Danny?
Speaker 7
It's funny you mentioned. I remember when I was a little shaver. You open up his live. Guess what was floating around in the live all about a dozen refogs so can. Water, yeah.
Jay:
It's classic.
Speaker 7
Nothing better than buying a bait and you gotta let it soak in. The whole show rusted before you can even start to throw it.
Speaker 6
Old school.
Steven:
Yeah, that. They caught fish from it. You know, we've talked about him a bunch, but you know, that's The thing is. Yeah, it's better. Better now that we have the information. But yeah, you know, you just gotta look at look at these things. And you know, I don't. Shut up in a second, but I'll say this we Danny talk about opening opening baits up right, which is what I kind of call it getting that side to side. I don't want anybody to get to miss, you know. The misconception that we're looking for this big left to right glide bait look.
Speaker
You.
Steven:
Know I think it can be subtle at times where yeah, you want it to? Sometimes you want them falling off hard at a hard left and then maybe it goes left twice or whatever, but. You know, it doesn't have to be superbly pronounced. Just can't be this straight. Wet tube sock routine, you know. And one thing that pretty much every bait that I'm throwing, I'm always putting. Not always, but the majority of my baits I'm adding split rings pretty much to everything to help open most things up. Do you? Do you add split rings to pretty much all your baits? Or?
Speaker 7
Like not on my front hook. I will on some of like my back hooks.
Steven:
I meant to the line tie.
Speaker 7
Oh no.
Steven:
Really.
Speaker 7
I I'm generally the opposite. I like going snap straight to the bait. Thought not. I mean, not all the time, but I found work better without a spittering for some reason.
Speaker 6
Uh.
Steven:
What? What? What would any come to mind?
Speaker 7
But. Well for. Like I find with a 2 of you get less foulings by going.
Speaker 6
Mm.
Speaker 7
Straight snap to a tooth for the split ring. OK? And like some some crankbaits like I even have like like I'm just gonna use a grandma for instance. I find I get better action side to side out of a grandma ripping it than if I were to with. Split ring for some reason. Just me though.
Steven:
No, it can be rod angle thing or just how you. You know, but I see for me to get. It's like, you know, I get. Jay just sent me a a a box full of shallow invaders couple weeks ago. Staple bait in my boat, everybody throws a shallow invader. First thing I did big seven on muskie shop Super 7 on on over. Every one of them. Everyone 'cause, it seems to me. With that, maybe I've that softer touch that slacker thing. Thing I get it more pronoun.
Speaker 7
Yeah, you don't work with Facebook very hard either. Need all the help you can get.
Steven:
Yeah, well, when you're laying down, it's hard, right? You really? When you people like Siri, is that a **** seat? That's a pillow. A pedestal bottom on. So I just kind of lay there and just yeah, ask the client drive over, see that waypoint drive to that. I'll be laying up here. But.
Speaker 6
Go back.
Steven:
I get a better. I get a better side to side out of the bait when it's got a split ring. Don't know. Like I said, that's kind of. Like my, my kind of go to there. But it's interesting you see it different, which is just how it there's a million ways to skin the cat and I think that's why Danny, you know like that's why we kind of click because I respect the way he does. He doesn't respect the way I do it, but he's he's on the podcast nonetheless, you know.
Speaker 5
But.
Speaker 7
But to go back to go back to sport rings though, too, what I do what I thought you were talking about with Bates is like I have some gliders that I like to throw. And on the like, like the.
Steven:
Mm.
Speaker 7
Writers with like a curl tail on the back. So like a tap. Like a tap dancer or something like that. I'll actually add a second split ring and then my hook. And for if you do get the fish.
Speaker
Mm.
Speaker 7
On one it gets the hook back just a little bit farther, and two you get. Little bit more motion when they're spinning, right? Right.
Steven:
Yeah.
Speaker 7
I can't little bit more hang a little bit more. You know, you get a little further back if they if they do nip or something like that.
Steven:
Well, which is something you say that like further back shallow invaders. A great way to stop that hook foul, which I do. Split rings and I'll bury the hook in the tail. Right, but the two but having the two split rings? Doesn't tighten it. You know what? I'm. 'Cause, it's not like it's wearing. The tail has the exact same motion because you have the two rings. They're not pulled tight to one each other, but yeah, you can move the hooks back. Jay made some friendship bracelets out of Split split rings one time. It was amazing. It was amazing out the Jay. Could you make a suit of armor for me out of Split?
Speaker 5
Good.
Steven:
Would be like chain mail. What do you think?
Speaker
Right.
Jay:
Make him out of Colorado. Baby.
Steven:
OK, we have a project we need to put together for Elm.
Jay:
Yeah, very good.
Steven:
We just need. To just a suit of armor may have split rings in Colorado Blades.
Speaker 1
Yes.
Jay:
Well, shoot a new video.
Steven:
New video.
Jay:
He loved it. It too.
Steven:
Love to do it folks, but anyway. Well, Danny, you were telling about the woes of the ice fish, and we'll have to check in on that. Checking in, you sent it to me. You and you and Coop got together, right?
Speaker 7
Yeah, we, we talked last night and just kind of shot this **** a little bit. So they'll be. Some talk about, you know, the season, how things wrapped up, some stuff for looking forward to next year, some things that we learned, you know this year that because it's like everybody knew this year was just an add off year now. You know a weird year I think is going to continue to trend that way. Are we going to kind of have a normal year and things kind? Go back. Unfortunately, I think you know personally just the way the world is spinning these days. It's just going to keep continuing to get weirder and weirder and weirder and weirder, and we're going to have to continue. To keep adapting every year to remain successful personally, the way I, the way I look at things, there is no. There is no normal anymore. What's normal, right? So.
Speaker 6
Right.
Speaker 7
So yeah, we talked about, you know, some stuff. We learned this. What we're going to train, you know, use. Keeping our back pocket for next year and we talked a little bit about ice fishing and and that too as well. It was. It was a good talk.
Steven:
Yeah, that'll be on the the Muskie Canada podcast. And I guess they're going to kind of do some monthly stuff like we said. Through this, because there's very few people other than idiots like me still fishing here. But anyway, well, good deal, since it's weird. Danny, one more question and Jay, I'll ask you. Time.
Speaker 6
Sure.
Steven:
You know. Is it aliens over New Jersey right now are just drones.
Jay:
I'm going to say it's not alien, Steve.
Speaker 5
Can I check?
Jay:
Not aliens, yeah.
Steven:
And I'm just curious, just getting your thoughts, seeing how much tinfoil you'd brought out here as of late? Anyway, all right, guys, we're idiots. Guys thanks for. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 7
A thin foil hat right now.
Steven: I sleep an entire tin full outfit. Every night.
Speaker 7
I can see. I can see.
Steven:
Lighter.
Speaker 6
You have a.
Speaker 1
Tighter.
Jay:
Protect yourself lighter.